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hebrewscholars

Scholars seek to correct 'mistakes' in Bible

A dull-looking chart projected on the wall of a university office in Jerusalem displayed a revelation that would startle many readers of the Old Testament: The sacred text that people revered in the past was not the same one we study today.

An ancient version of one book has an extra phrase. Another appears to have been revised to retroactively insert a prophecy after the events happened.

Scholars in this out-of-the-way corner of the Hebrew University campus have been quietly at work for 53 years on one of the most ambitious projects attempted in biblical studies — publishing the authoritative edition of the Old Testament, also known as the Hebrew Bible, and tracking every single evolution of the text over centuries and millennia.

And it has evolved, despite deeply held beliefs to the contrary.

Continue reading at www.msnbc.msn.com
 
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  • http://biblia.com/bible/images/1920/Jn6.37.png?fallbackOnFailure=False Despeville

    "…on one of the most ambitious projects …"

    Yea, we know that ambition: chi ching ch ching. Even if in the long run and for the institution…

    A sample of the "revelations":

    "In another example, this one from the Book of Deuteronomy, a passage referring to commandments given by God "to you" once read "to us," a significant change in meaning."

    Gee if "you" is described in context as the recipients i.e. "us" of that context how is that changing anything? It does not at these are the revelations those people blow out of proportions to create a PR spin thatthey have discovered something really significant. It is the same gimmick used by Bert Ehrman and others who know makes lots of chi ching chi ching on massive ignorance of textual criticism and textual transmission of ancient texts so present in general audiences.

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      It is similar to when the writers of Superman comics decide to fix the internal problems of their stories. It matters little what they do, the story is a still a fable.

      • http://biblia.com/bible/images/1920/Jn6.37.png?fallbackOnFailure=False Despeville

        And you wonder that none is taking you seriously Dixon…

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          On a Christian website, that is hardly a surprise. But it does not change what I posted.

          • http://biblia.com/bible/images/1920/Jn6.37.png?fallbackOnFailure=False Despeville

            I dealt with a lot of atheists and I dare that the educated part of them would not even want to associate themselves with your childish rant making… Indeed what you post does not change the fact that you are clowning around here and elsewhere.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            You can believe what you like, it matters naught to me.

          • http://biblia.com/bible/images/1920/Jn6.37.png?fallbackOnFailure=False Despeville

            Then stop responding to what I say with your childish, urban legend type of a rant.

        • orienteer

          That's right Dixon has repeatedly written that he does not believe in absolute truth. But wait, isn't the statement that "There is no absolute truth" an absolute truth statement?

      • http://ChristianAdvisor Aristophanes

        jeff – if what we believe "matters naught" to you, why do you bother to post on this site? Seems like your posts and that statement contradict each other. Oh, wait. You are a self-proclaimed atheist. I understand the confusion (on your part) now.

  • sherry

    jeff>. you call the bible a fable? i sure hope you change your mind, its never to late… god, dosn't make mistakes, people do.

    • jatheist

      sherry wrote: "god, dosn't make mistakes, people do"

      And just where does your information about God come from? That's right, people – the same flawed and error-prone animals that you likely claimed are born into sin. Why should I believe a bunch of (unbelievable) stories told by man? You can claim the bible is inspired by God if you like, but that is a claim which is ~not~ supported by evidence…

      So you claim people make mistakes, and your knowledge of God comes from people… so what makes you think you have any of your God information correct?

      • http://biblia.com/bible/images/1920/Jn6.37.png?fallbackOnFailure=False Despeville

        "…so what makes you think you have any of your God information correct? "

        So for you GOD would not be able to providentially protect His revelation via agency of chosen men and events???
        Such a God would be only an idol and that is what you force upon your dichotomous, inconsistent and baseless assertions.

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          Your god is the same as all gods that man has dreamt up over the centuries. They are all myths and fables, trying to explain the unknown. However, each year, the unknown gets moved back alittle more. Science continues to show that the forces of nature that have always been assigned to god are nothing of the sort.

        • jatheist

          Despe wrote: "So for you GOD would not be able to providentially protect His revelation via agency of chosen men and events???"

          Not at all… I'm sure that a God could do anything it wanted.

          The problem with your assertion is that it comes without a shred of supporting evidence… it's a claim you ~want~ to be true but cannot show to be true.

          • orienteer

            Just like you have no "proof" that all life on earth evolved from non-living chemicals and a "pre-biotic" soup. It takes A LOT of faith to believe that!

      • orienteer

        SO here's your logic:

        1. People make mistakes
        2. People write books
        3.Therefore all books are mistakes

        BTW, Is your statement that people are flawed and error-prone an absolute truth? If it is then I guess there really are absolutes. If it is not, then why should anyone believe what you say/

        • jatheist

          orienteer wrote: "1. People make mistakes
          2. People write books
          3.Therefore all books are mistakes "

          Sometimes comments like that remind me how low the level of intellect is around here.

          I was replying to a religious person who claimed "god, dosn't make mistakes, people do" – which I found funny since the only way this poster heard about God was from people (who they claim make mistakes). It's not ~my~ claim, it's sherry's.

          orienteer wrote: "Is your statement that people are flawed and error-prone an absolute truth?"

          Not my statement chump… try reading for content and not preconceived notions guy…

      • Tony Sottile

        Pastor Tony;
        The evidence is that all prophecies of the Bible have come to be. What evidence do you have that the Bible is not true?

      • Mary Dietz

        People consider the source here, MSNBC, The same people who get tingles up their legs at the sound of OBAMAS VOICE..THE SAME PEOPLE WHO LIE TO THE American public everyday. The same people who claim to have journalism degrees but don't know how to report the truth!! How sad!!!! your days must be so empty without our Creator and how terrible your future looks. Be assured those of us who have a personal relationship with our Lord, will pray for you. . ps.. We will all be held accountable in the end. . For those fellow believers let us remember that the enemy uses doubt as one of his most effective tools. Mary, from Md…

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      A story about talking snakes and donkeys? The sun stopping in the sky when the sun is not even moving in the sky? A worldwide flood that could not occur let alone did not occur? Yes, it is a fable and easily shown as one.

      • http://biblia.com/bible/images/1920/Jn6.37.png?fallbackOnFailure=False Despeville

        You are a mass ignorance tube amplifier Dixon and nothing else…

        *The snake would not have to be the snake that you associate with that word given our POST Genesis epistemological reference.

        *A donkey is a creature and the Creator most assuredly by the virtue of His position and power has ability to enter His creation via any agency and use it as He wishes.

        *The Joshua Sun miracle is a literally genre and expression from that ancient time describing stopping the rotation of earth around its axis. For you to ask this imbecilic type of a question after it was explained to you countless of times further underscores that you are a clown and not a person who genuinely seeks the answers…

        *The flood did occur and could occur for you have no clue and no bassis what was in the atmosphere of earth i.e. appropriate amounts of oxygen and hydrogen.

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          I know you believe the snake to be Satan. However, that shows the absurdity of the bible. Your god commands that snakes slither on the ground and "eat dust" because of what the devil did. Therefore, snakes were completely innocent, yet your all knowing and just god makes them pay a penalty for an action they had nothing to do with.

          Of course, snakes do not eat dust either, a little fact your all knowing god was unaware of.

      • orienteer

        Yep just as much of a fable as believing that every living thing on earth from humans to pine trees evolved from non-living chemicals!!

      • Tony Sottile

        How do you know that the sun does not revolve and the flood did not occur and God can't make animals speak?

        • jatheist

          Tony asked: "How do you know that the sun does not revolve…"

          Wow… really? It sounds like you need to learn some basic physics.

          Here's a credible site with lots of information on the sun:
          http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/

          Tony cont'd: "the flood did not occur…"
          http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.htm…

          Tony cont'd: "God can't make animals speak?"

          Until you can show that any God(s) exist this question is meaningless. It's like asking 'how much do you think a new born unicorn weighs?' – until you show that unicorns exist the question is meaningless…

  • http://www.bahai-education.org MalikTous

    One of the biggest mistakes that needs to be excised from the Bible is EVERY single reference promoting homophobia. These were inserted by perverted homophobic 'edittors' and are NOT part of the original intent of the Bible. Condemnation of rapists and pædophiles is proper; condemnation of public lewdness including public display of sexual acts is reasonable; promotion of homophobia is a product of local pseudo-morality being immorally imposed on historic records and is unacceptable. I also condemn religious 'leaders' who allowed such immoral insertion just to goad people into pumping out more generations of sheeple to put money in the collection plate. I read the Bible and other religious core texts for historical value; I've chosen a faith that rejects homophobia and other abuse of fellow citizens for my own.

  • Bryan W. Carpenter

    Satan has been trying to "correct" the Bible since it was first assembled. AV 1611 KJV is the translation that has saved more souls from Hell than any other English version. I'll stick with that. I figure that satan had his finger in all "fixes."

  • http://biblia.com/bible/images/1920/Jn6.37.png?fallbackOnFailure=False Despeville

    "…Bible is EVERY single reference promoting homophobia."

    Obviously you have never read the Bible in its entirety nor do you understand it for there is no such thing in it that you assert to it.

    'These were inserted by perverted homophobic 'edittors' and are NOT part of the original intent of the Bible."

    Would you stop fantasizing? None of that ever took place and you have not a shred of any evidence to make such a bogus and ignorant claims…

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      It is no different than your bogus and ignorant claims. However, MailkTous is at least not a homophobic bigot.

      • http://biblia.com/bible/images/1920/Jn6.37.png?fallbackOnFailure=False Despeville

        Who cares of what you say Dixon. Like him you have NEVER read the Bible in its entirety nor do you understand it nor can you understand it. All you can do is cry your names on people who debunk your fallacious childish rant and massive ignorance.

  • Believer

    There is no way I could or would want to try to PROVE God to anyone who scoffs. I know God is real because of experiences I have had. No one could tell me they weren't real. I can't prove that to you and I wouldn't try as it is written not to cast my pearls before swine. So you go ahead and believe whatever it is that you believe or believe nothing since that is what you have. One day soon you too will bow before my God but it will be too late. "every knee shall bow"

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      Just as most every Muslim is convinced that Allah and the Koran is real based on their life experiences. There is no difference, all religions make the same claims.

      • http://biblia.com/bible/images/1920/Jn6.37.png?fallbackOnFailure=False Despeville

        Every student of comparative religions will know about huge differences between religions just after two months in comparative religions 101… You are in your fifties and you are ignorant as they come and you will die in your ignorance for your dumb pride prevents you from learning.

      • orienteer

        Is it absolutely true that all religions make the same claims? I though you didn't believe in absolute truth?

  • Aceituna

    A test is whether what a person writes comes true or not. The bible scores high on this test in every place where it predicts. Remember, many "predictions" in the Bible are surrounded with if you repent etc. this can be avoided. With no repentance these predictions come true, maybe not right away, but in God's time. People better take note and realize that the Bible means what it says.

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      Actually, the bible means what people want it to mean. It has always been that way, which is why there are hundreds of versions of the bible and thousands of Christians sects, all convinced they have the "right" understanding of the bible.

      • http://biblia.com/bible/images/1920/Jn6.37.png?fallbackOnFailure=False Despeville

        "the bible means what people want it to mean…"

        Only for ignorant and stubborn neophytes who refuse to learn proper hermeneutics…

        " It has always been that way,…"

        Indeed, as long as dumbness, ignorance and arrogance existed which is all the way to the fall.

        "… which is why there are hundreds of versions of the bible and thousands of Christians sects,"

        A. That is a bogus exaggeration and dumb igniorance akin to saying that there is only one Islam for example,,,

        B. This is a complete and utter Non Sequitur for even if there would be millions of "Christian sects" not only in the mind of ignorant but for real what is the bearing of that on the fact that there is am unassailable revelation of truth and that there is one, two, three,… 10 "denominations" that do teach it and do practice it while differing only in miniscule aspect of second, third and fourth level of importance? Of there is none and it does not follow but for the mind of ignorant and inconsistent that is unimportant for ignorant wants to see his slapstick of assertion and do not bother to examine it reasonably.

    • jatheist

      acetuna wrote: "A test is whether what a person writes comes true or not. The bible scores high on this test…"

      I find that it flunks this particular test… flunks it badly!

      So many contradictions it's laughable:
      http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name….

      Or
      http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mark_ball/…

  • crewchieff

    Why do people hate God and the bible and truth?? Why do athests go out of their way to read or even take part in Christian values to tear them apart??? Tell me something people, are these people so filled with self hate that they have to lash out on Christian forms???..Are their minds so filled misinformation coming from their college professors or teachers, that if they told them that the moon was green they would believe them because they have a piece of paper that says that they are supposedly smart, so they have a lot of time on their hands and they start tearing apart God's Words???…tell me something people Why??…Some things do change and some things will always remain the same, because it's meant to be that way..what is so hard about accepting that???…God's word is timeless and endless, it never changes..Why??..Because it's not supposed to

    • jatheist

      crewchieff wrote: "Why do athests go out of their way to read or even take part in Christian values to tear them apart?"

      Because your beliefs are tearing out country (and world) apart. If you enjoyed your faith in God personally and weren't actively trying to turn the USA into a theocracy you wouldn't have atheists caring about your religion… but that isn't the case here.

      Religious people are actively trying to:

      - ruin public science education
      - withold adequate sex education from teens
      - outlaw a woman's choice in pregnancy
      - outlaw medical research regarding stem-cells
      - outlaw homosexuality
      - etc….

      As long as religious people work to effect change in society (in a negative way IMO) atheists will speak out against them.

  • Jim Simoneau

    A little group of secret scholars have come together in shadowy rooms to deny the book that was carefully transcribed by hand over the millennia. The school of manuscripts from the Samaritan Pentateuch to the Nag Hammadi library have been known and seen by all, but these people, like the Jesus Seminar, seek to secretly put together their own brand of the Bible away from the open scholarship of reasonable, open and clear thinking scholars. The scroll of Isaiah discovered intact confirmed that the text of Isaiah found in our copy of the Scriptures today is the same. No reasonable student of the Bible is surprised by spurious texts that exist outside of scripture. Many false texts pretending to be the Bible have been clearly identified as not Scripture. Liberals have sought to deny texts that referred to the miraculous or prophetic because they had ruled them out as impossible, because they do not believe in miracles. Other people have sought to delete any text in the Bible that does not promote their personal choice of truth. The Word of God has survived the attacks, unbelief and subterfuge of its enemies and brought truth, light and hope to a world confused and misguided. While MSNBC might promote sketchy and hidden scholars, I will go with the clearer reality of the truth that has led millions to life and hope and light.

  • Aceituna

    We have many translations of the Bible. You probably do not realize how many! The crux of the problem lies with whether the translator is doing his best to remain true to the origional text or whether he is allowing his preconceived ideas and what has been taught to him to influence how he translates certain passages. How objective is he? That is one reason so much research is being done on finding the earliest manuscripts of portions of the Bible. The closer to the source the more likely it is what it si supposed to be. An indepth study on how our Bible has been translated through the ages would be of interest here.

  • Jack

    "It is no different than your bogus and ignorant claims. However, MailkTous is at least not a homophobic bigot. "

    You're right, he's a pervert supporting more perversity in our world.

    You and the pathetic atheists here obviously do not have much conviction in your beliefs.
    You are here to hear yourself blather, you know no one here wants anything to do with your views.

    The atheists are the biggest dopes in the mix. Since you're just a damn piece of meat why the heck should I care what you "think" or how you are treated?

    You should be very glad you are in the minority. When the majority decides the only morality is the one they make up certain things happen.

  • Grandpa Tom

    The atheist on this web site are very angry at God. The atheist do not come from generations of atheist. Their parents, and siblings are probally not atheist. The atheist on this site were probally baptised Christian, and want to erase the indelible mark that baptism left forever upon their soul. Us Christians who represent God, and his Son Jesus, together with the Holy Spirit are persucuted for Christ's sake. Thank-you Mr. Atheist, for serving as a good bad example, and showing us how Jesus too was mocked in his day by the unbelievers.

    • jatheist

      GT wrote: "Thank-you Mr. Atheist"

      You are welcome. ;)

  • Nellie Austin

    I believe maybe we should just forget the "scholars" and remember just who God is! He wrote the book; he gave Divine messages to men and they wrote as He gave them the Word(s) to write. PLEASE DO NOT MESS WITH THE LORD, THE SOVEREIGN GOD ALMIGHTY, CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE, THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH!!! Here is a notation/copy of the e-mail that I sent to friends when my brother W.A.Harward, Jr, Kannapolis, NC [wharward2@carolina.rr.com] sent it to me:

    In Christ Jesus,
    Nellie Austin
    [nrha37@yahoo.com]

    P.S. You might also note that "the anointed one" (Sean Hannity) cannot even as much as compare to this Almighty God! Who just happens to be in control no matter what "the anointed one" thinks!

  • Bill Davies

    After reading all of these posts, it is apparent that many of those who posted prior to me has forgotten that God is a God of Love, Justice and Mercy. His Grace has been extended to all of us – it is up to each individual to decide on whether or not to accept God and His precepts. God, through the Holy Spirit will guide each of us to the Bible He wishes to use.

    Although, we are commanded that a "shall not lie with a man" – we are to remember that we (just like God the Father) HATES the sin, however, we (just like God the Father) are also directed to LOVE the sinner. This is what the Bible teaches, among other things.

    If the scholars are wrong, the they have to deal with God – just as promised in the last chapter of Revelations. Referring to the judgement to come upon them for adding to or taking away from the Bible. I encourage you to check this out for yourself.

    Each one of us are commanded/directed to study the word, showing ourselves approved unto God. If you don't study the Bible, then how can you know what it says or teaches? Think about it! It would also help each of us to identify error being taught or printed and allow us to act accordlngly. So lets not acts like fools, but as wise men act.

    In Jesus Christ Name,
    Bill Davies
    billdavies2nd@bellsouth.net

  • http://biblia.com/bible/images/1920/Jn6.37.png?fallbackOnFailure=False Despeville

    "it is up to each individual to decide on whether or not to accept God and His precepts."

    Really Bill? Hmmm because you see that is not what the Bible actually teaches… Nowhere you will find that the salvation is "up to us" and our deciding… On the contrary you will find that the salvation is up to God and His deciding.

    Just one proof out of the ocean of them:

    "For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy."

    ~ Romans 9:15-16 ESV

    If you can actually exegete this in context and show that it does not say what it says then we can proceed to the next texts that will still debunk and dismiss your anthropocentric understanding of theocentric Gospel…