Bibleless Christianity
by Wes Moore
His words took me by surprise. They were all at once a kind compliment and a stunning rebuke. He walked up to our booth at the conference and said, “Wes, I really enjoyed your session this afternoon. You know, of all the seminars I’ve attended at this conference, you’re the only who actually taught out of the Bible.”
Yes, you read that right. It was a Christian conference in the Midwest. There were probably a thousand people there and a hundred or more breakout sessions over the two day event.
This wasn’t the first time this had happened to me. A few months ago I had a similar situation at another Christian conference. Again, I did several breakouts over the three day event. After my last session, which was the last speaking event of the conference, a man walked up to me and said, “That was the best talk of the entire conference. You actually quoted the Bible.”
A Devastating Trend
Across much of evangelical Christianity in America the Bible has become a secondary or non-existent source of teaching. In many places, it isn’t even referenced at all on Sunday morning. In others, a verse may be quoted to start the message, but then the rest of the time is filled with a solid dose of the pastor’s “wisdom,” either from his vast “experience” or his scholarly “learning” at some quasi-pagan seminary.
Still other churches, who claim to be “Bible-based,” avoid many of the major teachings of Scripture for fear they will offend our oh-so-sensitive culture. They’re playing the marketing game, and the total teachings of Scripture just don’t fill the seats.
And then you have those who take the Bible and distort it to accomplish their own ends, namely, building self-help clinics for personal profit.
Across the nation, the Bible is becoming less and less a part of the life of the Christian church. We are quick to rail against the Catholics, Mormons, or Jehovah’s Witnesses for using another authority for their teaching (that is, a source of teaching other than the Bible itself), but we so conveniently overlook the fact that we do the same every day.
American Christians don’t know the Bible. They know what they’ve heard on Sunday morning for years or what they think the Bible says based on their own reasoning or ideas. But the true teachings of Scripture are far from their minds and lips. Let me give you another example.
A couple of times a year a new book will sweep through the church and create a great stir. Everybody will be talking about it, and many churches will quickly put their congregations through it. “This will revive your church!” they say. “This will revolutionize your ministry!” they proudly claim. But invariably, when I pick up the book myself, I’m often left thinking, “What’s so new and revolutionary about this book? This is taught all over Scripture. Our people should already know this!”
The content of the books we rave about is content we should have learned a long time ago. And not from some new release by Zondervan or Nelson, but from the Bible itself! What we need to revive our churches and revolutionize our ministries is not another book by some clever Christian pundit, but the Word of Almighty God Himself.
One of the Major Problems for the American Church
Our churches are a mess; we’re full of sin, self-centeredness, compromise, and conflict. Most churches are failing, and most of our youth are leaving. We’re in deep trouble to say the least. However, the main cause of our troubles is not the atheists, the ACLU, the Supreme Court, or the administration in Washington (as we so like to believe); the main cause is our shallow knowledge of the Word of God.
As we face our difficulties—like overcoming sin, standing against compromise, and finding victory in conflict—we no longer have the wisdom of God to guide and instruct us. We’re left with our own wisdom, and it always fails us.
But there’s another terrible consequence of marginalizing the Bible in the life and teaching of the church: Over time we become idolaters.
In biblical times, and in fact in many places around the world today, idols were formed by taking something from creation (a tree, a rock, a bar of iron), shaping it into an image, and then ascribing to that image the characteristics of the god desired.
But today, in modern American Christianity, we have put a new twist on creating idols. We take the God of the Bible, the true God, pull Him down from heaven, and remake Him into the god both we and our politically correct culture will accept.
The god of the average American church is not the God of the Bible. This god has an over-inflated and distorted sense of love, does not bring harsh judgments upon sinners, is never offensive to anyone regardless of their teachings or lifestyle, openly accepts sin, and is offended by the idea that he is sovereign over creation. He wants you to have a better marriage, a better job, a bigger car, and above all, he wants you to think he’s cool.
But this isn’t the God of Scripture. He is a God of wrath as well as love (Romans 1:18), a God who promises terrible and painful judgment for those outside of Christ (Romans 2:5-9), a God who offends people with His righteous rebukes (Matthew 15:12-16), and a God who rules over every event, every nation, every demon, and every human being with absolute and total control (Ephesians 1:11, Daniel 2:21). Oh, yes, and the God of the Bible doesn’t care if you think He’s cool or not (Deuteronomy 10:17).
A great number of Christians in America worship an idol every Sunday, and they don’t even know it. How about you?
The Bible is Integral to God’s Work
A detailed, thorough, ever-increasing knowledge of the Word of God is integral to God’s purpose and will for His people. Here are a few examples of the Word’s role.
1. It is His instrument for bringing us to maturity.
Jesus asks the Father in John 17:17 to “sanctify [set apart; make holy] them through the truth; your word is truth.” In fact, in the Great Commission He commands His disciples to teach new believers to “obey everything” He has commanded (Matthew 28:20). [1] Where do we find “everything” He has commanded? The Bible. Finally, Paul writes that gifts (apostles, prophets, pastors and teachers) were given to the church to build us up “until we all…become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.” Exactly what are they to use to do that? The truth, God’s Word. Not their own wisdom.
2. It is Christ’s instrument for purifying His bride.
Paul, while teaching about marriage, says that Jesus’ love for the church means He not only sacrificed Himself for her, but also now uses His Word to prepare her for the eternal state. He writes, “Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless” (Ephesians 5:25-27). Pastors and Bible teachers take note of this.
3. It protects His people from heretics who will mislead and abuse them.
One of the goals of Christ (and Paul) in bringing us to maturity is to protect us from the schemes of charlatans who take the form of “godly” men but are actually demonically controlled and motivated by personal gain at all costs. “Then we will no longer be infants,” Paul concludes, “tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming” (Ephesians 4:14).
Many of our people today are suffering under such teachers. Whether it’s the slew of preachers who tell our people God doesn’t want them to suffer but have great wealth and worldly happiness, or those who have turned the true God into some form of self-help idol, false teachers and heretics abound in America.
The Word of God— it’s diligent study and faithful, fearless proclamation—is God’s primary instrument for revealing these people for what they are, helping us to avoid their destructive plans, and giving us the knowledge to call them out for their sin.
What happens in the end?
In the end, a Bible-less Christianity is apostate Christianity. It ends in not only false teachings of all varieties, but also in the manipulation and abuse of countless hoards of God’s people. However, all is not lost. The Bible is still there, on our night stands, coffee tables, and pew racks. You do not have to be the victim of a Bible-less Christianity; you can be delivered by God’s grace, and help to deliver others by studying His Word consistently and passionately.
Don’t wait until Sunday. Start today.
Notes:
[1] By this statement you can also see that the task of the Great Commission is not to get people to make decisions and then move on to the next potential convert. If the person we supposedly “convert” does not continue to follow Christ, attempting to learn and obey all He commanded in the New Testament, that person is not saved and is not a disciple. Furthermore, since it is true that faith and trust in the Word of God are essential to true conversion, let us stop making new “disciples” who do not believe the Word of God.
Recommended further reading:
Wes Moore: Forcefully Advancing
Tim Challies: The Discipline of Spiritual Discernment
Kevin Vanhoozer (Ed.): Everyday Theology
I am not surprised reading this article. I am surprised because "protestant churches" were founded by men solely on the Bible and "sola fide".
One of the many reasons why I believe in my Catholic Faith is that our Sweet Lord Jesus Christ – GOD – founded ONLY ONE CHURCH as Biblical, Traditional and Sacramental. The Catholic Church has a UNITY that we'll never find in any of the 32,000 plus "protestant, biblical and evangelical churches".
Robert
-Robert DeLeonThe tradegy of Denominationalism is only amplified by the erroneous teachings of all organizations including the Catholic church, for adding doctrines simply because of some tradition which cannot have the force of the Word of God, The Holy Bible. We all should still hope for the forgiveness of God for our misguided efforts and cling to the Jesus who said " Come unto Me.." There are many good things in the Catholic church as there are in Bible based Protestant churches. Perhaps, the prayer of Jesus in John 17 will be fulfilled some day.. No where does the New Testament teach that Mary should be worshipped as God. Respected, yes. Worshipped and prayed to, NO !
-RussRuss:
To worship Mary? That's one of the many, many lies that "protestant churches" spread all over. We ONLY WORSHIP TO GOD. We respect, love and admire Jesus Christ's Mother but never worship to her. Take such a lie off of your mind.
Robert.
-Robert DeLeonBut you do acknowledge Mary as being the mother of God.
Mary gave birth to Jesus, the Christ, not God. Although God became man as the Son, he never spoke as the Father, but as the Son. Scripture tells us that Jesus is the Word and without him nothing that was made would have been made. But we know from scripture that not only did God come into the world as the Son, but that flesh cannot give birth to spirit, but flesh. Mary therefore is not the mother of God.
But does a Catholic, according to the rosary, ask Mary to pray for sinners. Mary is like all flesh. She, too needed a Savior. The immaculate conception is biblically ignorant doctrine. Christ did not inherit any sin that Mary committed. That is not what the Bible refers when it says the sins of the father fall upon the son. Notice it did not say mother to son. What it means is that the son sees the actions of the father and inclined to follow the actions of his father. If his father beat his wife, chances are the son, too will beat his wife.
-DonWow, Don, so you take exception to St. Elizabeth when she, "FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT" said, "But who am I that the MOTHER OF MY LORD should come to me?"
Don, the earlier assessment of the morasse of PROTEST-ant theologIES (that's a plural, in case you missed it) is actually short of the mark. The true number now is well over 38,000 PROTEST-ant sects, and the confusion of relying ONLY upon the Bible, which The Catholic Church gave you in the first place, is at the root of the PRIDE of the PROTEST-and sects. And Pride goeth before the fall. And what a terrible price that fall will be, so saith Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
You people can't even comprehend John 6, no matter that Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ said over 15 TIMES that unless you eat His Body and drink His Blood THERE IS NO LIFE IN YOU. The jews said, "This saying is hard, who can follow it?" St. Peter, the first Pope, said, "Lord, you have the words of eternal life. To whom else shall we go?"
See the difference between Almighty Pride and humility? St. Peter didn't understand it, either, but he believed Christ, Who showed them all the Truth of the Eucharist at the Last Supper, appeared after His Resurrection on the road to 2 disciples whose hearts "burned" as He spoke and Who revealed Himself to them at the breaking of the bread, promptly disappearing.
And then you ignore the Bible when St. Paul states:
10:16 The chalice of benediction which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? And the bread which we break, is it not the partaking of the body of the Lord?
Which we bless. . .Here the apostle puts them in mind of their partaking of the body and blood of Christ in the sacred mysteries, and becoming thereby one mystical body with Christ. rom whence he infers, ver. 21, that they who are made partakers with Christ, by the eucharistic sacrifice and sacrament, must not be made partakers with devils by eating of the meats sacrificed to them.
10:17 For we, being many, are one bread, one body: all that partake of one bread.
One bread. . .or, as it may be rendered, agreeably both to the Latin and Greek, because the bread is one, all we, being many, are one body, who partake of that one bread. For it is by our ommunicating with Christ, and with one another, in this blessed sacrament, that we are formed into one mystical body; and made, as it were, one bread, compounded of many grains of corn, losely united together.
Can't you people read, who depend upon the Bible solely for your theological heresies and divide yourselves up into pieces at the behest of Satan, the divider and conqueror, so that you never avail yourselves of the Christ-instituted Sacraments without which there is NO SALVATION?
-peter1589peter 1589:
God says we are saved by Grace, NOT sacraments! You are therefore, believing a lie.
"For by Grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God– not because of works, lest any man should boast." Eph. 2:8 & 9.
-MargieBoth Mary and her son Jesus were but humans. Mary was one of the top saintly woman chosen by God to be the mother of Christ Jesus (peace be upon him). They both used to eat earthly food and walked in the markets like other humans. Mary was also the daughter of Hannah (Mary's mother). Hannah's husband name was Imran who was the father of Mary. They are both descendents of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. God is only ONE. God does not change HIMSELF as human because HE is God, above human gender. God created both male and female in humans (Adam and his wife Eve). We humans are all "Children of Adam (and Eve)". No one child or son or daughter or wife or husband of God. Because God is only ONE. Man-god concept was inducted by Paul at connivance of his Hinduistic, Budhhuistic and Paganistic follwers. Man-god or son of God or Jesus- as-god are the myths and FALSE concepts, these were never given by Jesus (pbuh) nor by his mother Mary, nor by the Disciples (of Jesus, pbuh). God is only ONE, not two, not three, not three-in-one, not four or more — God is Not more than ONE, that's it.
Paul as a Jew was already used to be believer of son of God concept from Judaism because the sect he belonged to, used to erroneously believe Prophet Uzayr (Ezra) to be son of God — an erroneous belief, which neither Prophet Uzayr (Ezra) nor any other Israelite Prophets gave to their people. Asection or division of Judaism took Prophet Uzayr (Ezra) to be son of God, much after death of Prophet Uzayr (Ezra), just like people of old used to create men-gods and goddesses for themselves – a false belief.
Fact: Mary was a Saintly Woman only and was chosen as the best of all women to be mother of Man-Jesus – the chosen Messenger and Prophet of God — just like God previously chose Moses, Abraham, Noah and Adam. They were all Messengers and Prophets of God, whereas Prophet Adam (peace be upon him) was the FiRST PROPHET on God's earth. Prophet Adam (pbuh) was not a Messenger.
-ZackSee your saying exactly what the author was trying to get across. You chose the Catholic Church and refused all others without ever reading or studying anything but the Catholic bible which has been modified by men many times over time to make it more politically correct in society. There are many bible versions, but the original protestant churches were founded on the Geneva and King James bibles that have not been changed by man over the years. Yes there is a new King James version and it was reworded to suit the translators and bail out Nelson publishing at the time. Jesus only founded one church that follows his word not the word of Popes,Pastors, Ministers and councils etc… I guess thats just to hard to understand and why the Catholic Churches sinners in high positions have caused people to turn away. No one speaks for God or Jesus if you dont believe that you have no hope of ever obtaining eternal salvation!
-DeanDean:
When Luther translated the Bible from Greek to German language he could not find some words in German language. So, he just delete it. Furthermore, he added some texts, words and sentences that are not biblical. King James version is a "Protestant" point of view, but not the Truth.
If you dare – DO NOT BE AFRAID – read Scott Hanh's book "Rome Sweet Home" and Dave Armstrong's book "A Biblical defense of Catholicism". Mr Hanhn and Mr. Armstrong are just two out of many former protestants coming back home.
Nevertheless, Catholicism is waiting for a re-unification of all Christian Churches just as our Dear Lord commanded.
Robert
-Robert DeLeonThe time will come when the churches will reunite with the Catholic. How is it I say this. I have posted this before.
Who is the harlot sitting upon the beast and who are are the daughters. The harlot is a false regigious system. It is not just any false religious system, but a system thata bases its belief on the Gospel. It other words it is the backslidden church.
-DonBackslidden? The Catholic Church is BACKSLIDDEN???!?!? Why is it that She alone teaches all that which has been taught since Christ's appearance on earth, and She ALONE REMAINS STANDING INVIOLATE AS THE ONLY INSTITUTION WHICH REMAINS STANDING AFTER 2,000 YEARS?????
Try and kill Her, Don, and see where you end up in eternity, along with the rest of the PROTEST-ants, the communists (Stalin, "How many divisions does the Pope have?" Laughing his head off then, and suffering the terrors of Hell now that he knows exactly how many legions the Pope has at his disposal against all heresies), the Huns, the homosexuals, the Aryans, the … gosh the list is too exhaustive to even begin to list, but YOU THINK YOU CAN DESTROY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH? Count yourself among all those "I know it alls" who thought like you and ended up in Hell.
-peter1589Really not sure why protestants would be grouped with some mentioned here.
-What's your deapeter1589
Try and kill her. What are you talking about. Nobidy said anything about an institution. That, my friend is quite the opposite. It is not man that do away with Babylon, but the Lord God.
You have some conception that the Catholic church began with Christ was on earth. That is not scriptural. Neither is Peter ever having been a pope. The fact of the matter is that Peter was an Apostle to bring the truth to the Jews. Paul on the otherhand was sent unto the Gentiles. This era was the fulfillment of the Prophet Joel.
Do not use the term HELL, my friend. Unless you know in truth what hell is. It is not a firey place where the unsaved are tormented forever. It is the grave. You take symbolism and symbolic scripture and run away with it to present a case. God takes vengence on the day of judgment. Those judged according to the law are sentenced to death. Christ spoke of a second death. It should not be mistaken with the first death. Here's how t goes. First death: the body, second death: the spirit. Can't be any plainer than that. You present God as some vindictive God, but he is more merciful than that.
God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. God cannot tolerate continued rebelliousness. Rebellion leads to death.
Your pope does have power. But it is not power given from above, but from below. Know your history that you might confront the guilt and change course. You surely cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven with the attitude that you have.
You contine to use hell as if it were another tool or instrument of the church to torture and bring death to those who choose being a slave to the truth rather than a slave to the church.
My friend, my heart does ache that you have not the eyes to see nor the ears to hear. You call me a protestant, but I am neither a Catholic nor a Protestant. Does a man have to be one or the other to believe. You, my friend are indeed a Christian, but lack the wisdom to see the deception. You therefore are not a believer. Least the truth be a hot iron of the fire and sear you to your very soul and spirit.
You do not know that you came from heaven. Given to the body while in the womb. That the body is the instrument with salvation is made and given. God could not give any man salvation least he made flesh. We who were in heaven wirnessed the rebellion of the fallen ones. Do you not know that we war not against flesh, but spiritual wickedness in high places. Do you not know the true ruler of this world. That is is known by many names. He is the counterfeit christ. He, who tried to corrrupt the bloodline that the promise of God might not be fulfilled. That is why the fallen ones cohabitated with the daughters of men.
Yes, my friend. When death comes, my body will indeed see hell. Just as your body will also. But the spirit returns to God, for he have it to the body that salvation might be received. However, it is up to each and every one of us rather we want his salvation or not.
Does not scripure command that if a man desire to be a leader that he must be married, of one wife. That he is the head of his household. For if he cannot rule over his own household, he cannot rule over the body of the church.
The sins of the church are many. Repentence is not forthcoming. All have fallen away. Yes, that includes the Catholic church as well as Protestant. That is the reason the church is not mentioned in Revelation, except of the letters to the seven churches. The churches that did exist in the days Revelation was written by John as given him by Christ.
-Donpeter 1589,
The Catholic Religion has been destroyed from the beginning. It destroyed itself by its false doctrines. It has been astray since it first began, holding the FORM of Religion but denying its Power. (God). You cannot have a faithful church that holds on to false doctrine for hundreds of years.
It is "standing" on sinking sand and only by appearances. Islam is still "standing" too, as are hundreds of other Religions. It doesn't mean a thing. Numbers do not equal faithfulness, otherwise how do you explain the fact that God says many are called, but few are chosen?
You're taught the things that you say but do consider what Christians are saying.. and study the Bible and hold fast to only the truth.
"Let love be genuine; hate what is evil, hold fast to what is good; love one another with brotherly affection; outdo one another in showing honor. Never flag in zeal, be aglow with the Spirit, serve the Lord." Romans 12:9-11.
-MargieGood afternoon Mr. DeLeon: I see in one of your post that you do not believe the KJV to be an accurate translation of God's word.
You seem to be well versed in the Catholic religion, and with your permission, I would like to ask you a couple of questions, so I can tell what you believe.
1. I see you do not accept the KJV – do you all have a book that you consider to be the authority for you or a book you consider to be the word of God
2. How do you believe a person can be saved (born again) and know he/she is going to Heaven
I ask these questions because it is imperative for a Christian to know how to be saved and know they are saved and to have a guide book to guide them after salvation.
-MGMpeter1589
(Sorrry, could not make a direct reply)
You cannot distinguish between God the Father and God the Son. Jesus never identified himself as the Father, but as the Son. Mary gave birth to flesh, which the Son. She could not have given birth to the Father. What you are taught seems right according to men and it is unfortunate that the truth is perverted so that it sears not the soul, but tickles the ears.
Peter was not the first pope of the church. The church that you hold so endear did not exist for another 200 years. There was no pope, or one above all others. There was one church which followed along the same teachings. There were times though that men entered into and brought into false teachings.
The scriptures do not identify Peter as the Rock, but Christ. The church is founded upon Christ, not Peter.
The wine and the bread are symbolic of Christ's blood and flesh. It it done in rememberance of what Christ accomplished on the cross. It is by means actual blood and flesh. This would violate the scriptures that command that man shall nor consume blood as the pagans did.
There is but one way for you be convinced that the Catholic church is not the true church. It was founded by Constantine. Constantine is accredited with being a believer. but the truth is that he was never a believer in the true gospel. But this isn't what I was going to follow up with.
You suppose that upon death a person goes to heaven, hell or purgatory. Since hell is the grave, we all will go there. There is no scriptural support for a purgatory. Therefore there is one final place, which is heaven. We all go to heaven when death comes. There are no exceptions. Scripture supports this. But whether you or anyone goes to heaven you end up at either the right hand or the left hand of God. Christ spoke of this. Did he not say that the goats are at the left and the saved at the right hand. But judgment has yet to come and cannot come until the end of things. And Christ has returned to establish his earthly kingdom, which is temperal. At the conclusion of the alloted time, Satan will be loosed for a short time, but will be defeated for all time. When this has been acomplished, judgment is rendered. Then a new heaven and a new earth will made. The previous heaven and earth will pass away. Be destroyed for all time.
I don't expect you to believe one iotta of what I said. I anticipate you to contine being deceived and becoming angry with those who oppose the teaching of your church as well as all other churches. If we were arrive at that appointed time of the end, you would stand with the multitude and shout that such who refuse to convert be put to death. You would be as Saul, stood by the tree watching the garments of those stoning Stephen, and agreeing in Stephen's murder.
Do not believe a word I say. But for your salvation, I would suggest you cast aside all that you have been trained up in and examine for yourself what it true and what is false truth.
What church do I belong you might wonder. None is my answer. I was told to get out of Babylon. Who then is Babylon. Is not Babylon also the harlot sitting on the beast of seven heads. And who are the daughters, but those who left the mother. The harlot is the Catholic church and the daughters are every church that came from her. Whether it be Lutheran to Jehovah's Winesses.
-DonDean, I'm sorry but there are Bibles out there that have translated the Bible in ways it shouldn't have been translated, the nib, new American translation and many others and most of the ones coming out now don't show male or female distinction in some verses.
-What's your deaDear Robert, I must reply so as to interject some history. Early "church" history is very revealing in the many types or styles of catholic churches o r groups of believers that existed AD. Go back and check out early church history, it is very revealing. Just this morning i WIKIed nestorian christianty and found all sorts of interesting info . The reason is that I went to an Penn Museum showing of the SILK ROAD,with all kinds of stuff from central asia,mummies ,ect,but most interesting was the various religions that were present in this area. I was quite interested because in the 60s I did a research paper on the Early Church. You will be surprised to find quite a number of catholic groups.Check it out .I stand on the Bible alone ,it was not founded on men and is the source of true Christianity. My best,keith
-Keith CKeith:
If you read the Bible you"ll never find the word "sola". Protestant "reformers" added this word to "fide" in order to SUPPORT their personnel understanding of the Bible.
Maybe you think that the Bible was written and known as today's after Pentecost and handled to every early Cristian people. It was not. Find the time that the Gospel was written. Since the time of Apostles there were many years that the Gospel was not taught but by oral means (that is TRADITION). And yet, after the Gospel was written, few – I repeat, FEW – people had a copy from every Gospel.
We Catholics read and learn from the Bible, "the Word of God". Some "protestant" people believe that we don't. Of course. another "protestant" lie.
Robert
-Robert DeLeonSeveral questions for you Robert:
Celibacy of priests,
the confessional,
praying to Mary,
purgatory,
popes
Where are they in the Bible?
What Book and what Verse?
God's words are the Scriptures.
God's Word is Jesus Christ:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it." John 1:1-5
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth." John 1:14
-victorIt isn't scriptural, therefore cannot be found. Unless scripture has been transformed from pure and of light to corrupt and filled with darkness. Lament when one beholds oneself as having entered into a righeous institution. Vanity and pride shackels a man, who thinking himself free has entered into slavery.
-DonVictor, where is the word Trinity in the bible? What book and what verse?
Just curious.
-Jeff DixonJeff Dixon;
There is no word as trinity within the Bible. If you expect to find the word. But then the word dinosaur cannot be found either, although two were identified in the book of Job. They were called Behemoth and Leviathan.
The Bible does identify the Holy Spirit, the Father and the Son. If you cannot distinguish the difference although all are one, nothing anybody said would suffice you answer.
-DonYou are all arguing over whether the bible refers to something as the standard for accepting it or not. My point is you also accept something the bible does not state.
It is fun to watch you all fight over who is the better and more informed Christian. Please keep it up.
-Jeff DixonMr. DeLeon,
"So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter." 2 Thess. 2:15.
When the Apostle said this, he was referring to those traditions taught BY THEM. Not by Catholicism which came into being hundreds of years later and are AGAINST the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles.
So, it is another Catholic lie to try and present anything other than what the Apostle says!
-MargieDo not too pent up in pride. For one to disregard the history of one's prideful church is not a means to salvation. There is not one church, I repeast, not one church that either teaches the truth or adheres to the commands of Christ. Until you truly understand who the harlot sitting upon the beast is, and the daughters of this harlot, you will not know truth from falacy.
You, my friend are responsible to seek out the truth. Your very life is dependent upon it. Do not readily accept the teachings of others for men appear as light, but are filled with darkness within. Many have the same pride with which you have made known. Whether they be Lutherans, Methodists, Baptists or whatever, too many are filled with pride and would not dare enter into any other church. Are all churches then the Bride.
Do not think Satan foolish and having no knowledge for the word. He knows it cover to cover, backwards and forewards. The only way possible for him to win is to make God out a liar. With that accomplished, God had either to allow all to live, or bring death to all.
If this post should bring you to anger, let that anger be put to positive action least it cause you to sin. Let the spirit that is within you not be completely walled where it can not speak to the flesh. God gave you the spirit even wile you were forming in your mother's womb.
-DonDon:
You meant PROUD instead of pride?
Yes I am proud – and happy – to be a Catholic and I'll always be just because our Dear Lord Jesus Christ is MERCIFUL and He loves me, as same as He loves you..
Robert
-Robert DeLeonPride comes before a fall. It is vanity and separates himself to the true God. Learn the history of your church that you might see into the light. For that which you pride yourself is identified in Revelation. All others are her daughters and they will return to this whore for they, like their mother are spiritual whores. They go whoring, taking on another lover not which they were wedded to.
-DonIf you are the only "true church" why do you pray to Mary and other " saint's"? While Mary was blessed in that she was chosen to give birth to the Lord, she did not remain a virgin all her life. If you want to see it for yourself, in Matthew chp. 13 verses 55 and 56 it mentions the other children Mary and Joseph had. Jesus was the ONLY sinless person who ever lived. He is the ONLY one who died for all. As for prayer, there is ONE Mediator between God and man, the Lord Jesus. We do not need anyone else to pray for us or to hear our sin's. . Mary and "the saint's" are dead.
-MadelineI think you have fallen for the trap of appearances Robert. Consider the history of your church, consider the deliberate hiding of the Word Of God from the common people Jesus loved so dearly. Think about the attempt to assassinate Luther for translating the word into a common language for the masses. Reflect on the inquisition that resulted in the deaths of thousands and the theft of millions in wealth and property. And ponder the claim that Jesus founded the Catholic faith at all. All of the things I listed were the work of your church, how can you defend it? The clearest proof that God is not in dominance in your church is the simple act of confession and penance. Jesus did not tell us to confess to one, for our sins against another. He said " Confess your sins one to another, and pray one for another" this means that we should confess to the person we have sinned against, not some fellow in a booth hidden from view. And the most common penance is to say the 'Hail Mary' prayer, because, as the church tells it, she will intercede for us with Jesus. It is clearly at odds with John 14:6. In truth, there is no unity as you think it in your church, it is only a unity of thought, not truth. Seek; knock; ask; these things were told us by Christ. It was intended that we should do so individually, not as a collective of some group. The Bereans did this and were applauded because they sought the truth of scripture, not the pulpit. I speak as one who lived the Catholic life from baptism through catechism and confirmation onward. I had many times questioned the "Church believes" claims of priests and I found the truth in the very word of God, it is the truth that your church sought to keep hidden behind its wall. Think on these things, question your obedience to the church and how it squares with the actual words of scripture.
-Allen SmithRobert -
Ya, "unity". The pope says evolution is the truth so everybody gets unfied behind it. No thought that yo just threw out Genesis 1-3 and a whole bunch of Jesus' teachings in favor of this Johnny-cum-lately pope.
Oh, ya, not to mention all those priests who spend so much time unifyin' behind the boys in the accolytes file. Now that's really something to close ranks on and get unified about. Man, I'd be ota an outfit like that so fast—-
-Philippians 4:9The only true Church is the Body of the Lord Jesus Christ, not the apostate church in Rome where anti-Christ sits as head of a blasphemous priesthood dominated by sodomites. Christ alone is the true Sheppard, and He leads His Church by the Holy Spirit sanctifying it by His Word. The Roman Catholic Church has rejected or ignored that Word at its will. The two greatest threats to the West are Roman Catholicism and Islam, both of which reject the Bible in favor of their own man centered systems of salvation.
-IthamaarYou probably think that the jews are God's chosen people> Well, that shows that you don't know what the Bible says, so you are in the same boat as the rest of the Judeo-Christians. The jews are not God's chosen people. They are Khazars, Caananites, Edomites. They are a mixed race, and God told Israel to kill them. The jews are a cursed people, and God will send his angels to pluck them out of the wheat field and throw them in the lack of fire.
-TerryTerry, you really don't know you are talking about. Wherever, or whomever you received information has no idea.
The chosen people began with Abraham. Abraham begot Issac and Issac begot Esau and his brother Jacob. God chose Jacob over Esau for reasons you would have to find within the Bible.
Do you agree that the fallen sons were angels. Do you agree that they cohabitated with the daughters of men. Do you believe there were giants in the land as a result. Do you agree that Behemoth and Leviathan as described in Job were dinosaurs. If you've answered no to any of the questions, you have not had your eyes opened. Not that they cannot see, but because the heart is not right before the Lord.
-DonWell said don.
-What's your deaI have known too many people who use this same way of thinking as a reason to hate the jews. Believe me its scary when they start spewing their hate.
-What's your deaThis the United States is in part under God's judgment, because of this. But many other things have been heaped into a pile and God cannot do otherwise but bring forth his anger.
-DonTerry,
I am a Protestant, but apparently you do not understand what is meant by "God's chosen people" If you believe the Bible, then you should believe that the nation of Israel (Jews) are God's chosen people. They were chosen to show Jehovah God to the world and to be the vessel for His law and the people who would give rise to the source of our salvation Jesus Christ.
-WadeThe Jews have not ceased being so. Israel will play a part in the end times. And the man of sin, or the beast that rises from the earth will be a Jew. Or have descended from the Jewish line. But he will be an apostate Jew.
-DonAnti-semite Terry, while you may be partially correct the vast majority of the Jewish population are true descendants of Judah, one of Israel's twelve sons and as such a part of the chosen people.
-KalevTerry,
You need to get yourself a Bible because in it you can read for yourself what God is going to do concerning Israel, and what He has been doing, and in fact you can find out what God's entire plan is for the fulness of time.. it does include the Jews, as He says there is a remnant who will be saved. His promise to Abraham hasn't changed and those Jews who live by their faith, it's reckoned as righteousness. We were grafted into God's Vine (Jesus) because of the rebellion of the Jews, so you should count your blessings! And now~ (read Romans 11), the Jewish people can be grafted back in again!
If you are truly interested in finding God's truth you will seek Him honestly~ don't believe what prejudiced people tell you. God's mercy is for ALL people.
Here is just a tidbit from Romans 11 to prick you with"
"I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin." Rom. 11:1.
-MargieOne other thing, Jesus Christ never founded the Roman Catholic church. The Roman catholic church is heresy and was actually founded by God's enemies the Jews. Jesus Christ only came for the lost sheep of Israel. In other words he only came for the white caucasian, anglo-Saxon, Germanic, Scandinavian, and kindred peoples. The Roman Catholic church is stepped in idolatry, it is not the church of Jesus Christ. Like all Protestant churchs, the Roman Catholic church does not abide by Gods laws.
-TerryDid I say Christ founder the Catholic Church. I refer to the fact in truth that there is no singular true church. Whether it be Catholic, Lutheran, or whatever. To say I am a member of a true church is to be Biblically ignorant, full of deceit, vane and prideful.
It was not founded by Jews. If I believe, am I not a Jew. Not according to descent from Abraham, but rather grated into the line of Jesse, father of David.
Terry, you have allowed yourself to become hardened. Believing what the sons of darkness whisper to your ears, you have removed from you, wisdom. Wisdom is eteral, knowledge is fleeting. Seek after wisdom that your heart might become as flesh rather than the stone it apparently become.
-DonTerry:
Really? Are you kidding me?
What you are saying means that you don't read the Bible and. if you read it, you misunderstood many, many, texts from it. I can give you so many texts about biblical, traditional and sacramental matters that it could be written in a big book. So, I don't have time nor place to do it.
All the people that are writing against the ONLY Church founded by our Dear Jesus Christ – GOD – misunderstood the Bible as well.
So, God Bless you and goodbye.
Robert.
-Robert DeLeonRobert, Robert, Robert. You cite Terry for lack of wisdom when you, yourself have neither asked for nor received wisdom. Those who have taught you are the very ones Christ spoke against when he called them murderers and liars.
-DonThe ONLY church founded by Jesus Christ was His own. By His own words in the New Testament we know WHO that is~ and it is.. us! His church is made up of people who believe in Him and keep His Commandments. It isn't a physical building OR a Religion.
"For where two or three are gathered in My Name, there am I in the midst of them." Mt. 18:20.
"Yet the Most High does not dwell in houses made with hands; as the prophet says," Acts 7:48.
"He who has My commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him." Jn. 14;21.
And before there was a Catholic Religion, there were Christians:
"..and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. For a whole year they met with the church, and taught a large company of people; and in Antioch the disciples were for the first time called Christians." Acts 11:26.
The Catholic Religion with its myriads of false teachings didn't begin for a few hundred years later!!
-MargieWell said.
-DonAnti-semite Terry, did you know "Jesus Christ" was Jewish? The proper wording in Hebrew be Yeshua haMashiach. Neither do the Protestant Churches abide by God's Laws, they retained 90-95% of the Roman Catholic Church's teachings. Go here http://www.seedofabraham.net for some truth.
-KalevGoodness Terry, how anti-sementic are your words.
Read the Bible, Christ came for the lost sheep of Israel AND the gentiles (non Jews). Gentiles = ALL non-Jews. Paul reached out to one of the first major populations of Gentiles, the Romans (not exactly anglo). Interesting that you would think that a Jewish man (Jesus) gathered up 12 other Jews, observed Jewish passover and gave his life to save ONLY "white caucasian, anglo-Saxon, Germanic, Scandinavian, and kindred peoples" This ignorance is the whole point of this article where people do not read the Bible for themselves and depend only on others for their knowledge and understanding of God's Holy Word.
So, Jews are God's enemies, the Catholic Church and Protestant churches are not following God's laws and Jesus only came for Anglos … so then, tell us who do YOU think is actually following God according to his laws?
-WadeAnti-Semitic Terry is clueless to the truth and I believe it is better to ignore racist white supremist. BTW, I'm Caucasian, German, Scot, Irish and I know how people like Terry think as I was born to one like him.
-KalevBiblelessChristianity???YOUR WRONG? THE BIBLE IS STILL RELEVENT. ITS THE pOPES,BISHOPS,PRIESTS, RELIGUOUS LEADERS who have NEVER Confronted nor Condemned evil or evildoers. they have Never Removed evil from Christianity ! it started at WOODSTOCK ,and now America is a MORAL SEWER. yes! don't blame bibleless Christianity.Blame the inept,incompetent,useless,weak Mealy-Mouthed ,so-caled Church leaders
-Jack Angelo TerritoPrecisely why it is your responsibility to seek out truth and cast the teachings and doctrines of men into the fire to be consumed. If you expect to find salvation and truth in any one church, you are mistaken and remain with eyes closed and deaf ears.
-DonActually Jack we are also responsible. We don't want to be confronted on sin so we fired all the preachers that had the stomach to do just that, we had ears that needed tickling, we asked for it and we got it.
-KalevI agree that a lot of Christians don't use their Bible enough; then again, that just goes with reading in general. I'm sure if there was a "Know your Bible" game show, or "American Preacher" preach off on tv, then maybe people would actually know something–even if it was a tiny bit. The bad thing is that a lot of unbelievers know more about the Bible. Why? Because they actually read it trying to see what all the fuss is about.
I for one believe that the Bible is just opening the door to God; people argue over denominations, holding onto their "rightness" (lol not righteousness). I mean co'mon, the New Testament is mostly the writings of one person, and some others that were put togther–Back in the day no one carried a "Bible" to church, there was only Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; and if your church had all of them then wow, you were lucky. Now we have a nice book put together with writings from a preacher. Imagine if we got several preachers to write a few epistles for us to follow in modern times? Why not? Are preachers/pastors not supposed to be inspired by God? If not, then why listen to anything they say? I'm just saying–if God is a living God–who is man to put a muzzle on God's mouth and say–no more. No more will man ever be inspired by you–you just kick your feet up God, take a break.
-DavidThe earlly church used the same books found within the temple. The new testament was yet to come together. But was just as inspired and the books of the old testament. If you can't understand that, you surely can't understand what lies within the writings.
-DonRight John, without a solid understanding of the Original Covenant Scriptures the difficult words of Yeshua (and Peter, Paul, John, etc.) are difficult to understand in the Renewed Covenant Scriptures.
-KalevThis article is fantastic… and so true… many churches out there never even research with the Bible. But if we all center ourselves on JESUS we will all find true salvation. The Bible is God's Word and we need to read it and stay close to it and lead others to it.
Why is it the the simple mention of JESUS gets a rise out of everyone???? Ever think about that? Well you should because this is where the devil makes his living….
God loves all of us…. but we all make our own choices in life and there is only now to ask for that trust in Jesus to be Saved….
-Lou ViggianoThe Master wants us to remember that "the gates of hell will not prevail against His church". We must focus on His Living Word as in Philippians 4:8 "Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things." Abba will bring many to His Holy mountain, in fact; "All who call on the name of the LORD shall be saved." Acts 2:21 Build each other up by lifting up Jesus, the Living Word. 1. Procliam and share the Word without fail or favor. 2. Exalt Jesus Christ in all that we do and say. 3. Call God's people to pray in their private place and with each other as was done in the book of Acts. Do these three things and revival will occur from the heart and hand of our awesome and mighty God. Maranatha!
-Alexander JeremiahOne of the major attacks against the Bible has been all the modern versions. They use the corrupted text of Wescott and Hort, and cause much confusion. They may include their omitted Scripture, but have notes that say, "the best texts (which they don't identify, but are Wescott and Horts) don't include this", or "the most ancient texts don't include this", etc., etc. Those two set out to destroy the received text and the Authorized Version. Read Burgon if you want to know how manipulated and insidious their actions were. They even convinced B.B. Warfield with their "system" of giving more weight to Codex A and B, which disagree with each other some 3000 times and contain very bad errors. Yet today we know that the received text is even older than the so called ancient texts, thanks to papyrus texts found that include the received text. 900 plus manuscripts of the received text agree, and 2 texts that disagree 3000 times still had more weight with Westcott and Hort. And guess where those texts are now? In the Vatican.
When the Authorized Version was the only trusted version, Scripture was memorized, everyone was on the same page and we had two great awakenings in America. Before that, the received text is what fueled the reformation. It is the text that God has blessed, and in it His word is preserved. Don't be fooled by these new versions. They only cause confusion and doubt. Read the real word of God, the Authorized King James version and you will know the true Word of God.
-JohnThere are numerous doctrinal error in the KJV also. The TR cannot be older than the "ancient texts". What are your credentials that make you the "expert" on Bible versions?
-KalevI don't have time to educate you on mss and the history of the byzantine text. Read Dean Burgon's "The Revision Revised", or "Unholy Hands on the Bible, An Introduction to Textual Criticism". Look up the discovery of Papyrus Bodmer II, which is dated 200 A.D,, and some believe older than that. The "ancient texts" that Wescott and Hort trumpet are not older than this. No one has the original mss. So don't mince words with me, please.
John William Burgon Was an outstanding English scholar and textual critic. He was appointed Dean of Chichester in 1876. His book, "The Last Twelve Verses of the Gospel According to S. Mark" was so complete that no one tried to refute the book. Yet the modern versions today (using Westcott and Hort's text) still omit those verses though Dean Burgon proved they belong.
There are no doctrinal errors in the KJV. Please name what you believe to be the biggest error in doctrine.
-JohnThe Trinity is one. It has been proven that Matthw 28:19, "baptizing them in the Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" was a much later change, while the evidence supports "baptizing them in My (Yeshua) Name."
Also the KJV erroneously uses "Easter" in lieu of "Passover" in Acts 12:4. The Greek word for Passover is "Peshach" which is the word used in all mss regardless their origins.
-KalevThe trinity traces back to Genesis. Genesis 1:26 (KJV)
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Notice the plural tense? Let US make man in OUR image. What evidence are you giving concerning Matthew 28:19? Sounds like what someone told you. What text are you using? I will deal with Easter later as I have to go to work.
Jesus himself declared himself God in the New Testament. John declared him as God.
John 1:1-14 (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
There is no way to look at the above Scripture and say that there is not a Trinity. No way.
-JohnHi John,
As to the Trinity~ isn't the problem that the Catholics made this up and that they actually worship the Holy Spirit?
This is the problem that I have with the use of the term. If God wanted us to be worshipping a Trinity, He would have put it in the mouths of the Apostles and they would have written about "it".
Nowhere in Scripture does God advise us to pray TO the Holy Spirit, as the Catholics are taught. The Holy Spirit is who helps us to pray, TO God, through Jesus.
It is a grave and sad thing that Catholicism has warped the view for so many believers in this and so many areas.
-MargieHi John,
When I read your post above and the name of the book you mentioned, "Unholy Hands on the Bible", it rang a bell. I went and looked it up and sure enough I saw that it was co-authored by a man named Jay P. Green.
See my post below to Wade where I mention that a wonderful Bible In case you do not know about it, that is available that he put together called the Interlinear Bible. It is a wonderful thing to read, having the Greek, Strong's numbers, a literal translation from the Greek into English alongside the KJV.
God bless.
-MargieThis discussion is interesting although some comments are not well researched. The apostles did not found the Catholic church. It was started by Constantine who hated the Messianic jews. He killed those who continued to worship the way Yeshua taught them and build temples and paganized true Christianity. He worshipped the Queen of Heaven, who he renamed "the virgin Mary". Prodestant churches also have paid clergy who do everything and hinder the true call of the body of Christ which is to come into maturity and be ambassadors to the world.
History, gives us some background information but the Bible read with the Hebraic Biblical worldview gives us the truth. As Jesus said unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God (story of Nicademous). He said to the woman at the well in the Bible that salvation is of the Jews. We have a Jewish Bible and a Jewish Savior so what's up with the anti-semitism?
Thanks for listening.
-JuneYHVH bless you June. You are about the only one here with correct facts, you know the Name Yeshua is why I make my statement. You are one of the true children of Israel, shalom aleikhem sister.
-KalevHow right you are.
-DonWe want an America without a United States Constitution, why does it not surprize me that some want a Bibleless Chirstianity?
We need to fall before God, and apologize for this offense, not because we, of faith do not want a Bible or that we do not want a Constitution, it is just that we have not used our God-given responsibilities to speake up.
Pagans, that want to re-define our Faith, and our Nation, should not go unchallenged.
Roger, Ohio
-Roger A. WalkerAgreed
-What's your deaWow! Much learning has made some of you mad. I'm reminded that Paul was accused of this too. (Much learning has made you mad.) Roman traditionh has been made into doctrine and then history has been twisted to "prove" the RC always believed that. Protestants are little better. They have chosen to worship a book as if it were the Word of God; however, "The Word became flesh (not paper) and dwelled among us and we beheld HIS glory…"
Perhaps, if we spent less energy defending "us vs them" positions and sought Christ Jesus the LORD, the lost world woluld see our mutual love and wonder what could have made one out of such diversity.
-ChaliePieThank you very much Wes Moore. That was very encouraging to hear someone speakout and not cower under "religious correctness". I couldn't agree with you more! Some of the gatherings I have been in, there is no need for a hymn book or the Bible. They put everything on the big-screen, leaving no place for the individual believer-priest to be lead by the Holy Spirit as the Lord commanded in John 4( worship in Spirit and Truth). This of course is in direct contradiction with 1 Cor. 14, when ye assemble, each one has a Psalm,has a teaching, has an interpretation( of couse we don't have the gift of "speaking languages" today-1Cor.13:8), but it makes the point of the priestly participation as lead by the Spirit, where Christ is "in our midst" and all are edified, matter of fact, we are to pray with the Spirit and sing with the Spirit. So then, Paul concludes in vv.26 ff "what is the outcome then, brethern? When ye assemble, each one has a Psalm, has a teaching,…" there is a responsibility for all to participate(the sisters are silent, in v.34, nevertheless, their worship is heard by God)
Unfortunately, the church has opened its doors not only to carnal christians(where there should be repentance of their carnality and expressed to the church), but to unbelievers who cannot understand the things of God, because they are spiritually discerned, causing a "dumbing down" our testimony, as well as a "luke-warmness" in our midst. Those people aren't interested in leading a sanctified life before the Lord in this present evil age,, where is the fear of God,m the solomness in our worship meetings?
I remember years ago when listening to S.Lewis Johnson, the late president of Dallas Seminary when he said, every church gathering should be a seminary and on the job training for gifted men and women. Is it not where we are to assemble together for edification and so much the more as ye see the Day approaching. the early church continued steadfastly, as they received His Word, "devoting" themselves to the apostles teaching, and to fellowsip, and to the breaking of bread, and to prayer. And everyone kept feeling a sense of awe… Paul tells us that all Scripture is God-breathed and is profitble for teaching, for reproof,for correction in righteousness; that the 'man of God' might be adequate, equipppt for every good work.
Today, pastors and leaders want fill the pews inorder to obtain an "adequate salary", so they not only compromise the Truth, as you, brother Wes, pointed out, but also bring in unbelievers (no questions asked). What do unbelievers have in common with the church of God? None! Again, Paul is very clear in 2 Cor.6ff do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlesness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?…or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? for we are the temple of the living God…
They hav compromised their real purpose in the church and their (office) function before God.
Mr. DeLeon is correct commenting on the "protestant" churches. Unfortunately, all bear the name of some man(denominations), but there is only one true church and that is not the "Church of Rome" and the name given to it is revealed in Scripture , and that is the assembly of God, the one He is building, and not man. Certainly, the Rock was not Peter, for he was one of the many living stones, the Lord Jesus Christ is the only Rock, He is the One that the builders(Israel) rejected(not the pope). We thank God for sending His blessed Son to die for ALL OF OUR SINS, as the hymn says, … not in part but THE WHOLE… The doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church are blasphemous, the church of God has One Mediator, between God and men, the Man, Christ Jesus, 2 Tim.2:5
Maranatha/Shalom, yochanan
-yochanan HeimyerJesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments". Those commandments have not been done away with. But, like the doing away of them, so goes the doing away with Bible. I we don't listen to God, He is not going to listen to us. He speaks to us through His Word, The Holy Bible. Listen and you will learn.
-CL McCI find all this interesting, more so that there are still people out there who are interested in discussing God and the Bible. I belong to a Protestant church, but I only think of myself as a Christian, not a denominational name. I believe there are Christians in all denominations, but until we can come together in love, the world will never see Christ in the church (the body of Christ). We must believe certain truths to be a Christian fellowship: That God, the Son and the Holy Spirit make up the Trinity. That Jesus came to earth to die for our sins, and that the only way to salvation is through Him. He rose again and ascended into heaven and will come again to judge this earth (people), that we are all to be judged and will live eternally either with God on in punishment. Many other beliefs are in dispute among Protestant churches, and within the Catholic Church, but if we can agree on the imperative truths we should be able to show the love Christ commanded us to have for our brothers and sisters in Christ. I do study my BIble each day, and study Theology, and the more I study the more I realize that I will never understand it all, but I have understood that we must love others and we must reject evil. God bless you all.
-Mary CarterThe Trinity is a Gnostic doctrine and is NOT in the original texts. There is a Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the true believer of the Son in indwelled by the Holy Spirit. The Father chooses who and when to send the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is fully dependant on the Father alone. The Holy Spirit is the gift given the believer in the Son by the Father. The Trinity doctrine basically teaches the three are fully seperate and operate independently of one another, which is a non-Scriptural understanding.
-KalevRight-oh! Kalev – I'm with you.
One day I was reading in John and came across a scripture that really brought me up quick. I had been thinking about all this trinity gobble-de-gook and stuff about Jesus being elevated to the Godhood position. Then, I saw "it" in John 7:16 – "Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me."
Wow, I thought. That doesn't make sense. If Jesus had been God then he would not have been speaking the word of God. In stead he would have had to be speaking something other than God's Word because the doctrine he spoke was not his. If he and God were the same you'd think they co-ordinated in bringing out the doctrine. But, from this apparently not, for it wasn't his doctrine but that of the one who sent him. At the very least, he seems a little confused (certainy confusing) about just what he was supposed to be saying.
Now, If he wasn't God, but a man sent like any other independent human or angelic messenger, then the passage makes good logical, perfect sense. Since God is not the God of confusion then this view keeps it so simple even a fool need not err therein. The other way makes God look unreasonable, authoring confusion.
-Philippians 4:9Good insight my friend! But Yeshua was equal with God, begotten of God though necessarily born in the flesh; not an angelic messenger. For an exercise take a read of Genesis 18, pray for insight and wisdom first then read. Shalom my friend.
-KalevHow to know if any organization has it right… what God indicates you should look for.
John 14:12 – Jesus Christ said believers would be able to do the the same works he did and greater.
Mark 16: 17 – Among the last things Jesus Christ told the 12 was signs would follow believers. They went out and started to turn the world over. Nothing anywhere says those things would no longer be needed by either the church or humanity in general. Corinthians 13: 10 can't be talking about the full cannonized Word because by the laws of language the same context continues to verse :12 where it talks about being "face to face". "Face to face" with the canon? More than a little fishy smell – and about a week dead.
Acts 15 talks about the first big dispute that arose among the leadership about doctrine. It was determined that Paul's doctrine was aligned with the other Apostles and Teachers.
II Corinthians 1: 8-14 talks about Paul's miraculous healing and raising from death in Lystra. Further, he goes on toexhort them to believe and act on what he taught them while he was in Corinth for 18 months. He exhorts them to believe what they read from him (The Epistle of I Corinthians, at least – all of it). He tells them to acknowledge those things "until the end" ('ews t'elous). What "end"?
v. :14 – "…in the day of the Lord Jesus." That's the end God's speaking about contextually. That's how long God says He'll be open for the signs, miracles, healings and wonders business. (I didn't write the book.) Or, do we still have people who maintain that we no longer need those things because we have "science and medicine"? You must believe those things have made everything all better, now. Right?
If those things stopped it can not be God who stopped them. If they aren't in your life and/or ministry it isn't God's fault. It all seems to have really ground to a halt in the Occident right around 325 A.D. Gee, what happened then?
The biggest doctrinal fracture imaginable – rejection of the one God and establishment of worshiping multiple gods. If you expect God to honor someone's life and ministry like He did Jesus Christ's (Acts 2:22) and the Apostles by "confirming the Word with signs following" (Mar 16:20) it isn't going to work for you to make Him change His mind.
Bring your heart and desire to help God's people into alignment with His Word and Will – or, else, be honest and get out of the ministry. Go find something you're suitable for.
-Philippians 4:9Let me get this straight oh high and mighty one: (To Philppians 4:9)
You're saying that unless every Christian is out performing physical miracles, or if a church or ministry isn't then they are dishonest and should get out of the ministry?
If you are actually trying to sell this you are worse than I thought. What a haughty person you are and you make yourself like God pronouncing judgment by twisting His words!!
I suggest you get honest~ and quick!
-MargieGee, Margie, I know most churches don't want to think it' kosher to do those things anymore. But the facts are that Jesus said in Mark 16: 16-17 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned (judged). And these signs shall follow them that BELIEVE; in my name they shall cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover."
Margie, I didn't write the Book. Paul, also, said in I Corinthians 4:20 – "For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power." This was said regarding some flap-jawwed doctrine corrupters who were trying to teach te Corinthian believers that Paul didn't know what he was talking about. The corruption specialists were there to teach the Corinthians what was right and stop ding all that stuff that God gave the church to tear down the works of the Devil. It is part of how God sets people free and make the "more than a conqueror" (Romans 8:37) lifestyle a reality for people.
That's what He gave us the indwelling spirit of God for and why he called us. That's God's stated opinion.
'Course you've probably got a better idea.
-Philippians 4:9You're taking some of the Bible and using it to say that if miracles and speaking in tongues isn't happening then it isn't of God.
THAT is so wrong. These verses were Jesus telling the Apostles and what they were going to do. He told them what was going to happen. This does NOT mean that every church today has to be performing miracles to be right with God. This is just yet another denomination gone astray. If you believe this it's no wonder why you seem to look down your nose at everyone else!
-MargieWell Margie – How do they know they are right if God isn't confirming the word, what they are teaching, with signs following?
God has always confirmed it whan a person truly speaks for Him by operations of spiritual power. It's His advertizing. How He attracts attention to what HE wants to call people to or bring them to something that has His imprimatur on it.
Otherwise it is probably just philosophy, rudiments of the world, doctrines and commandments of men, etc. (and it must be in alignment with His revealed Word or it's bunko.)
-Philippians 4:9Answer the question, please. You are saying that if a church is not performing miracles and speaking in tongues that it is not of God?
-MargieI can't speak for every religious outfit out there. God made it really simple to become born again. Romans 10: 9-10 does it. But, there are lots o ministers out there who were taught that the resurrection never happened. So, how likely are they to be teaching that basic?
Moreever, if that's where a church stops the needs in those groups will be intense – due to the failure to follow through on the rest of it. Look round.
-Philippians 4:9Philippi,
When you say, "confirming the word", what do you mean by this? The Bible tells us to go out and preach the gospel, love one another, visit orphans and widows in their affliction and to keep ourselves unstained from the world. Where in the Bible is what you speak of?
The Bible also tells us in the book of 1st John that we "have the testimony within us". And elsewhere that by our fruit will we be known.
The gifts of the Spirit are great, but nowhere does it judge a church of being faithless or not of God if there aren't physical miracles being performed.
And the Bible also tells us about speaking in tongues and (1 Cor. 14:23) and warns about how we do it. And it isn't meant to be for advertising, but for edification to the church.
-MargieBetter read up on Paul's writings. Where there prophesies, they will cease. Where there are tongues, they will be stilled. The whole purpose of the work of the Holy Spirit was among other things, be given a sign to the Jews that the prophecy of Joel was fulfilled. God had now brought the Good News to the Gentiles.
-DonMy goodness, the demoninational grandstanding!!!
I am a pastor in a major protestant denomination and it saddens me to see some of the comments given by some of my brothers and sisters in Christ. The Roman Catholic church is "the only way" or Protestants are right because the Roman Catholics "worship idols" OR this version is the only God inspired version. Now I consider myself rather conservative in my beliefs but this hardness is what turns many off from Christianity. If you study your church history you will see that both Roman Catholics and Protestants have had their issues, most often killing their own over doctrinal issues or control. Now as far as Bible versions, unless you are reading the original Hebrew and Greek you are reading through the eyes of an interpreter(s). There are too many Hebrew and Greek words, sayings and customs that do not have adequate English translations for us to properly understand their full meaning without proper study. Example, what meaning does the word "shepherd" have to a fishing village or a hunting tribe? They have no concept of what it means to shepherd a herd of animals. And even today many modern families do not have a clue what the job of a shepherd in the Old and New Testaments entailed. So to get a full understanding we must be students of The Word and not just readers of one translation.
God's Word is to be in our hearts!
-WadeGood points for a member of Christendom. Are you aware of the pagan customs brought into the church beginning around 325 C.E.? If so why are you perpetrating them?
-KalevWade,
I think that those who have no idea about the different versions of the Bible being rather watered down are not going to be held accountable and dismissed by God for it. Most Christians who have been saved by Grace and brought into a relationship with Jesus, after seeking and doing a bit of research on their own will usually find this out~ that there are a lot of versions that are watered down and they will often times stumble upon an interlinear version, which is a wonderful thing, and perhaps you yourself don't know about it.
What I'm meaning to say is, there is GOOD, BETTER and BEST. I was raised up reading from the Revised Standard Version. As I got older I liked the KJV more. Then I discovered this interlinear version. It isn't really a version per se. What it is is this:
On one page it has the Greek language in the middle, with the English words right underneath them), the KJV on the right, and then a literal translation from the Greek in actual sentence form on the left. All words with the Strong's Concordance numbers above them.
To my knowledge, it's the best I've ever seen. If you want to buy one it's called" The Interlinear Bible. Jay P. Green, Sr. Sovereign Grace Publishers.
-MargieI agree with the writer. The Bible should be central to the Christian, and commentaries by Christian scholars and Bible teachers should be secondary. We must develop the habit of first going to the Bible ourselves, as the Bereans of Acts, to search the scriptures. We can gain some clarity by reading commentary literature by trustworthy and faithful Bible teachers, but we must still be willing to do our own reading, all the time praying that the Holy Spirit will give us a clear understanding. We should never simply sit back and allow scripture to be filtered to us without using the mind God has given us.
-John J FlanaganI am a Protestant and concerned about "Sound Doctrine". The Eastern Orthodox church maintains that they have maintained their doctrine from the early Church Fathers and have never compromised, so I decided to study their doctrine and compare it to my denominational beliefs.
They make a strong case for their split with the western Roman Catholic Church in 1059 AD. At that time the Bishop of Rome claimed to be the Pope, (head of all the church). The eastern bishops rejected such a claim and also did not agree with some of the Pope's new doctrine. The eastern bishops marry and have children, etc. They also rejected some of the Pope's other claims.
The Eastern Church hold to personal Holiness, Sanctification, the fear of the Lord and participation in the sacraments.
They have published the New Testament with their expanded notes and I have found it very thorough and challenging.
I would recommend it if you want to be a real Bible scholar.
Jerry from Iowa
-Jerry HillBible-less Christianity is not Christianity at all. Why don't we call it something more appropriate? In lieu of the present teachings in schools of secular humanism, why don't we appoint this as spiritual humanism? It makes
as much sense! People believe they know something of Scripture, but are woefully lacking…
As for some who obviously don't have a real clue what is written in the Bible, to come to this discussion is a form of vanity at best. And congratulations to Zionica, this surely has shown me the level of Biblical understanding which is extant amongs us in this (so-called) Christian nation. Shame on us…
-Nichfinderpeter1589
Obviously you reallt know, or at least understand less than I do. And I claim to be neither wise, nor knowedgable.
How much blood is on the hands of the church. Did Christ say to take forth sword and under threat of death bring comverts. Is this the manner in which the early church began, Nay. The early church did in love. But your church has done these things, not in love, but hate and contempt. Can the blood be cleansed so easily. Deny or justify this.
If I threatened to cut off your head or convert to my religious teaching(s), would you convert or bend to the sword. That is precisely what the church has done. What do you think the inquision was really all about. Do you really think that everyone was witch. If you then say, heresy, does scripture command this, or does scripture command that they be cast out.
-DonUnfortunately, our modern churches are full of ministers who are interested in only one thing; keeping the seats full,along with the money bags. They refuse to preach from the Bible because it is not politically correct, it does not say that being gay is ok with God, it does not say that all religions are ok with God and it doesn't say that there are multiple ways to heaven. Ministers today are very easy on the ears, they do not offend….. and in the end millions of Americans will pay a heavy price.
-Mark CMark –
You got that right. To be closer to the facts I think the churches have been threatened that if they speak politically incorrectly they will lose their non-profit, tax free, charitable organization status with the IRS. I know the homos would love to come after any and all of the churches that don't slavver all over their stinking butts trying to please them. And, come after them with hate crimes charges, they will.
I think the day is coming soon (if it isn't here, now, already) when every church leader will be given the choice to totally corrupt the scripture or go to jail – or worse. Like in the days of Shadrac, Meshak and Abednego who said, "Our God is able to deliver us if He wants to. But, be it known to you, oh Kingy, we won't bow before your ugly phallic symbol. We may burn but we won't bow." Well, they didn't bow but neither did they burn.
Also, the times remind me of the great Martin Luther's immortal words in defence of God's Truth in his pamphlets: "What I have written, I have wriiten. I can not recant." He didn't bow and he didn't burn either.
Most of todays demoninations' ministers and priests have already bowwed to the fudgies…well, we'll see.
-Philippians 4:9Philippians 4:9 says:
Most of todays demoninations’ ministers and priests have already bowwed to the fudgies…well, we’ll see.
And you wonder why people say christians are bigots. It is a mystery all right — to christians.
-Jeff DixonReally glad I attend a church that hasnt given in to the pressure to not speak of sin. We have a radio orogram too and the message hoes out every week. No complaints yet and dont care if there are. Gods word should be taught in order to bring sinners, no matter the in, to repentance.
-What's your deaThere is no Church that operates outside the word of God as the Catholic Church! Check it out in the Scriptures and see if you you'll find anywhere the Bible recommends the worship of Mary (goddess worship) which is one of the pilars of catholicism – one of the pagan ideas brought into catholicism which started as a church state and bought -in all the pagan practices of the Roman empire to entice pagans into the then "new-religion" of the empire. Protestantism was born because of the unBiblical pagan ideas of the church of rome and her popes. Do you remember what the catholic church did to the people of God during the period of popes' temporal power!! Outrageous!!! that church really have her hands stained with the blood of many saints, John Huss, John Wycliffe, etc.
-RonnyRonny, I am sorry, but all the churches operate outside of truth and scripture. Not some. All.
-DonNot all, Don. Truly, you cannot say this. There are millions of Christians (Bible believing) that read and believe and live according to the Bible. I know of them personally. Surely you must know of at least one?
God bless.
-MargieI am sure many people will never agree with me on this but it's how i feel on my beliefs when it come to the Bible, God, Mary, and Jesus. I will always believe in the Almighty God, Mother Mary, and Jesus the Son of God and they will always be in my heart. But i do not believe in the Bible or church because they are man made and i don't feel you need material objects to believe in someone as beautiful as them three are.
-LauraDear Laura,
God does judge our hearts it is true, and if He didn't then none of us could stand before Him. But He says too that if we truly love Him we will keep His words. Don't you want to make sure that you're obeying Him as well as believing Him? Please reconsider the way that you think about the Bible. It is filled with the knowledge and glory and Wisdom and honor and Holiness of God.
"Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My Word, and my Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him." Jn. 14:23.
-MargieMargie , that's beautifully done.
-Philippians 4:9Thanks, Philipi, but it is easiest to love those who already love Him seemingly from a pure heart, and just need a little guidance and nudging. What isn't as easy is trying to tell seasoned brethren that they are thinking wrongly and not according to the Bible. :^).
-MargieNonsense, you tell me all the time I am a liar for not believing. You tell me all the time I am going to hell for not being a believer.
-Jeff DixonMr. atheist Dixon,
No, I tell you what God says. It isn't me saying that you are going to Hell, it is God. I would love to believe that I or anyone could live in sin as we wish and still go to Heaven, that would be so wonderful, but the truth (God's truth) is that we all sin and fall short of that ability.
You come here and quote the Bible alot, but you only read it and quote it in order to rebel further against God. I wish that you would humble yourself instead, get on your knees and ask God to change your heart.. and to take from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. This is what millions and millions of Christians have done since the beginning, since the fall of man. Because of Christ's sacrifice we are allowed.. if we humbly ask, to be forgiven for our sins against Him. He offers us a chance, if we repent (change our minds) to become a child of His.
Our own thoughts are NOT God's thoughts and that is WHY we must allow our minds to seek to see what He says.
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; a good understanding have all those who practice it. His praise endures for ever!" Ps. 111:10.
~You can have an earthly understanding of things or a lot of knowledge about things but if you do not fear God, you have nothing.
An example of God's thought is about what constitutes a liar, and I've quoted this to you before:
"Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son." 1 Jn. 2:22.
Another example of God's thoughts and His Judgment about who is not going to be allowed into Heaven:
"Outside (the Gates) are the dogs and sorcerers and fornicators and murderers and idolaters, and every one who loves and practices falsehood." Rev. 22:15.
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him." Jn. 3:36.
So yes, you are going to Hell unless you turn from your unbelief. I hope you choose to repent, by the Grace of God.
-MargieAnd if you saw a cripple, and knew he was an atheist, then you would say the same to him. Just as I stated.
-Jeff DixonJeff Dixon says:
"And if you saw a cripple, and knew he was an atheist, then you would say the same to him. Just as I stated."
I would help the atheist physically, just as Jesus would. Then I would also do as He did, and ask:
"Do you want to be healed?" Jn. 5:6.
We're all crippled by Sin, but not all of us want to be healed. Do YOU?
-MargieLaura. Sorry that you feel that way. But do you suppose that God should have written the Bible in like manner as the stone commandments. God has always have those who were his from the sixth day of creation even to now.
God uses men as go betweens, rather as wondering prophets or writing prophets.
It is insufficient that a person says I believe in this, that or the other. If one cannot believe in something with the preconception that it was written by man, then is nothing with which to seek after God. If his word cannot be believed, can faith be a good fruit or a rotten fruit. Faith requires understanding. James wrote that faith without works is dead. Therefore faith is a rotten fruit.
-DonDon says:
When a man who believes in Christ passes a crippled man on crutches and that man stumbles and falls, a believer will upright him.
Unless, of course, the cripple is not a believer. Then the Christian will ignore him, mock him, tell him he is going to hell, imprison him, kill him or recoil in horror from him.
-Jeff DixonNow there is an example from you that is a blatant lie.
-Margieaccidently posted reply above
-Jeff DixonWhat a lie from the devil, a true Christian will help them no matter what! It's called showing the love of Christ.
-What's your deaI see your examples of love to unbelievers every day.
-Jeff DixonYou don't see mine.
-What's your deaJeff, you are so childish. Grow up.
-MargieLet's see. We have Whats your deal calling me a devil. We have you calling me a liar and a snake. There is Philippians 4:9 referring to gay people as 'fudgies". And what you consider childish is me saying I see examples of Christian love everyday in a sarcastic manner.
Yep, well, at least you are very consistent.
-Jeff DixonLaura where dId you get your belief, if it were not for the Bible no one would know of the things you say you believe in……God's word whether spoken from heaven to the early prophets, or thru the Old Testament or the New Testament (which is the covenent of THE BLOOD of Jesus Christ) and passed to us thru the Holy Spirit, none of us would be aware of the things you speak of. We would only know there was at least a CREATOR of some kind thru our universe and the glories therein. If you do know anything of the scripture, the Church is not manmade. but was purposed in the mind of GOD before the beginning of time, as man knows time…
-PatsyJeff Dixon,
Enjoy the laughter while you have breath. When a man who believes in Christ passes a crippled man on crutches and that man stumbles and falls, a believer will upright him. You, who are child of darkness would shove him to the ground and make off with is crutches. Then sell what you have stolen. You desire nothing of God. You find salvation contemptable. You only that you were born and that death is a part of life. You do not know anything that you should and know much about things that place a even heavier yoke upon yourself.
Least you change the path you are headed, you will come to that time of lamentation and mourning. You will then know the sorrow that the end of end has come upon you. Thr blood shall be upon your own head. You surely will see Christ in all his glory, but you will be standing at his left. Knowing the time for that final spiritual is near at hand.
Therefore, take heed that God does call. But you are too busy with laughter to hear.
-DonJeff Dixon:
It is fun to se us arguing? Well, at least we care enough to argue, and most of us actually desire to please God. The Bible tells Christians to outdo one another in showing honor. Christians are sinners saved by the Grace and mercy and love of God. We aren't better than each other and all have our different weaknesses, but we want to serve God. (Those who want to).
Now you~ you despise God and call Him a liar.. in your words here at least, that is what we see. So your purpose is to laugh at us and to disrupt and discourage Christians! Well continue on, you seem to be fulfilling your destiny.. sadly.
You see, to those who are perishing.. the word of the cross is foolishness.
"For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1 Cor. 1:18.
-MargieHas nothing to do with despising god. I do not hate myths. And Jesus is a myth, in the tradition of many other man-gods. For example Osiris. Artifacts and historical records prove Egyptian presence and influence in the Levant, prior to the rise of the Hebrew/Israelite/Jewish people, and it is apparent that the Canaanite and Israelite peoples were infused with the Osiris myth, which thus affected their own religions, including the Judaic offshoot, Christianity. Like Jesus, Osiris was once believed to have incarnated as a human savior who died and was resurrected for the good of mankind:
Osiris has a human development. He is God in heaven and hell, but once appeared as man on earth.
He is one of the Saviours or Deliverers of Humanity, to be found in almost all lands. As such, he is born into the world. He came, as a benefactor, to relieve man of trouble, to supply his wants. In his efforts to do good, he encounters evil. He is killed. Osiris is buried. His tomb was the object of pilgrimage for thousands of years. But he did not rest in his grave. At the end of three days, or forty, he rose again, and ascended of heaven.
-Jeff DixonAs do Christians today, the millions of followers of Osiris were quite certain that, even though he was the Omnipotent Lord of Lord and King of Kings, he had at some point walked the earth; he was a person who had lived and died. They had no manner of doubt about it. Did they not know his birthplace? Did they not celebrate his birth by the most elaborate ceremonies, with cradle, lights, etc.? Did they not hold his tomb at Abydos? Did they not annually celebrate at the Holy Sepulchre his resurrection? Did they not commemorate his death by the Eucharist, eating the Sacred Cake, after it had been consecrated by the priests, and become veritable flesh of his flesh?
Hmmm, sounds so familiar, yet this story was written over a thousand years before Jesus supposedly walked the Earth.
-Jeff DixonMr. atheist Dixon,
There is no other person but Jesus Christ who has risen from the dead after having become the sacrifice for the Sin of the world and being crucified according to the will of God. He suffered for your sake, too. Because of this, you are truly not your own. Your life belongs to Him, as you, along with the rest of mankind owe Him our lives as a living thank You.
There is no other person but Jesus Christ who still lives and is able to make intercession for us to God the Father. Miracles are ONLY done in the Name of Jesus to this very day.
Go here to read about one such individual named Betty Baxter. A documented miracle. I have met her in person.
http://www.godfire.net/BettyBaxterText.html
Scroll to the bottom after reading and click on "Home" to hear her testimony aloud.
-MargieThere are people of every religioius faith who claim to have been healed by god.
Here are an examples of such stories
http://media.radiosai.org/Journals/Vol_06/01NOV08…
http://shiastrength.blogspot.com/2009/11/shiastre…
-Jeff DixonDo YOU want to be healed?
-MargieThat is what you fail to grasp. I am not crippled by sin. The entire concept is part of the god myth. Actually, you are not crippled by sin either. However, you are blind to the reality of the universe we live in.
-Jeff DixonYou do not just try to outdo other Christians. You attack them and call them names just as you do with anyone who disagrees with you.
-Jeff DixonMr. atheist Dixon,
The Bible verse you are speaking of states that Christians should outdo one another in showing honor, not just outdo one another. So, if the honor part is missing, it's no good. And no, I cannot say I have lived up to that at all, so you are right.
As to calling names, I call them as I see them. If you behave like a snake I will call you a snake. And if a fellow Christian pursues me for no good reason because I have taken a stand on Biblical truth and they see fit to come after me personally for it, I will say they are behaving like disingenuous trolls.
What I and many others here have seen from you is plenty of wrongful name calling and blatant lies.
And God will be the Judge of all of us.
-MargieMargie, I agree, most of the name calling is directed toward our God and His Son. Yes, we will all be judged some day.
-What's your deaYou say there is no "hell-fire". The "grave" is Hell. then what was Jesus talking about when He told the story of the rich man and Lazarus, the homeless man? Jesus says, " And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died, and was buried. And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, "Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, "Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receiveth thy good tidings, and likewise Lazarus evil things: But now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
And in Matthew 18: 8-9 Jesus teaches: "If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell. a great gulf fixed, so that they which would pass from hence to you, cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence."
"But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell"
Someone has to be mentally challenged or deliberately deceptive to ignore these and a myriad of other Scriptures in the NT and OT that speak directly of hell fire. There are more references but obviously all this talk ABOUT the Bible doesn't mean that anyone has read it.
-MG HENRYWhat is the water the rich man desires. Since he is no longer is in body andbecause the body is dead, he is in the spirit. The spirit thirsts not for the water that flesh needs, but is rather the spirtual water, which comes from Christ. He desired not what he should have desired while alive, but in death he now desires. That water is Christ as Savior and as the water of life.
It is written that when a man dies, his body goes back to the dust of the earth and his spirit returns to God, who gave it. It does not say some, but refers to all men. Did not Christ say that the goats were to the left and the sheep to the right. This is not a post judgment statement, but a prejudgment statement. Christ further spoke of a second death. Since the flesh dies the first death the spirit of the unsaved are to perish in the second death.
Christ spoke symbolically. Concerning the hand and eye, or any other part of the body, Christ does not refer to the physical body, but the spiritual body, which is the members of the church. The church is made of members representative of parts of a bodt. The head, eyes, mouth, etc. Christ did not say that if a man's right hand offends to cut it off, or pluck out an eye. If you cut off your right hand and made that same offense would then cut off your hand. It is not the physical body. I hope you understand that.
Scripture must support scripture. If the wages of sin is death, then is hell a place of death or life. If the body dies as all bodies will, to what did Jesus speak of when saying second death. That is the problem within the churches. Scriptures which are appealing for the formation of creating doctrine are used. But other scripture which is relative to the same subject are cast aside. That is because they cast dispersion and doubt on the doctrine. Christ spoke again about doctrines of men and of demons.
People will use the scriptures wherein Elijah (Elias) was carried to heaven in a whirlwind. The description put forth in scripture is used by UFOlogists to support their theory that he had been carried off in some alien spacecraft. But this is nonsense as you very well know.
Satan knows the word from cover to cover. Satan apparently had knowledge of a coming Savior, He should have since he brought sin to heaven, thus he was cast down. But when Satan entered into Judas Iscariot to betray Christ, had that knowledge been removed from him. The reason the fallen ones cohabitated with the daughters of men was to corrupt the bloodline through which the promise was to come. But God spared Noah and his sons and their wives. This attempt at corrupting the bloodline involved nearly the whole of the human population.
Finally. If the dead go a firey place called hell, do not the beasts of the earth go to the same place. Since beats lack spirit as men do, both man and beast die and are consumed by the earth, returning to the dust thereof.
I don't know about any other God than the one who will administer judgment, but is not without mercy that the unsaved are given eternal life in some firey place. For is it not salvation that brings forth eternal life. How then can the wicked too gain eternal life, although in some place. And what is the lake of fire. Is it strictly where Satan and the false prophet are cast. Or is there other use, say for those judged according to the law.
-DonI think many of us are getting this arguement wrong. ALL organized religion including the Catholic and all Protestant churches are formed by men and imperfect. Tradition is fine. The Apostles taut by word of mouth what Jesus taught them. That is NOT tradition. They were bearing witness to what God revealed to them through his Son.
When Jesus told the Apostles he would return they assumed it would be in their lifetime. When they started to realize that wouldn't happen they put what they learned from Christ down on paper. The Bible as it was originally written is the perfect inspired word of God. Unfortunately, those languages are nolonger in use. So translations by men with their imperfections are needed. All translations have some errors in them Catholic and protestant alike. I'm sure all translators did their best to convey the origional meaning. My Bible has many footnotes stating how some transcripts have more or less text than is included in this translation.
My Pastor has taught the law this way:
1) The Bible is the only true authority for our lives.
2) Apostolic tradition is helpful in worshipig God, but not required to follow.
3) Local tradition or denominational tradition.
Tradition should be continually reviewed to see if it coincides with the Bible. If it doesn't, it must be taken out of practice. If the Bible doesn't specifically mention a subject, tradition may be followed.
The celibacy issue refers to Paul stating (excuse my paraphrasing) he wished all who served God would do like him and devote themselves to God. But instesd of having sinfulness, let a man take a wife. It was never given by God as a requirement to lead the church. It was just Paul's preference.
-PhilSpeaking of Mary… a fine and holy Jewish girl, the mother of Jesus….when she heard Elizabeth's greeting, she spoke out, in the beautiful Magnificat…. Mary declares, " My soul magnifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in GOD MY SAVIOR……..She needed a Savior just like the rest of us. She gave a flesh body to Jesus, but she was a sinner, saved by grace, later on, just like us. Out of her own mouth, she said "MY SAVIOR."
-MG HENRYDon, you missed the point. The spirit of a man/woman in HELL FIRE is the point. Those that say Hell Fire is not really fire only ignore a myriad of scriptures that say otherwise. The spirit of the rich man was in FLAME! Abraham told him it was too later for a drink of the Spirit of the living God for there was a "gulf" between Heaven and Hell and no one could cross that great divide. Th point is this to those who are saying that HELL is not really Hell…but the grave, the place of the dead, etc. In many instances Christ speaks in the Scriptures of HELL FIRE, FLAME, BURNING. No matter how any language translates the word, Christ describes it, Isaiah describes it; Luke 16, Rev.21:8, Is 64, Matthew 18 and 10; Rev. 14; Is. 30; Rev. 19…and on and on..
I agree with what you are saying about the spiritual members of the Body of Christ. But those who preach that there is not a literal Hell and that it is a place of isolation, only, (TRUE)…. and not eternal burning are not telling it like it is. And I question their motives.
-MG HENRYBro. Wes, You really have a great article and it is so true. What I can't understand is some of the nonsense sent as a reply to your artticle. I don't see anywhere that you mentioned the Catholic Church or any of these other things that are way out in left field. Keep up the good work. I've been walking with the Lord for 62 years and in all that time there has never been anything that approaches the madness and apostasy that is in the Church today. Surely His coming is nigh. The fellow that said they don't worship Mary should taht a careful look at some of the "adoration" they give Mary. Probably if she knew about that she would weep. If Mary is not divine, how can she hear all of the prayers she is aked to pray? She could only hear one request at a time. Sorry I got off on this. Trust our Catholic friends are not too offended. Colossians 1:18 "that in all things He (Christ) might have the preeminence.
-JimBro. Wes, You really have a great article and it is so true. What I can’t understand is some of the nonsense sent as a reply to your artticle. I don’t see anywhere that you mentioned the Catholic Church or any of these other things that are way out in left field. Keep up the good work. I’ve been walking with the Lord for 62 years and in all that time there has never been anything that approaches the madness and apostasy that is in the Church today. Surely His coming is nigh. The fellow that said they don’t worship Mary should take a careful look at some of the “adoration” they give Mary. Probably if she knew about that she would weep. If Mary is not divine, how can she hear all of the prayers she is aked to pray? She could only hear one request at a time. Sorry I got off on this. Trust our Catholic friends are not too offended. Colossians 1:18 “that in all things He (Christ) might have the preeminence. (Sorry to repeat this, but I misspelled the word "take" in the previous article.)
-JimMost all of the above qoutes remind me of a room of little children arguing who has the best toy! They lost sight of the messege of no "Bible" teaching anymore not about which group is correct ! This is partly why the lost world looking in laughs so hard and loud. All they see so offten is different "christian groups" swearing they are the right ones and all else are wrong or false ! If you believe you are right, then go teach and preach what you so strongly believe and we shall see who is correct at judgement day ! That's what is going to happen anyway. That's what Jesus said when he learned of the "wheat and tares". He was asked:do you want us to pluck the tares from the wheat ? His reply was:no,lest ye pluck the wheat with the tares. When Christ sends the reaper (The Holy Spirit) on that day to gather the wheat from the tares (the true Church /Believers) from the false teachers/believers ,then the truth of who's right will be known. Don't argue ! Preach it,teach it, live it,let's see who's right ! The Holy Spirit "will" lead the right to eternal life.The truth is in God's Word if one wants to find it and know it. Christ will make himself known to all who want him ! Christ is not to be argued,but believed !
-Tim HudginsWell then, I suppose then that Wes Moore shouldn't have written the article and should have rather been out "preaching it".
Jesus is always right. It's a matter of who is listening to Him. This is a forum for discussion. I suppose it is easiest to come and throw stones at everyone making yourself look good, but that isn't the desire of at least some of us here, only that I care about getting it right.. according to His words in the Bible, which IS after all, the subject Wes Moore has written about.
-MargieOnly God Alone, Absolute and Uniquely ONE, can be our Savior. God of Messiah (Christ Jesus), the grand-son of Hannah (and her husband) Imran, and he (Jesus) was the son of Mary. Son was Mary was born to the daughter of Imran (and Hannah). Neither Mary was mother of God, nor Jesus (pbuh) is a son of God. Why ?? Simply because God is Only 1. God Has no wife or husband, no mother or father, no sons or daughters and obviously no begotten son. God neither begets nor He is begotten of anyone. Why ?? Because God is a Creator, God creates whatever He wills. Jesus (pbuh) is one of his creation just like Adam. God created Adam from dust of the earth, without any biological father and mother for Adam. Thus God created Jesus (pbuh) only from his, i.e. Jesus' mother.
If due to the miraculous birth of Jesus (pbuh) Christians regard him as god or son of god and erroneously worship him (Jesus) instead of worshipping his Creator – ONE God only, why then they, i.e. Christians (Catholics and Protestants) worship Prophet Adam (the First Man) who was created by God without biological father and mother both — a double miracle than the miraculous birth or creation of Jesus (pbuh) ???????
Man-god, woman-god (godess), son of God are all myths and false and erroneous beliefs. Please correct your beliefs and alighn those with the beliefs of Christ Jesus (pbuh) and his Disciples only, and leave Paul alone. Stay with the belief or true path of Jesus (pbuh) of his ONE God, the same God which Moses, Abraham, Noah and Adam worshipped, They all worshipped their Creator, not triune-god or trinity or one-in-three. Word "Trinity" or "Christianity" does not exist anywhere in all the Gospels. Give me exact reference, I assure you I will then be Trinitarian (Paul's belief) instead of believing ONE God of Jesus (pbuh). Thanks for your understanding of ONE God.
-ZackI refuse to leave Paul alone! In fact, I cannot wait to meet Him in Heaven, by the Grace of God.
And you would like a reference in the Bible that Christianity existed? Well you must not have ever actually READ the New Testament if you have to ask this, but here's just ONE:
"..and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. For a whole year they met with the church, and taught a large company of people; and in Antioch the disciples were for the first time called Christians." Acts 11:26.
Christians do not worship Allah, we worship the God of the Bible through His Son, Jesus Christ, with the help of His Holy Spirit.
-MargieWes Moore,
Thank you for this article, it is actually encouraging to me. The way to be able to make sure we are following what He wants is to read the Bible and pray that He causes our hearts to want to love His commandments, like King David did. In fact, reading Psalms in the morning is a good idea for sisters. David constantly prayed and pressed through his flesh, he clung to God's precepts and his words all throughout them. The Psalms are just filled with his soul seeking and thirsting for God's words. He prayed all the time begging for and asking God to keep his heart right. He is such a wonderful example for us to learn from~ how to pray~ how it's only God that can soften our hearts and make them right before Him.. a total reliance upon Him, and not ourselves.
"Create in me a clean heart, O God, and put a new and right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence, and take not thy holy Spirit from me. Restore to me the joy of thy salvation, and uphold me with a willing spirit. Then I will teach transgressors thy ways, and sinners will return to thee." Ps. 51:10-13.
"These are the things that you shall do: Speak the truth to one another, render in your gates judgments that are true and make for peace, do not devise evil in your hearts against one another, and love no false oath, for all these things I hate, says the LORD." Zech. 8:16 & 17.
"Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teach and admonish one another in all wisdom, and sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs with thankfulness in your hearts to God." Col. 3:16.
"And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery; but be filled with the Spirit, addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with all your heart, always and for everything giving thanks in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God the Father. Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ." Eph. 5:18-21.
-MargieMarge,
Having read the firestorm of comments in this thread, I've come to one conclusion – if there is one thing worse than knowing nothing from the Holy Bible, it is knowing just enough to come to a false conclusion. There are many false conclusions among the comments listed here.
But your citing of Ps 51:10-13 casts the womb of peace over any troubled mind. This scripture is recited toward the end of every service I have attended in my church. David is the exemplary believer, to my way of thinking. He, capable of the most disgusting behavior, yet forever conscious of his accountability to his Creator, is truly remorseful over his fallen human self. Thus, he communicates with a real entity, in true acceptance of that entity's existence, and humbly seeks forgiveness and renewal of his relationship with the only one worthy of our worship. Each of us, in our own ways, need to utter these words, genuinely desiring to discern the truth of that Creator to whom we are all accountable.
"If any lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives freely of his Holy Spirit." Thus, if somewhere along the path of faith we have received faulty information, God will surely answer our prayers for an eventual truly correct understanding of what and how he wants us to know him. Does anyone think his belief might be in error? If that person wishes to believe genuinely, in spirit and in truth, let him ask God personally. That request, if sought with valid intent, will surely be answered.
And, yes – read your Holy Bible, prayerfully. From Genesis to Revelation, it is an integrated whole statement, entirely consistent within itself. The more you read it, the clearer it will become, and for those areas that are hard to understand, ask for clarification from God. It will come in due time.
God bless you, Marge, and all those who truly seek to worship God – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit – in spirit and truth.
-Robert JentzschThanks, Robert.
Romans 5.
-Margie