Why would a loving God allow suffering?

Many people have understandable anguish over the suffering in the world. This is probably the most effective argument of anti-Christians. But it is still invalid.

To an atheist, we could ask: ‘What is your criterion for judging whether something is good or bad? Since you reject God’s transcendent moral standard, all you have are your own feelings. Why should we accept the feelings of an admittedly fallible human being?’

God created a perfect world; the free choice of Adam to turn his back on Him is the ultimate cause of all the suffering. The efficient cause of specific suffering is the free evil choice of moral agents. However, Scriptures are clear that those who suffer the most are not necessarily the most sinful (e.g. John 9:1–3).

Continue reading at creation.com

« Previous Article

Posting Policy

We have no tolerance for comments containing violence, racism, vulgarity, profanity, all caps, or discourteous behavior. Thank you for partnering with us to maintain a courteous and useful public environment where we can engage in reasonable discourse. Read more.

http://msm Judy

I don't think God necessairly allows suffering. We are threatened by other people here on earth. It's other people that do things against us. God doesn't do anything against us or hurt us. We are all put here and allowed to have choices. We can believe in God or not. We can help people or not. We can work hard or not. We can marry and have children or not. We can protect people or hurt people. We can be honest or not. We can be theives not not. Our whole life is choices and we need a good Christian background to make the right choices. Or at least a good Christian background helps. Those that weren't lucky enough to be taken to church or taught about God have no doubt suffered more for their choices. We can't blame God for what suffering we do. It's all either our choices that caused it or the choice of someone else.
Jeff

As usual, you want to praise god for anything postive, but you give him a pass when it is negative.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence comet evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
http://msm Judy

We were all put here to live out lives and make our own choices. God doesn't interfere since he didn't intend to sit here and be a ruler. We are treated fairly by given choices on everything. If we ask for help He may do that. But what he wanted was set out in the Bible but we had a choice as to go by it or not. He knew bad things would happen but wasn't going to interfere. It's like when you have kids. You can do your best with them and hope they grow up the way you want but that may or may not happen. At some point they are grown and you have to let go. It would be ridiculous for a mother or father to be chasing a 40 year old man down the street hollering he forgot his jacket and be home by a certain time. Most people aren't living with their parents at the age anyway. It would be embarrassing for an 18 year old to have to go through that. God is being a good parent. He set out the rules, and once we grew up we had the choice of going by them or not. If we don't he's sad but won't interfere. And when someone shoots someone God can't be blamed since someone made a bad choice. Unfortunately someone will usually suffer when someone makes a bad choice. It's all what people do to each other. Just like you not liking what other people think. It's our choice to think what we want and it's your choice to think what you want. Maybe you shouldn't be so hard on how other people think.
Jeff Dixon

. It would be ridiculous for a mother or father to be chasing a 40 year old man down the street hollering he forgot his jacket and be home by a certain time. Most people aren’t living with their parents at the age anyway. It would be embarrassing for an 18 year old to have to go through that. God is being a good parent

Good parents watch over their children and make sure no harm comes to them. You indicate that God allows grown-ups to make their own decisions. Then why does he allow children to be raped, murdered, get cancer or experience any of the harsh realities of the world. They are not grown-up and capable of making their own decisions.

When God killed everyone in world wide flood, was he abiding by his own rules against killing? Why did he interfere then and not now? When he stopped the sun (which actually is not how the sun works in relationship to the earth), why was it ok for him to interfere then?

I am hard on how people think because it impacts the society and the world we live in. When people rely on ancient tribal myths as the basis for living their lives, it retards the advancement of society. i want something better for my children.
http://msm Judy

Everyone wants better things for their children. But again these children are given choices by their parents. God wasn't going to interfere and he hasn't. However we were given rules and like parents do with children who misbehave at some point we will be punished. The parents who didn't watch over their children enough where the children came to harm wasn't God's fault. It was the parents not taking care of their children. In regards to the big flood, all the people were warned to either change their ways or be punished. They didn't listen like disobedient children and suffered for it. Since God made us I think He has the right to punish us. Bad people have the biggest impact on society. They rob, kill, rape and whatever else they want to do. We try and punish them to keep it from happening again. It doesn't always work but we try. God tried to start over and see if he could 'salvage' good and have a new society where there wasn't the rampant bad going on. But, no matter how good things seem to turn out you will find a 'bad' apple in every bunch. And the bad spreads like a cancer. So, it's fighting for the good. At some point God will return but we'll have warning. The warnings will be for those bad apples to change their ways. IF they don't then they will be punished. I guess that's like telling our children you have to the count of three to stop doing something or they get time out or whatever. They are warned the first time but not usually a second or third time. According to the Bible there will be more than one warning. I think there is three. That's two more warnings than my kids had to stop doing something.
- Jeff Dixon
  
  Well, not everyone in the world was warned. Only those in the Middle East.
  
  And you glossed over my point about children. it is not just that bad people do things to them, bad things like cancer also kills them. god says he loves children yet he is perfectly willing to let a 2 year old die of cancer.
  
  God interfered all the time in the past. He sent bears to kill children for the terrible sin of taunting a bald man. i am sure that response was perfectly justified.
  
  So, god can do anything he wants to us since he created us? We treat lab animals with more respect than that. But that is not surprising. God also allows slavery which we all know is wrong.
  
  Good parents teach by example. God gives laws and then turns arounds and violates them. If killing is wrong, then it is wrong for god to kill. In fact it is worse, because he is supposedly without blemesh. You would have no respect for parents who say dont lie, but lie themselves or steal or cheat on their spouse. Character counts, and god shows he is a hypocrite.
  - http://msm Judy
    
    Not intending to 'gloss' over anything. Most things scientists are finding out and what I believe is that all of us are prone to diesase. Another reason we're not perfect. Our genes and DNA tells what illness we may get. If our parents had cancer chances are we will have it at some point too. God didn't send the illness it's our genes changing through the centuries. Your children carry DNA close to yours. But there will be one tiny strand making their DNA just enough different to make them an individual apart from you. God didn't allow slavery, people decided they wanted it and even though it was wrong they did it anyway. Bears aren't sent to kill children. Where are their parents who are supposed to be watching them and keeping them safe? I can't believe anyone would taunt a bald man. Heck from what I see they are considered more intellegent by some. Anyone taunting or bullying is doing wrong. Unfortunately it's their choice to do so. I blame a lot of parents for not teaching children and everyone is different and to just accept people as they are. God is the only one without sin. We were only made in His image but not his perfection of heart or soul. The world is crazy because parents no longer teach their children. Society has made it where both parents usually have to work to have a house and food. The kids are taught less regarding morals or caring of other people. You are right about good parents teaching by example. But how many parents have you seen today teaching their kids anything? Or setting an example? I think this is where the world started going wrong again. People didn't take being entrusted with a child seriously and neglected to teach that child everything it needed. They leave it to the schools or babysitters to teach children. It's not the schools job to teach everything. If it were people would just have kids and take them to a school and leave them to be raised. Maybe visit them if they have time. That's sick but how some people think it should be.
    - Jeff Dixon
      
      Of course god allows slavery.
      
      He expressly forbids masterbation, blasphemy and working on the Sabbith, but never says do not own people. He gives rules for owning people.
      
      Ex.21:2-6 If thou buy a Hebrew servant….
      
      Ex.21:7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant….
      
      Ex.21:20-21 If a man smite his servant or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand, he shall be surely punished; notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished, for he is his money.
      
      Ex.21:26-27 And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake.
      
      Here is where he sends bears to kill children
      
      "And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them"
      - http://msm Judy
        
        Ex 21:26-27 ends with 'he shall let hm go free for his eye's sake' . Regarding the rest it's not in my Bible which is the King James version. God had Moses bring the people out of Egypt and bondage. Certain cultures back then were selling members of their families for money. That made them slaves of course. The ones brought out of Egypt were given rules on how he expected them to live by. He knew then slavery would continue once he wasn't there watching them so gave them rules how to treat their slaves. You have to remember all this was back before God had Jesus, His son. Plus the people he was helping were all doing things against what God stood for. Plus they worshiped idols which is a big no no. Things changed after Jesus was born and died. God gave his son for all of us to take away our sins if we accepted Jesus and believed in God. It's like now. You deal with people differently now than say 30 years ago. Besides being younger I think people were nicer or something that made things seem different. Same with the Bible.. It tells what happened before Jesus and then after and what will happen in the future only we aren't told when certain things will happen. It's up to us to watch. I don't think we're supposed to have to stand outside staring at the sky 24/7 but just maybe be aware of things that are totally different than the norm.
      - Jeff Dixon
        
        :The ones brought out of Egypt were given rules on how he expected them to live by. He knew then slavery would continue
        
        once"
        
        Why would he do this? He should also know that people would masterbate and work on the sabbith, but he does not provide rules for doing these things. He said Dont do these things. But he never said that about slavery. He may not have endorsed it, but he condoned it, and that is the same thing.
Bill Keen

And, of course, all of the views expressed above are based on the 'church taught' lies that are the product of the Roman Catholic Church (RCC)!

The Father, JHVH, or "GOD" as most 'call' Him, did NOT make a perfect world! JHVH created a 'Test Bed' for mankind. The purpose of 'man' is to become a Friend / Confidant of the Almighty JHVH. JHVH deliberately put Lucifer in charge of the earth AFTER Lucifer had rebelled against Him.

The briars & brambles of the world are only ONE threat that we must overcome.

The secret to living a really GOOD LIFE is clearly stated in the Holy Bible IF you can overcome the lies you were taught as a child by your PARENTS and the Preacher.

Revelation 21:8 & 27 and 22:15 all tell you that NO liars can even enter the gates of Heaven! Did your Mommy & Daddy tell you that there is a Santa Clause? How about the Easter worship service for SEX? Yep! The Goddess Ishtar with the fertility symbols of the egg and the rabbits.

These are just SOME of the lies that parents have TAUGHT their kids and ALL are the direct result of the Roman Catholic Church creation of Frauds to induce the pagans into joining the COMMERCIAL/POLITICAL organization known as the Roman Catholic Church! Of course, the 'Protestant' 'religions' are simply following in the same dirty footsteps as those they supposedly 'protest'.

What is a "Christian"? Where do you find that definition?

I'll bet that neither your 'pastor', 'preacher' nor 'priest' will tell you if they even know. Look in Mark 16: 17-18. There you will find the "signs" that will show the true "Christian". The 2 verses immediately before these – 15-16 – tell you how to achieve Salvation.

BUT – you will have to re-learn the Bible to know what it really says.

Water baptism was ONLY for the Blood-Sacrificing Jews! The dirty water that John used was to wash off the blood covering to show that there was a New Way at hand. The baptism required of you is to accept the direction of the Holy Spirit in all that you do! Baptism means immersion – NOT dipping in dirty water. If you are standing in the water it HAS to be dirty!

The Gospel that you must know (before you can TEACH it of course) is found in the parables. These are not written in the books of Matthew and John as they LIVED these every moment of every day.

John was on the Isle of Patmos BECAUSE they could NOT kill him! He wouldn't fight them so they were left with the only way to stop his PROVING the TRUTH was by isolating him on the island.

bkeen4u@sbcglobal.net
- http://msm Judy
  
  I consider my self a Christian but I'm not Catholic. Mark says you are to go out and tell about Christ. If you believe and are baptised you are 'saved'. Anyone who doesn't believe is punished. Fairly simple. I was taught that Christmas was all about Jesus birthday celebrating his birth. Easter was the rising of Jesus after he died. My Mommy and Daddy only taught what the Bible said and not what society said. Revelation 21:7 says those who believe will be His children. Cowards who don't believe or who do evil things and kill and sin sexually or worship idols and lie all go to hell putting it simply. There is more than one reference regarding sins and what will happen. We are human and not considered perfect by God. We can only do our best with the knowledge we are given. That's assuming you believe in the Bible and God of course. I don't consdier the Bible as lies.. It's difficult to understand sometimes but it's not based on lies. Anyone teaching what the Bible says isn't teaching lies. However those that read it sometimes read more into something than is there. Or look at it differently. That may be where the problems come in. You're assuming too much about people without knowing them.
Anni Ann

God did not want evil in the first place. But gave us a free will to choose. He will not go aganst the free will. So if we choose to go our own way with out Him then we suffer. Plus the first sin was "I shall be like the most High God" and when it all goes wrong then we blame God. But even if I walk and talk with God sin is still here and every thing was messed up. We We We brought all this on our selves. God will help you if you ask.

Blessings
- Jeff Dixon
  
  God is by defintion all knowing. He therefore "knew' that evil was going to occur. If he did not want evil in the first place, but "knew' it would happen, then he is responsible. It was his creation and he was fully aware of how it was going to turn out.
  
  If god did not know what was going to happen, then he is not all knowing.
  
  The concept of the biblical god is completely absurd
  - http://msm Judy
    
    OK Jeff, open your mind for a moment. Let's 'assume' that God is all knowing and yet has allowed these things to happen. Let's also assume that He is correct in saying he's making a heaven for those of us that are good. If you were that powerful and could have all that who would you want there in heaven with you? The people who hate you or don't like you? The people who would hurt you or not believe you were worth the paper your birth certficate is written on? Or would you rather share this with those that love you, who would help defend you, and who would say you're a fine person? It doesn't take much of a stretch to know who I'd want with me. How about you? I think God is like that Why make streets of gold and nice big houses for people who want him dead or don't like Him or want to harm Him? I don't consider him that dumb. He does want us to forgive those that hurt us but that's a stretch for some of us since we aren't perfect. He apparently can though once someone says sorry. Do we forgive someone when they hurt us and then say sorry? Even a Christian may not forgive. Then that's our choice and we have to live with it.
    - Jeff Dixon
      
      This is his creation. He could have made it anyway he wanted. But his choice was to be confusing and to allow people to burn forever in a hell that he also created. Very loving and compassonate. He allowed Satan to be in heaven, although he had to "know" that Satan would rebel against him as well. Why not wait to see who rebels against him after they are actually in heaven?
      - http://msm Judy
        
        I'm thinking that maybe God knew one of his disiciples was going to go against him but maybe wasnt' sure which one. It's possible to know the general things that will happen without knowing all the details. He knows there are a certain number of us that will not believe or want to believe or that will sin. He may not kow our names as to who. He finds out here so when anyone goes to heaven there won't be murderers, theives and liers to put up with. We wouldn't have to lock our doors. Children born wouldn't have to face bullies or bad parents. That's why it would be heaven. No one would be sick and this it forever, not a one night stand. Satan was booted out of heaven and sent to earth. That made us facing two different forces. We know what the Bible says about doing the right things but there is Satan trying to get us to do what he'd like done which is bad. I blame him for people who murder since it seems like something he'd like. There is the influnces of both good and evil and we have to make choices. Depending on our choice we end up where we earned passage to. Heaven is all about happiness, no illness, no crime, and everyone getting along. Geez, could you imagine that? I'd sure love my children to have that. Me too of course. No pity here but I'd wish it for you and your children too. I hate wars even though some are necessary and arguments though I believe in defending my self and my family. I am silly enough to wish that for everyone but it's not going to happen since some countries are more interested in war and control than living forever in heaven.
      - joe agnost
        
        Judy wrote: "I’m thinking that maybe God knew one of his disiciples was going to go against him but maybe wasnt’ sure which one."
        
        So he – sorry, He – isn't omniscient then? I could have sworn that theists claims that God knows ~everything~!
        
        Judy cont'd: "Heaven is all about happiness, no illness, no crime, and everyone getting along. Geez, could you imagine that?"
        
        No I can't imagine that… it's absurd.
        
        Satan is just as mythical as god… once you realize that you can get on with living THIS life in the best way possible.
      - Jeff Dixon
        
        Judy says:
        
        I’m thinking that maybe God knew one of his disiciples was going to go against him but maybe wasnt’ sure which one. It’s possible to know the general things that will happen without knowing all the details
        
        That does not fit the standard model of the biblical god who is deemed omnipotent, all knowing and all powerful. It is also an amazing statement from someone who believes in the perfection of god.
        
        Perhaps he does not even know the general things as well as the details. Perhaps he does not really know anything. Perhaps he is just a myth, created by men to try and explain the world. Just perhaps
Kenneth Roberts

Jesus the Lord's son suffered so much on the cross I would not question pain to much . He was a human and felt as we do , He suffered hanging on that cross and died just for one reason to salvage man, to save their very souls , it is not a small item that took place, think about the cat tails striking across His back and the blood pouring and pain He felt, and what suffering and pain we experience could not come close . He made us for His purpose and that was fellowship with God and He felt the need for that so strongly He allowed His Son to go through what had to be a horrible time. When you say the Lord allows suffering and pain , yes He does , but it is to remind us of Calvary and the cross where Jesus died . I know I have experienced pain and I have been in misery but each time it happens I try ti think of my Savior and what he did for all of us.
http://msm Judy

So he – sorry, He – isn’t omniscient then? I could have sworn that theists claims that God knows ~everything~!

Don't you mean Christians? How can an athiest think God knows everything when he doesn't believe in God to start with.

No I can’t imagine that… it’s absurd.

You can't imagine a Dr telling you you're healthy either I guess. News like that would make a lot of people happy.

Satan is just as mythical as god… once you realize that you can get on with living THIS life in the best way possible.

The tooth fairy is mythical too but there aren't books written about her. Odd that God would rate so much. Rather says He must have been here for anyone to have known what He said and wanted.
joe agnost

judy wrote: "Don’t you mean Christians? How can an athiest…"

No, not Christian. Theist. A Theist is someone who believes in god and follows a religion (any religion).

Judy wrote: "You can’t imagine a Dr telling you you’re healthy either I guess."

Why would you guess that? My being healthy is the product of my healthy lifestyle and good genes… and god doesn't follow up my healthy status with promises of everlasting joy and spending eternity with nothing but mindless robots singing the god-song. What happens when I meet one of the girls I've slept with in the past (after properly repenting of course)? Will the girl still hold a grudge? Will she forgive? Forget? How does that work?

And how do my parents meet me in heaven when they're divorced and remarried (after properly repenting of course)? Which spouse do they sleep with in heaven?

It's all so ludicrous when you actually think about it.

Judy cont'd: "News like that would make a lot of people happy."

Well of course it does!! That's how they ~sell~ religion to the masses – false promises (that can't be discovered until you wake up dead and worm food! ;) )

Judy cont'd: "The tooth fairy is mythical too but there aren’t books written about her."

What's your point? (btw – there ~are~ books written about the tooth fairy.)

Judy cont'd: "Odd that God would rate so much. Rather says He must have been here for anyone to have known what He said and wanted"

I really don't know what you're trying to say here. There are loads of religious books written about Thor, Zeus, Allah, Vishnu, Ra…. does that mean that they're all real too?
http://msm Judy

Well, you may believe what you want. I don't begrudge anyone the right of believing what they want. However I fail to understand why you think everyone should think like you. You need to lighten up and know that not everyone thinks the same any more than they look the same. IF everyone looked and thought alike I think it would be a very boring world.
- joe agnost
  
  Judy wrote: "…why you think everyone should think like you."
  
  It's not that I think everyone should think like me, it's that I want everyone to THINK. Too many people think that their faith and lack of doubt is a virtue or something to be admired. I think it's the opposite – it's a disease and a sure path to a stagnant society and an unfulfilled life.
  
  Think about what you believe. Question EVERYTHING (not just science – but questioning science is definitely a good thing.)
  
  I really believe that theists (ALL religionists) are a negative blight on society – and I would like to change that.
  
  Judy wrote: "IF everyone looked and thought alike I think it would be a very boring world."
  
  I find it truly strange that you would say this… because that is exactly what the heaven you imagine must be like.
http://msm Judy

Was in a hurry and didn't pay attention to all your post. I don't see you as a Theist since you talk like God doesn't exist and brush off any reference as Him being a man. A Thieist believes in God and you don't. So, you are like an athiest. You are being a contradiction.
val

Check this out by going to http://thegoodtale.blogspot.com to prove by the word of God what I now tell you is true.

You along with the rest of the world are believing in the wrong God. Satan truly has deceived the whole world.

You will also find on this weblog the reason why God allows suffering.