Women bishops a step closer after Church of England vote
In a blow to Anglo–Catholic and conservative evangelical wings, the church’s national assembly rejected a move to water down the authority of future female bishops.
The vote is a major step on the road to accepting women into the episcopacy almost 20 years after the ordination of the first female priests.
Parishes and dioceses have already showed strong support for ordaining women as bishops. But a significant minority of traditionalists cannot accept arrangements for the authority of a woman bishop on theological grounds.
They say they would be forced to leave the Church of England and have appealed for some traditionalist parishes be placed under the authority of a male bishop.
A compromise deal tabled by the Manchester diocese proposed creating male so-called “co–ordinate” bishops which would satisfy many traditionalists.
Continue reading at www.telegraph.co.uk
Now maybe if the church stops requiring celibacy we can move on to teaching Christ's word.
I saw a show a while back that claimed the celibacy requirement came about around the 8th century over property rights. Before that, priests were allowed to be married but when they died their property went to their wives instead of the church and the church was losing money in the deal.
-davesI'd believe that, actually. One thing's for certain: I don't recall a single Scripture that forbids church leaders to marry.
-Linda F.There is no such scripture. Celibacy is a contrivance employed by the Catholic Church to avoid having to support a priest's wife and children. End of story.
-bighossI'm shocked at the level of ignorance here. Have you even read the bible?
It is well for a man not to touch a woman… I wish that all were as I myself am.
CORINTHIANS 7:1-7
It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are chaste; it is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes; these have been redeemed from mankind as first fruits for God and the Lamb.
REVELATION 14:4
If you really want the Truth – after reading protestant attacks also read the Catholic explanation and then decide.
-HurricaneIn the New Testament, however, the choice of whether or not to be celibate is a choice of the individual and NOT a dictate of the church. Those scriptures you cite offer NO support whatsoever for celibacy enforced by ecclesiastical fiat.
-bighossThe Church of England/Anglican/Episcopal does not, nor ever did (to my knowledge) require celebacy of its priests. You're confusing it with the Roman Catholic apostates. That said, the now non-celebate Anglicans are apostate for acceptance of practicing homosexuals in the priesthood and same-sex marriages amongst those homosexuals, and the apostate practice of allowing women in the priesthood which is contrary to God's instructive mandate on church authority qualifications for Bishop/Elders, Deacons, priests.
-WinstonThere are no scriptures regarding a woman as a bishop; only men:
Episkopos – guardian, overseer – not bishop – of the congregation as the chief policy maker for the local church. Policy should be based on the Word of God. He establishes policy through the truth of Bible Doctrine. He delegates authority to the spiritually mature administers and deacons.
Philippians 1:1 Paul and Timothy, bond-servants of Christ Jesus, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, including the overseers (Pastor-teacher) and deacons:
I Timothy 3:1-3 (KJV) This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desires a good work.
A bishop then must be blameless, the HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
I Tim 3:1-3 (NASV) It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.
-msjallenAMEN! Such apostasy is running amock in "Christendom" and God will judge those denominations for "doing what is right in their own eyes, yet it leads to (spiritual) destruction". When will sincere Christians stand against such apostasy and excommunicate (remove from the true Church) all these apostates because they've left their first love and are no longer Christian.
-WinstonAll for the sake of liberalism. Since these liberals are more convinced by the word of men verse the Word of God, maybe these men can get them into heaven as well. No, my comment is not blasphemy. I'm simply pointing out how liberals "cherry pick" the Bible at their convenience.
-StephenAnd Paul, as an Apostle, was equal in rank to a bishop, though unmarried (it is disputed whether he was celibate his entire life or a widower, but he had no wife the entire time he was a Christian). Paul also taught that celibacy was superior to marriage. In no way can Paul's words be interpreted as disqualifying the celibate from ordination. Rather, it means that to be ordained, a man must be married at most once. If he is unmarried when ordained, he is not to seek a wife. If he is married, he can continue to live in holy matrimony with his wife, but if she dies, he cannot take another wife. A divorced man is not to be considered for ordination, and neither is a former polygamist.
-myth busterThat's an untruth which you state. Biblical teaching addresses "remaining single/unmarried" only if you do not have the desire to marry or to have children for the reason to be of more service to the Lord without distractions which marriage does bring. God would NOT have created marriage otherwise.
-WinstonWhat do you mean "not bishop?" Bishop is simply the English word derived from the Greek word "episkopos." Yes, it means "overseer," meaning it does not refer to pastors, but rather to those who oversee pastors. A pastor is the most senior presbyter in a congregation; a bishop oversees many congregations- generally all those in a single city and its surroundings, though large cities may have more than one bishop, and sometimes the surroundings include smaller cities nearby. All bishops are presbyters, but only a handful of presbyters are bishops. Only a bishop has the authority to ordain bishops, presbyters and deacons- neither a deacon nor a presbyter can be ordained by a presbyter who is not a bishop. A pastor may indeed by allowed by his bishop to choose his successor, but only if the successor is already a presbyter; he cannot make a deacon or a layman into a presbyter for any reason.
-myth busterProperty interpreted, the role of Bishop/Elder and Deacon are the only authoritative roles in the Church, and Bishop/Elder (overseer) has church authority over spiritual matters while Deacons have church authority over temporal matters (church treasury, maintenance, etc.). The role of "pastor" is not authoritative but is a spiritual gift and the pastor falls under church plural authority of Bishop/Elder and Deacons, just as church members do. The problem with "pastors" wrongly given authority over members is they can easily become a Nicolaitan (such as in the Catholic church) and Jesus states that he hates the work of the Nicolaitans.
-WinstonThis just shows how apostate the Church of England is. This is another, and maybe fatal blow that will drive the Anglo-Catholics out of the Church and towards Rome or Orthodoxy, where nonsenical practices such as this do not exist.. The Church of Englad will keep going down the road of liberalism until no-one is left. Someone turn out the lights when it is all over.
-spiritofthe20sProtestantism
-Robert De LeonThere is a big paradox in the case of the protestant movement. Former Catholics from XVI century tried to reform the Catholic Church and in the end they reformed – and still are reforming – themselves. In the end they were only “deformers” as well.
Now there are two kinds of Christian Protestants. Those who misguided by the heretic errors from Luther, Calvin, Zwinglio, Knox, Queen Elizabeth I et al, believe in the Bible as the “Word of the Lord” (Catholics believe the same) and believe that Jesus Christ is our Savior as well (Catholics believe the same). After almost five centuries these separated brethren do not have any blame, they follow a false doctrine ignoring precisely that it’s false. They should go back to the origins, read the Bible carefully and reasoning it. They have to stop saying: “Jesus said this but He meant…” They have to stop reducing the Bible to a 10 pages booklet. They have to stop interpreting by themselves all what the Bible says. The Word of the Lord it’s not a matter of interpretation. Otherwise no wonder there are thousands of “biblical and evangelical” churches.
Aside of being heretic, protestant churches from XVI Century tried to divide Christ’s Body in several pieces, breaking the unity needed for survival.
The second kind of Biblical and Evangelical persons are those that carry his/her Bible, think that he/she was illuminated by the Holy Spirit and declares himself/herself a “Pastor”. Invites several people to read the Bible and – eureka – we have a new “biblical church”. Thus – as I said before – just in America we can find more than 35,000 Christian, biblical and evangelical “churches”.
So sad! What an offense to Almighty God!
Our Catholic Church is the only one Religion founded by our Dear Lord Jesus Christ, God Himself and is rooted on the Bible The rest of religions were founded by men and therefore as imperfect as men.
I invite you to make a deep – a very deep – study on Catholic Faith, Her 20 centuries tradition and rich History and with God’s will protestant people will be back home. Do not hate the Catholic Faith, rather understand her, and just as Our Dear Lord said, love her.
Robert.
I see that you conveniently omit any reference to the foul worship of mary the fertility goddess mary and all the little demi-gods you call "saints" and to whom you blasphemously pray. The truth is the roman church is a sewer of false teaching and is not a part of Christendom but "pagandom". Yes, Christianity has its false teachers, and all who ordain women or homosexuals are false teaches and apostates but, at least we don't make women semi-divine, we don't place the writings of heretic popes on the same level of authority as Scripture, we don't worship idols, and we don't lie about miracles to make demi-gods out of ordinary men and women. Jesus did not found the roman church, satan did and He will judge the lying, heretic popes when the time comes.
-BobseeksI defy you to name me one Catholic who thinks the saints of heaven are demi-gods. Neither do we worship idols, though I can see how someone who denies the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist could make that mistake.
Scripture says that whoever consumes the Eucharist unworthily is guilty of profaning the Body and Blood of the Lord. How could this be were the Lord not truly present? And how else could we possibly eat His Flesh and drink His Blood, which He says we must do if we are to have life? If you insist He was merely speaking in metaphor, not metaphysical reality, then why did He repeat Himself instead of clarifying? Do you also reject the notion that "If any man is in Christ, he is a new creation?" For that is what you must do if you are to be consistent, because the only other place Jesus repeated Himself when someone was confused was when He told Nicodemus about the second birth. If the Eucharist is merely a metaphor, and Christ not truly present, then the second birth is also a metaphor, and no man is a new creation despite putting on Christ.
-myth busterRobert, the sad part is that YOU are not willing to check out the Word of God and what it says but rather believe what man has made up through those 20 centuries that most RCC doctrines are not even in the Bible. You expect people on this site to check out your beliefs (and I have checked out previous post with scriptures that turn out not to be Biblical towards your beliefs) but you are not willing to check out the truth of the Word of God apart from Catholicism. Just one: No where in the Bible does it say a minister or clergy can't marry. It does say they are to have one wife. Since the RCC claims that Peter was the first Pope — well guess what — Peter was married. Such fallacies need to be checked out. There are many more but you refuse or deny them apart from what the Bible says. Like the Mormons, the RCC have their own bible.
-msjallenAnd neither is it the position of the Roman Catholic Church that married men cannot be ordained. It's just rare for a married man to be ordained a presbyter, and unheard of in recent times for a married man to be ordained a bishop, though it happened in centuries past. We regularly ordain married men as deacons, and married deacons and presbyters are free to continue having relations with their wives. However, per the one wife restriction, clergymen swear off taking a wife in the future. If a single man enters the clergy, he agrees never to take a wife. If a married man enters the clergy, he agrees that he will live with his wife as long as they both live, but if she predeceases him, he shall remain a widower the rest of his life.
-myth busterYou are on shaky ground defending a church that forbids its priests to marry when the New Testament explicitly states these things:
I Timothy 3:1-3 (KJV) This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desires a good work.
A bishop then must be blameless, the HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
I Tim 3:1-3 (NASV) It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.
-bighossAmen Robert! The Lord be with you and your spirit!
-HurricaneWhat farce is this? A woman cannot be validly ordained a presbyter, let alone a bishop. At least self-appointed "bishops" don't make a mockery of the Holy Orders by having bishops endorse them.
-myth busterIt amazes me when people are presented what the Bible clearly says they are not willing to do things God's way. Man has always wanted to do things their way just like Satan in eternity past.
-msjallenEpiskopos – guardian, overseer – not bishop – of the congregation as the chief policy maker for the local church. Policy should be based on the Word of God. He establishes policy through the truth of Bible Doctrine. The guardian/overseer delegates authority to the spiritually mature administers and deacons.
Philippians 1:1 Paul and Timothy, bond-servants of Christ Jesus, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, including the overseers (Pastor-teacher) and deacons:
So, you have given up everything you own then????? Jesus is very clear about this.
Luke 14:33
Any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple.
Matthew 6:24
No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and Money.
Matthew 19:21-24
-Jeff DixonJesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
msjallen wrote: "It amazes me when people are presented what the Bible clearly says they are not willing to do things God's way."
It amazes me when people are presented what the Koran clearly says they are not willing to do things God's way.
It amazes me when people are presented what the Vedas clearly says they are not willing to do things God's way.
I choose to ignore the words of the bible because I don't believe there has ever been a god or god(s) – therefore the bible is clearly not the words of God.
-jatheistNow you're just being deliberately annoying. The OP was clearly assuming that the people in question were purporting to be Christians, as the Anglicans are, yet refusing to do what the Bible instructs. I would not be surprised in the slightest that you do not conform to the Bible because you reject it; what is shocking is that people who call themselves Christian refuse to conform themselves to the Bible when they are called out on their misbehavior.
-myth busterNo, he is correctly pointing out that there are many books written by men that say they are the word of god. However, there is no reason, other than desire, to accept that any of them actually are.
-Jeff Dixon