School Suspends Students for Sharing Bible Verses
Relentless. That’s how some might describe the Roswell Independent School District. That’s because the New Mexico system appears to be on a mission to squash the Word of God on its campuses, according to a lawsuit Liberty Counsel filed.
The suit alleges the Roswell Independent School District retaliated against a Christian group called Relentless, punishing and suspending its members for buying and giving fresh Krispy Kreme doughnuts with Bible verses to each of their teachers.
The students went to great lengths to share the Word of God. The closest Krispy Kreme shop was in Texas. Some members of the group drove almost six hours round trip, stayed overnight, got up at 3 a.m., filled their car’s back seat with fresh doughnuts and got back to school on time to deliver the doughnuts. When they handed out the doughnuts, a Scripture verse was included. One student was immediately sent home and two others were forced to spend a Saturday morning sitting alone in the classroom for four hours as a punishment.
“Some teachers are worried about their students giving them bullets, and this school suspends students over a Bible verse! These students are living their Christian beliefs by showing kindness,” says Mathew Staver, founder and chairman of Liberty Counsel and dean of Liberty University School of Law. “It is outrageous that the Roswell school officials are mean to these students solely because they are hostile to their Christian faith.”
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These students deserve our support. They have "counted the cost" and desired to share the word of God, even if predictably there would be some who would find this act offensive.
-John J FlanaganGodless communist are doing what communist do.
-icetroutAmen to your stand on this school and our government going wildly liberal, no, even far more than that, communistic to it's very core…
-Truman HillI bet they can share the word that the man in the white house prays too…. or talk about the koran….. and they wonder why kids want to do drugs and crime…. guess allah and the anti American socialist democrats want you too… moooooslims are going to be mad when they find out that allah is God house boy…
-joe d"That morning, one student had decided to take her own life because of her past decision to abort. When she received a model baby with the Scripture, "You are fearfully and wonderfully made," she cried and prayed with the students and her life was saved, both physically and spiritually with the forgiveness of God."
THIS is one of many reasons why the students' ministry is so important. Had they NOT reached out to this girl with the love and kindness of Jesus Christ, she would have taken her own life. I think the people who are punishing these students for what they did, are pathetic. The school officials who are persecuting these students are the ones who need to be punished.
-Linda F.It is supposed to be pathetic, and boggle the mind, of a loving person, anyway. The schools are run by a system that is satanic. The information that is coming out of the alternative news sources paints a far more grim persecution than suspension from school. I saw an interview yesterday called 'Genocide of Babies and Children, in Japan, US, and Canada Grows'. This interview can be seen on YouTube, or through Infowars.com.
-ChrisPlease. Don't rely on emotionally provocative non-sequiters to get your point across. Emotions have no say in this. The kids were wrong and they were punished reasonably ACCORDING TO THE RULES.
-AtheistI can't say that I'm surprised by your response, Atheist. First of all, I'm allowed to be emotional about this. The death of a baby, whether it is in the womb or outside the womb, is an emotional issue. So is suicide or attempted suicide. So don't tell me, or anyone else, that we shouldn't be emotional.
Second of all, these kids did nothing wrong. They reached out to a girl who was thinking about killing herself because she was devastated over her decision to end the life of her child. Tell me something, Atheist: what would have happened if the kids had chosen NOT to reach out to this young lady? And what were the school officials doing when they found out that this young lady had contemplated suicide? Did they reach out to her and offer her counseling services? Doesn't sound like they did that. Instead, they were too busy persecuting the students who did something to help her!
They were NOT wrong to reach out to this young lady. And no one – not you, or anyone else – can convince me to think otherwise.
-Linda F.The school violated the students Constitutional rights. IOW the kids were right and the school was wrong ACCORDING TO THE RULES!!!
-FlameCCTThe school system's response to the doughnut distribution is absurd. As to the distribution of the "fetus" dolls along with information on a local pro-life counseling center, the school system was probably within its rights, since they have an across-the-board, nonselective policy against solicitation. From a news release on the subject:
"District officials have said they prohibited the students from distributing the dolls because school policy does not allow advertising or solicitation on campus."
-bighossI don't care what you say, this is stopping the student's freedom of speech! If a Muslim came in and got on their knees to pray. There would not have been a problem with that! They can't see that what the Christian students did saved the girls life! I just praise the Lord that the students stood up for they're freedoms. I just ask the Lord to give them favor. In the name of Jesus! Amen.
-MarilynThe problem is that "Whoever Controls the Schools – controls the future" The atheists who called themselves humanists (who are also international socialists at heart) realized this a long time ago and got control of the schools gradually so that now in order to get a job in this society one must go through them.
-John BarbourI'm sorry to say this, but that school can go to Hell! How dare they do that to the students!
-AnonymousThe admins and teachers at the school most likely will have a date with the lake of fire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-Paul E Taylor JrNOT something to celebrate, Paul.
-Linda F.We have got to take our schools back!!! I think that we have some really, really demented people 'teaching' our children. This next generation is going to be soooo messed up ~ not knowing the difference between right and wrong, if we don't make a stand and take our schools back from the morally twisted Federal Government and teacher's union!
-CynthiaCynthis..it may be too late. Children who are now in the 20's have been indoctrinated with self love and self esteem and a great sense of entitlement. They were taught to not listen to their parent's and there is not a wrong or a right but whatever feel's good''then that is what is good. Our school's stopped being academic decades ago and are indoctrination center's. Now 1st. grader's are taught 'there are more than one way to be a boy/girl and that homsexuality is 'good'If you had checked out the list of referred reading for gradeschool children suggested by obama's safeschool czar..you would be sick at heart. These book's teach how to have perverted sex..to 1st..2nd. and thrid grader's. Where were the parent's when their children were aquainted with 'fisting' at their school's. We parent's were so busy making money and making certian we had 2 car's..a expensive house and all the toy's that we 'threw our children to the wolves' where they were devoured by an education system that stink's to high heaven's.
-annaCynthia, your idea is great but how do you go about taking our schools back? Our country has turned its back on God and until more people realize that We the People need to turn back to God we will lose what little freedom we have left.
-MaryYeah!! Take the schools back!! Make sure that the Qu'aran is front and center, too! WOO HOO! What, no? oh.
-AtheistYAY! Power to ALLAH IN THE HIGHEST…TAKE OUR SCHOOLS BACK….
-AtheistIs it TOO much to ask for a mature response from you, Atheist?
-Linda F.Probably is too much to ask as it appears his/hers/its vocabulary and education are limited.
-FlameCCTUntil children are pulled out of the public schools things will not change. There also needs to be an uproar like the unions in Wisconsin. We Christians sit back and say what needs to be done and who does it? I've been on the forfront for 30 years about this and have gotten nothing but people making fun of me. And that's ok. I do not care. I did get what I wanted but it needs to be on a bigger scale. I have ordered brochures from Matt Staver of LIBERTY COUNCIL to give to each school and let them know what the students rights are. Children do not give up their religious rights at the school house gate. My daughter says humorsly that the school probably still has a chair in the office for me because I was always up there. Lots of parents simply do not care. Let the government do it and see what we get. The most important thing for your child is their spiritual well being. Why do we leave it to the government?
-barbiebunsFortunately, my church opened up a school so parents won't have to worry about their children being exposed to the secular worldview that public schools so often promote. The teachers are all volunteers, and the school is approaching it's third year. It's been successful so far. I know that if I were a mother, I would want my children to go to a school that promotes Christian values. I don't want them to have to deal with I had to go through in high school.
-Linda F.Hi Linda,
-barbiebunsI commend your school for doing this. Why is it that conservatives want to keep what they believe in and liberals, unfortunately, want us to keep quiet, and/or go away. IF they want to believe what they do, leave us alone. Our childrens minds are at stake and we should do whatever it takes to save them instead of filling their minds with all the gobble-gook out there.
I remember when I was in elementary school back in the early 1970's, they used to passed out little red New Testament books every year to 4th and 5th graders. There are not allowed to do that today since the people allowed the seculars to get strong.
-DougTheir communist not seculars.
-icetroutTHEY'RE.
-AtheistI remember when the Pledge of Allegiance, in its entirety (including "under God"), was spoken during assemblies at my school. I don't know if that's the case now. Maybe that's changed since I graduated from high school 13 years ago.
-Linda F.The Pledge is an entirely different issue. When the Pledge was created it did not contain the words, Under God". Therefore, the entirety of the Pledge was altered when the words were added. The Pledge was written in 1892. It was not until 1954 that the additional words were added. For 62 years, the Pledge allowed Americans of ALL beliefs to proudly make a statement to this great country. The Pledge without those two words, was sufficient to get us through WW I & II.
However, now, the original and completely satisfactory Pledge has been altered and made a point of controversy. If it had never been changed, then ALL Americans could still proudly make a statement to the USA without compromising who they are and what they believe.
I am sure you feel the Pledge was enhanced with these words, but many disagree. Given that is never necessary to change this Pledge, it is unfortunate that one group in America has hijacked the Pledge that was meant for all citizens.
-Jeff DixonJeff: with all due respect, I didn't ask for a history lesson.
If non-believers do not want to say, "under God," they don't have to. But there are those of us who DO want to say, "under God," and we should be able to do so freely.
-Linda F.If people paid more attention to history, we could avoid many problems that we experience.
The point that you want to ignore, is that the reason the Pledge is not used in many schools is because it was altered with the words "Under God". If it had never been altered, then people would not be fighting over it. The religious in this country have hi-jacked the Pledge when it was written for all citizens and was perfectly acceptable in its original format.
-Jeff DixonNo Jeff – It's the atheists who hi-jacked the Pledge and took away the freedom of speech for all the faithful. You can have a after school club on homosexual methods – on Muslim faith – probably even on bomb-making. But because of you and your ilk, the people of faith have to hide to worship or be expelled. How is that right?
-LuAnnI am a 72 year old woman, ( or will be in Oct.) When I was young and going to school, we always had prayer and recited Bible verses, also the Pledge of Allegiance. This country has gotten so Polittically Correct that it should be called pollitically corrupt, and it is very demeaning to all who know better and knows right from wrong. It's time to take a stand against all this PC, for it's a bitter pil to swallow. All the ones who turn their backs on God and right from wrong, will also be on one knee, asking the Lord to have mercy on them.
-JOYPolittically Correct is an oxymoron!!
-SandyEmphasis on "moron."
-Linda F.And the sad thing, Joy, is that those who will be begging for His mercy, will not get it. They knew of the Lord, knew right from wrong, because of the foundation of this country. There is just too much of God's presence still in this country for them to claim ignorance. Unless they repent before they die, and accept God's gift of Salvation (Jesus Christ), they will know Him not. They will suffer the eternity of death.
-kodster5OK, it's time to fire the School Board. Elect people who know how to read. The constitution is clear on this matter. Donuts are OK. Words on paper are not. The teachers do not have to read the papers. This is the Communist/Marxist method of destroying a free society. First step for the people – with hold school taxes because of failure to provide adequate education. Let the parents take over school board meetings, school administrative offices, and make their voices heard. Stop being sheep, or the Communist in the White House and his friends will have you wearing stars on your sleeves soon. If you do not know what that means, find out fast, or you will become what Obama's favorite White House guest made Jews become in WWII. Yes, Gyorgy Schwartz (George Soros) sold Jews to the Nazi's as a teenager in Hungary. And the US is his next target. Open your eyes. It's going to be too late in 2-3 more years.
-spxzYou're right… and for people to think that Christians are safe, they're not Jews, had better study history. Germany shot and killed more Christians than Jews, because they refused to comply with the Socialist government that Hitler was instilling. And the conditions of Germany at the time of the first 2 WW are the same as they are here in the US… it's frightening to see the correlation of what it was like there, and to see it happening here. We're ripe for the picking.
-kodster5Yeah, elect people who know how to read THIS: "Unwelcome attempts by individuals or groups of students to impose religious beliefs or
-Atheistconvert others to religious beliefs or to non-belief are not permitted in school related activities."
According to the U.S. Constitution, it is the ‘prohibiting of the free exercise thereof’ that is not allowed. That is the LAW OF THE LAND! preaching the religion of atheism is also allowed. Let’s just impeach all the judges that ‘rewrite’ or rule contrary to the U. S. Constitution.
-DavidSorry Atheist, I did not pay enough attention to your last few words…”are not permitted in school related activities.” That may be so but handing out flyers or doughnuts are not considered to be school related activities. Forgive me.
-DavidSo, you believe the Mormons should have been allowed to practice polygamy as part of their free exercise right? Should Native Americans have been allowed to use peyote as part of their religious expression?
-Jeff DixonThe students should sue for violation of their rights – everybody else does. If school officials don't want the verses then they don't have to read them. I would like to see the majority of students get behind them and force school officials to back down.
-Walt"Unwelcome attempts by individuals or groups of students to impose religious beliefs or
convert others to religious beliefs or to non-belief are not permitted in school related activities. "
The suspension will stand, trust me.
-Casual ObserverIt is time to sue the school, the school board and the teacher that suspended the student. This is America; the land of the free and a country founded on biblical principles whether you believe it or not! Truth is truth even if no one believes it. Should we also eliminate all the words that our founding fathers penned?
-Vincent FerraccioliJohn Adams said: “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
Was he wrong? No, he was not. The school board, teachers and administrators at the Roswell Independent School District need to get educated on what our founding fathers said and thought. Amen!
That's why they're trying to get rid of our Constitution! It IS wholly inadequate to the government of any other. We are no longer a moral and religious people. That is the reason why we are collapsing. We need to have the Great Awakening that the Lord prophesied would come about in the end days of the Church Age. And NOW!
-kodster5He also said, "The Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation. If I were an atheist, and believed blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations." So YAY! Torahs for everybody!! All hail the Gospel of "THE ADAMS"
-AtheistThe Jews have always been the "chosen people" of God – I will always support Israel over the godless Palestinians.
-LuAnnAlso, wouldn't it be nice if people were just good, because it's good to be good? Not because they feared an imagined sky goblin's wrath?
-AtheistTell me something, Atheist: what is so good about condemning a group of school kids for reaching out to a suicidal student in love? Because that's what you and the school board have been doing. Tell me something else, Atheist: what would YOU have done to help the suicidal student? And what would you have done if your attempt at helping her had failed?
Stop condemning these students for reaching out to the suicidal girl in love. Because of their actions, she is alive. I'd like to see what you or the school administration would have done to help her.
-Linda F.You are truly a pathetic person – I feel very sorry for you because you have nothing to believe in except your own empty life. I know you don't want it, but I will pray for you.
-LuAnnThey probably would have been praised if the verse was from Mao or the Koran!
-daveThe school teachers should fear God, not Obama. What will they say to God when they encounter Him?
-NormaGod, you're a great deity and all, and I'ma let you finish…but ZEUS was the greatest deity of ALL TIME!
-Atheist@Atheist:
Classic!! Too funny…
-jatheistI would go after the school also because it's actions are ridiculous.
However, this evangelical heretic soul saving proselytizing is just a waste of time.
-JackJesus Himself commanded His followers to share the Gospel with others. Or haven't you read Mark 16?
Do you even know what the word "heretic" means? These students are not heretics! They are doing what Jesus commanded. You are just as guilty of persecuting them as the school administrators, because you are judging them and condemning them for doing what Jesus told Christians to do!
-Linda F.And sharing the Gospel is NEVER a waste of time! It's not up to us to save people. Our job is to do what Jesus told us to do: share the Gospel with others. God will take care of the rest.
Now, leave the students alone! They have the courage and love that unfortunately, some people do not possess; whether they be believers or non-believers. Just give them a break already!
-Linda F.When I was in school the Gideons came and passed out copied of the New Testament to all the students. No one seemed to mind. No one had to read them unless they wanted to.
-PatriciaGideons still may distribute testaments to school children but the new policy is to do it from the public sidewalks. Legally Gideons can still be invited into te public schools to distribute testaments however, schools often do not want to spend the money fighting legal battles.
-leeOne argument against in school distributions is that cults may also distribute literature and that may be offensive to Christians, especially parents. Sidewalk distribution has already been tested in courts as being a right.
I can tell you this: if I were a student, and if a cult member attempted to give me literature that would offend me, I would merely tell them, "No, thank you," and walk away. I wouldn't attempt to stifle their First Amendment rights.
This is coming from someone whose family was frequently approached by Jehovah's Witnesses. We just told them, "No, thank you. We're not interested." They took our rejection well, and eventually left us alone.
-Linda F.Boy the heathen reprobates panic at the mention of The Name Of The Lord
Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him (Christ), and given him a name which is above every name:
-MGM46Leviticus 19:18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD
-AgnosticIf you do not believe; your using scripture is rather void. As below "God – breathed" so .. no God.. no "breath" word does not exist;… to you page is empty.
-cut2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Jesus is coming. Laus Deo..
Please re-read the definition of Agnosticism.
In the popular sense, an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in God, whereas an atheist disbelieves in God. In the strict sense, however, agnosticism is the view that human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify knowledge that God exists or does not.
There are also many varieties of Agnosticism as there are many varieties of Christianity.
-AgnosticThere is no in-between when it comes to the belief or disbelief in the existence of God. Either you believe in God's existence, or you don't. You don't.
-Linda F.I agree. There is no point in non-believers attempting to use Scriptures against us, since they don't even believe in the authority of the Scriptures. If anything, it makes them hypocrites. Why attempt to use, as a weapon, something that you believe is powerless?
-Linda F.It does not make us hypocrites at all. We are pointing out that the verses in the bible that you claim come from god are nothing of the sort.
-Jeff DixonAccording to your OPINION, Jeff.
Fortunately, your OPINION does not affect my faith … or the existence of God.
-Linda F.Well, I guess Satan has some new friends to work his betting…the Roswell school officials. And they don't even know it. Satan has been having a blast for the last [ almost three years ]…from the white house on down. How he must hate it that kids are standing up against him and instead standing with God. Well, I for one am proud of each and every one of them. The ones causing the trouble are in trouble with God already if they don't turn around and do what's right. Without a doubt, God is watching every little thing they're doing and I'm sure a check mark is going beside their name each time they do something God does not approve of. Just because they don't see him, doesn't mean he's not there. KIDS, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK…GOD LOVES YOU AND KNOWS YOU LOVE HIM.
-jmmFor the last 3 years??! Try the last 50 years or more. That was when prayers were taken out of government schools. Bush was not an example of applying the Bible to government much more than Obama is. Bush went toward destruction slower than Obama, but he was still going in the wrong direction. Both would be an abomination to our founders. Bush said that Muslims and Christians have the same God. He also called Islam a religion of peace as Obama does. Bush's administration had more open homosexuals in it than all other prior administrations combined. Obama is just a more extreme version of what Bush was doing.
-Bob Pegram"Bush's administration had more open homosexuals in it than all other prior administrations combined."
I think Obama is working on beating that record.
-Linda F.I want to tell the students that I'm proud of them, you went out of your way to show the love of God. I would bet had you done the same thing but put homosexual pamplets in there everything would have been fine. You kick God out of the Schools and the devils stands high.
-Slacker1965At this point, I believe that ANYTHING would have been accepted by the school administrators. Anything, that is, except the Christian viewpoint.
-Linda F.Is it any wonder our children come out of the government school system warped, demented and uneducated? This, at the cost of over $14,000 per year per child. It is so time to stop this insanity.
-dntmkmecmovrtherThe only answer is for Christians to form their own schools or home school. But these endeavors have been uphill battles for the simple reason that the “humanists” have already arranged that their schools are funded by law with tax payer money and children are required to attend. They have also arranged that our money loses value everyday through the Fed and the tax code.
-John BarbourIf you're paying taxes for a local school and you feel that your children are REQUIRED to attend because of this, then that is your decision.
-AtheistChildren are not required to attend public school if they are attending an alternative school. take them out of public school. If it's important enough for parents they can and will do it. We know it can be done. I guess it depends on your priorities.
-barbiebunsI think more and more Christian churches should do what the church that I go to has done: create a home school co-op. The way I understand it, the way my church's co-op works is: parents sign their children up, paying a small fee. The teachers are all volunteers, and the students come in to learn general subjects (math, reading, writing, science, history, and etiquette) in a Christian environment. I'd volunteer, if I had the gift of teaching.
-Linda F.I would venture to say that all the problems from Abortion to no-win wars – to massive debt based on fiat currency – to entangling alliances with the UN and other freedom zapping measures – to environmentalism – to terrorism – to crime and drugs abuse and sexual promiscuity and most all social and political ills that this country faces stem from these two simple facts. 1. Give me control of a child’s education and I will control the future. 2. Give me control of the money and I don’t care who writes the laws.
-John BarbourHave we become so weak that we have to get permission to share God’s word from the ACLU? Or is this nations leaders so afraid of the son of God That they will stop at nothing go keep the truth hidden. We have ungodly people in this administrator ungodly people do ungodly things. However we don’t have to give into them I heard a statement by a homosexual pair assuring others that God who is love will not send them to hell because of what they call there acts of true love. News FLASH GOD HAS NEVER SENT ANYONE TO HELL not yet we were all with free will the choices you make in this life determine where your spirit spends eternity. Not some politicians who want to destroy a godly people. There are options other than the government school system check into it may God have mercy on all of us. Fight the good fight stay the paths of old
-viperI wonder if they got the idea for the donuts from this story;
Don’t Leave It On The Desk –
There was a certain Professor of Religion named Dr. Christianson, a studious man who taught at a small college in the western United States. Dr. Christianson taught the required survey course in Christianity at this particular institution. Every student was required to take this course their freshman year, regardless of his or her major.
Although Dr. Christianson tried hard to communicate the essence of the gospel in his class, he found that most of his students looked upon the course as nothing but required drudgery. Despite his best efforts, most students refused to take Christianity seriously.
This year, Dr. Christianson had a special student named Steve. Steve was only a freshman, but was studying with the intent of going onto seminary for the ministry. Steve was popular, he was well liked, and he was an imposing physical specimen. He was now the starting center on the school football team and was the best student in the professor’s class.
One day, Dr. Christianson asked Steve to stay after class so he could talk with him. “How many push-ups can you do?”
Steve said, “I do about 200 every night.”
“200? That’s pretty good, Steve,” Dr. Christianson said. “Do you think you could do 300?”
Steve replied, “I don’t know… I’ve never done 300 at a time.”
“Do you think you could?” again asked Dr. Christianson.
“Well, I can try,” said Steve.
“Can you do 300 in sets of 10? I have a class project in mind and I need you to do about 300 push-ups in sets of ten for this to work. Can you do it? I need you to tell me you can do it,” said the professor.
Steve said, “Well… I think I can… yeah, I can do it.”
Dr. Christianson said, “Good! I need you to do this on Friday. Let me explain what I have in mind.”
Friday came and Steve got to class early and sat in the front of the room. When class started, the professor pulled out a big box of donuts. These weren’t the normal kinds of donuts. They were the extra fancy BIG kind, with cream centers and frosting swirls. Everyone was pretty excited it was Friday, the last class of the day and they were going to get an early start on the weekend with a party in Dr. Christianson’s class.
Dr. Christianson went to the first girl in the first row and asked, “Cynthia, do you want to have one of these donuts?”
Cynthia said, “Yes.”
Dr. Christianson then turned to Steve and asked, “Steve, would you do ten push-ups so that Cynthia can have a donut?”
“Sure!” Steve jumped down from his desk to do a quick ten. Then Steve again sat in his desk. Dr. Christianson put a donut on Cynthia’s desk.
Dr. Christianson then went to Joe, the next person, and asked, “Joe, do you want a donut?”
Joe said, “Yes.”
Dr. Christianson asked, “Steve would you do ten push-ups so Joe can have a donut?”
Steve did ten push-ups, Joe got a donut. And so it went, down the first aisle, Steve did ten push-ups for every person before they got their donut.
Walking down the second aisle, Dr. Christianson came to Scott. Scott was on the basketball team and in as good condition as Steve. He was very popular and never lacking for female companionship. The professor asked, “Scott do you want a donut?”
Scott’s reply was, “Well, can I do my own push-ups?”
Dr. Christianson said, “No, Steve has to do them.”
Then Scott said, “Well, I don’t want one then.”
Dr. Christianson shrugged and then turned to Steve and asked, “Steve, would you do ten push-ups so Scott can have a donut he doesn’t want?”
With perfect obedience Steve started to do ten push-ups.
Scott said, “HEY! I said I didn’t want one!”
Dr. Christianson said, “Look, this is my classroom, my class, my desks and these are my donuts. Just leave it on the desk if you don’t want it.” And he put a donut on Scott’s desk.
By this time, Steve had begun to slow down a little. He just stayed on the floor between sets because it took too much effort to be getting up and down. You could start to see a little perspiration coming out around his brow.
Dr. Christianson started down the third row. Now the students were beginning to get a little angry. Dr. Christianson asked Jenny, “Jenny, do you want a donut?”
Sternly, Jenny said, “No.”
Then Dr. Christianson asked Steve, “Steve, would you do ten more push-ups so Jenny can have a donut that she doesn’t want?”
Steve did ten. Jenny got a donut.
By now, a growing sense of uneasiness filled the room. The students were beginning to say, “No!” and there were all these uneaten donuts on the desks.
Steve had to really put forth a lot of extra effort to get these push-ups done for each donut. There began to be a small pool of sweat on the floor beneath his face, his arms and brow were beginning to get red because of the physical effort involved.
Dr. Christianson asked Robert, who was the most vocal unbeliever in the class, to watch Steve do each push up to make sure he did the full ten push-ups in a set because he couldn’t bear to watch all of Steve’s work for all of those uneaten donuts. He sent Robert over to where Steve was so Robert could count the set and watch Steve closely.
Dr. Christianson started down the fourth row. During his class, however, some students from other classes had wandered in and sat down on the steps along the radiators that ran down the sides of the room. When the professor realized this, he did a quick count and saw that now there were 34 students in the room. He started to worry if Steve would be able to make it.
Dr. Christianson went on to the next person and the next and the next. Near the end of that row, Steve was really having a rough time. He was taking a lot more time to complete each set.
Steve asked Dr. Christianson, “Do I have to make my nose touch on each one?”
Dr. Christianson thought for a moment, “Well, they’re your push-ups. You can do them any way that you want.” And Dr. Christianson went on.
A few moments later, Jason, a recent transfer student, came to the room and was about to come in when all the students yelled in one voice, “NO! Don’t come in! Stay out!”
Jason didn’t know what was going on. Steve picked up his head and said, “No, let him come.”
Dr. Christianson said, “You realize that if Jason comes in you will have to do ten push-ups for him?”
Steve said, “Yes, let him come in. Give him a donut.”
Dr. Christianson said, “Okay, Steve, I’ll let you get Jason’s out of the way right now. Jason, do you want a donut?”
Jason, new to the room, hardly knew what was going on. “Yes,” he said, “give me a donut.”
“Steve, will you do ten push-ups so that Jason can have a donut?”
Steve did ten push-ups very slowly and with great effort. Jason, bewildered, was handed a donut and sat down. Dr Christianson finished the fourth row, and then started on those visitors seated by the heaters. Steve’s arms were now shaking with each push-up in a struggle to lift himself against the force of gravity. By this time sweat was profusely dropping off of his face, there was no sound except his heavy breathing. There was not a dry eye in the room.
The very last two students in the room were two young women, both cheerleaders and very popular. Dr. Christianson went to Linda, the second to last, and asked, “Linda, do you want a doughnut?”
Linda said, very sadly, “No, thank you.”
Professor Christianson quietly asked, “Steve, would you do ten push-ups so that Linda can have a donut she doesn’t want?”
Grunting from the effort, Steve did ten very slow push-ups for Linda.
Then Dr. Christianson turned to the last girl, Susan and said, “’Susan, do you want a donut?”
Susan, with tears flowing down her face, began to cry. “Dr. Christianson, can I help him?”
Dr Christianson, with tears of his own, said, “No, Steve has to do it alone. I have given him this task and he is in charge of seeing that everyone has an opportunity for a donut whether they want it or not. When I decided to have a party this last day of class, I looked at my grade book. Steve here is the only student with a perfect grade. Everyone else has failed a test, skipped class or offered me inferior work. Steve told me that in football practice, when a player messes up he must do push-ups. I told Steve that none of you could come to my party unless he paid the price by doing your push-ups. He and I made a deal for your sakes.”
“Steve, would you do ten push-ups so Susan can have a donut?”
As Steve very slowly finished his last push-up, with the understanding that he had accomplished all that was required of him, having done 350 push-ups, his arms buckled beneath him and he fell to the floor.
Dr. Christianson turned to the room and said, “And so it was, that our Savior, Jesus Christ, on the cross, said to the Father, ‘Into thy hands I commend my spirit.’ With the understanding that Jesus had done everything that was required of him, he yielded up his life. And like some of those in this room, many of us leave the gift on the desk, uneaten.”
Two students helped Steve up off the floor and to a seat, physically exhausted, but wearing a thin smile. “Well done, good and faithful servant,” said the professor, adding, “Not all sermons are preached in words.”
Turning to his class, the professor said, “My wish is that you might understand and fully comprehend all the riches of grace and mercy that have been given to you through the sacrifice of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. God spared not his only begotten son, but gave him up for us all, for the whole Church, now and forever. Whether or not we choose to accept God’s gift to us, the price has been paid.”
Wouldn’t you be foolish and ungrateful to leave it lying on the desk?
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only
Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have
eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world
to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
John 3:16-17
-SighManJestaWhat a beautiful illustration of God's love for us, and Jesus' sacrifice for us.
-CarlAn imaginary example of a story to explain an imaginary occurance from the bible. Seems about right.
-Jeff DixonThat was shortly before the professor was put on unpaid leave for proselytizing in a public school, as I recall, as well as feeding children Trans-fatty acids. Hard to decide which is worse, actually…
-AtheistNow we have children going to college!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!dah
-Pastor DwayneOne of the most beautiful explanations of what Christ, the Atonement and the Gospel is all about. Thank you 4 sharing. I will be "passing it on". Even though many are still leaving their donuts on their desk, they have not been forgotten. They are still loved by their Father in Heaven and his Son, Jesus Christ. May we all wake up and see His light.
-pat-williamsburgThe Professor did his students a great favor in making the offer of the Gospel so graphic (or so material). They then had no excuse. However, Jesus said, All the Father has given Me, I will not lose one." John 6:37 In other words, Jesus paid the price for those who would be saved throughout history. His death on the cross was effective (or will be) for all it was intended for. Also, "No man seeks after God, no not one." Romans 3:11, etc., etc. Even faith is a gift from God. Without that gift among many, we would run from God. We would not want it, if left on our own. God is sovereign in all, even our choice to follow Him – or not. He hated Esau before Esau was born. God can make some vessels (humans) for honor and some for dishonor – and He does.
-Bob PegramBeing politically correct under this administration will not keep your name in the Lambs book of life
-viperWhat has happened to the citizens of this country? They are the ones that support the schools, hire and pay teachers and board members, so why don't they get rid of them when the do something like this. The individual, or individuals, that made the decision to punish the students should be ran out of the neighborhood. Sooner or later we must take back control of our own government, and it had better be sooner. Its hard to believe that someone like Obama, a man who wants to destroy our form of government, has so many followers. A majority of the mass media, most of the entertainment industry, and many of the private citizens, seem willing to help him take away their freedom and independence.
-LloydThey are not true citizens of this Country it's just a piece of paper that saids they are. Who they really are, are Anti- Americans that will do anything to tare our beautiful Country down.
-LauraIt's now time to teach the kids in that class how to file a lawsuit and debate the merits of their case. It would be a good civics class and a lesson not taught and lived out often enough: that of standing up for one's rights amongst a society bent on destroying those rights.
-dntmkmecmovrtherThe statutes clearly state that "Unwelcome attempts by individuals or groups of students to impose religious beliefs or
-Atheistconvert others to religious beliefs or to non-belief are not permitted in school related activities." These children broke the rules KNOWINGLY and received punishment. Good on the school officials for being consistent!
But Christians think that the rules don't apply to them, or that they have a different set of rules… they expect special treatment and when they don't get it they scream "persecution!!". It's really pathetic…
-jatheistAs a friend just pointed out to me, these are the same people who would scream bloody murder and say that the town officials should not be allowing the Westboro Baptist Church to picket a War Hero's funeral.
-AtheistI'm one of those people who does not believe that the Westboro CULT should be allowed to picket a war hero's funeral. Why? Because their words are words of hatred, and NO ONE should be allowed to picket a person's funeral. They should leave the mourners in peace.
There is no comparison between what the students did (which was an act of LOVE and COMPASSION) and what the Westboro cult does at funerals (which is an act of HATRED). NO comparison, whatsoever!
The argument that you presented is a massive FAIL!
-Linda F.You have sadly mixed up what people SHOULD do with what they CAN do. Read your constitution, learn a little bit, then come back here to join the conversation. I'll wait.
-AtheistWhy wait? My response will be the same.
-Linda F.Doesn't the fact that these nutcases are protesting funerals, fall under the category of harassment? I think it should, if it doesn't already. It takes a sick, twisted, evil person to protest a funeral.
-Linda F.As do those who don't want to celebrate Mother's Day or Father's Day because both parents are the same gender. As do those who don't want their children to get failing grades even when they deserve it. They scream "persecution" just as loudly. It's really pathetic…
-MereObserverEr, is handing out free doughnuts a school activity? Really? Giving a gift to your teacher is a school activity? I'd like to see where that's written. And how is this any more unwelcome than teaching evolution to students who strongly oppose it? You can't have it both ways, unless hypocrisy is another subject taught in school. Just a thought.
-MereObserverMereObserver wrote: "how is this any more unwelcome than teaching evolution to students who strongly oppose it?"
It might not be more "unwelcome", but a students welcomeness to an idea doesn't change the curriculum. Evolution is science – it's the cornerstone of modern biology – and should be taught in science class whether the students "welcome" it or not.
-jatheistAnd belief in God (of some kind) is the cornerstone of America's founding (check all the references to "Creator," God, etc. in the founding documents and correspondence), and should be allowed to be discussed privately by students even if they're in a school setting – as long as they don't disrupt class. That would be wrong, for sure. As for the doughnut thing, I don't think they were disrupting anything, even if their way of expressing themselves was somewhat over the top. But then, teachers, students, everyone, have "unwelcome" things thrust at them via the internet, the media, television (okay, that's part of the media – sorry) daily, like suggestive advertising, the increased usage of profanity, etc., so I think we all just need to relax. This is life. Those kids may have gone a tad too far in terms of the privacy of others, but to make a huge deal out of it is silly. Both Christians and non-Christians should stop getting so up-in-arms over things like this. I really believe there's so much frustration in this country about other issues, that people are spoiling for a fight at the proverbial drop of a hat, and will contradict their "Christian" beliefs and attitudes by living in attack-mode. On the other side, it seems those of a non-Christian (or less fanatical version of it) leaning get offended way too quickly. I don't like the "can't we all just get along" crap, but heck, let's at least respect other's right to believe something different without biting their faces off. As far as the Roswell students go, I think as a teacher or administrator I would have gotten them all together and said, "Hey, guys, thanks for the delicious treat, but could you please leave the bible verses out of it next time? Because if your motivation for going to all that trouble was purely altruistic and being good, giving, generous Christians, the verses won't really be necessary and there will, indeed, be a next time, yes? Besides, doesn't your bible teach that the best way to show who you are is by what you do in terms of behavior? All right. Enough said. Get to class, and please don't do something like that again." Or some such thing. Whatever. As far as evolution goes, it was never meant to be taken as a fact, hence the term "theory," and as such, is only one springboard for modern biology, not its cornerstone (I studied biology and genetics to get my Bachelor of Science). Lots of other research (in addition to the theory of evolution) and solidly provable facts have brought biology to where it is today. When I was younger, oh, about eight thousand years ago, evolution was taught as only part of the whole picture, something to speculate on and think about, not base everything else in biology on. Then again, evolution within the species is an unquestionable reality, even if evolution between species is not. That's the theory part.
Sigh. Thanks for listening.
-MereObserverThis country was also founded (and some would say, made great) with the strict and implicit approval of the institution of slavery. (as it was written in the prophecy, don'tcha know) You'll just have to accept it, folks. This is NOT a Christian country, despite what the founding fathers of 200+ years ago may have thrown in for good measure in order to make their points universally appealing to a fairly fundamentalist society.
-AtheistIf you really studied science in school, you would know that a theory is the foundation of a scientific idea. A theory is the highest level an idea can acheive. Just as there is also germ theory, atomic theory and the theory of gravity, which are also the foundations of those ideas. A theory has passed every test. it is not a law, because no theory ever becomes a law, but it is the cornerstone. Where did you get your education?
-Jeff DixonSo I guess the term, "Law of Gravity" was a joke-term made up by some fool professor in a university? And no, every theory has not passed every test, or many would, in fact, have become a law. And an "idea," which comes from a Greek word essentially meaning "one's own," can achieve as high a level as you want it to, but that doesn't make it either fact or law. Germ and atomic theory are still called that because we have not yet mastered quantum mechanics nor nano-science. There are still proofs to be passed in both of these. But neither fall into the same category as evolution, the one theory with the least amount of proof and which even its author eventually questioned. None of which has a darned thing to do with scripture-laced doughnuts; I don't have to be a top-notch scientist to have in intelligent opinion on that topic, and we only went off on this tangent over the whole issue of forcing belief in something on those who believe differently. Which makes me wonder why you've changed the subject into a personal attack…well, maybe not an attack, per se, but certainly a rude question. I also have a Masters degree, but it's in music, so I don't claim any kinship to the other sciences with that one. Wanna debate music? [giggles a little madly and skips off in search of more coffee]
-MereObserverMere wrote: "…every theory has not passed every test, or many would, in fact, have become a law."
There is simply no way that you have a decent science education. None. Your ignorant statement regarding laws and theory makes that clear.
A "theory" ~never~ becomes a "law", a "theory" ~explains~ laws… and as soon as a theory fails a test it is either discarded for a better theory or the theory is adjusted to explain the failed test. Evolution, gravity, atomic and germ theory have ~all~ passed every test ever applied to them.
-jatheistIt is not a personal attack at all. I am merely pointing out that you do not understand science.
In the language of science, the word "law" describes an analytic statement. It gives us a formula that tells us what things will do. For example, Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation tells us that "Every point mass attracts every single point mass by a force pointing along the line intersecting both points. The force is directly proportional to the product of the two masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the point masses." That formula will let us calculate the gravitational pull between the Earth and the object you dropped, between the Sun and Mars, or between me and a bowl of ice cream.
-Jeff DixonWe can use Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation to calculate how strong the gravitational pull is between the Earth and the object you dropped, which would let us calculate its acceleration as it falls, how long it will take to hit the ground, how fast it would be going at impact, how much energy it will take to pick it up again, etc.
While the law lets us calculate quite a bit about what happens, notice that it does not tell us anything about why it happens. That is what theories are for. In the language of science, the word "theory" is used to describe an explanation of why and how things happen. For gravity, we use Einstein's Theory of General Relativity to explain why things fall.
-Jeff DixonA theory starts as a hypothesis, an untested idea about why something happens. For example, I might propose a hypothesis that the object that you released fell because it was pulled by the Earth's magnetic field. Once we started testing, it would not take long to find out that my hypothesis was not supported by the evidence. Non-magnetic objects fall at the same rate as magnetic objects. Because it was not supported by the evidence, my hypothesis does not gain the status of being a theory. To become a scientific theory, an idea must be thoroughly tested, and must be an accurate and predictive description of the natural world.
-Jeff Dixon"Evolution is the cornerstone of modern biology"? Really? So all that I've been taught about information in DNA is garbage?
-onemomThe discovery of DNA and everything we're learned about DNA since that time ~supports~ evolution. DNA is simply ~more~ evidence supporting evolution. DNA doesn't make sense ~without~ evolution.
Regarding the "information" you've learned about – I have no idea what you're talking about…
-jatheistPossibly. It depends on what you have been taught. You do not elaborate, so it is difficult to say. However, if you believe information such is posted at AIG, then yes, you have been taught garbage.
-Jeff Dixon"This country was also founded (and some would say, made great) with the strict and implicit approval of the institution of slavery." I think the only ones who would ever say, "made great" are members of the KKK. As for the rest of that comment, you might want to dig a little deeper into our history. The original version of the Declaration of Independence contained a phrase that would have abolished slavery right then and there, but South Carolina, for one, wouldn't sign it unless those words were removed. In the interest of freeing the colonies as expeditiously as possible, it was agreed that the clause would be taken out, but that the issue would be dealt with later, once we had established our independence. Those who approved of the institution of slavery were not in the majority, but sadly, they were also financially and politically powerful entities, and so held sway. Incidentally, the words "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" were not original either. The phrase was "life, liberty, and the pursuit of property." Benjamin Franklin and others changed it when they realized that unscrupulous slave-owners would use that as an excuse to make slavery a permanent condition (by claiming their slaves were their property), altering the wording to "pursuit of happiness" so that slavery could, in fact, be abolished one day. So to say there was strict and implicit approval of slavery by our founders, is to be either ignorant of what was happening at the time, or just dishonest. I tend to think ignorance is really behind that statement, since I don't know you and have no right whatsoever to accuse you of dishonesty. I would say, rather, that you are simply stating what you believe to be true.
-MereObserverSince the exclusion WAS made, it made for implicit approval of Slavery. Sorry, but when you think about it, they made that exclusion and condemned thousands of Africans to lives of imprisonment and death so that they wouldn't have to pay taxes without representation (to a country that CONDEMNED slavery, ironically) This is hardly the fabled "high road" that we all hear, time and time again, that "God fearing Christians" travel. Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were chief among the offenders, so PLEASE. Save us the tired line about the "Christian Based" country and stop embarrassing yourselves.
-AtheistOh, stop generalizing, you silly poop! First, we are not a "Christian Based" country, but a country founded on Judeo-Christian principle. Huge difference there. See, if we were strictly "Christian based," there would probably be NO freedom of religion (if some of the fanatical attitudes of many fundamentalist Christians are any indication – and aw, crap, now THEY'RE gonna come after me, too…). Again, the exclusion was made as a kind of lesser of two evils. They felt it was more important to get the country started first, and then work out the problems. Another thing – no one (with any sanity) ever said American was perfect. Slavery was only one of many very human foibles that characterize our entire history (like the treatment of Native Americans). Yet people from all over the globe have and continue to want to live here. Why is that? And that phrase "high road" was never used by those who were trying to set this country in motion. Those guys were too busy trying to survive to get all hoity-toity with their self-descriptions, so the phrase is only "fabled" in the limited thinking of those who coined it long after the fact. Finally, since I've never used that "tired line about the 'Christian Based' country," I haven't embarrassed myself, nor am I in the least embarrassed about my simple observations. They may occasionally be wrong, but so are everyone else's from time to time, and therefore nothing to feel bad about.
-MereObserverLOL…Silly poop…touche! I didn't mean to say that you should be embarrassed, your reply was very thoughtful…I do mean the fundamentalists. I think Religion has done more to harm people than disease or environmental disaster…because it was welcomed in.
-AtheistSadly, you're absolutely right about that. I really, really, really dislike religion, especially, as you pointed out, its insidious nature.
-MereObserverI have to say that the attitude of certain atheists on this board isn't helping things either. I've seen enough hatred from certain atheists on this website to last me a lifetime.
-Linda F.To the person who gave my previous comment a "thumbs down" : What's wrong? Can't handle the truth? Can't face the fact that there are certain atheists on this board (more specifically, Chris P.) who are filled with hatred? Dislike my comment all you want. It doesn't change the truth.
-Linda F.Please enlighten us as to these specific Judeo-Christian principles, as I am sure they would not be found in any other non-Christian society before,
-Jeff DixonOh, please, darlin', these principles are found in many places, and I'd be a complete idiot to claim otherwise. But that doesn't negate their influence here. That kind of distraction-from-the-point argument doesn't work with me. The specific principles, my argumentative friend, are the Ten Commandments, and the basic belief in a universe organized by something intelligent. That's all. Nothing more complicated or theosophic than that. Wait. Theosophic? Is that the right word? Blah. Whatever. I think you know what I mean. The reason we call them Judeo-Christian isn't because non-Christians weren't able to come up with the same values (and, er, Biblical Christians were actually Jews who believed that the Messiah had finally come along), but because "Judeo-Christian" is a convenient, familiar term. Again, nothing complicated going on here. I don't know why you're angry with me; like you, I'm just expressing my opinions, which don't have to mean anything to anyone else to be what helps my world make sense to me every day.
-MereObserverHowever, that shows your claim that that they are Judeo-Christian principles is wrong.
-Jeff DixonUltimately ,,,, and give account for their politically correct consistency to MANS laws!!
-Pastor Dwaynefor those who don't know it ,,and whether they say it doesn't exist or not,,, man will stand before Jesus and give account of his politically correctness of man made (((unborn againESS}}} laws, strange just the way the Word of God said it would in the VERY last days!!!
-Pastor DwaynePeople have been saying we are in the VERY last days for 2,000 years. They have always been wrong. They will continue to be wrong.
-Jeff DixonOne of these days, Jeff, your arrogance is going to come back to bite you.
Unfortunately.
-Linda F.Not by any aspect of a myth.
-Jeff DixonWhat statute are you talking about for COL? The First Amendment guarantees them Freedom of Speech whether you like it or not. Children do not leave their beliefs at the school house gate. The Supreme Court has said so. End of Story.
-barbiebunsThe Freedom of Speech is not an absolute right. This has been shown by the example of not being allowed to shout fire in a crowded theather. Neither can a child disrupt a school with their speech. And that is true whether you can understand it or not.
-Jeff DixonSo giving a teacher a donut with a Bible verse attached is equavalent to shouting "Fire!" ?
The teacher gets to spout his humanist religious views all day and the student gets in trouble for a Bible verse on a piece of paper?
-onemomUnfortunately, onemom, this world is getting nuttier every minute. I just read an article that said that a man who called for the assassination of then-presidential candidate Barack Obama, cannot be charged as a criminal because said call for assassination is protected by the First Amendment. (Read up on United States v. Bagdasarian for the history of this case.)
And yet, students are not allowed to practice their First Amendment rights by sharing their faith – even when doing so results in the prevention of a young girl's suicide.
THIS is the world we live in. :/
-Linda F.Can you post a link to that story? I have always understood that threats against the Preisdent were criminal offenses.
-Jeff DixonGo to news.google.com and type in United States v. Bagdasarian.
-Linda F.I did not say they were the same. I was pointing out that there is not an absolute right to free speech.
-Jeff DixonOk, lets get down to the real situation. Now we know what happened years ago around Roswell. The aliens from Area 51 were integrated into the general population and are now running the Roswell Independent School System!
-GordonI can envision it now…
TEACHER (munching on glazed doughnut): Mmm. Yummy dough…wait. What's this? A BIBLE VERSE! Why that's – that's – dang, this doughnut is good. As soon as I finish eating it, I'm gonna have a talk with those horrible students! Yummy….
ADMINISTRATOR: What kind did you get – glazed? What'd you say? A bible verse? Where? Ah. Huh. Well, we can't have….oooh, you're right. These are delicious! [chomps contentedly for a few minutes]. Well, we need to punish those creepy kids. Ha. Maybe we should demand more doughnuts! Er, without the bible verses, of course…
Good grief! You know, the Constitution states, "Congress shall make no law…" So I guess the schools are doing that now. But you know, nowhere does it say that citizens can't speak about God or the Bible, or that they can't do it in a public place like a school or courthouse. Besides, talking about the Bible isn't the same as making a law, and it IS freedom of speech in its most basic form. And as everyone knows (or should at this point), the words "separation of church and state" exist NOWHERE in any of our founding documents, but is a phrase taken out of context from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a private citizen.
Well, I guess those crazy Roswell people can talk about aliens all day long, even without the benefit of a decent doughnut; maybe if they considered God to be an alien (hey, He IS a different life-form), they'd let the kids talk about Him, too. Just a thought.
-MereObserverIts time to go to the ACLJ and Liberty Counsel for the religious bigots.
-karenYes, the ACLJ and Liberty Coucil is winning these cases because they are following the law. The Supreme Court has spoken. There may be those who may not like it but that is their ruling.
-barbiebunsLet the religious bigots have their own schools AND fight the wicked.
-karenLet me guess. To you, "religious bigot" = anyone who fails to agree with your liberal, "PC" view of the world. Am I right?
Hate to break your bubble. But it is okay to disagree with liberals. In fact, it's encouraged. And I'm not going to apologize for exercising that right.
-Linda F.Teach your children yourself and you can both get a real education that glorfies God. Let the goverments schools rot on the vine. Many still need to realize that your second income isn't really getting you anywhere relative to the thieves running our civil goverment.
-gfabyanI'm curious, if these same kids were to come in with donuts bearing verses from the Qur' an, or the Tanakh, or the Pali Canon, or whatever other faith than the one you believe in, would you defend them with the same convictions?
-AgnosticSorry – just saw this one. And yes, absolutely! They have the same rights under the Constitution, which guarantees freedom of religion without specifying what that religion should be. I'd be equally furious if any one of those books, the reading of them, or the practice of their tenets, were attacked by our PC, pole-up-the-rectum school employees. You bet I would!
-MereObserverI would defend their First Amendment rights, yes.
-Linda F.The problem with that is, it is just Christan's that are being targeted. They are not even allowed to mention the name of Jesus. Do Christian's in Iran or any of the Arab countries have freedom of their faith? No, they are put to death! I love America and want it to be the way it used to be, "ONE NATION UNDER GOD WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is not that way for Christian's today.
-MadelineThis is why private schools or home schooling are the only alternatives left in the U.S. Public schools are failing our young these days.
-TomI wish you would…No one is stopping you. You make it sound like a bad thing…like something that is undesirable…sounds more like it would be an idyll second only to God's unconditional love and acceptance.
-AtheistWere are the Parents? is there a PTA? Stand up for your Kids, God Did! He sent His Son to DIE for You. You have LOVE HOPE and FAITH, now give it to Your Children. America needs You, Your Kids Need You! Stand – up P A R E N T S . God Bless America
-HaraldWhy do these school officials still have a job , it isn't enough that their goal is to dumb down students , now they have to illegally restrict their religious freedoms . Government officials are not to interfere in religion in any way , but then again these officials are too ignorant to know how to read the constitution or the bill of rights .
-BuckAnd what are you doing to make it better? How are you improving the system? Or are you just going to sit back and let someone else handle it while you complain that it isn't being done right?
-AgnosticIt isn't the activities of these Christian students that the teachers and the school board fear…
-Timothy MayStop waiting, push everyone you know to get their kids out NOW!
Support them any way you can (time, tutoring, $, help provide materials, providing a group class one day a a week, etc); you have some gift or knowledge you can share.
The SOLUTION is to:
1. Remove YOUR children from government schools (indoctrination centers) NOW! If all the Christian (and other mono-theist) parents alone removed their children, the godless American “education” system would immediately collapse. Homeschooling does not have to be expensive AT ALL, there are endless free texts online, lesson plans, and free help online; there are support groups in almost every small town, too. Buy a 10 year old math book for pennies, read real books (those published before the 1960s have better grammar and morals) and biographies. Some public libraries (now often run by socialist censors/librarians) still have well written books, if you search carefully (most are dumping or selling the classics, literally in the trash…build your library for pennies.).
We have educated our children at home for over 20 years. Most have finished with an excellent education by age 16. We have a daughter who has graduated university, who has never set foot on a campus. She tested out of most courses with a few weeks of studying and then took a some upper-level courses from her major online. It was MUCH faster and cheaper and it avoided all the socialist propaganda from the professors and the cultural moral sewer of the students. Now, if she wants to go for her Masters degree, she is older and firm in her faith and morals (less prone to negative peer pressure). I know many other families who are doing the same.
2. Join, support, and promote the “Alliance for Separation of School and State”; it has been around for years. This very old concept is a new and shocking idea for most modern Americans…promote it, discuss it, put in on a bumper sticker, write letters to the editor about it. Get the word out that the government (except maybe local) shouldn’t have any part in education in a free, non-socialist, non-communist country and that this involvement is new in (free?) America.
http://www.schoolandstate.org/
A fantastic book that is now free to read online is: “The Underground History of American Education” by John Taylor Gatto.
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/
3. Finally, repeatedly communicate to your elected representatives at all levels that you don’t want the federal government involved in education (unconstitutional), that you don’t want your money going to support public schools in any form (Pre-K through Univ.), that you believe it is the responsibility of parents (and the local communities, maybe) to educate the children, and that you believe that current American societal problems are the direct result of what has been taught in forced government schooling.
This may have no effect whatsoever, but they will at least hear it over and over. Remember, this is a new concept for politicians, too; they were indoctrinated with government approved textbooks.
Encourage everyone you know to “Get their children out!” Save America by saving the children.
-DeeAmen!
-Bob PegramIf Christ had not come there would be no United States of America. That is a fact not an opinion!
The Pilgrims came to this country to advance the kingdom of God. The New England Charter signed by King James confirms this goal: …”to advance the enlargement of Christian religion to the glory of God Almighty.”
When all the colonies had been established, they got together for the first time in 1643 and wrote these words: “whereas we all came into these parts of America with one and the same aim, namely, to advance the kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ”.
Thomas Jefferson said, “…These liberties are a gift of God”. John Adams said, “The height of the American Revolution was this: it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity”. Benjamin Franklin said, “…the longer I live the more convinced I become that God governs in the affairs of men…and have we now forgotten that powerful friend? Or have we imagined we no longer need His assistance”.
George Washington said, “Religion and morality are the twin pillars upon which government rests and “let not that man claim the title of Patriot who labors to undermine those pillars” (of religion and morality). Such a person is no patriot. He is no friend of this nation. He opposes everything this country was founded upon.
On July 9, 1774, As the Colonies was seeking God’s will as to whether they should break ties with England. George Washington made this entry in his diary: “Went to church and fasted all day”. On July 9, 1776, General George Washington issued the general order to his troops stating: “The general hopes and trust that every officer and man will endeavor so to live, and act, as becoming a Christian Soldier defending the dearest rights and liberties of this country.” Washington received no pay for serving in the American Army”
Research has determined that of the fifty-five men who met in Philadelphia in the Constitutional Convention to write the Constitution, fifty of them unquestionably were Christian and possibly fifty-two. At that time, ninety-eight percent of Americans were Protestant Christians; 1.8 percent were Catholic Christians; two tenths of one percent, were Jewish. Therefore 99.8 percent of the people in America in 1776 claimed to be Christian.
“Our laws and institutions must necessary be based upon the teaching of the redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise; our civilization and institutions are emphatically Christian”. (U.S. Supreme Court in the Trinity decision 1892)
All fifty of our states have reference to God in their Constitutions.
Let us thank God for sending His Son to die on the cross for our sins and let us thank Him for this great country of ours the United States of America.
-BillOf course it is an opinion. There is no way to determine what may have occurred if the early settlers had been of an different religion. To claim that the USA could only have been created by Christians is absurd. The early Greeks also had a Republic and their society was not based on Christianity.
-Jeff DixonTo those of you who scoff at the idea that Christians are being persecuted in the United States:
I dare you to go to Google and type the following into the box: Jennifer Keeton + Augusta State University
-Linda F.The issue here is one of professional practice. If Ms. Keeton wants to enter a profession with certain norms and requirements of professional practice, her behavior must conform to those norms. She does need to be able to act within the expectations of the school counseling profession, which is not the same as a pastoral counseling role. Also at issue here is her ability to provide competent counseling to gay men and lesbians. It is not persecution to require that someone complete a required set of studies to obtain a degree.
What other parts of science will she choose not to accept, if they conflict with her religion? Maybe she should go to a Christian counseling education program where they'll be fine with her flight away from biology and so forth. Someone that wants to be a doctor might believe they can pray to make a patient well, but if that is their belief and their intention is to incorporate that into their medical practice, they will not become an actual doctor either.
-Jeff DixonSo basically: it was okay for the university to attempt to force Miss Keeton to compromise her moral beliefs and to attend a gay pride parade. Is that what you're saying, Jeff?
Once again, you side with the persecutors of Christians. Not a surprise. Just a disappointment.
-Linda F.No, I am not saying that at all. I am saying that if she wants to attend a school that requires certain norms and requirements, she will be expected to comply with those standards. She is the one that is trying to force the school to change their requirements to accomodate her. She did not have to go to that school. There are Christian schools that will conform to her expectations.
It is not persecution to require that people complete the training that the program established.
And by the way, you are naive about your comment of sympathizing with a person without accepting their behavior. If someone comes to you and says they are having problems with telling their parents they are gay, are you going to suggest ways they can accomplish this, or tell them they need to stop being gay? Because telling them they are wrong is not sympathizing with them.
-Jeff DixonJeff: All she wants is to finish her college education so she can help others, and to be treated with respect. Those school administrators had NO RIGHT, whatsoever, to impose their beliefs on this young lady. Attempting to force her to abandon her beliefs and to embrace homosexuality has NOTHING to do with her ability to complete the course work and become a counselor.
You're right. She didn't HAVE to choose that school. But you know what? She did. And the least these school administrators could do is respect her First Amendment rights and avoid attempting to cram their liberal ideals down her throat. She attended Augusta State University to study to become a counselor. She did NOT attend the university to have liberal ideals forced upon her.
Given my past exchanges with you, I have a feeling that if she were anything other than a Christian you would be on her side. Like I said before, I'm not surprised that you would side with her persecutors. So much for the First Amendment!
I hope she wins this case. And I stand by what I said about being able to sympathize with someone and have compassion for them, even when you disagree with them. I do it all the time.
Don't bother replying, because I'm not interested in continuing this conversation. I've said all I have to say, and I stand by my comments.
-Linda F.I will reply as I see fit. You are unable to restrict MY First Amendment rights.
You see persecution in any story when the Christian does not get to do things their way. That is not persecution. That is life and dealing with the realities of the college one decided to attend.
-Jeff DixonLet us change the story slightly. A gay person decides to go to a Christian college. Part of the schools requirements is that the student sign a pledge that they will not do anything that violates the schools policies. During their senior year, a picture surfaces that shows the student at a gay pride parade. The school kicks them out. Was the school entitled to enforce it policies? All the student wanted to do was complete their education.
-Jeff DixonAnd by the way: believe it or not, it is possible to sympathize with a person WITHOUT accepting or embracing their behavior. The school administrators had no right to attempt to force Miss Keeton to abandon her beliefs. They had no right to attempt to force her to attend a gay pride parade. And they had no right to expel her because she dared to refuse to cave in to their ridiculous demands. They violated her First Amendment rights, and I'm sickened by the fact that there are people out there (including yourself) who thinks that spitting on a person's First Amendment rights is okay.
If someone attempted to force you to abandon your morals, would they have the right to do so? Or is it only acceptable when the person who is being pressured is a Christian?
-Linda F.One final comment, and then I'm stepping away from this particular thread.
Go to http://oldsite.alliancedefensefund.org/userdocs/K… to read Jennifer Keeton's formal, legal complaint against Augusta State University. The paragraph that I want everyone to read can be found on page 6, under "MISS KEETON’S COMMUNICATION OF HER BELIEFS." It is paragraph #18, and it says exactly what I've been saying all along.
I stand by my statements. Gay pride parades have nothing to do with a college curriculum, and no one has the right to force another person to attend such an event.
You can reply all you want. I just don't think you should bother, because you're not going to receive a response. I rest my case.
-Linda F.Was there a written policy by the school that forbids the distribution of literature?
-leeNot a single reply to my post.
Is anyone here willing to stand for the equal rights of any religion or is it just your own that you feel you need to speak out on?
For those that have posted hatred toward the school board and made cracks and comments about other religions:
Mark 12:31 "The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these."
Leviticus 19:18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD
I have to assume that you only follow the parts of the bible that you want to.
-AgnosticAgnostic: you need to pay closer attention. I replied to your post, and so did MereObserver. We both said that yes, we would stand up for the students' First Amendment rights if they were sharing verses that came from something other than the Bible.
Pay attention, please!
-Linda F.And if you don't believe in the authority of the Scriptures, stop attempting to use them against us. It only makes you look like a hypocrite, because you are attempting to make a weapon out of something that you believe has no power.
-Linda F.@Linda F:
Sorry that I didn't see your post. The page had not updated you entries when I began writing my reply.
As far as disbelieving:
In the popular sense, an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in God, whereas an atheist disbelieves in God. In the strict sense, however, agnosticism is the view that human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify knowledge that God exists or does not.
There are also many varieties of Agnosticism as there are many varieties of Christianity.
-AgnosticThere is no in-between when it comes to the belief or disbelief in the existence of God. Either you believe He exists, or you don't.
You don't believe.
I do believe.
-Linda F.Basically, what you are telling me is that it has to be one or the other. That there can be no middle ground. If only it was so simple.
-AgnosticThat's exactly what I'm saying. There is no such thing as middle ground when it comes to the belief in the existence of God. Either you believe, or you don't. It is very simple.
-Linda F.The teachers didn't love the students – not even for doing something kind. So you are saying the teachers should have loved the students as themselves???
What vengeance is being taken? I see only vengeance by the education establishment against kind students.
-Bob Pegram@ Linda F. :
-AgnosticSorry I did not see the other posts as the page had not updated when I was typing my reply.
A quick definition of Agnosticism:
In the popular sense, an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in God, whereas an atheist disbelieves in God. In the strict sense, however, agnosticism is the view that human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify knowledge that God exists or does not.
There are also many varieties of Agnosticism as there are many varieties of Christianity.
Actually I consider myself more of an Agnostic Deist.
There are many great Christian schools out there, people! Not catholic but Christian..teaching students about Jesus & the Bible & the real American History–not the edited History that public schools teach..Please -so many Christian schools are in danger of closing because of low enrollment—my 3 children have graduated from Christian schools & I cannot tell you what wonderful normal kids they are -never have given me any t rouble –look into it -you will NEVER regret it..Even when my husband was out of work–we kept them in the schoolthe Lord took care of us!! You cannot not afford it!!
-BarbaraTalk is cheap! Since when do we allow a small percentage of the population to set policy for the majority? If those who support this school with their tax dollars disagree, then get off your donkeys, unite and make your voice heard.
-choctawThey can teach Islam, have feet washing, a special place to pray for Muslims, and that's not Church and State! Private citizens exchanging verses from the Bible and it wrong and against the rules. What a bunch of garbage!
-RonOn many college campuses Christian students are penalized with bad grades by atheistic professors – clearly abuse of power. If a Christian professor did a similar thing to atheist students you bet he would be dismissed – rightfully so – but not eh abuse by the atheist professor. These students have no power to hire or fire these teachers – if anything they are the ones who are victims of abuse of power. They have not and indeed cannot violate the concept of "separation" of church and state.
-Gail CohenNote – something weird happened with this website – my original comments on this article were sent to the Rick Perry article – and my comments on that site were nearly sent to this article – very strange
-Gail CohenMine's gone also. Hmmm………..
-barbiebunsIf the Christans would have joined in and got off their lazy asses to help God out instead of leaving it up to God to do it all!
-StanleyTHESE SCHOOL OFFICIALS ARE THE ENEMY WITHIN………THEY ARE TAITORS…….AND THEY SHOULD BE HUNG……TILL THEIR FEET TWITCH!!!!!!!!!!~
-VINNY RUSSOThat comment is uncalled for, Vinny. These people don't need to be hung. They need to have their eyes opened to the truth.
-Linda F.Yet another Christian calling for someone to be killed. The Christian love is overwhelming.
-Jeff DixonAnd yet, strangely enough, you blatantly ignore the response that I offered to Vinny that clearly condemned what he had said.
And, as usual, you remain silent when those atheists display their hatred. But you're quick to write off all Christians because of comments made by Vinny. Very typical. And I have a pretty good idea what your excuse is going to be, since you offered it to me the last time we got into this. So you might as well not take the time to make such an excuse. I've read it all before.
I have plenty to say about the lack of love and tolerance that has been displayed by certain atheists on this website. But you know what? I refuse to write off all atheists as hate-filled and ignorant. First of all, I know better. Second of all, I'm friends with an atheist who treats me with respect even though he knows that I do not share his beliefs. He knows that I'm a Christian, and he has never once ridiculed me or attempted to silence me. And I respect him in return, because he has earned that respect.
-Linda F.They call me….TAITOR SALAD….
-AtheistI just gave you a "thumbs up" for that. I thought about making a comment about Vinny's mistake, but I didn't.
Anyone want a steak with those taitors?
-Linda F.They should have handed out verses from the koran, then they wouldn't have had any trouble. We surely have provided a nice country for our children. Want more of this? Just vote the same evil back into office.
-MadelineIT WILL TAKE a LOT more than that to stop me or fellow Christians fromsharing the gospel, and yes I realize that it will get tougher, ONLY, I am reminded of Phil 4:19…MY "GOD" shall supply all your need, according to HIS riches in glory!! So…even so come LORD JESUS!!
-HomerGOOD ILLUSTRATION, If a man can't see the TRUTH, he will be as Pilate and ask"What is TRUTH"? and then die in his sin and go to hell..PLEASE don't go, Jesus Christ really did all HE could do to give you a way out!!
-HomerSo, an all powerful god did everything he could? Therefore, he could not have done ANYTHING else? So, he has limits.
-Jeff DixonI think the lesson from the donut story is a very good one. Maybe we could get some Christian lawyers to work with us and all file suit against a government that does not let us do what we should legally be able to do. If enough Christians' filed suit, we could take our country back.
-NormaWell, agnostic – you are right. There are many "religions ' that profess to be Christian. Jesus said "Search the scripture's to see if they speak of Me" There is only One way, that way is Jesus. Religion is just a word. I also answered you before, but I am through wasting my time.
-MadelineI'm so grateful for the fact that I can receive email alerts every time someone responds to one of my posts. It makes it so much easier to ignore certain posters.
-Linda F.Has anyone thought to sue the Roswell School District for child abuse, for the one student who was FORCED to sit ISOLATED in a classroom for an entire Satuday morning, and for the rejection of the students' community service in freely giving away the donuts?!? If that punishment were meted out to a non-Christian kid for swearing at a teacher or other overt rebellious action, that school district would be sued & the kid would own the principal's car by the end of the next school day.
I say this as a mature Christian who is very anti-lawsuit. However, Paul exercised his legal rights to the fullest during his time on Earth, and thus was able to witness to Caesar & his people along the way. A lawsuit in this situation could serve to stand up for Christians & for Christ, and should be very easily to prevail in given the Roswell punishment far exceeding the "crime" of the Christian students.
-Zeke199Are the school adminisTRAITORS actually aliens from Area 51?
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF.
Are the students supposed to be the Church or the State? What a convoluted wah to dtep on someone’s freedom of religion ANYWHERE.
-liz