Liberals and Conservatives consider what Jesus might think
Christians in the U.S. who labeled themselves politically liberal or conservative told researchers Jesus wouldn’t necessarily agree with their social views if he were alive today, according to a study.
The conservatives said Jesus would probably be more against abortion and same-sex marriage than they are, and less opposed to helping illegal immigrants obtain citizenship. Liberals believe Jesus would be tougher than them on morality and more open on questions concerning fellowship.
The researchers asked 787 self-identified Christians to use a 100-point scale representing liberal to conservative to gauge Jesus’s views. The results, reported today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, confirms previous findings that people often separate political views from traditional religious teachings.
“Liberals are conceding that they’re deviating from Jesus on their views on moral issues and conservatives are conceding that they are deviating from Jesus on fellowship issues,” Lee Ross, the study’s lead author, said in an interview. “They differed almost as much in Jesus’s views as their own.”
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When you read and study Mathew, Mark, Luke and John, these four books tell you anything that you need to know about how JESUS thought, taught, believe In fact if you pay attention to what you are reading it will leave you with no doubt. If there is any doubt or any questions there are many ministers and Bible teachers that will be glad to explain it. You will come away with no doubt, whatsoever that HE WAS, IS, WILL REMAIN THE SON OF GOD.
Reading the rest of the Bible, including the Old Testament, there is boundless information about JESUS. TRY IT, YOU WON'T BE SORRY!!!!
-MyrtlelinderLearning about JESUS is a very rewarding thing. Start of by reading Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. The information is boundless. When you finish, there are many good Christian ministers who can and will be glad to help you understand what you have read. You should not stop there, read the entire New Testament and then the Old Testament. There is so much info in all of the Bible that is a wealth if information that will help you to understand GOD'S plans for you.
-MyrtlelinderAsking a lieberal about Jesus is the same thing as asking an atheist because all lieberals are, in truth, atheists. GOD is neither conservative or lieberal, but satan most certainly is a lieberal.
-BobseeksDo these parallel your Conservative beliefs?
MATTHEW 5-7 (King James Bible Clarified New Testament)
5:38 You have heard that it has been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
5:39 But I say unto you, That you resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also.
5:40 And if any man will sue you at the law, and take away your coat, let him have your cloak also.
5:41 And whosoever shall compel you to go a mile, go with him two.
5:42 Give to him that asks you, and from him that would borrow of you turn you not away.
5:43 You have heard that it has been said, You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy.
5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for those who despitefully use you, and persecute you;
-davesAs usual daves you present lieberal lies as the truth. Lieberals are not those who are generous to others, in fact, lieberals are considerably less generous in giving to charity than conservatives. All of those in my church who are involved in our food pantries are fairly conservative and NONE are lieberals. Also, Jesus never, never advocated stealing from others to help the poor and He never, never advocated helping the slothful. The fact is, lieberalism leads to poverty and suffering because lieberals such as yourself want a permanent class of poor people to demand the government "services" off which you parasites feed. I would suspect that the average conservative gives several times to charity what a lying parasite such as yourself gives and I am certain that the conservative truly wants to see the poor succeed rather than become permanent clients of your wothless lieberal programs. Finally, to misuse Scripture is a sin as you will learn someday.
-BobseeksWhat facts do you have to backup what you are saying?
-davesdaves, can you explain how these verses justify the liberal tendency to be generous with other people's money?
-Ken? I have never taken another persons money for anything.
-davesWell said, Bobseeks…………All liberals are atheists…..but all atheists are not liberal.
-KennethTrue, unfortunately some conservatives are also deluded by the lies of satan.
-BobseeksIf your religion
is just a smidgen
different than ours than get off the bus.
We vote for pro life
-davescontrol our own wives
we know that God votes only for us.
Jesus said, "Do not be a fence walker, you are either with me or against me." There's no in-between. Read the Bible, and get informed.
-WinstonI don't find your quote anywhere in the New Testament, the apocryphal gospels (Thomas, Peter, Judas, Mary), or the Agrapha. Did you make it up? Or have you received a new revelation?
-SteveJesus did say "He that is not against us is on our part" (Mark 9:40) and "He that is not against us is for us" (Luke 9:50 ) and "He that is not with me is against me" (Luke 11:23) as well as "He that is not with me is against me" (Matthew 12:30). So it would appear that there's at least a 50:50 chance that there is an in-between, and that it counts as being with Jesus.
Winston is quite accurate in what he is saying – there is no in between; you either are of GOD or you are of satan. If you deny that, you are ignorant of what Scripture teaches.
-BobseeksThus spake Zarathustra, not Jesus. Again, show me the scripture that says "Do not be a fence walker," and I'll believe you know what you're talking about.
-SteveYou are either living in delusion or the real world. Mythological deities have nothing to do with it.
-Jeff DixonSo you don't know where it says "don't be a fence walker" either!
-SteveWhat did Jesus teach about abortion?
-davesOr homosexuality?
-davesYou shall not lay with a man as with a woman daves – read the Bible, it was written by GOD.
-BobseeksJESUS disciple Paul says in
Romans 1:24-27
24: Wherefore GOD also give them up to uncleanness through the lust of of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves
25: Who changed the truth of GOD into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the CREATOR, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26: For this cause GOD gave them up unto vile affections; for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27: And likewise also the men , leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward one another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet
JESUS disciple Timothy said in
1Tim 1:10: For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers (kidnappers), for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; according to the glorious gospel of the blessed GOD. which was committed to my trust.
On abortion HE said,"Thou shall not kill"
-MyrtlelinderThou shall not kill – read the Bible daves.
-Bobseeksbobseeks wrote: "Thou shall not kill – read the Bible"
The book where God kills a LOT of people? The same book where he literally drowns every living thing except a choice few? ~That~ bible?
-jatheistYes. That one. The one where he sanitized the world from excessive sin for the rest of to live in peace.
-MexseikoThou shalt not sanitize! LOL
Frame it any way you wish – the same dude you claim made the rule "no killing" does a hell of a lot of killing in the very same story book containing the rules…
-jatheistjatheist, unless you're a Janist or something, I think you're being deliberately obtuse over the word "kill" in order to yank everyones' chain.
-KenSo pointing out the obvious double standard of the Christian God is being "obtuse"? If not a double standard – the Christian God certainly doesn't lead a good example when it comes to the "thou shalt not kill" commandment…
-jatheistNot at all, I'm just observing that there are different connotations to the word "kill." There's "kill" in the sense of Charles Manson vs. "kill" in the context of a soldier defending his country for example.
-KenI agree there Ken… did God make any destinctions when he made his rule? I don't think He did but I might be mistaken. It happens, although rarely!
-jatheistjatheist, I'm thinking He did based on the idea that the 6th commandment is addressed to individuals but apparently not to nations or other entities granted the power to take life under certain circumstances.
Otherwise there's no sense in God saying to the Israelites "Thou shalt not kill" and then turning around and telling them to make war on the Amalekites or the Philistines or whoever….and there's no distinction between, say, Charles Manson and Robert E. Lee.
-KenKen wrote: "I'm thinking He did based on the idea that the 6th commandment is addressed to individuals but apparently not to nations or other entities…"
I see what you're getting at… of course by not ~ever~ mentioning "nations or other entities" you're engaging in guess work as to what He meant for them.
Ken cont'd: "Otherwise there's no sense in God saying to the Israelites…"
Gasp! You mean there are parts of the bible that don't make sense?!?!
I chalk up the inconsistencies in the bible to the people that wrote it and the times in which it was written. There are too many places where it contradicts itself (like the part you cite here), and it takes far too much mental gymnastics to make it conform to reality, for me to accept it was divinely inspired in any way…
-jatheistMental gymastics? You have no problem with such gymnastics when trying to "prove" some point of atheist liars. Anyway, it doesn't take mental gymnastics to understand the Bible and the "inconsistencies" are nothing more than the product of corrupted man's limited ability to comprehend that which is not corrupted. If you want to see mental gymnastics, read the idiocy of darwin.
-BobseeksActually, there are a lot of instances in the Bible (check out some of the prophetic books) where God judges nations…but really it's a book for the individual.
Funny but I don't see an inconsistency in "Thou shalt not kill" versus commands to make war, any more than I see an inconsistency in a murderer being condemned for his actions versus a soldier getting a medal.
That said, if I told you that I never scratched my head over some of what I read in the Bible then I'd be guilty of breaking another commandment.
-Ken@Ken:
Out of curiousity – the story of Abraham comes to mind and I'd like your take on it… God tells Abraham to murder (no 2 ways about it!) his son Isaac… it turns out to just be a joke (ha!) but how does this reconcile with "thou shalt not kill"? Is it ok to kill if God asks you to do it?
This always struck me as a pretty morally repugnant story with nothing ethical to draw from… what do you think? Imagine this story were true… what would Isaac think as he's tied down on a woodpile by his own father? Imagine the mental suffering being inflicted here!!
-jatheist"Abraham said, where you want this killing done, God said out on Highway 61…"
OK my friend, with a handle like jatheist I know you're going to have a hard time with this one, but here's my take for what it's worth…
-Ken–God miraculously gives Abraham a son, Isaac,
– God promises Abraham that he would have unnumbered descendants through Isaac; Abraham takes God at His word (well, sort of, there's that little episode earlier with Hagar & Ishmael)
–God then tells Abraham to sacrifice Isaac….
–Abraham's thinking what the heck, what about the unnumbered descendants?
–But then Abraham figures by faith (there I go with the f-word) that God's going to keep His promise because He is who He is, he just doesn't see how He's going to pull it off….besides, God is unchanging and He's not going to break His own law.
–So he's ready to do the deed when sure enough, God stays his hand.
Now we get into the whole thing of whether God pre-ordained this outcome in the first place, but I can see your eyes rolling even as you read this, so I think I'd better take a break…
Thanks Ken… I appreciate you taking the time to explain your take on it. Cheers!
-jatheistOf course, the emotional trauma that the son would have experienced so that god could make a point is irrelevant. Who cares if a young child is scarred because he believes his father is actually going to kill him?
We must look at the big picture here. And the big picture is that god did not give a rats ass about how this would screw with a kids mind.
-Jeff DixonInteresting point….Genesis is silent on what Isaac thought of all this, although its account of his life doesn't indicate any big trauma. But since Oprah wasn't around back then ("This week — Kids almost sacrificed by their dads"), I guess we'll never know
-KenLOL Ken!
For me, I'm just thankful that the bible is so obviously not a collection of ~true~ stories… and that this episode most certainly didn't occur. Otherwise there is no question – a child that believed his father was about to burn him alive would most certainly be messed up from it.
-jatheistOnce again you show your essentially dishonest nature by referring to morals derived from no rational basis. You also show the innate narcism and arrogance of those tiny minds that cannot conceive of anything greater than themselves and/or presume to judge GOD. You have no basis for referring to morality because you have no basis for determining what is or isn't moral other than you witless belief in "social constructs" derived from the ether of some mystical communion of men. That last part makes you sound almost religious to me JA.
-BobseeksWell, bobbie, I am glad to see you posting more inane nonsense. Never let it be said that when there is nonsensical idiocy being posted, that you were not driven to add to the nonsense.
-Jeff DixonKen: Jatheist cannot make an argument, therefore he yanks chains and runs off at the mouth. Soon he will be joined by his idiot twin little jeffie.
-BobseeksWe are not twins. jatheist uses logic with a touch of humor. I am humorous with a touch of logic. Or maybe it is the reverse of that. But it is not the same at all.
-Jeff DixonAnother LOL moment in the same thread!! Thanks Jeff… laughing is fun!
-jatheistYou and daves make a good pair – you both pervert the intent of Scripture to advance your lies. GOD has the right to exact justice on humans as He sees fit and cannot be judged by any human, particullarly a pathetic example such as yourself.
-BobseeksThe scriptures have done an amazing job of being perverted all by themselves.
(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
(Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."
-Jeff DixonThat is GOD's right because He is GOD and cannot be judged by such as yourself or anyone else. Besides that, as you well know, the intent is to prohibit murder, not justice. We are all sinners and we are all worthy of death, you atheist fools will die and we believers will be saved by grace. You and daves make a good pair – you are both ignorant, you both take Scripture out of context, you both twist the truth, and you will both reap the seed you have sown someday.
-BobseeksBobseeks wrote: "That is GOD's right because He is GOD and cannot be judged by such as yourself or anyone else."
So I've been told… I still can't believe adults are so willing to give god(s) a free pass when the god(s) act in such immoral ways.
Bobseeks cont'd: "We are all sinners and we are all worthy of death"
Speak for yourself! I'm no "sinner" (I don't believe in "sin"), and I certianly don't think I deserve to die for your imagined "sins".
-jatheistYou are a sinner because you are a lying atheist and you will be judged. Whether or not you believe that is irrelevant.
-BobseeksJA: By the way, how can you accuse GOD of being immoral if you do not believe in sin? And, how can you even use the term immoral when you have no basis other than your obviously limited intellect to form a basis for what is moral or immoral?
-BobseeksBob asked: "how can you accuse GOD of being immoral if you do not believe in sin?"
Because morality is a social construct society uses to gauge an act or thought. Sin is a religious invention intended to shame people into believing they need redemption. Apples and oranges.
Doesn't it concern you that various different Christian sects have clashing views of morality – yet they all derive their morality from the same book? Doesn't that kinda prove (in the lose sense of the word) that morals are relative?
-jatheistTypical imbecile, when you can't make an argument you retreat into semantics. Immorality is sin, you just cannot make an argument otherwise. Your reference to social constructs marks youi as one who is weak minded enough to accept standards derived from the minds of people who, for the most part, cannot even balance their checkbooks. Christians do not disagree on any point of morallity, you are referring to psuedo-Christians who do not hold to Scripture. Once again you show that you are essentially a liar and a fool. By the way, do you follow the "social constructs" of the atheist gods hitler, stalin, mao, pol pot and the rest of the atheist trendsetters or do you follow some other atheist social construct like maybe those derived by charlie manson?
-BobseeksNo, the reality is that when you are confronted by logic, you try to run away by calling it semantics.
-Jeff DixonQuod licet Iovi non licet bovi? A good Biblical precept — I didn't know Terence was counted among the prophets! "Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?"
-SteveBobseeks. That was written before Jesus. Maybe you should read the Bible.
-davesWhy would he want to upset his view of what he thinks the bible says by actually reading the bible?
-Jeff DixonA Christian supports government as long as they are not asked to do something that is contrary to God's will. Problem is with government leadership who step in and try to take advantage of those under him. This leads to excessive taxation and other abuses. What I really dislike is that government takes upon itself the task of helping the poor and needy, the ill etc. Nowhere in the Bible does it advocate that this is a task for government. Everywhere the Bible admonishes individuals that that is their individual duty, to care for and defend the poor, the helpless, the widdows, etc.
-aceitunaSo you support the use of coercion and violence to enforce morality on others? Is that what Jesus would do?
-Deep_ThinkerRead the royal psalms and the prophets — they're not just talking about Jesus. They're telling the actual king human (that is, the government) to do his duty to help the poor, protect the weak and the alien, ensure honest weights and measures, enforce contracts and oaths, and render impartial justice to all. "Bring the tithes into the storehouse" didn't mean give money to the church — it meant to surrender 10% of the grain harvest to the state. The state used it to support the king and his court, the army, the priests, and the poor. In times of famine, the stored grain fed everybody. The New Testament is largely silent on the subject, not because Jesus didn't want the government to continue those functions but because neither he nor the Christians of the first three centuries were in charge of the government.
-SteveJESUS was mentioned many times in the Old Testament. For instance, try Isaiah 53!
-MyrtlelinderQuote one verse that the prophets command theft and violence to help the poor.. Of course a Christian would want to help the poor, and of course we need someone to defend us and protect us, but what you and many others have failed to understand is the Hobbesian myth of collective defense. Protection is a good like any other in the economy, and the market can provide it. Also, nowhere does the Bible advocate we must give to the government…
-Deep_Thinker