Can a Christian be a libertarian?
Christians in American politics have argued for years that God endorses the political agenda of Republicans or Democrats, but is there a third way to think about the relationship between God and government?
Christians from the left and the right are increasingly turning to libertarianism not because it is a “middle ground,” but because it is an entirely different way of thinking about government and power.
The core of libertarianism is the non-aggression principle: that the initiation of force against person and property is immoral, and it is in many respects a kind of political corollary to the Golden Rule. Thus, Christian libertarians think that government power should be limited, sound money and truly free markets should return, aggressive war must cease and civil liberties must be preserved. Despite objections raised by other Christians, many Christian libertarians have found a friend in Texas congressional representative, presidential candidate, and lifelong Christian Dr. Ron Paul, because he also believes in these important principles.
Libertarianism treats man’s sinful nature realistically. James Madison famously quipped that if men were angels no government would be necessary. Christian libertarians take this a step further, saying that it is precisely because men are not angels that government must have extraordinarily limited powers. God does not show favoritism nor does he give special privileges of position. Everyone is accountable to the moral law in the same way.
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Congressman Paul is a Libertarian leader and attacks many to that philosophy. However, he can be a bit two faced as an anti-pork and a leading pork getter. As the Left ignores absurdities and errors in the Oval Office, so do Libertarians ignore Paul. His concept of “if they take it, we should ask for it back.” doesn't fly in reality. But Libertinism should not be judged on the record and rhetoric of one man. Wed some of the Conservative Republican planks with those of the Libertarian and you will find a secure platform for salvaging what has been done to our Nation. If done in 2012 it may save us for 2013 and beyond. The questions beg answering: "who will blend all that is good together for the greater good of our Nation and will voters in the States send to Washington the men and women who will make a difference?"
-DanThis is an excellent article.
If there is any group within Christianity that should be the most consistent, the most vocal, the most persistent, and the most scriptural in its opposition to war and the warfare state, it is conservative Christians who look to the Bible as their sole authority. Yet, never at any time in history have so many of these Christians held such unholy opinions. The association they have with the Republican Party is unholy. The admiration they have for the military is unholy. The indifference they have toward war is unholy. The callous attitude they have toward the deaths of foreigners is unholy. The idolatry they manifest toward the state is unholy.
-davesDaves, I don't think you speak for all conservative Christians since the Bible says…
-msjallenI Chron 5:22 For many fell slain, because the war was of God and they settled in their place until the exile.
Isaiah 37:36 Then the angel of the LORD went out and struck 185,000 in the camp of the Assyrians; and when men arose early in the morning, behold, all of these were dead.
2 Samuel 22:3 My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold and my refuge; my savior, You deliver me from violence.
•This is Divine deliverance from terrorism.
Matthew 24:6 You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.
Are you trying to use the Bible to justify killing?
That is not a lesson Jesus taught.
-davesSo you don't believe the Bible?
-msjallenI believe Christ taught me that violence is something we should avoid. Just because there is war in the Bible does not mean we need war in our lives. The Bible also talks of rape and murder but we don't use it to justify those crimes.
-davesThere is no peace without military defeat of our enemies.
Luke 21:9 When you hear of wars and disturbances, do not be terrified; for these things must take place first, but the end does not follow immediately.”
Ps 144:1 Blessed be the LORD, my rock, Who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle;
2 Samuel 22:35-36 He trains my hands for battle, so that my arms can bend a bow of bronze.
"You have also given me the shield of Your salvation, and Your help makes me great.
The Lord Jesus Christ is behind the concept of war and also disciplines us with war and we are to be prepared to fight. Jesus Christ has the strength to fight terrorism and to help you as well.
-msjallenNon-Christian Americans should know that Christian enthusiasm for war and the warfare state is a perversion of Christianity, an affront to the Saviour whom Christians worship as the Prince of Peace, a violation of Scripture, contrary to the whole tenor of the New Testament, and an unfortunate demonstration of the profound ignorance many Christians have of history and their own Bible.
-davesDaves, if the Prince of Peace means we are to not have war then why did Jesus tells his disciples to buy a sword? Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them … he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
-msjallenNote that Jesus did not tell His disciples to register their swords with the government.
Jesus came as the savior for the entire human race; He will be the Prince of Peace during the Millennium but in the meantime He gives us peace of mind through the learning of Bible Doctrine through His Word.
Did he ever tell his disciples to use their swords?
-davesWhy have a sword if one is not to use it? We are also taught that the Lord helps us win battles against our enemies if He is on our side. I doubt that God is for the evil countries that want to destroy us like the Muslims. We need to be prepared to fight against them unless you want to live in slavery to them. However, if We the People don't turn back to God and learn His ways from His Word then we will be defeated. By whom, not sure right now.
-msjallenWhy have nuclear weapons if you never use them?
-davesThere will come a time when they will be used. If our enemies have them we sure better have them as well.
-msjallenI have always taught my children never to start a fight but if someone strikes first then beat the you know what out of them. The same with our country; if the enemy strikes first then be prepared to defeat them or our country will be defeated. That includes the so called innocent who will grow up being taught to hate us and kill us again.
I also find it very interesting that Paul used military terms throughout his Epistles like put on the full armor of God…
-msjallenIn the Bible there was warfare throughout the OT and there will be warfare during the Tribulation and Jesus Christ will return with His saints when the Battle of Armaggeddon will be faught by Him. Then at the end of the Millennium there will be the battle of Gog and Magog. Israel was put under the last 5th Cycle of Discipline by warfare in 70 AD. We are to be prepared for battle in our country against our enemies. If not, then we will be taken over and put into slavery. I don't believe the Lord wants that for our nation unless we deserve it.
There are a lot of horrible things in the old Testament.
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 )
-davesThere will always be war because man's sinful nature causes it. There will be no war when Jesus Christ reigns on earth during the Millennium. He is the only ruler who will be able to establish peace on earth.
-msjallenPsalm 18:33-34 (God teaches to kill in battle.)
33 He makes my feet like hinds' feet, and sets me upon my high places.
34 He teaches my hands to war (beast barracks), so that my arms can bend a bow of bronze. (The breaking of weapons is a sign of the breaking of the enemy.)
Psalm 144:1 (Hand to hand combat.)
Being happy (barbak) is the LORD, my strength (rock), Who trains my hands to hold weapons in combat, And my fingers for battle (draw the plan);
I disagree but…
Always having war and cheering for war are two very different things. As Christians, we should always oppose war and the killing of innocents.
-davesdaves, I know of no one who wants war. Yes, we are to seek peace first and be opposed to war but we are taught in God's Word to destroy our enemies in battle. Even the innocent who will grow up being taught to hate us and try to destroy our way of life. It is man's human sinful nature that causes war. If children are caught in the mist of war and are killed they will go to heaven for they have not reached the age of accountability.
-msjallenThen you must not have knowledge of Jesus when he returns as the "warrior King" to lead his army of Christian soldiers (believing saints) against ALL nations which come against Israel in war at Armageddon. God has his army of angels He has historically used to destroy those kings which came against His "chosen ones" throughout history. Suggest you might study the Scriptures considerably more and do so with the gift of spiritual discernment.
-WinstonWar is mentioned over two hundred times in the Bible. The overwhelming majority of these instances concern in some way the nation of Israel. This fact is extremely important, because the president of the United States is not God, America is not the nation of Israel, the U.S. military is not the Lord’s army, the Christian’s sword is the word of God, and the only warfare the New Testament encourages the Christian to wage is against the world, the flesh, and the devil.
-davesYou have no spiritual discernment of God's Word at all or you'd understand Jesus' Revelation to the world.
-WinstonA true libertarian exercises neither force nor fraud in relating with others, which is well within Christ's "Golden Rule". Christ spoke of all the Law being based upon love (Matt. 22:36-40), in the sense of agape, which entails not only good will, but respect. And respect entails justice. In love, offense is prohibited, defense is a duty. Yes, a Christian can be a libertarian as Christ himself practiced libertarian principles. But notice I do not say this is synonomous with the political party calling itself the Libertarian Party. Dr. Paul does not raise the dead nor does he walk on water, but he is the best candidate by far in the 2012 contest for POTUS. And yes, he is a libertarian in GOP clothing. Vote Ron Paul!
-David McElroyDo not be deceived.
-WinstonYou do have a point, in that when the whole earth follows Christ"s teachings both in dead and in their heart, then we can have such a government. Until then we need something with a little more control over our society. While I believe in a very limited government, I question if we could survive a Ron Paul type of society at this point in time. So many candidates have been blasted on flip-flopping yet four years ago Ron Paul ran as a libertarian and now as a Republican. Does anybody really know what he believes? Based on what I have heard Ron Paul say the man just scares me. (as do many of the candidates) But nobody scares me as much as Obama, so I will voice my opinion and participate in the primary, but in the end I will clearly support the GOP to get rid of Obama
-JeffRP believes in allowing same sex marriage. How is this form of libertarianism going to protect the religious freedoms of those who believe homosexuality is a sin?
-Scott ToddWhen Paul takes back the money that the federal government has already taken from the people in his state I dont see that as a contradiction.
-Ron WelkerRemember this,if you dont pay your federal taxes, men with guns will show up at your door and TAKE you away and confiscate any assets you have.
The Achilles heel of Ron Paul and the true libertarian is its failure in a strong societal moral foundation, thus we see Ron Paul voting twice to remove the age old and Constitutional ban on homosexuals serving openly in the military. Congressman Paul has boasted that he "supports" homosexuals in the military. How does "Christian Libertarian" Ron Paul justify such an abhorrently vile policy to foist service members who are not permitted to choose their associates nor complain about the per verted "lifestyle" of sodo mites which is destined to destroy the morals and discipline within the military? Perhaps Congressman Paul see this as useful in weakening the strongest military in the world as a tool to reduce American military aggression? Is he doing evil that good may come?
-IthamarGood point! Thanks
-MarlenGod gave us free will. Why do you want to take away what God gave us?
-davesThe only ones who truly had a free will in the sense you ascribe yourself were Adam and Eve… The fall happen and you are effectively denying its consequences.
-DespevilleThere is no provision in the constitution prohibiting homosexuals from serving in the military. Alleged "small government conservatives" simply want their brand of morality enforced by the government. The practical fact of the matter is that it is none of the federal government's business if homosexuals marry or serve in the military. In case you're wondering, there is no such thing as "gay marriage." Two people engaging in perverted sex and pretending it's marriage is just that, pretending. Still, it is none of the federal government's business what behavior individuals engage in. dmc
-DonIT would be perverted sex to a homophobic.
-GrandmommaKa libertarian worries about the beam in his own eye.
-poacherIt has come to my attention that Ron Paul is Anti-Israel! That is unforgivable. God almighty tells us to support Israel and if anyone is against Israel they are against God!
-Guestyou are SO SO RIGHT ! The Bible says " I will Bless those who bless thee (Israel) and I wiii CURSE those who CURSE thee". Therefore, I could NEVER vote for Ron Paul or anyone who is anti_Israel!
-Linda LouThe current state of Israel did not exist when the Bible was written. Itis highly debatable that Biblical references to Israel should just be applied to the current state of Israel, a modern state established only a little more than 60 years ago, with extensive use of terrorism involved in establishing it. The principle of non-aggression that is fundamental to libertarianism naturally leads to vociferous disagreements with the modern State of Israel as it has been very aggressive and has used force to impose its will on people outside the State in a brutally repressive manner. Biblical prophecies speak of Israel and the other nations being treated equally in the end times, which is directly in contradiction to the policies of the State of Israel. The U.S. has provided extensive aid to Israel and many of the weapons (and other equipment used in an aggressive manner) the U.S. has provided have been used an an aggressive manner. Clearly libertarianism requires opposition to that.
-Bill SamuelThank you Bill for making that point. It needs to be said.
-SusanIsrael DID exist when the Bible was written! It was split into two kingdoms. Israel was one and Judea was the other.
-CynthiaCynthia, the current state of Israel has no connection whatsoever with the Israel that is described in the Bible. It is the creation of people who had no idea that the Judaism of the twentieth century is utterly alien to even the Judaism of the first century, when sacrifices were still offered as coverings for sin. Even the Orthodox Judaism of today has no doctrine of sacrificial covering of sin.
-JohnnyThe Northern Kingdom went out before the Southern Kingdom but both went into the 5th Cycle of Discipline. The Jews have been been disciplined by God over and over again because they turned away from HIm to worship idols and accepted the ways of other nations. The last destruction of Jerusalem was in 70 AD where they have been scattered throughout the earth until Jesus Christ recalls them at His 2nd Advent.
-msjallenJeremiah 31:10 Hear the word of the LORD, O nations, and declare in the coastlands afar off,
And say, “He who scattered Israel (5th Cycle of Discipline 70 AD) will gather him and keep him as a shepherd keeps his flock (During the Millennium).”
Grk : "…ου γαρ παντες οι εξ ισραηλ ουτοι ισραηλ" – “…For not all those who are from Israel are Israel.”
For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel (οὐ γαρ παντες οἱ ἐξ Ἰσραηλ οὑτοι Ἰσραηλ [ou gar pantes hoi ex Israēl houtoi Israēl]). “For not all those out of Israel (the literal Jewish nation), these are Israel (the spiritual Israel).” This startling paradox is not a new idea with Paul. He had already shown (Gal. 3:7–9) that those of faith are the true sons of Abraham. He has amplified that idea also in Rom. 4. So he is not making a clever dodge here to escape a difficulty. He now shows how this was the original purpose of God to include only those who believed. Seed of Abraham (σπερμα Ἀβρααμ [sperma Abraam]). Physical descent here, but spiritual seed by promise in verse 8. He quotes Gen. 21:12f.
Robertson, A.T.: Word Pictures in the New Testament. Oak Harbor : Logos Research Systems, 1997, S. Ro 9:6
-DespevilleKnowtheTruth said: it is true the Jew is of the chosen race, but they abdicated their favorable position, albeit for a short time, because of their rejection of Christ as their Messiah. I have been reading Isaiah and Ezekiel and the Jewish people have always turned their backs to God and followed after the pagan nations and their gods. God had run them through the fire of judgment time and time again, yet even though He all but destroyed them for their sins, He still considers them His chosen people and when the time of the Great Tribulation occurs, there will be a great revival amongst the Jews, through the 144,000 Jewish evangelists (12,000 per tribe) and they will come to see and acknowledge Christ as their Messiah. Even in this time of estrangement, God still punishes those who go against the Jewish people. Consider what has happened to Greece, the Roman Empire, Spain and Nazi Germany, not to mention those Middle Eastern countries that have tried their hardest to destroy Israel. In anti-Semitic leanings, bet on the Jews every time.
-msjallenYou are partially right, but you call them JEWS. The JEWS are the Southern Kingdom, and God 's people are ALL OF ISRAEL, the Northern Kingdom included! The Jews are only the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, and some of the Levites. The Northern Kingdom are the others. The Jews God's patience ran out and he allowed their enemies to overcome them. The Southern Kingdom was taken to Babylon, and the Northern Tribe was scattered over many areas. And God knows each and every one of them, and where they are. He WILL gather them again and they will reunite with the Southern Kingdom, the tribe of Juda. Do not call all of Israel "Jews" that is incorrect. though they are the ones who have gone back to Israel. The others will come in God's good time.
-PollyluWe disagree, Pollylu, since I don't believe there is a division among God's chosen people since 70AD. All tribes will be gathered from those who believe during the Tribulation. Rev 7:13-17 And one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and from where have they come?" And I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones [“sheep” of Matt 25:32-33] who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. "For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne shall spread His tabernacle over them."They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore; neither shall the sun beat down on them, nor any heat;
-msjallen"… And he said to me, "These are the ones [“sheep” of Matt 25:32-33]"
A very different thing between what the Lord said and what you and your traditions of men are saying…
-Despevillehttp://bit.ly/tcT6Mj
It amazes me that only a person without historical Biblical knowledge of Israel/Israelites/Jews could make such an ignorant statement about Israel. You must be a steadfast anti-Semite to make such a remark and God will hold you accountable for your personal view and spreading the lie and deception of Satan to people who innocently and ignorantly agree with you. Aren't you aware of the Diaspora and God's recalling of His chosen ones back to their historical lands… which now is pressured by outsiders (including the U.S.) to surrender even more of the land God gave to them over 3000 years ago?
-WinstonPhooey! The real story is that the Israel lobby in the U.S. has been hugely successful, garnering for itself a hugely disproportionate allocation of foreign aid money. The confused end times, premillennialist crowd pushes hard for support to Israel, their interest growing out of a distorted eschatology that fails to recognize genuine Biblical dispensationalism, which clearly teaches that Judaism is no longer in effect and the the Israel of God is no longer some special, selected ethnic people, but is the church. Read the Book of Hebrews, folks and get educated.
-bighossAnything I can't stand, is the church taking , and applying promises to the physical Israel,to themselves . read the book of Hebrews folks and get educated!!!!!!!!!!!, You do have to read quite a bit more to get the whole picture. which I don't have time to do now, maybe later
-Pastor DwayneAnother testimony to your man made traditions and paralyzing ignorance…
-DespevilleThis is to jolt your man's traditions mesmerized mind… LINK: http://youtu.be/FLt7TNa8XA8
Grk : "…ου γαρ παντες οι εξ ισραηλ ουτοι ισραηλ" – “…For not all those who are from Israel are Israel.”
For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel (οὐ γαρ παντες οἱ ἐξ Ἰσραηλ οὑτοι Ἰσραηλ [ou gar pantes hoi ex Israēl houtoi Israēl]). “For not all those out of Israel (the literal Jewish nation), these are Israel (the spiritual Israel).” This startling paradox is not a new idea with Paul. He had already shown (Gal. 3:7–9) that those of faith are the true sons of Abraham. He has amplified that idea also in Rom. 4. So he is not making a clever dodge here to escape a difficulty. He now shows how this was the original purpose of God to include only those who believed. Seed of Abraham (σπερμα Ἀβρααμ [sperma Abraam]). Physical descent here, but spiritual seed by promise in verse 8. He quotes Gen. 21:12f.
Robertson, A.T.: Word Pictures in the New Testament. Oak Harbor : Logos Research Systems, 1997, S. Ro 9:6
-DespevilleConfused leavenjellycals think that godless and pagan state of Israel is actually "almost" Christian… How sad and this is what Hagee and other charlatans are spreading thanks to complete and utter ignorance of who is the Israel of God…
"It is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all those who are descended from Israel are truly Israel."
-Despeville~ Romans 9:6
No, Dr Paul is not anti-Israel. He believes, rightly, that Israel is a sovereign nation and should be treated as such, not like a slave, forced to his master's willto keep his food and shelter, which is what we do with Israel.
We give Israel $3Bn in foreign, which makes them beholden to us in order to keep the cash flowing. aLSO, WHILE WE GIVE iSRAEL $3Bn a year, we give it's enemies in the Middle East $12Bn a year. If we quit both, as Paul would do, Israel comes out stronger in relation to it's enemies AND is no longer subservient to us.
-Bob@I would like for someone to convince me you are right. For I want you to be right. I cannot vote for Ron Paul is he is anti-Israel. That alone is holding me back. I have heard much about both sides, and I don't know what to believe. I believe as said above, that Israel (all of Israel, not just the Jews) are God's chosen people, and it is set in stone. And whoever curses Israel He will curse. It doesn't matter how good or bad these people are, they are God's chosen people and HE will deal with them in due time. So please direct me to the convincing truth.
-PollyluIf you are referring to the secular mini-state created by the godless United Nations in 1948 to appease the political Zionist movement (who also committed terrorist acts), I submit that
-BarbaraGod most certainly did not tell us to support it (modern day "Israel").
Can a bad tree (the U.N.) bear good fruit?
Just some food for thought.
A Jew is a Jew regardless whether they are modern day or not. Israel is populated mostly by Jews even though it is was brought about by man efforts and not God's. He will bring His people back to their land at the beginning of the Millennium when He will reign on the throne of David for 1000 years.
-msjallenGod's definition of who is a true Jew is completely and directly opposed to yours…
-DespevilleLook up Romans 2:28-29
'…He will reign on the throne of David for 1000 years."
No He will reign and does already FOREVER.
-DespevilleYou are incorrect. God made a promise to Israel that he will NEVER retract, and all that has happened to them has passed through Him. They were his people in all the "modern days" of the generations, and he does not go back on his Word. He WILL correct them in HIS time. He will NEVER turn his back on his promise. NEVER.
-PollyluThe question is who is the true Israel then? For all Israel is Israel…
Is Dispensationalism Anti-Semitic? – http://youtu.be/FLt7TNa8XA8
-DespevilleNOT ALL ISRAEL IS OF ISRAEL… Therefore not who are perceived as Israel by people are actually the Israel of God…
-Despevillehttp://bit.ly/keWfKF
Romans 9:6–12
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but: "THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED." 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. 9 For this is the word of promise: "AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON." 10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12 it was said to her, "THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER." 13 Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED."
-Despevillepolltlu,,,, Desparetville doesn't get , what he says about the true Israel is TRUE!!!! but he does not get it about the promises to the physical Israel !
-Pastor DwayneThere is no such thing as a "Christian Libertarian". Oh, there may very well be some Christians who support libertarianism (out of Biblical ignorance), but true libertarianism looks to the "self" before looking to God/Jesus. More sincere Christians are moving to the Constitution Party to vote their conscience.
-WinstonWinston, you are so wrong. Evidently you are judging libertarianism by a few people and not by the principles. In my view, a Christian could be nothing BUT a libertarian!
-BettyThen Betty, you may wallow in your personal ignorance of what Libertarianism is, but I stand firmly planted that Libertarianism is anti-Christian and anti-Israel in its philosophical tennets. The "liberty" espoused by Libertarians is NOT the LIBERTY found only in Jesus Christ (hence, Biblical Christianity). Oh, I don't deny that many professed Christians have jumped on the Ron Paul band wagon in support but that very same Ron Paul is anti-Israel (read the ramificications in Genesis 12:3). Christianity is void of any political party because politics creates "man-followers" which the Bible warns against. Will you be one which Christ will meet in heaven then say, "I know your works, and they are not mine…be gone with you"? In these last days of the church age, there will be many deceived…don't be one of them.
-WinstonI think you are blending political freedom with spiritual freedom here, Winston. Also, Ron Paul is not the summation or the personification of libertarianism. As a libertarian, myself, and a confessed believer, I am not sure I would vote for Ron Paul for a number of reasons, which I will not go into here.
One issue that I believe libertarianism addresses more than the Republicans or the Democrats, is the issue of personal responsibility/personal freedom. Today's society is heavily slanted towards chanting about "freedom", but when negative results happen because of the actions of an individual due to that "freedom", personal responsibility is nowhere to be found. Today, one can hardly object to or have a different view of so many topics without offending someone, some group, some advocacy, that it is almost pointless to speak to others.
Reduction in the size of the government is another issue that is significantly different than the Dems or Repubs. Our society substitutes laws for common sense in an ongoing effort to protect us from ourselves.
-TaquoshiYou err in your observation, Taquoshi because I separate secular/political freedom from the freedom found only in Jesus the Christ. Suggest you Reread my post.
-WinstonI re-read your posts multiple times, Winston, before I replied the first time. Let me summarize:
Your first post declared that Christians can not be libertarians based on your belief that Christians who are libertarians are Biblically ignorant.
Betty rightly pointed out that you can not paint all Christian Libertarians with that brush simply because you do not know each and every one or their level of Biblical understanding.
Your response to her gentle reply was to call her ignorant and further confuse the matter by stating "I stand firmly planted that Libertarianism is anti-Christian and anti-Israel in its philosophical tennets. The "liberty" espoused by Libertarians is NOT the LIBERTY found only in Jesus Christ (hence, Biblical Christianity)."
Nowhere in the Libertarian platform is there an anti-Israeli position, nor is there an anti-Christian position. You state that Libertarians look to "self" first rather than Jesus Christ, a rather breath-taking statement in my view. I suspect you may be confusing "libertarianism" with "objectivism" as presented by Ayn Rand and her followers.
I would also like to point out that even a committed Christian who is not a libertarian can easily look to themselves rather than the Lord for "The heart is more deceitful than all else, and is desperately sick; Who can understand it?" (Jer. 17:9 NASB). This is generally referred to as "sin", and occurs 24/7/365 in everyone's lives regardless of whether any given person is a libertarian or not. There is freedom from sin which can be obtained through Christ's redemptive mercy, however, once again, it has nothing to do with the political affiliations of a given individual.
-TaquoshiI would like to see a Constitution political party. We do need many changes in our political structure in this country.
-msjallen@msjallen: There already is a Constitution Party and it is replete with born again Christians. During the previous 2008 presidential election, Chuck Baldwin was it's candidate. See: http://www.constitutionparty.com/
-WinstonWinston, thank you, I did not know one actually got started. Will deffinately check into it. No matter who gets the nomination for 2012 I will vote Repulican only to vote against 0. I would like to see the Constitution Party grow in strength and overcome the two party system that has become so corrupt.
-msjallenExactly WHO is the representative of a "Constitution party" Winston? Far as I know, there is none or I would be a strong advocate for that party. What we have are dems, repubs, socialists, libertarians, and liberals (who happen to run on all the tickets under one of the first 4 tickets). What people need to do is vote for the person, man or woman, who believes in our US Constitution and Declaration of Independence. Until we actually materialize a true Constitutionalist Party, we are stuck with the major 4.
-CJMhttp://www.constitutionparty.com/
-WinstonThe Constitution Party has been around for several years and is growing rapidly. Many die-hard conservatives yield to the Republican Party because they believe a "third-party" (hence Constitution Party) splits the votes. While this may be true to some extent, by NOT supporting a bona fide third party the voters will never be fully represented of their true and sincere conservative, Constitutional, and Christian values…and that's just what the elitist (globalist) Republican and Democrat parties want your to believe.
Winston, I totally understand what you are saying but I thnk this time around we just need to get rid of 0. Next go around we ALL need to work hard to get the Constitution Party growing. I just can't forget what happened when Perot ran and we lost to Clinton. We can't let 0 win because of a third party candidate has so much ego they don't think what is best for our country.
-msjallenAmerica has failed its voters by limiting our REAL choices in an election and that's how Congress and the White House has been able to get away with lying and deceiving voters after they are elected. If we had a decentralized Congress with multiple political party representation (e.g. Great Britain, Israel, etc.) the extra political party representatives would be able to keep the two principle parties to toe the line…such as the Tea Party candidates have done since the 2010 elections. The problem is that the socialists/communists/secular humanists would refuse to break their Democrat party into multiple parties as it should be for all to have a voice. You may follow former Constitution Party presidential candidate, Chuck Baldwin, at http://chuckbaldwinlive.com.
-WinstonCynthia Davis is running for Lt.Gov. of missouri as a member of the constitution party…if you want to know more about them.. .http://www.constitutionparty.com/
-@rscsupporterNo. Ron Paul is lawless and due to his lack of courage and moral conviction will easily be overcome by any enemy. He is another kind of Satan one that would allow the country to be overrun by drug cartels. Jesus is Lord and He will return; my prediction is very soon. As Obama has weakened our country, there is savor rattling around the world soon to usher in a third world war, food and economic crisis, and many other problems. Our best opportunity to strengthen America and to calm the angst around the world is to bring in a strong Christian leader. You see how these options have been refuted. Gingrich and Santorum are our best chance for reform and the strong America in which you have been privileged to live. Gingrich especially is being attacked by the establishment-that should be sending you a very clear message about who can take them down and rebuild our homeland. Fix this quickly and then we can restabilize the rest of the world by sending food and other necessities.
-ajfrenchDon't know if you heard Obama state that he was going to vote for Gingrich in the primaries but this means he thinks Gingrich would be the easiest for him to beat! You are right in thinking we need a strong Christian but if Gingrich or Santorum are your definition of that role, you are sadly mistaken. Ron Paul is the only candidate who is a true Christian.
-Carol GoodwinHe would end the drug cartels by federally decriminalizing drug use. If, as individual states. we take control of certain drugs, we would then tax them as we do liquor and tobacco. The cartels would then only have the human slave trades in which to deal. Too bad for them but criminals are always going to have something evil to do.
Democrats cannot vote in a Republican primary election.
-Winston"Ron Paul is lawless…"
I'm sorry, but that's just laughable. Ron Paul adheres to a strict interpretation of the Constitution — which, I might remind everyone, is the supreme law of the land. Therefore, Ron Paul is pretty much the only GOP candidate who abides by the law (i.e., the Constitution).
-Jared MyersIf a Christian cannot be a Libertarian, then how can they be a libertarian? All the Founding Fathers were just as libertarian as you could get. They fought to give us a perfect Republic and warned us to keep it. Ron Paul is fighting for the same thing. Being a coward is more like being a Democrat or a Republican.
-GalenOur founding fathers were not cowards, isolationists or traitors to their country. Thomas Jefferson invaded modern day Libya defeating the Barbary pirates. Ron Paul says we shouldn't have fought Hitler. Ron Paul and his ronbots are fighting for a Neo Nazi Amerika!
-jefffranklinSincere Christians (not Christian In Name Only) must be very careful to NOT become a "man-follower" by saddling up with secular humanist political candidate…and one especially like Ron Paul who would compromise a sincere Christian's Biblical beliefs because he is anti-Israel. Read Genesis 12:3. Your are confusing secular liberty vs. liberty found only in Jesus Christ.
-WinstonWinston, you do not have the right to call anyone a "Christian in name only." You do not know what that individual believes or disbelieves; you do not know if that person is sincere or not; and you are not the spokesperson for God. You may believe the bible as you personally interpret it, but that does not mean another's interpretation is erroneous. I hope to God I never find myself in the same church pew with you because we would certainly be at odds. Please quit offending me and others by your pronouncements that ony your view is the correct view. PEACE!
-CJMRon Paul isn't a Christian. He's far from it! His early newsletters make it clear he objects to the state of Israel and says the land should be given back to the Arabs. First of all, the Arabs never lived there and have no claim to it. Second of all, God clearly gave that land to Abraham's descendants through his promised son, Isaac. And that includes all of Jordan and part of Egypt. The Arabs are the ones who are squatters when they came from Arab nations with Yassar Arafat to make an illegal claim to the land! When Jesus returns to claim His earthly kingdom and set up His throne in Jerusalem, He will push back the borders and make everything right! And what a glorious day that will be!
-CynthiaI do wish that nonsense would cease! RON PAUL DID NOT WRITE THOSE AND HE HAS DISAVOWED THEM! How many times do you have to hear this? In today's world of photo-shopping, counterfeiting what precisely makes anyone think that a multitude of persons would not write something and attach someone else's name to it? It happens all the time. That is the unfortunate truth about the media and the 'establishment'. They will stop at nothing to keep our nation in this socialistic, me, me, me. circus! We need to return to a Republic way of thinking as our founders did. Our current "leaders" are leading us right into the pits of hell, along with the giant snowball.
-Carol GoodwinThey have to hear it many times, Carol, because people want to believe the very worst of someone they don't like. To me, it is a petty stance to take, but I guess they like cowardice.
-CJMYour ignorance concerning eschatology is apalling. Go to americanvision.org. II Tim 2:15
-GaryWhere in the Bible is it said that Jesus will set hi throne up in Jerusalem? There is no location given for the great white throne that is mentioned in the 20th and 21st chapters of Revelation (it is ot even stated that it will be in the new Jerusalem.
-JohnnyJohnny, the Great White Throne judgment comes after the 1000 years reign of Christ in Jerusalem on the throne of David.
-msjallenWhere does the Bile say that Jesus is going to reign for 1000 years in Jerusalem?
-Johnny@Johnny,
Nowhere. This is a gimmick of dispensationalist and their abuse of Revelation 20:2
Do yourself a favor and do not buy into this sensationalism made up no more than 170 years ago in England.
You will do well by listening to these two lectures on Revelation 20:1-10 so abused by dispensationalists
Lecture 1: http://links.christreformed.org/realaudio/A201011…
-DespevilleLecture 2: http://links.christreformed.org/realaudio/A201011…
Despeville, I long ago realized that dispensationalism, premillenialism and postmillenialism are all creations of people who have not read the Bible carefully, but have dreamed up their own systems of endtimes events.
-JohnnyI can have fellowship with premils, but the other two are utterly fantastic. A premil can preach salvation by grace alone. A dispensationalist beleives that God was surprised and had to change his plans. A postmil holds that the world will get better more or less on its own.
Glad that you are not under spell of "Left Behind" pulp fiction….
-DespevilleI read the first book, and could predict what would come next in the narrative, for it followed the premillennial construct of the description of God's victory over Satan and all the other forces of evil that Revelation declares. I saw no reason to read any other book in the series.
We are living in the last times, and have been living so since our Lord's Ascension. I understand the "thousand years" to be the indefinite (to all but the Father) time between his Ascension and his Return when all who have died will be raised to life again, he will gather his people together and the Last Judgement will take place.
-JohnnyRev 20:3-4 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time. Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
-msjallenZech 14:9 And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one and His name the only one. (Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords.)
Some scriptures that tell what life will be like during the Millennium: Isaiah 11, 35, 62, 65, Psalm 72, Zech 14:4-9, and more in Revelation 20
Only one Scripture of all quoted by you actually uses "thousand" and uses it in a figurative manner as for ever. Just like Psalm 50:10 uses "thousand" for everything. Yet going with your wooden liberalism in Revelation 20:2 and using it exactly same way in Psalm 50:10 one would have to conclude that the cattle on the hill 1001 and following is not Lord's…
This is a how your dispensationalism works or rather does not work at all…
-Despeville"wooden liberalism" -> wooden literalism
-DespevilleDes, you just don't make any sense at all.
-msjallenNothing does outside of your circle of dispensationalism… Do yourself a favor and listen:
Lecture 1: http://links.christreformed.org/realaudio/A201011…
-DespevilleLecture 2: http://links.christreformed.org/realaudio/A201011…
"It is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all those who are descended from Israel are truly Israel."
-Despeville~ Romans 9:6
msjallen,,,, You have to know the totality of what Desperatville believes !! pardon my french, ""it ain't good"", for a sample of what he believes , get on the internet and pull up, John Calvin Exposed , that is a good start!! He believes Jesus only hung on the cross for a few people ,not all , him and Calvin are messed up in their predestination theory , they believe in baptizing babies and children ….a liar that accuses everybody else of being liars , are usually the liar ,So when Desparetville accuses everybody else of having man made doctrines, just as the liar that accuses everybody else of being liars , So, his and Calvins doctrine is MAN MADE. Again, pull up, John Calvin exposed!!!
-Pastor DwayneThank you, sir, I totally agree. Des has been misled in many ways especially because of his Calvinistic beliefs. He constantly attacks my beliefs and I no longer respond to him. My pastor has taught the fallacy of John Calvin and other religions through the years and I have been thourghly endoctrinated with the truth of the Word of God as you are and I appreciate our comment. Yes, the John Calvin exposed site is very informative and helpful. I believe I looked it up the last time you wrote it on one of your comments. We KNOW that Jesus died on the cross for ALL mankind and not just a few. God knew who was going to believe in Him but man doesn't. Free will and volition. I believe they misinterpret predestination.
-msjallenStaking my conclusion on the word of God alone, the answer is an absolute "No. Never." A Christian cannot be a libertarian. A libertarian will tolerate anything, even those things which go against the Bible and the word of God.
-John J FlanaganAnd a neoconservative Republican will tolerate imperialist aggression such as G.W. Bush's warmongering, buccaneering invasion of Iraq on lying pretenses, with resultant deaths of 4,500 Americans, and at least 150,000 Iraqis, all to no avail as that tribalized crazy quilt of a "country" reverts back to the internal hatreds and violence that have long been its lot.
-bighossWell John – you just proved the point of many that a Christian is required to control the lives of other people.
-davesPolitically, a person can be anything they want to be regardless of religious affiliation. We call that being human. God would find us boring indeed because not once has he read anything that glorifies Him on this or any other blog. Anyone can quote scripture, so that doesn't count…face it, what are we THANKFUL FOR? I am thankful for just being able to get up out of bed in the morning and walk around the house. I am thankful for every morsel of food even when it becomes scarce at the end of the month. There are many other things I am thankful for and without God, nothing would exist to give thanks for. My opinions may differ from yours, but at least I still have the mind to be able to expess those opinons and God could care less aabouat my political affiliations..
-CJMIn general, libertarians ignore the depravity of man.
-JohnnyIt appears that there is a lack of understanding among Christians. There are twelve tribes of Isrial. At this time we can only identify two, The ten lost tribes are lost to us for now. That leaves the Jews, The Tribe of Judah, who we know as citizens of Israel as well as everywhere else, and the Tribe of Joseph, who are not lost at all, they are us. A serious search of your genealogy will prove that you are descended from Joseph. In England there are many monuments in the form of a Lion, that's the symbol Judah, and the unicorn, which is the symbol of Ephraim, the son of Joseph. The Native Americans are also from Joseph. Go figure it out.
-GalenGalen, interesting hypothesis, but factually questionable, especially the idea that Native Americans originated from Joseph.
-John J FlanaganIf the results of DNA testing are true, the Native Americans are not descended from any descendant of Abraham.
-JohnnyAha! Another disciple of the zany doctrine of British Israelism! Ted Weiland will welcome you with open arms!
-bighossPseudo Christian Identity eh? All who accept Christ as their Savior are the "chosen" of God regardless of genealogy. Get real!
-jefffranklinNot all the world is descended from the line of the Jews. The world is largely gentile – with no lineage back to the 12 sons of Jacob at all. The 70 weeks of Daniel, a prophesy specific to the Jews, is currently "on hold" and has been since Israel rejected their Messiah. Now is the "time of the Gentiles", when salvation is presented to the Gentile nations and the Church (the body of all believers in Christ Jesus) is being built.
When the time of the Gentiles is completed, and Christ takes the Church out of the world, then God resumes the final "week of years" prophesied by Daniel and the completion of God's promise to Israel will be fulfilled.
-PaulPaul, thank you, finally, someone who speaks the truth about the Jews and eschatology.
-msjallenhe No Religious Test Clause of the United States Constitution is found in Article VI, paragraph 3, and states that:
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States
-bighossWhat's a libertarian Christian? Does Joshua son of Nun know the correct answer? If not, let's ask Ananias and Sapphira to learn what they think! Or we might ask the nobleman in the parable of the minas. Perhaps he knows the correct answer.
" 'But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.' "
-Paul TrombleyAs we know, Christians can be Italian Mafia (for instance, Al Capone or John Gotti); can be members of Mara Salvatrucha; can be homosexuals (up to 33% of Roman Catholic priests).
-@ConstIvaSo, why not Libertarians?
Two errors here, Mafioso and homos are not Christian, and the percentage of RC priest who are sodomites is closer to 70% (God forbid that any of these be called Christian either).
-IthamarThere are very, really very few non-Christian Italians. So, I didn't make a mistake here when talking about Capone and Gotti (and others).
-@ConstIvaThere are very, really very few non-Christian Hispanics. So, I didn't make a mistake here either when mentioning Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13).
My number of 33% of RC homosexuals is based on LGBT data (they never diminish the number of perverts), but I think it's an exaggeration.
What your 70% is based on?
As to what constitutes being a Christian, the Word go God must determine that. Pay close attention to the words of Christ where He warns the many in the day of judgment who profess to be his disciples, "depart from me you workers of iniquity, for I never knew you". Also the clear warning in the book of Revelation regarding those who call themselves Jews (Christians), but are not.
My 70 percent estimate is based upon 30 years close work with Roman Catholic priest around the world, more than 3years living within thirty miles of Rome. The estimate was actually placed at 80 percent by a close RC priest friend. I am not impressed by and information which comes from an organization devoted to advancing the culture of sodomy.
-IthamarI definitely don't like LGBT. The more trustworthy did I find the number 33%: they would never make this number lesser than it is in reality, just by the very reason you mentioned: promoting sexual debauchery.
-@ConstIvaHomosexuality is a sin just like all other sins. Does that mean that all who sin cannot be Christians? There are many people who believed in Jesus Christ perhaps has children or even adults who never got into the Word of God to answer the question; "After salvation what?" They went astray, some call it backsliding some call it reversionsim but if one believed in Jesus Christ as their savior they will go heaven but receive no rewards. Salvation cannot be worked for or bought or lost by any human being. Jesus did it all on the cross and He said; "It is finished".
-msjallenNo follower of Christ (definition of "christian"), one who walks in the light as He is in the light, can be any of the things you mentioned.
Catholicism – which is a cult, based on mysticism, rituals, chants and ceremonies may claim to be "christian" but they are deceived. Pray that they repent, agreeing with God of their sin and their need of a Savior and that God will yet save them. And pray the same for yourself. I will.
-Paul"Gott mit uns!"
Do you know what does it mean? "God with us!"
Those words were on all uniforms of German Army during the WWII.
You may stick with your personal definition of what Christianity is, but is does not change the fact that many very bad people or people following a very bad ideology (like Nazism and Communism) were/are/ will be Christians.
-@ConstIvaLike those Christians who hysterically vote for the obama, for instance.
Tell the Pope that "Catholicism is a cult," and let's see what he will tell you in response.
-@ConstIvaThen tell all Italians, Spaniards, Portugueses, 1,336,718,015 Chinese Catholics, 1,189,172,906 Indian Catholics, and many dozens of Millions of other Catholics that they are preaching a cult, and let's see what they will tell you, Mister Christian the Pure.
Oh, by the way, how "christian" is to scorch Christian faith of those who believe in Jesus Christ differently!
AMEN. I feel like the whole world is sinking in some of these replies, and now and then one comes up with sanity like you, Paul. Thanks.
-PollyluRight on, Paul. you are 100 percent right.
-PollyluTo Constlva – Christians in Name Only. Just as we have RINOs we have CINOs. Anyone can be a sinner, and then ask forgiveness, and become a Christian. But these people are not apparently asking for forgiveness, but it is not up to us to judge. At the same time, we should not be tarred with them.
-American GramGram, I believe the Bible says to be saved one only has to…
-msjallenJohn 3:15 so that WHOEVER BELIEVES will in Him have eternal life.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOEVER BELIEVES in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:18 He who BELIEVES in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only uniquely born Son of God.
John 3:36 He who BELIEVES in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
Acts 16:31 They said, "BELIEVE in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
I John 5:11-13 And this is the deposition, that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. 13These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
Constatsaliva who admits to being homosexual has the vileness to accuse holy men of his own form of vileness will find soon a special place in hell for himself
-Bud MacGuire"Constatsaliva who admits to being homosexual" – Huh?
-@ConstIvaHow long time ago did you visit your psychiatrist?
As for your "Constatsaliva," believe me I can find a huge amount of words to insult you, but I won't. Unlike you "a Christian."
You are representing that abominable type of creatures – "Christians in name only."
Libertarianism will never work because Christians, despite their claims to a higher moral ground, DO NOT keep to the rules.
One only has to see the number of people driving carelessly with Christian bumper stickers.
-ChrisA sad commentary Chris. And all too true. If we were to be tried in court, and all the evidence of our lives and activities was brought before the judge – would we be convicted of being Christians? Shamefully, probably not. That tells us something important – it tells us that we have become friends of the world again, after supposedly having left the world behind to follow the Lord. It's time to turn back to the Way, the Truth and the Light.
-PaulI am not sure about libertarians , but I am sure about demonrats , GOD will condemn any Christian that votes for a party whose plank supports homosexuality or the homosexual agenda of rotting kids brains with this perversion and anyone that does not condemn abortion . These miscreants can call themselves Christians all day long but GOD knows the heart of a true Christian . Also the fact that a very large majority of athiests and secularists are demonrats cannot be overlooked .
-buckContrary to your statement, God assures us in Romans 8:1 that if we belong to Him, there is NO CONDEMNATION.
While chapter 6 clearly tells us that we should not be using our forgiven state, and God's boundless grace as excuses to go on sinning and thinking it is OK to do so – we are assured that God knows our frailties and calls us to live lives not enslaved to sin and its pleasures but one that is caught up with the Spirit of God, and glorifies God. That even when we fail, because of Christ's sacrifice, we remain uncondemned as Christ intercedes with the Father on our behalf.
God has no, adheres to no, and tells us to adhere to no political party – His Kingdom is not of this world. Let's pray for the day when He sets up His Kingdom in earth as it is in heaven.
-PaulA Christian nor a Libertarian does not consort with racists and Neo Nazis! Period! Ron Paul is neither a Christian or Libertarian. Ron Paul is a phony, a wolf in sheeps clothing who fleeces his flock with fearmongering and blaming the Jews and Israel for every fault with America. Christians or Libertarains are not traitors to their country which Ron Paul is.
-jefffranklin"Ron Paul is a phony, a wolf in sheeps clothing who fleeces his flock with fearmongering and blaming the Jews and Israel for every fault with America."
You, sir, are either ignorant or utterly and completely dishonest. I hope for your sake (as a Christian) it's the former.
-Jared MyersSo if an enemy attacks, we just lay down our arms and not resist. In other words just surrender to the enemy. I think that is what Ron Paul seems to suggest. I for one am not for it.
-DwightRon Paul believes in a strong military, much as Ronald Regan did. When you are strong you don't have to fight wars. Regan brought down the Berlin wall without firing a shot. That's strength, not bombing countries that have done nothing to us.
-GaryUh, excuse me! Reagan invaded Grenada when Castro tried to seize it. Reagan defeated Communism in East Europe because he was NOT an isolationist like Ron Paul. Reagan supported freedom fighters all over the world. Nicaragua, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Angola… which the coward Rob Paul would no do. Reagan did like the other excellent Republican president, Theodore Roosevelt, did, spoke softly and used a big stick! Ron Paul is the best friend that terrorist states like China, Iran have. To blazes with Ron Paul!
-jefffranklinA Christian is a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ. His (or her) entire thought, demeanor, and activity needs to be one that proclaims the Glory of God and spreads the Good News – Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; He died for our sins according to the Scriptures, was buried, and rose again according to the Scriptures; He is the only way to the Father; His death paid the just penalty for our sins, so we may be received into the family of God justified (not guilty); Believe and you will be saved. Reject the only means of salvation and we remain in our sins – receiving the just punishment for them.
As for the "politics" of a Christian – Christians are commanded simply to obey the authority that is over them because no authority of man is possible but the one that God appoints. When that government declares laws or activities that are contrary to the laws of God we simply continue to obey God's laws – not with show, or demonstration, but as one (like Daniel) who, while being obedient to the government placed over him, nevertheless, despite the cost, worshipped only God.
It may go against our nature, but we are to live lives that ARE against our (fleshly) nature and its emotionally and selfishly driven direction.
Christians – you see an unfair government: Pray for them. You see a thieving tax man: Pray for them. You see a society who having kicked God out of their thoughts are now given over to the deviant mind, enacting deviant laws, calling good evil and evil good: Pray for them. Pray that God will change their hearts and minds, as He has changed yours and mine. Pray that all men everywhere will repent and come to the knowledge of the Truth- Jesus Christ – and be saved.
-PaulGod Bless you President Obama.
-davesGood reply, Paul, except that we can’t repent and be saved, we can’t change our evil ways before salvation.
-msjallenBelieve and repent means to change your mind about Christ. Repent does not mean to feel sorry for your sins.
Paul, again from Pollylu. You are right again. Thanks for having the "mind of Christ" in these things. Every now and then things getting out of hand, you come back to The Way, the Truth and the Life," Jesus Christ. He can change ANYONE. Whosoever will.
-Pollylu"…aggressive war must cease and civil liberties must be preserved." Given the realities of human nature, among which is the desire to have power, how are civil liberties to be defended against those who wish to restrict or abolish them if the use of force is immoral?
Another reality of human nature is that not all humans honor morality. If the "initiation of force against person and property is immoral," does that mean we always wait to be attacked before responding? Is it not moral to seek to prevent attack? Is not one of the primary functions of government ensuring the safety of the people? If I see someone about to shoot someone else, do I try to reason with the shooter, do I wait until he fires before responding, or am I justified in taking him out.
"God does not show favoritism, nor does [H]e give special privileges of position." That is simply not true. Psalm 75:7, Daniel 2:21; many verses speak of God granting favor to one over another. Romans 13:1-2 says all authority is from God, and He sets in place those in authority.
-CraigHave you ever seen the beatings Gandhi took? What about Martin Luther King Jr.?
-davesOnly liberty Ron Paul is focused on is the white man's and Islamo fascist terrorists!
-jefffranklinWithout dissing the other candidates, my present feeling is that, whatever his faults may be, Mr. Paul is the only candidate whom I'd vote for next November. I'm a socially and politically conservative Christian who once was a Republican but now sees that party as being just as corrupt as the Democrats. If Mr. Paul isn't nominated, I'll stay home.
Art Thomas
-Art ThomasArt, I pray that you don't stay home. Your vote counts and if you can't vote for Ron Paul then enjoy another 4 years with 0 and the Constitution destroyed.
-msjallenPlease understand that there is NO WAY Ron Paul can be elected President of the U.S. There are many good libertarians who have worked hard and given to their cause and have backed Paul. While some libertarian positions overlap with republican values, they are clearly a minority faction. Some of Ron's positions make him unelectable, i.e. foreign policy. He is approaching too old to run again (he seems old). He is a poor debater, comes off whiny and crotchety and would be crushed in the real contest.
-GordonA Christian proposing to kill other people. Typical hypocrite.
-Chris PNemesis of EMpire shows no evidence here of being a Christian.
-Johnnyhe does show signs of a mental disorder.
-Jeff DixonAttn: Voters who are sincere Christians. The group of political candidates (perhaps excluding Michele Bachmann) boil down their ideologies into one which is "lawless" the work of an anti-Christ spirit. So do be very careful which political candidate you support. Don't forget that even if you choose to make a "write in" candidate which fully agrees with your personal value system, GOD knows your heart and will protect you even if an evil leader (e.g., Barack Obama) is elected for a second and devastating term as illegitimate president. For sincere Biblical Christians (you should know who you are) Jesus is coming again to catch up the true Church into the sky to be with him forever, while the rest will remain on earth to experience the dictatorial rule by THE anti-Christ in a one-world government/economy/religion…and it will not be a fun place to be.
-WinstonWell, thank God Church Age believers will not go through the the Tribulation. However, if the Rapture does not take place we could go under the 5th Cycle of Discipline if believers are not willing to turn back to God in great numbers so our Nation can be blessed by God again. It does not matter who is the leader of any country; what matters is that believers are to be following God's ways in their daily lives. During the time of the Antonine Caesars was the greatest time of Christian growth and not one Caesar was a believer and Christians were persecuted and put to death by the hundreds. Yet, the spread of Christianity was enormous. It may be another 1000 years before the Rapture; only the Lord knows; so in the meantime we need to learn and follow what the Bible teaches so we can live through any disaster in life. God's grace is sufficient.
-msjallenWell, heck yeah!
-DeanWhile I can't speak for Christians on this, I do consider it quite practical to be both religious and libertarian. Most of our current woes are from excess of greedy government; tossing everything done by government over the last 19 years (or more) would benefit us all. I'd prefer that religious and personal stress become a routine situation handled by participation in sports; the Greeks figured this one out three millennia ago and invented the Olympiad to quell wars between Sparta, Athens, and other city-states. I much prefer to promote a pantheist view that accepts what truth there is in any (peaceful) faith and promotes co-existence and sports-based competition while each of us chooses his or her best connection with whatever gods are friendliest to the individual. Promoting peaceful faith in general can do what forcing a specific faith or small faith group never can – unite a nation voluntarily vice through tyranny.
-MalikTousI agree with the Libertarian point of view – but in saying that – I believe our leaders should let it be known that we will defend ourselves if attacked – ok – those in Islamist countries do what they do but if they are trying to “convert” this country and destroy our Constitution by the courts or by violence – we will counterattack either by legal means or anti-missle missles or by the military – to make sure that we are not destroyed. If Israel wants military equipment to defend herself – we should help her if we are asked – the enemy should know that we do not want to go in and change their nation – BUT that we will stop aggression in any form. God does not forbid a sovereign state to defend its people from those who would destroy her – we should not be the aggressor but the defender of freedom.
-Gail Steelhammer-Cohen