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davidcoppedge

Former NASA specialist claims he was fired over intelligent design

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory has landed robotic explorers on the surface of Mars, sent probes to outer planets and operates a worldwide network of antennas that communicates with interplanetary spacecraft.

Its latest mission is defending itself in a workplace lawsuit filed by a former computer specialist who claims he was demoted — and then let go — for promoting his views on intelligent design, the belief that a higher power must have had a hand in creation because life is too complex to have developed through evolution alone.

David Coppedge, who worked as a "team lead" on the Cassini mission exploring Saturn and its many moons, alleges that he was discriminated against because he engaged his co-workers in conversations about intelligent design and handed out DVDs on the idea while at work. Coppedge lost his "team lead" title in 2009 and was let go last year after 15 years on the mission.

Opening statements are expected to begin Monday in Los Angeles Superior Court after two years of legal wrangling in a case that has generated interest among supporters of intelligent design. The Alliance Defense Fund, a Christian civil rights group, and the Discovery Institute, a proponent of intelligent design, are both supporting Coppedge's case.

Continue reading at www.foxnews.com
 
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  • Bobseeks

    The liars and myth-spinners of the evolution con cannot afford to have the truth rear its ugly (to them) head. I don't see how NASA can get away with this because David's beliefs have nothing to do with the work of NASA. This is nothing less than the evo-nazis oppressing someone who doesn't buy the lies of darwin.

    • Cheri

      Notice the year 2009, who was new President. I'm posting who the man really is. Lot's of info. but worth every minute of your time. http://terribletruth.wordpress.com/2011/11/02/bar…
      http://terribletruth.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/oba…
      http://octaman.com/comments/MalcolmO.html

      He is a fraud, rather than ineligible. The dirty secret finally is out. Jo Ann Newman is Ob's real mother and Communist Fred Newman is his Uncle and how he rose to his position.

      • Bobseeks

        I knew that maobama was evil the instant I heard he was a democrat, no other proof was necessary. I will check out the link though, thanks.

      • bighoss

        WARNING–BIRTHER MADNESS!

        Cheri's post, above, is about the zaniest I have yet seen on the purported origins of the current President of the United States and Commander in Chief of Her Armed Forces, the Honorable Barack Hussein Obama. Unless you are prepared to submit to the fairy-tale silliness of a rancid, insupportable fabrication that identifies the President as the offspring of Malcolm X and some woman named Jo Ann Newman, you would be wise to skip this link and do something more worthwhile such as watching paint dry.

        • Vladimir

          Bighoss, calm down. You're going to give yourself a stroke and deprive the rest of us of a lot of free laughs.

          • Bobseeks

            I don't need to go anywhere else for laughs, watching bighoss trying to make us believe he is a Christian is funny enough.

          • bighoss

            My post was composed during a period of quiet reflection and calm deliberation. My constantly-recording blood pressure monitor disclosed that my blood pressure actually fell by several points during the effort. I actually had to prod myself to stay awake, so relaxed was I. Most of the time I am so calm, cool and collected that my feet seldom touch the ground as I walk from point to point in the 10-acre meditation garden that adjoins my house.

            If you need laughs, then you can find plenty to laugh about at the http://terribletruth.wordpress.com web site that Cheri provided.

        • Bobseeks

          The "honorable" maobama is a liar, a murderer, a promoter of sexual immorality and perversion, a promoter of sloth and irresponsible behavior, and just a general, all-around degenerate, What does that say for his worshippers, bighoss? Can you say hypocrite and anti-Christ?

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Which president has outlawed abortion, homosexual activity or refused to pay people welfare? If you condemn Obama, then you condemn every president who has allowed them. Yet you focus only on Obama. I am not an Obama supporter, but you are the actual hypocrite, bobbiesocks. Which is of little surprise.

          • Bobseeks

            As usual your "argument" is a false argument that shows your consumately dishonest nature. Maobama actively promotes abortion, perversion, and welfare. GOP presidents do not. And, because maobama is the president now, there is no point in speaking of past democrat presidents (even though they are just as guilty as maobama). Also, to show your hypocrisy and sleazy nature, you are the one who first pointed out to me that bighoss is a supporter of maobama in order to start this argument. You shift from side to side like the sleazy little snake that you are hoping that we forget your numerous lies and hypocritical acts. Of course, this is all to be expected from a degenerate, blind, uneducated follower of the false god "Self". And, you are a maobama supporter because all who support evil, support maobama and you support evil every time you post.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            They have also not stopped them from occurring. Presidents do not make law, Congress does. Presidents either accept it or veto it, but they do not have the power to change existing laws. And that includes the Republicans as well as the Democrats. You should read up on the Constitution. It would be more beneficial to understanding how this country actual works than your absurd bible verses.

          • keyboardshark

            Ever hear of Executive Orders? Obama uses them to the hilt to bypass Congress, which SHOULD be making the laws.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/o…

            This is a link that shows Executive Orders that George Bush made. They did not start with Obama.

            Here are ones that Reagan issued,
            http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executiv…

            And Clinton
            http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executiv…

          • keyboardshark

            I don't have a problem with Executive Orders per se. It is the misuse of EO's where the President clearly bypasses Congress concerning a matter that Congress intended to vote on or should have been given the opportunity to vote on. Obama's predecessors were also guilty of this misuse, but not on the level that Obama has done:

            " President Obama increasingly is using his executive authority to move his policies forward when confronted with congressional opposition.

            The administration chose not to defend the federal Defense of Marriage Act banning gay marriage, and Obama bypassed military tribunals and the Guantánamo Bay prison in Cuba to send an accused terrorist from Somalia to a U.S. civilian court.

            The latter effort is seen as a backdoor way to circumvent congressional opposition to civilian trials for terrorism suspects.

            Obama has also granted immigration officers greater latitude when deciding whether to deport illegal immigrants, and has determined the War Powers Resolution requiring congressional authorization for military actions does not apply to the intervention he ordered in Libya.

            Most recently, Capitol Hill has been abuzz with the possibility that Obama could bypass its authority altogether and raise the debt ceiling using the so-called “14th Amendment solution.”

            Like other presidents before him, Obama is using executive authority after being rebuffed by a Congress controlled by the other party. Republicans enjoy a large majority in the House, and they are on the rise in the Senate.

            The aggressive steps by Obama have prompted criticism from Rep. Lamar Smith (R-Texas), the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee.

            “Our Founders created a system of checks and balances to prevent any one branch of government from having too much power over the people,” said Smith in a statement to The Hill.

            “Unfortunately, it appears that the president has little respect for the laws passed by Congress or the will of the American people. If the president’s abuse of executive authority continues unchecked, it could set a very dangerous precedent for future presidents and seriously weaken our democratic system.”

            The White House declined to comment for this article." http://patdollard.com/2011/07/obama-increasingly-…

          • bighoss

            There was no need for Jeff or anyone else to "point out" my support of and esteem for the President of the United States and Commander in Chief of Her Armed Forces, the Honorable and Patriotic American, Barack Hussein Obama. I have often made it clear within this forum where my current political loyalties lie.

          • Rezon1

            Jeff,

            Great talking to you.

            I'm outta here and going to http://www.conserveind.com

    • robert

      Darwin and Obama are both Compleate Ieliterates whin it comes to trouth.

      • Chris

        As against you who cannot even spell or type correctly.

        • http://youtu.be/SLlvGDFVsf0 Despeville

          Seems that your aynol obsession with catching typos and spelling mistakes is the only ability (albeit pretend one) you present… Same as Dr.RedNEck Dixon.

          Educate yourself about what you hold to:

          Darwin's Heretic: Did the Co-Founder of Evolution Embrace Intelligent Design?

          LINK: http://youtu.be/hxvAVln6H

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Your link says this: The URL contained a malformed video ID.

            However, scientific theories are not determined by whether one person accepts it or not. They are not determined by whether one person has a contradictory viewpoint on the issue. They are determined by the evidence. And the evidence supports evolution.

          • Bobseeks

            Only to those who do twist the evidence to suit their predetermined outcome. Can you say Piltdown man?

          • http://youtu.be/SLlvGDFVsf0 Despeville

            Check this Bobby: http://www.darwinsheretic.com

            I am not endorsing this but this is a historical story most gullible and under-educated atheists like Dixon are completely ignorant about yet they bet they worldview on it and its "originator" :)

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            The fraud was discovered by other scientists. Science is a self correcting discipline. Someone may try to pass off a fraud, but if it cannot stand up to scrunity, it gets rejected. Unlike religion, which requires that the most idiotic views be accepted as "truth".

          • Bobseeks

            Can you say cold fusion jeffie?

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Can you be more specific, bobbiesocks?

          • Rezon1

            And who discovered and exposed Piltdown Man as a hoax?

            Was it creationists?

            No!

            Was it preachers?

            No!

            Was it Archaeologists who accepted the overwhelming Scientific Evidence supporting the Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection?

            Yes!

            Hard to argue with facts, but I expect some will try, while most will just ignore my post.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            People on here lie for Jesus as a reflex reaction.

          • http://youtu.be/SLlvGDFVsf0 Despeville

            Your eyes or computer is malformed… :) Others already seen it and just fine.
            Here it is Dixon: http://youtu.be/zLx0QdSwgsg

            So do you have a thousand dollars for me? Darwin's theory was not Darwin's to begin with… Do some research with Google Oracle Dixi.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Just tried it again and it still says the same thing. I will try it again later when I get home. And what are you babbling on about now? What thousand dollars? Was that on the link I cannot view?

          • http://youtu.be/SLlvGDFVsf0 Despeville

            I am talking about the fact that you were not aware that Darwin's Theory is not Darwin's…
            Sorry that the link does not work. Must be comp set up at your business.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Please show me where I claimed that the theory of evolution came only from Darwin.

          • http://youtu.be/SLlvGDFVsf0 Despeville

            Every time you have defended it…

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            In other words, you cannot support your comment. Again.

            And I tried your link on my home computer and it still says the same thing. The URL contained a malformed video ID.

            Not really a surprise either.

    • Chris

      He didn't work for NASA. Fool.

    • Rezon1

      Read the entire article.

      Coppedge was harassing his fellow employees and wasting their time while they were trying to do their jobs.

      He wasn't fired. He was laid off because the project he was working on was finished. 246 other employees in that department were also laid off.

      And that is according to Fox News.

  • Boru44

    Wow…We've come a long way since Gallileo, huh?….Then, the power brokers of the time tried to suppress scientific truth from the believers in fear that the truth would somehow destroy their faith. Now the power brokers of this time want to suppress faith because they are afraid it will somehow destroy scientific discovery…Both are wrong, the greatest gift that God has given man is intellect…intellect should always be balanced with faith, lest we lose humility and think ourselves gods..we should be free to pursue science AND faith. Scientific theories like Darwin's are just that …THEORY…Religious faith is just that… FAITH. Neither one can ever be PROVEN.

    • Linda F.

      Actually, the greatest gift God has given man is life. More specifically, life everlasting through faith in Christ.

      • http://twitter.com/lambsev11 @lambsev11

        Amen to that Sister!__

      • msjallen

        Linda, you have the correct answer above any other. Thank God for His uniquely born Son who gives us salvation, peace of mind, happiness under all circumstances for His grace is sufficient and eternal life with Him.

      • Boru44

        I agree. I should have said that "one of the gifts God has given us is intellect". I was trying to make a point about the article above, not preach. Our intellect puts us high above all creatures on this planet, our connection to Christ puts us in a unique position in the hereafter. I was speaking to the faithful as well as the secular above. God Bless.

  • Troublemaker

    Is this surprising, coming from a Godless communist regime that has hijacked the nation. You can expect much worse if this regime is left to carry out it's mission of taking down this Republic and replacing it with the intended totalitarian oligarchy that is fastly becoming. It is time to take the gloves off, the conventional way is not working as the peoples voices are silenced by communist judges that negate the electorates intentions as they vote to correct the tyranny being imposed by this Muslim-Marxist and his communist regime with state referendums that are persistently being negated.

    • msjallen

      Yes, but the ONLY way this country will survive is when people will turn back to God and His Word.
      Nahum 1:3 – The LORD is slow to anger and great in power And the LORD will by no means leave the guilty unpunished. In whirlwind and storm is His way, and clouds are the dust beneath His feet.
      Jeremiah 17:5 -Thus says the LORD, “Cursed is the man who trusts in mankind and makes flesh his strength, and whose heart turns away from the LORD.
      Ephesians 6:10 -Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
      As Christians, we are mandated to follow God’s Word to live the Christian way of life. This is the only thing that will strengthen our Nation so God will bless us.

  • Enrico

    Here is a ticklish question to ask evolutionists. At what point in a series of random events does the event no longer become random? Then ask another related question, Why?

    • Chris

      Evolution isn't "Random". If you knew what evolution was you wouldn't say that.

      • Bobseeks

        If it is not random, then it must be guided by something. That something is GOD.

      • Bagui

        Two schools of thought weighed in on the debate early on. Catastrophism, or earthly disasters modified species, or
        geology, to force adaptation. That takes us to adaptation, albeit, an organism benignly adjusts its behavior and life to sudden, or even gradual environmental changes. Sounds like what we do after disasters, or adverse political situations, like the geopolitical influences of Atheistic Humanism,Communist Marxism and Islamic Fundamentalism.
        It does not look like humans have learned enough to adapt, or learn from its self-centered mistakes in history. It does
        not look good for the human species, so extinction is apparently due for cleansing pollution off this planet.

        • aceituna

          Micro evolution, adapting to circumstances and the enviornment, does occur, but macro evollution as taught in schools and first esposed by Darwin, and even further back in the past is one of Satan's lies.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            There is no difference between micro and macro evolution. They both occur with accumulated mutations.

          • http://youtu.be/SLlvGDFVsf0 Despeville

            Here is what most gullible atheist do not know…

            Darwin's Heretic: Did the Co-Founder of Evolution Embrace Intelligent Design?

            LINK: http://youtu.be/hxvAVln6H

    • keyboardshark

      Mutations cannot happen unless there is pre-existing genetic information to mutate. Since information is not materialistic, nor can it create itself, there had to be an intelligent creator to create the information. There is just no getting around these facts.

  • Dale

    David is not alone in his beliefs. I have heard a number of NASA scientist and astronauts say that the universe is far too complexed and shows way too many signs of being controlled by a higher power and could not exist without intelligent designers in control.

    • cyoder

      True. It was a scientist, not a preacher, who originated "intelligent design".

      • Chris

        No it was a bunch of lying creeps at the Discovery Institute who wanted to have a new word for creation science. It's all documented in their Wedge Document which is available for all to see,

        • Bobseeks

          Speaking of lying creeps, isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black, Chris?

      • msjallen

        It is too bad that people have to say "intelligent design" or "higher power" instead of saying "God is the creator of the universe".
        Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
        Nothing else needs to be said.

      • keyboardshark

        "Intelligent design" is just a watered-down version of the truth of Biblical creation. I think I'll stick with the real thing.

    • Bobseeks

      Yes: Any scientist of any true intellect must make the admission that there must be a Creator.

  • Chris

    Oh out come the Christian liars. HE DIDN'T work for NASA he worked for Caltech. and he was a lowly computer technician.

    He flaunted the rules about bothering people at work but was fired because they had a head count reduction of which he was told about in advance.

    You people have a martyr complex. The guy is a flaming idiot.

    • http://twitter.com/lambsev11 @lambsev11

      Wait until you get sacked Chris.

      • Chris

        I won't get sacked because I don't preach at work. I spend my time learning more about science unlike religious clowns who waste their life rereading the bible. You cannot keep up.

        • JPM

          Chris I see that you have still not answered my questions posted yesterday. As for keeping up, why would we need to keep up when we are already so far ahead? I see you are still posting your totally disrespectful drivel. Why don't you try a little respect for others views? All you are doing is turning people off to your views. You are gaining nothing. Your name calling just confirms a mindset of the one posting and confirms in others minds that it is you that has all the attributes that you are labeling others. Only in your mind are you all knowing. Isn't that idea just a little arrogant and conceited?

          • Chris

            Being "Nice" and setting a good example don't work. When you say "So far ahead" please let me know in what field because I am an expert in a couple of fields . I have a lot of patents in two particular fields and there is no competition to a product I invented.

            If you are far ahead – what are you far ahead in?

        • http://youtu.be/SLlvGDFVsf0 Despeville

          A favor for under-educated and over duped…

          Darwin's Heretic: Did the Co-Founder of Evolution Embrace Intelligent Design?
          LINK: http://youtu.be/hxvAVln6HLI

    • petroskhan1262

      Taken from the Huffington Post story (I use them, since I feel you would trust them more than any conservative source):

      "His main duties at JPL were to maintain computer networks and troubleshoot technical problems for the mission. In 2000, he was named "team lead," serving as a liaison between technicians and managers for nearly a decade before being demoted in 2009."

      A) Doesn't sound like a "lowly computer technician"
      B) Doesn't quite sound like "a flaming idiot".

      Considering the importance of the computer networks at JPL, the load placed on them, and the amount of data stored and analyzed, this would be a rather important position, don't you think? And to given the title of "team lead" implies some sort of position over others, indicating superior knowledge and/or experience.

      Try to extend to others the same regard for their opinions that you would like to be given for yours, brother, and the discussion might proceed on a more civil level, and be more productive. An exchange of thoughts, facts, and ideas is a good thing. A simple exchange of insults, derogatory statements, and invective is counter-productive.

      Thank you, and God Bless.

      • KnowTheTruthToday

        You don't mean Chris put a slant on the story. He was right on the verge of lying – I am so shocked (sarcastic)

        • petroskhan1262

          No no, I am sure he would never do that. He was just…umm…editorializing. Yes, that's it. I'm sure of it.

        • Chris

          Please tell me how I was lying – I'd like to learn the correct story. I've been following the court case for months, read the submissions by both sides of the case, researched intelligent design for several years, met and talked to several leading promoters of intelligent design.

          What have you done?

          • petroskhan1262

            Apparently struck a nerve.

      • Chris

        It is a lie to say he worked for NASA. He had nothing directly to do with the Cassini mission only to help maintain the computers. He is a flaming idiot because he thought that he could ignore the rules and try to push his ridiculous ideas on people. Why should I be civil when the people who claim to be morally superior at every turn lie and misrepresent what happened.

        • petroskhan1262

          "He had nothing to do with the Cassini mission only to help maintain the computers." That's all, right? Nothing too important. Just maintaining a computer network responsible for receiving, storing and analyzing data sent from a probe halfway across the solar system, with others working under him.

          And he is an idiot, in your opinion, because he believed in something that YOU disagree with, and engaged others in conversation regarding that belief. Nowhere have I seen a record of any complaints filed by his co-workers, yet you claim quite comfortably that he tried "to push his ridiculous ideas on people." So, in addition to assuming that some sort of "pushing of ideas" was taking place, you also label his ideas as "ridiculous", based on nothing more than the fact that YOU disagree with them.

          All this, while berating those who claim to be morally superior. Not that you would do anything like that, right? Not that you have misrepresented anything involved in this story, of course. You'd never do that, just to make your point. Because that would make you a hypocrite, wouldn't it?

          And being civil in the face of opposition is simply a sign of maturity, and civilized discourse. You might want to consider trying it, brother.

          Thank you for your time. God Bless.

    • KnowTheTruthToday

      You may be right, but show us where you get your information.

    • Dave

      Chris? What have you done to help Humanity that is NOT self serving?
      Gone way out of you way to Serv?
      NAME @ of them,Please?

  • http://twitter.com/lambsev11 @lambsev11

    This is not a new phenom. Remember Ben Stein's movie EXPELLED? If you haven't seen it you should IMHO.

    • Chris

      Ben Steins' expelled is packed full of lies.

      • petroskhan1262

        Would it be too much trouble for you to expand upon that, and perhaps qualify that statement?

        • Vladimir

          Words are easy, logic and reason escape most.

          • petroskhan1262

            Hope springs eternal…

        • JoJo

          LOL lemmings don't have to explain or justify their opinions. They just say something is a "pack of lies" and we have to accept that and "move on". Truth is, "intelligent design" is automatically assumed to be creationism. It's not. There are too many holes in Darwinism to be taken 100% at face value. Yes, some animals have evolved due to environment, but how about the very, very beginning? The Urey–Miller experiment back in 1952 was NEVER able to be replicated in any other lab, but assumed to be true. Seems contrary to what I was taught about science. The Urey-Miller experiment used lightening to create long chain amino acids in what they thought was the atmosphere before life began. They are still looking at that experiment and finding holes in it, yet WE have to believe in half truths and theories as fact or else we're subject to ridicule.

          • petroskhan1262

            Testify, brother…LOL

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Actually, the Dover trial precisely showed that ID is Creationism repackaged. Kitzmiller v. Dover was the first legal test of intelligent design as a scientific theory, with the plaintiffs arguing that it is a thinly veiled form of creationism, the view that a literal interpretation of the Bible accounts for all observed facts about nature.

            During the trial, lawyers for the plaintiffs showed that evolution is one of the best-tested and most thoroughly confirmed theories in the history of science, and that its unresolved questions are normal research problems–the type that arise in any flourishing scientific field.

            U.S. District Court Judge John E. Jones III ultimately decided for the plaintiffs, writing in his decision that intelligent design "cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents." As part of his decision, Judge Jones ordered the Dover school board to pay legal fees and damages, which were eventually set at $1 million.

          • petroskhan1262

            Strange to me that anyone would deny that in the first place. I personally never use the phrase/expression "Intelligent Design" in any conversations or discussions. To do so would be deceptive and misleading, nothing more than beating around the bush, as it were. A burning one, in this case. (That's a joke, btw)

            Anyone claiming otherwise should have been dragged into court, and paid the price for the attempted deception, in my opinion. If you believe in God, and the Bible, say so, don't try to slap a new coat of paint on it, and call it something else. Sounds like the defendants got what they deserved, if you ask me.

            Thanks, and God Bless.

          • Chris

            No – SPECIFICALLY – the Discovery Institute renamed creationism to "intelligent design" and this was proven in court. Expelled lied about why people were fired and in reality far more people were actually fired for teaching evolution or being atheists. The religious are usually really bad at determining what is a fact because that's why they are religious. Gullible is the defining word. They got brainwashed by their parents and never got out of the rut.

          • petroskhan1262

            "Gullible is the defining word."

            So, there's this muck on the ground, made up of…well, we're not sure…in an environment most likely hostile to life…and then something happens, we don't know what…and in this muck, somehow…we don't know how…non-living stuff is suddenly alive…and then, we don't know how…it gets more and more complicated…blah, blah, blah.

            You're right. "Gullible" is a GREAT word. By the way, I've got some magic beans, if you're interested. (That's another joke, in case you missed it)

            Thanks, and God Bless.

          • keyboardshark

            Heh heh, that's priceless, petroskhan1262. Simple, but effective way to show how utterly nonsensical evolutionary thinking really is.

  • http://twitter.com/lambsev11 @lambsev11

    What i find interesting is that those who shun intelligent design and Divine intelligence are quite happy with their own intelligence, and the use it to design intelligent scientific experiments and theories. Darwinism is such a theory, and certainly Darwin was intelligent. But from what material does intelligence arise? The 2% of DNA which materially distinguishes us from apes?

    • Chris

      No because most animals are "Intelligent". Several invent tools.

      • Bagui

        Man has intelligent speech, or some capacity, we can surmise by this discussion. Crows bend wire, to fish or prod.
        Gorillas and chimps learn sign language. Border collies seem to learn approximately 400 words or phrases. My dog,
        a dachshund mix, could learn several tricks after 1 to 2 instructions by my wife. Chris, I am not hatefully calling out the
        posters of this forum, as you dogmatically betray your desperation to defend human attempts to shut down dialogue.
        Huxley grabbed Darwin's edited compilations, and experience, to literally attack another dogma of religion. If it is only
        about destroying dogma, science and medicine do enough to discredit themselves every year, by Logic (?)

    • aceituna

      Do a study on the first two chapters of 1st Corinthians and learn the difference between "man's wisdom" and "God's Wisdom".

      • Chris

        Why not just tell us the difference? I have found almost no useful wisdom in the Bible. I never refer to it.. I have several hundred science and engineering books which do contain "Wisdom" and I refer to them often.

        • keyboardshark

          "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding." Proverbs 9:10

          "There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the LORD." Proverbs 21:30

          "Labour not to be rich: cease from thine own wisdom." Proverbs 23:4

          "As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all." Ecclesiastes 11:5

          "12And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

          13Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

          14For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil." Ecclesiastes 12:12-14

          You won't find that kind of wisdom in science books.

  • blackhawk

    WAIT. Let's see now .I guess the universe has been there forever.I wonder what IT evolves from ? GAS ??? Where did the gas come from ? WOW ;I'm sure glad I was born on earth as that's where life began. If I was born on Mars or some other ;I may have evolved into a rock or something.
    Can something , anything, just appear ??? How??
    Oh well.When we all die and actually see God then we'll really know and IF there is NO GOD ;Then we won't know NUTTIN .Golly gee ; This is all very confusing.

    • Chris

      Why don't you stop reading your Bible and go read some science literature. You will discover that due to quantum perturbations matter and anit-matter are created in the upper regions of the Earth's atmosphere.

      Saying "That's where life began" may not be true because certain ingredients probably arrived on the earth from other sources. Stuff arrives on the Earth on a daily basis.

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      As Stephen Hawking writes: "the quantum theory of gravity has opened up a new possibility, in which there would be no boundary to space-time and so there would be no need to specify the behavior at the boundary. There would be no singularities at which the laws of science broke down and no edge of space-time at which one would have to appeal to God or some new law to set the boundary conditions for space-time. One could say: "The boundary condition of the universe is that it has no boundary." The universe would be completely self-contained and not affected by anything outside itself. It would neither be created nor destroyed. It would just BE." Hawking, A Brief History, p. 136.

      • Bobseeks

        Hawkings is an arrogant puffed up man whose ego is even bigger than his (supposed) intellect. He is the prime example of how education and intelligence do not equal wisdom. He is no less a liar than you jeffie.

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          He is an Honorary Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts, a lifetime member of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, and in 2009 was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest civilian award in the United States.
          Hawking was the Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at the University of Cambridge between 1979 and 2009. Subsequently, he became research director at the university's Centre for Theoretical Cosmology.

          And you bobbiesocks are simply a loon.

      • 32eagle

        yes I agree with those that say Hawking is a fool that if he lived past 55 years old was a lucky brainiac-to have not been struck down by a lightning bolt-if this guy had been an astronaut-he would have been dangerous-kind of reminds me of Obama

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          Pray tell, what degrees and awards you have been presented with, 32eagle.

          I am sure they dwarf Hawking's accomplishments.

          • 32eagle

            I am just a red-neck civil service worker that can't afford to ever retire-I have no fancified college degrees-however I do have plenty of military training and vocational schools -my background is telephone lineman,automotive factory worker,ball bearing manufacturing,pyrotechnics,football.wrestling,and musclecar restoration- as for hawking- he aint no hawk he can't fly-what's he good for?

          • Steve03

            In other words, you're another lazy and incompetent freeloader feeding at the public trough instead of being gainfully employed. Biting the hand that feeds you only makes it worse.

          • 32eagle

            hawking what kind of theory are you rambling about-no need to whine about not being in a job like mine-I happen to work hard at my job-as hard as those that sweat gallons each week-I can't devulge any further info because of security-but I am thankful to have my job and sure lots of folks are jealous-and I understand-totally-however incompetent and lazy are misguided missles-your aim is off by a long shot !!!

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            You are a doing a job that many could do. Hawking is a doing one that few have the ability to do.

  • blackhawk

    Ohhhh. You mean matter always existed , right ? Please explain to this bible thumper because I was always taught that nothing can always exist not even nuclear waste. Just where did this STUFF get its beginning ? Maybe it just popped into existance from nuttin. Evolution ,I thought was a theory. OR maybe a force at the very end of the universe just willed themselves and matter into existance..Come on Chris ; Work that brain mass God developed.

    • Bobseeks

      Blackhawk: The evo-nazis will never be able to explain this scientific fact with their faulty faith system: Matter can neither be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another – in other words, for matter to exist, some supernatural force had to be used for its creation – that force is obviously GOD. Their devotion to their false religion is so blind, they cannot see the truth that stands right in front of them.

  • Chris

    It's nothing to do with MY brain – it's to do with physicists. You can create matter and anti-matter out of "nothing" because the mass/energy balance remains true.

    I'd suggest listening to this from Lawrence Krauss.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo

    • blackhawk

      Wow. Is that true?? It's , by the way called physics. golleee have I been put in my place.Was anti matter always here??? So;Out of this supposed nothing ,which by the way must also have had a beginning , Everything in existance just went poof , right? We must be really something. We speak and all but those poor animals ;They can't create even a rock . Now I need to know. Was there a time when NUTTIN existed?? I guess those scientists who say bull sh*t have to be wrong because the smarter scientists know more stuff. Maybe we evolved from apes including the dummy scientists who dont believe the THEORY and the other guys evolved from sumtin special.
      I wonder if MY God is writing this in His diary ? You better prepare yourself because the police in Heaven are going to question you.

      • blackhawk

        Hold on. I just had an idea.I'm going to get a container that will be cleaned really good and go bury it in the ground for ,lets say, 4 billion years and leave instructions with my descendants to dig it up and see whats in it. Speculate what they will find .I wonder.WOW all this science stuff is making my left eye hurt. I should stick with convoluted theory discovery. I have to learn never to question my betters.

        • Bobseeks

          Blackhawk: Arguing with the believers of a false religion is always difficult. The atheist religion is completely illogical and chris has proven to be immune to logic and reason time and time again.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            bobbiesocks, you have never posted anything that is logical or rational.

          • http://youtu.be/SLlvGDFVsf0 Despeville

            Darwin's Heretic: Did the Co-Founder of Evolution Embrace Intelligent Design?

            LINK: http://youtu.be/hxvAVln6H
            http://www.alfredwallace.org

            Educate yourself Dixon about your hero Darwin who was a plagiarizer like you are…

          • Chris

            "False" religion? Can you define religion to us? You can't even agree on your religion and what it is – why should I believe anything you say. There are hundreds of different bibles and thousands of different versions of Christianity – with an "inerrant" god that's seems pretty unbelievable.

            How is it "illogical" to not believe in something that doesn't exist. It is quite logical to believe there is no such thing as angels when you have never seen one and there are no photographs or videos on Youtube or fossils in the ground.

          • JoJo

            I've often wondered how atheism is a religion. Athiests believe in nothing and want others to become empty nothings too. Religion is a belief in something.

          • Chris

            No – atheists don't believe in gods. That's not the same as "Don't believe in anything". What are we supposed to be empty of? Empty of belief in a skygod? Most of the atheists I know have a whole lot of interesting things to say and have lots of useful information. And, as I have said before, I really don't don't like talking to the religious because they keep bringing up the subject of how they like to shoot innocent small animals for fun.

          • Dave

            Wow,Chris, you are so self rightous .
            You are far from being perfect Chris and there NO ONE that is only one was. But you will not know him because you lack the abilities to learn or to except.

        • Chris

          .I'd suggest learning how to write coherent sentences before you go on to physics.

          • blackhawk

            Chris. I'm just fooling with you. I know non believers seldom can be spoken to logically about God.But religion is very simple. It's not about churches or the many different denominations.
            It's also not about believing IN God. It's all about BELIEVING Him. He left a rule book for us to follow but time has perverted His message. Remember BELIEVE Him not in Him.

          • Chris

            That's pretty funny. "It's all about believing HIM". The Bible isn't a rule book and there are several versions. How can you possibly believe something that there is no evidence of. If you classify tsunami's as evidence of "God's creations" – why would you want to believe in a god that randomly kills hundreds of thousands of innocent people. Or so nasty that he "blesses" the Duggars with yet another baby and then a little while later kills it. No thanks.

          • blackhawk

            Chris I suggest you re-read my last post. It's not my job to teach you Christianity and the rule book has been re done time after time. Everyone has the oppertunity to believe Him.
            Time will tell when your on your death bed. I think I'll just go take a nap now and pray you will someday accept real science.

          • Chris

            I've been taught Christianity thanks. Then I learned more about people and this planet. I also learned how the human brain works, have had a general anaesthetic, had my heart stopped twice so I know first hand about what goes on. Your knowledge is stored physically in your brain – if it gets run over by a train there is nobody there to scoop it up and put it back together again.

            Perhaps you could explain how the knowledge is transferred to heaven to be able to recognize people you will "rejoin" in heaven and in particular how this works for Alzheimer's patients who have long lost there memory? Is there some sort of USB key?

          • Dave

            Chris, God does NOT kill inoscents as you claim, There is also evel in this world and BECAUSE you and your friends refuse to except God, You want God to stop all evel? You turn your back on God and you. You just unbleive able, So close minded and full of anger that YOUR UNABLE to see the truth or even hear it.

          • Chris

            All I see are fundraising organizations, even this website, who are out to make a buck off the gullible.

      • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

        Creationists are the group who believes that things just "popped" into existence.

        • Bobseeks

          Liar – Creationists believe that GOD created everything, it is you who believe that things "just popped" into being for no apparent reason without any known cause well beyond any probability that such an occurance could happen. That is your religion – a faith without any grounds in that which is almost mathmatically impossible. And you and your fellow fools have the nerve to call Christians deluded!

        • Dave

          Nice try Jeff, It is you athiest that are saying that. What creationist and Christian have been say that God created US, And that we were NOT created from nothing but from Him.

          Agai Jeff twisting truth and creating lies.

    • http://youtu.be/SLlvGDFVsf0 Despeville

      A favor for under-educated and over duped…

      Darwin's Heretic: Did the Co-Founder of Evolution Embrace Intelligent Design?
      LINK: http://youtu.be/hxvAVln6HLI

      • Chris

        No because Intelligent design is creationism relabeled by the Discovery Institute in their Wedge document.

        You haven't read that yet?

        • http://youtu.be/SLlvGDFVsf0 Despeville

          That's not what I am talking about here. Darwin was a fraud and a plagiarizer to some extent. He did not have an original idea. Alfred Russel Wallace was before him:
          http://www.darwinsheretic.com

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            There were several who had this idea before Darwin. Darwin's intellectual predecessors accepted the idea of evolutionary relationships among organisms, but they could not provide a satisfactory explanation for how evolution occurred. That is where he differed.

            But even if he stole everything about the idea, it does not change the reality that the idea is supported by the evidence. You are trying to make this about Darwin. Darwin is not the issue. Evolution is the topic. And evolution is the best supported theory in science.

          • http://youtu.be/SLlvGDFVsf0 Despeville

            There is no evidence Dixon. Only a strong desire of people like you to see evidence. In this sense you do exactly what you assert that Christians do… The point is that the man whose ideas Darwin largely plagiarized and compressed saw this in much more profound way.

  • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

    The only ignorance shown is yours Humpty. Macro is simply more mututations that micro. Please explain the limiting factor that prevents macro from occurring.

    • http://youtu.be/SLlvGDFVsf0 Despeville

      Here educated yourself schizophrenic neophyte…
      I will bet you a $1000 that you have never even heard about this until now yet this is so instrumental for the theory you hold as the ultimate explanation of your pathetic and myopic view of world and reality… Say thank you Schizoid you have just learned another thing from me…

      Darwin's Heretic: Did the Co-Founder of Evolution Embrace Intelligent Design?
      LINK: http://youtu.be/hxvAVln6HLI

      Of course you will never own up to you ignorance… :)

  • http://zionica.com/2012/03/09/nypd-secret-docs-target-muslims/ Tom

    Insanity again.

    I would love to actually see one of the DVDs he was putting out. It might explain much. As to his job? I can personally see some validity in demotion, but not necessarily termination. As a team leader in a position of scientific inquiry, I could see some major conflict of interest in supporting and promoting predetermined beliefs regarding the issues being investigated. While probably true, such beliefs and advocacy could serve to heavily bias the results of the research.

    • Chris

      It wasn't a termination – he got LAID OFF. Budget went away. DUH.

  • http://zionica.com/2012/03/09/nypd-secret-docs-target-muslims/ Tom

    Personally, I believe in intelligent design as the core basis of all creation. However, I also believe in evolution and the planetary creation processes as the most logical of the current "theories" potentially explaining the "how" of the questions regarding the intelligent design and creation of all things. As I have said and written in the past, Christianity and Science are not necessarily mutually exclusive, nor should they necessarily be opponents.

    • Chris

      If there is intelligent design why are the designs so screwed up? Which clown would design a nerve in a giraffe that runs all the way up the neck and back down, who would design the crazy arrangement in our brains that copies that of monkeys. Why did they put men's urinary tract through the prostate gland? Why do humans have such garbage eyes that cannot zoom (like some birds) or see in the infra red or ultra violet spectrums? Why do dolphins have separated breathing and eating systems – all it does in our case is kill people by way of choking. Why do we have tails? Why are some babies born without vaious pieces of their anatomy.

  • http://zionica.com/2012/03/09/nypd-secret-docs-target-muslims/ Tom

    Christianity and most real religions tries to promote right living and ethics while explaining where everything originated. Typically, this begins with an intelligent benign supreme being (aka God). Science does not typically refute the existance of God.

    Athieism does this, sometimes under the guise of science.

    • Chris

      Science has always shown the non-existence of god. Can you tell me what experiment to perform to prove that he does exist. Several have already been run.

      • Eugene

        You can no more "PROVE" the non-existence of God than I can "PROVE" the existence of God – using empirical eveidence.

  • http://zionica.com/2012/03/09/nypd-secret-docs-target-muslims/ Tom

    Science typically only tries to explain (to the best of our understanding, albeit admittedly limited), the "how" of God's accomplishments so that we can comprehend his works to our limited extent.

    Basically, one belief rightly compliments and helps support or fulfill the other. It is only those of limited intellect, faith and/or understanding and those who thrive on the power of serving as the spokesman/woman for one side or the other while fanning the flames of dissent and thriving on the power of controlling others (their rabid followers) who keep the fight between church and science going.

    • Chris

      Science does no such thing because one cannot identify which "God" did what . I keep the fight going to stop us going back to the dark ages and to stop the religious forming a theocracy.

      • Bobseeks

        The dark ages arrived when you evo-nazis buried the truth under a pile of darwinist excrement.

        • Chris

          Apparently your history is even worse than your biology. You have NOTHING – you are too lazy to do any experiments.

          You are dishonest. You bring nothing to the table but manufactured BS. You never explain how your heaven works or what it is or how memories are transferred there. You just want to muddle along in imprecise thinking and throw rocks at people who show up with facts.

          • Bobseeks

            I do not bother making long replies to you because you hate the truth and are immune to reason. By the way, research the great universities and you will find that almost all of them were started by Christians. That is a fact, fool.

          • Chris

            Sorry but your response is stupid. The fact that many were started by Christians is because most were started in Christian countries. That has almost nothing to do with anything.

            You don't give long replies because you have nothing to reply with. You just have your ridiculous bible and no experiments or facts. You have no fossil record of Adam and Eve, no pictures, no videos no nothing.

            Please – explain how an Alzheimer's sufferer would live in heaven. Should be pretty easy to you religious know it alls compared top us dumb atheists. Tell us how previous memories before their brains lost them all were recovered and stored temporarily until they made the magical move.

  • Bobseeks

    You keep changing your tack, once again proving your dishonest, sleazy nature, Being created as an act of will is not the same thing as being "popped" into existence any more than building a house means that it "popped" into existence. Being "popped" into existence is the mantra of the atheists with their moronic "big bang" theory. But, an argument is useless with a pathological, deluded liar such as yourself jeffie so I will return to ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz to indicate my boredom with your inane repitition of atheist lies, fables, myths, and fantasies.

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      Your inability to understand what your talking about is the only thing this shows.

      • Bobseeks

        ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz.

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          It is time for you to take a nap. Ranting takes a lot out of you, bobbliesocks.

        • Chris

          His brain froze. He cannot say anything about his "creation" / big bang theory because it wouldn't make any sense. He cannot be bothered to do the experiment to determine the genetic makeup of Adam and Eve – which with modern tools should surely be possible. We can engineer the next flu vaccine without even help from his skygod but he is unable to decipher what his bible tells him about what to do to determine Adam and Eve's genetics. With all their talk about missing fossils you'd think with God's guidance they could find the fossils of Adam and Eve too and all the intermediates between them and us to prove or disprove evolution.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            They can't find the ark, which is much younger. They can't find evidence of the Exodus. They can't even find physical evidence of Jesus. What they have is faith. Which means they have nothing.

            "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. "
            – Frietrich Nietzsche

            "Faith consists in believing not what seems true, but what seems false to our understanding."
            -Voltaire

          • Dave

            WOW Jeff AGAIN LIES,
            Yes they have found on a DIG, A pillor of the Exodus time.
            Written Historical Writting of Jesus and still happening till this Day

            Again Jeff You uneducated Close minded athiest Bullie PUNK!!
            Get your Jollies horrassing other because you LOST, Been hurt and because of your own stupidity and HAVE to blame others.

            SO GROW UP!!!

          • Dave

            You put your trust into man where they KILL INNOSCENCES, DESTROY lives. But INFACT these men are you Chris that are destroy and killing.

  • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

    No, the dark ages where when the Christians ruled Europe with an iron fist.

  • Chris

    Your history facts fail you. the graph clearly shows that the introduction of religion was synchronous with the curtailment of forward progress.

    Have you any proof that Darwin was wrong? Have you done any experiments to disprove what thousands of biologists know? You don't know squat about biology.

  • Bobseeks

    Does phylogeny recapitulates ontogeny mean anything to you jeffie?

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      It is a disproven biological hypothesis. What absurd point are you attempting to make, bobbiesocks?

    • Chris

      No you just Google it and it explains it. What does it have to do with evolution or your creation story.

  • http://youtu.be/SLlvGDFVsf0 Despeville

    What is laughable to prejudiced, biased and under-educated person as you are is of no weight at all to this issue and in fact many other issues you mindlessly whine about None.
    There is plenty of scientists who oppose the so called Darwin Theory or have a completely different approach now days It is that way now and it was that way then case point Alfred Russel Wallace and Charles Darwin. Inflating or deflating perceived "scientific' or "scholarly" consensus will get you nowhere and it does not and cannot represent a proof in itself for absolutely nothing. Consensuses come and go and change from decade to decade from century to century and sometimes from year to year and we have seen this happening to so many areas of science. If you trust in consensus you are a drift and you set yourself for a failure which is exactly what you do Dixon.

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      There are many biologists who have differing ideas about how evolution works, but to claim that there are many who disagree that evolution is an accurate view of how life changes over time is absurd. They are debating the manner, not the idea. You simply keep showing that you have no idea what you are talking about. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

      • http://youtu.be/SLlvGDFVsf0 Despeville

        " They are debating the manner, not the idea."

        :) That is simply either your lie or your ignorance. In this regard I would grant that the second one given how vastly ignorant you are of so many subjects and at best you function on surface, popular myths level. No Dixon, the theory of evolution is being questioned by many but due to religious like standing of it by those who hold to it and their influence those who deny it have to be careful how, when and where they voice their justifiable findings.

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          You can grant anything you like, it is just more meaningless babble on your part. The only group questioning evolution in any real manner are the religious zealots who realize how it destroys their god myths.

    • Chris

      There are not "plenty" of scientists and they have no consensus or evidence to support anything. It's a good way of making a buck off the gullible though.

  • MIKO

    How can nothing explode and create matter without a GOD.???
    People speak of evolution as if we were only talking about life change on planet earth. Really! Let's go to the beginning. Imagine the universe. one very large 3 dimensional space as far as we know. Now remove everything from it. Is this the space the universe evolved in? NO!
    What is absolute nothing? then it explodeds? Al Gore calls it a cosmic seed exploding. How can nothing explode and create matter?

    • Bobseeks

      The fact that al gore believes in evolution should be enough to make it suspect to any person capable of reason.

      • Chris P

        Why – AL Gore seems smarter than any of the religious ones on this site. I'm still waiting to get anything that appears to be science out of anybody here.

  • Bobseeks

    This individual is the victim of the evo-nazis; the magisterium of the science liars. This magisterium exists to force the lies and false teachings of the devotees of the false god "darwin" on the people just as the roman church's magisterium forced the lies and heresies of the false god "pope" on the people. The evo-nazis are every bit as blind to the truth and every bit as viscious to the truthful as the magesterium of the roman church was to those who believed the truth of GOD's Word. Eventually, these godless liars will perish, but we need to pray for those who lack the intellect to see through their lies and the strength of character to resist their conditioning. I know that they are seemingly beyond hope of redemption, but GOD is truly the GOD of miracles.

    • Chris P

      What has pushing unwanted religious beliefs at work got to do with evolution?

      You are the brainwashed ones. Your parents are the ones who were responsible for it. Ever noticed that children are afflicted with t he religion of their parents or didn't you even notice that simple correlation.

      • Bobseeks

        My father was an atheist and my mother had no help in "forcing" Christianity on me. For years I was a deluded fool like you and bought into the atheist myths and fables just like you. With prayer from believers and by the grace of GOD I was able to break free of the chains of ignorance and darkness forged by the evo-nazis and their constant indoctrination. I seriously doubt that you have the intelligence or strength of character to break free of those same chains, but I do mention you by name in prayer several times a week in the hopes GOD will take the extra effort to bring you out of the darkness of ignorance and unbelief.

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          From the bullying you experienced to your current delusional views, it is easy to see how you developed into the lunatic you currently are.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            bobbiesocks, I am sure you feel you are a rational person. But you are a loon.

  • Dale

    There are a lot of unanswered questions being posted above. Isn't it nice to know that if you're a follower and believe in Jesus Christ in just a few short years you will be able to talk in person to the Creator himself and get the answers to any of those questions, along with hundreds or thousands of other questions and get the proof of all those answers. There will be plenty of time to discuss a lot of things, because in eternity there is no time. If you're not a follower of Jesus Christ you will have your hands full for eternity in an environment you never ever dreamed of and those questions won't even matter to you.

    • Chris P

      What? How's that going to work exactly? I'd suggest learning how stuff is stored in your brain. If you are thinking that you are going to go to a wonderful place after you die then you are wasting your time while you are still alive.

  • NavyBugchaser

    While i applaud him for his stand for the truth, the thing that probably gave the evolutionist stooges ammunition to fire him is when he passed out the DVDs. This is a ticklish situation akin to Christians, who work as civil servants such as yours truley, passing out tracts in the workplace. It can be counted as, wrongly of course, as harassment and forcing your beliefs on others. Anybody with half a brain can see that evolution is utter nonsense, but those who espouse it do so because they don't want to have to acknowledge that their is SOMEONE else that they will have to answer to, so they do their darnest to force out anybody who does not believe as they do. Stupid is as stupid does and they show a lack of intelligence by clinging to foolish nonsense. Perhaps, THEY did evolve from monkeys, but the rest of us and the entire universe was designed by Intelligence and not by accident.