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reasonrally

What an atheist looks like

The display tent at the Reason Rally 2012 on March 24 smelled of wet rain gear and sweaters soggy from the near-constant drizzle. Atheists, freethinkers, and secularists of all stripes were checking out booths from two dozen or so atheist groups.

The crowd inched around the perimeter of the tent, but traffic stalled where people clustered for photos. Like carnival-goers with a muscleman cutout, they took turns standing behind an empty picture frame with, "This is what an atheist looks like" printed below.

That's what I had come to find out. Organizers of the rally, held on the Mall near the Washington Monument, clearly hoped to use "history's largest" gathering of atheists and like-minded brethren to combat their public image as cheerless, caustic scolds.

Outside the tent, most of the 10,000 or so attendees—a mix of college students, adults, and a scattering of families with children, some with bright umbrellas and plastic ponchos—applauded speakers. The day-long schedule included activists, bloggers, entertainers, and a couple of congressmen, all headlined by world-famous Oxford professor Richard Dawkins.

Continue reading at www.worldmag.com
 
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  • Jerry M

    Unless we are told they are atheist, we would never know since we can’t see inside their soul but God can. Better get right with God, atheist, since we are all just penciled in and can die at any time.

    • arich

      Die and return to dust. The end. No heaven. No hell. All that time praying to a ghost in the sky who never existed was for nothing.

      • skipfoss

        I would not want to bet on what you are saying . I have worked and served with so called athiest and before they died quess who they called on it sure wasn't Obama

        • Evermyrtle

          Death is not the end, except for the body. The soul lives on.

          There is a day coming when, GOD will end the world, as it stands, today. All people who have ever lived will be gathered before HM. HE will separate these souls, HIS own, who chose to live for HIM AND ACCEPT HIS SON, JESUS CHRIST, will be directed, to go to GOD'S right side. Those who chose to live Atheist lives or in way, that is not GODS way," Those will be direct to the left to live forever in the place that has been assigned to him. Every body will then know exactly who GOD ,HIS SON, JESUS CHRIST AND THE HOLY GHOST IS. BUT IT WILL BE TOO LATE TO CHOSE, AT THAT TIME.

          Romans 14:11-12
          11. For it is written, "As I live", said the LORD, "every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to GOD.
          12. So then everyone of us shall give account of himself to GOD

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          There was the very recent public death of Christopher Hitchens who was an Atheist. He did not call out for your god or any other god. Obviously, you are not correct.

          • BillK

            God says that He will allow a heart to be hardened after a certain point…when that individual is considered lost forever
            Your #1 atheist stated on his death bed that he was wrong!
            The Bible Codes book by Grant Jeffrey has proven beyond any shadow of doubt that God wrote the bible through the hand of man. Get a copy and see for yourself, or has your mind been closed too long for truth and facts?

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            You do you consider to be the #1 atheist?

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Who do you consider

          • Dave

            Oh Jeff your NOT correct either. Hitchens said just days before his death that you can NOT rule that there might some truth about it.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Dave, thank you for that bit of absurdity.

      • Brian C

        So arich you're certain of that eh? Great faith you've got there.

      • Ron18691

        I can respect your belief but what if we are right n you are wrong. We have nothing to lose either way but on the other hand you have everything to lose. Just think about that.

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          During the debate with Christians, there comes a point when they will say something to the effect of, "If you are right, then at least I led a good life, however if I am right, then you will end up in Hell." This is, of course, Pascal's Wager. It also begs the question of whether or not they actually led a "good" life. I have known many Christians who cheated, lied, fornicated and stole, among other "sins". Whether their lives were any more moral or better than others is highly debatable. In addition, it assumes that the atheist did not live a good life, which is very insulting. If you are not familiar with the idea of Pascal's Wager, let me provide some background information.

          Pascal’s Wager is the idea that regardless of whether the existence of God can be proven through rational means, one should live their life as though God does exist, because living your life that way means you have everything to gain and nothing to lose. It was proposed by a French philosopher, mathematician and physicist named Blaise Pascal.

          However, there are several problems with this idea.

          First, it assumes that there are only two alternatives to choose from; belief and disbelief in the biblical god. However, that is not accurate. There are thousands of different gods that mankind has dreamt up over the centuries. Therefore, he must also choose the correct deity to believe in. If the Romans, Hindus, Aztecs, Muslims, early Greeks or any of the thousands of other gods were correct, then the Christian is in as big of a problem as the atheist. Now, I am sure the Christian is not worried about whether the Greek or Aztec gods of old are the correct deity. Yet, why not? Millions of people have believed in these gods, with the same devote fervour as current day Christians. It could also be possible that the true god has not yet been revealed. It has been said many times, that there is little difference between a theist and an atheist. A theist does not believe in all of the thousands of other gods that mankind has thought up over the centuries, they just believe in the one they think is correct. An atheist agrees that all the other gods are myths and fables, we just add one more to the list; the one the theist believes in.

          Second, even if the Christian God is the correct deity, there is still a problem of deciding which of the 30,000 Christian sects worships him the correct way. If the Catholics are right, then the Protestants have a problem, and of course, the reverse is true for the Catholic. If the Mormons are right, then most of the two billions Christians in the world have a huge problem.
          Keep in mind that Pascal was a Catholic, and he was advocating for the Catholic version of Christianity. This always make it even more ironic when Protestants invoke his arguments.

          Third, if you only say you believe in order to hedge your bet for getting into heaven, it is doubtful that an all knowing god would let you in anyway, since you really did not believe. You simply went through the motions.

          Fourth, it assumes that God would only reward a believer no matter what other circumstances exist. It is certainly possible that God would reward rational and researched reasoning and punish blind or feigned faith.

          Consider this argument given by Thomas Jefferson: "Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

          Richard Carrier adds to this idea with this statement: "Suppose there is a god who is watching us and choosing which souls of the deceased to bring to heaven, and this god really does want only the morally good to populate heaven. He will probably select from only those who made a significant and responsible effort to discover the truth. For all others are untrustworthy, being cognitively or morally inferior, or both. They will also be less likely ever to discover and commit to true beliefs about right and wrong. That is, if they have a significant and trustworthy concern for doing right and avoiding wrong, it follows necessarily that they must have a significant and trustworthy concern for knowing right and wrong. Since this knowledge requires knowledge about many fundamental facts of the universe (such as whether there is a god), it follows necessarily that such people must have a significant and trustworthy concern for always seeking out, testing, and confirming that their beliefs about such things are probably correct. Therefore, only such people can be sufficiently moral and trustworthy to deserve a place in heaven — unless God wishes to fill heaven with the morally lazy, irresponsible, or untrustworthy."

          Fifth, it makes the assumption that a person can make themselves believe. This is, of course, nonsense. A person either actually believes something or they do not. You cannot force yourself to believe something. If someone was standing over you with a gun and said you either believe that green Martians are ruling the planet or I will kill you. You might tell them you believe. You might profess it wholeheartedly. You might sign a declaration to this statement. But you would not believe it.

          So, does Pascal's Wager hold up to scrutiny? I wouldn't bet on it.

          • Justin McCarthy

            Pretty well reasoned and articulated. However, I am always amazed at the energy that atheists put into denying what does not exist. Personally, I think the apprehension of God or ultimate cause of the universe needs a more direct experience. Possibly faith is the stepping off point. It is difficult to reason into comprehending a reality beyond our knowledge.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Given how much religion impacts our lives, it is not really that big of a surprise. We are not concerned about flat earth believers because they have no impact on our lives. However, Christians try to impose their version of morality into the lives of all US citizens. From trying to prevent real science such as evolution being taught in schools, to preventing research into stem cell research, Christians retard the growth of our society.

          • lurl

            Jeff,
            I always find the fact that the much loved, amongst xians, president reagan refused to allow the use of research funds for research to cure AIDS; and disallowed the use of embryonic cells for research in Alzheimer's disease. He was the one who had Alzheimer's for over 15 years even whilst president.
            Just think he could have benefited from this research and have helped many of his actor friends.
            Now this is the hero of the xian no nothings. By the way we went ahead and used them in any event.
            It was Mrs. Reagan and her son who stepped up after his fortunate passing and supported all research using whatever cells are available. Same with the Bush presidency and their non-support of any science project or basic medical research. That is one of the reasons the u.s. is so far behind in medicine and science.

          • Dave

            So your for Killing Babies to extract their cells? WOW
            There are other means that stem cells research could be achieved, but you athiest rather Kill babies to get those cells. No body is or have stop other research to be done, It NOT prefered use Dead babies cells.
            Your drinking it NOW in your Pepsi products,mainly in there New Pepsi Max The companie that is supplies Pepsi is call Sonomyx.
            Useing Aborted babie Kidney cells. So now we can call caniblism human.

          • Evermyrtle

            Umbilical cords have been proven to have just as many cells which works just as well as those taken from murdered babies, in research. What is the problem with using those cells. Or is using the baby's cells only an excuse for the murder, as I suspect???

          • lurl

            Where did you do your research Myrtle the turtle?
            You are as insane as good 'ole Dave.
            I have not seen anyone murder a baby have you?
            There is a lot of shooting going on so perhaps we will just have to stand around and wait for a nice fresh murdered baby.
            Get some help.

          • lurl

            "Useing Aborted Babie Kidney cells. So now we can call caniblism human"
            Your quote Dave…terrible spelling and all.
            Obviously your know nothing about the remains for the products of conception. It is a collection of cells. Cells that some day may develop and may not. Kidney cells are not used in any drink nor are they sold to companies for addition to any product. Why would one put Kidney cells in a drink.
            First of all they would be killed by the carbonation.
            Secondly…Cannibalism is usually referred to as a human activity but can be found commonly amongst other animals.

          • Dave

            Oh Lurl You HAVE NO clue, But Nice try, Let explain why they want Kidney cell, is to enhance their drink with reduce sugar, It is in the New Pepsi Max. Look it up all engineered as they claim. So yes it is caniblism human remain for you to enjoy your pepsi products. But hey it has NOT stopped there, Hersey tried it and stopped,Coke looked into it but refused, Camble tried but pulled it, because it is Caniblism, so now that we are NOW Lurl? To take humans remains for your enjoyment?

            That is the different from me and you. Athiest thinks it is OK, But we as Christian believe ALL life is need to be saved and cherished.

          • Dave

            And Lurl Who care about my spelling, Just by you drink Pepsi is ALOT worst than my spelling!!

          • lurl

            Sorry Dave,
            I don't drink any soft drinks only coffee and Iced Tea. Never have I seen a kidney floating around in my drinks nor in any food I consume.
            I have wondered about those chocolate chips in the cookies….they do look rather suspicious.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Not everyone understands what their actions will entail.

          • Dave

            Jeff Christian HAVE NOT preventing progress, all we are is piont out is. Do you like drinking soda drink MADE from aborted babies? (Pepsi and sonomyx use aborted babie Kidney stem cell)It is happening in the Pepsi product today. Evolution has so many holes in it story the ship has sunk!! full of lies and twisted truth!! So NO Chrisitian DID NOT retard the growth but is protecting it MORALS. Those examples you have put out are with out morals which you hold so dear to yourself. Christian Morals Life,liberty and persuit of happiness. But mainly the value of LIFE is the Christian values are set, unlike you athiest!!

            Just show your marols ground and who you truely are. Scared little boy that CAN NOT FACE THE TRUTH!
            Watch the discovery channel lately, last week they shown 2000 yr old critps that show writings of Jesus resurections, So again Jeff Christian have shown proof,AGAIN!! and so far you athiest come up with 0!!

          • Dave

            Also Jeffery Good works alone with get you NO where, even in Life today,No where.
            In order to have good work to mean something you need to remember that there is something MUCH bigger than you and Better than you can ever be. Then Maybe,just maybe,Nope NO chance!! You either all in or all out. If you all out well one place for you, NOT pretty, But when your all in then you are safe and in a beautiful place, Been there and it does exsist,And being on the fence is worst of all.
            Life does NOT end when you die.It just the beginning.

          • lurl

            Dave,
            Sorry to hear you have had a stroke. Hope you recover soon.

          • Dave

            If I was i would, You like to gamble?
            When you gamble do you always win?
            Have you ever won?

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            The more important question is have you ever been able to post something coherent?

          • Dave

            Oh yes Jeff Just because you just like Lurl that sunk so low to allowed to have caniblism in your food and drinks. So what that make you!

          • lurl

            Dave:
            You are outright insane. There are no human products found in food and drink.
            One can find enzymes and other products produced from bovine sources (mainly)
            Where do you think human parts are used in food….Sweetbreads?

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Soylent Green

          • lurl

            It is worse than that. These people are absolutely mad. Checked them out and (his references)
            and there is a group that is attacking Pepsi and several others claiming that is some round about way aborted foeti are used for testing the products for sweetness. They also claim the foeti are used as sweeteners. Personally I prefer Splenda=Sucralose.
            They are demanding huge sums of money for forcing all these people to indulge in their products. Their demands are so ludicrous that I can't believe any court would accept this as a valid suit.
            The instigators are a very small group of pro-life fanatics who believe all doctors who have ever performed an abortion, any nurse, any woman who has had one should be put to death by whatever means necessary. They also believe any hospital or clinic should be destroyed from the top down if they perform these surgeries. They didn't say what should happen to the women who has a natural abortion of miscarriage. But they do believe that this results when the women consorts with satan.
            Interesting group. They are allowed to walk about in open society. Makes you wonder.

          • keyboardshark

            Jeff says (RE: Pascals Wager): "First, it assumes that there are only two alternatives to choose from; belief and disbelief in the biblical god. However, that is not accurate."

            It is accurate, because belief in a false god is equivalent to disbelief in the one true God, the God of the Bible. So there are two choices–belief in God (since there is only one God) or belief in something else, either that there is no God at all or some other form of belief in a false god. It still boils down to two choices. Either you believe in God (of which there is only one) or you do not.

            "Second, even if the Christian God is the correct deity, there is still a problem of deciding which of the 30,000 Christian sects worships him the correct way."

            No, that is just adding unnecessary complication to the equation to obscure the issue. All one has to do is disregard ALL sects, which are fallible and subject to error, and simply follow what the Bible says, which is inerrant .

            "Third, if you only say you believe in order to hedge your bet for getting into heaven, it is doubtful that an all knowing god would let you in anyway, since you really did not believe. You simply went through the motions."

            You are correct on that point. If someone is merely 'going through the motions', that is pretty good evidence that they are not saved to begin with. We cannot decide to get ourselves saved. It has to be all God's action. So believing to "hedge your bets" may sound good on paper, but it has no Biblical basis.

            "Fourth, it assumes that God would only reward a believer no matter what other circumstances exist. It is certainly possible that God would reward rational and researched reasoning and punish blind or feigned faith."

            No, God does not "reward" anyone, because salvation is by grace and grace alone, and is not based on any merit of mankind. So this assumption is a red herring.

            "Fifth, it makes the assumption that a person can make themselves believe. This is, of course, nonsense."

            True, no one can "make" themselves believe, but God certainly can. But the wager does not make this assumption because the Bible does not teach that someone can "make" themselves believe, and therefore this is a straw man assumption.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            There is no evidence that the god of the bible is any more "real" than any other god that mankind has created over the centuries. In fact, there is ample evidence that shows the biblical god cannot be true.

            Yahweh is only one of many Hebrew gods, Elohim, which the ancient Hebrews worshiped.

            In The Criticism and the Verdict of the Monuments, Oxford professor of Assyriology A. H. Sayce maintained: 'Even the most devoted adherents of the supreme God of Israel sometimes admitted that he was but supreme among other gods, and David himself, the friend of seers and prophets, complains that he had been driven out of 'the inheritance of Yahveh' and told to go and 'serve other gods' (1 Sam. xxvi. 19)."

            In The Religious Teachings of the Old Testament, Albert C. Knudson, a professor in the Boston University School of Theology, also pointed out:
            "The sole godhead of Yahweh was a truth that was only gradually attained. The different steps in this development may be distinguished with a fair degree of clearness. We begin with the Mosaic age. It was to Moses, as we have seen, that the establishment of Yahweh-worship was due. Previous to his time the Israelites seem to have been polytheists. On one of the cuneiform tablets discovered by Winckler at Boghazkj and belonging to the pre-Mosaic age we read of 'the gods' of the Habiri or Hebrews, and in Josh. 24.2, 14f. and Ezek. 20.7f., 24 we are told that both in Mesopotamia and Egypt the Israelites worshipped other gods. The very name 'Yahweh' also points in the same direction. The manifest purpose of such a name was to distinguish the god of Israel from other gods. If the Hebrews had not believed in the existence of other deities, there would have been no need of giving a personal name to the Divine Being through whom they were delivered from Egypt. He would have been to them simply God."
            http://einhornpress.com/yahweh.aspx

            Throughout the Bible we are told about the existence of other gods. In Exodus 12:12 Yahweh confirms the existence of other Elohim in Egypt. In Exodus 18:11 Jethro confirms the existence of other Elohim. In Exodus 20:3 Yahweh tells Israel not bring any other Elohim before him. In Exodus 23:32 Moses confirms the existence of other Elohim. In Deuteronomy 6:4 Yahweh tells Israel not to go after other Elohim. In Deuteronomy 6:14-15 and 13:7 Yahweh confirms the existence of other Elohim around the people of Israel. In Joshua 24:2 Joshua confirms that their ancestors served other Elohim. In 2 Samuel 7:23 David confirms that other nations have their own Elohim. In 2 Chronicles Solomon confirms the existence of other Elohim. In Psalm 8:5, 86:8 and 138:1 David confirms the existence of other Elohim. In Psalm 82:1 Asaph confirms the existence of other Elohim. In Hosea 13:4 Yahweh instructs Israel to not know (literally experience) the other Elohim. In Micah 4:5 Micah confirms the nations have their own Elohim. To say that there is only "one" God, is a clear disregard for what the Biblical text actually states. https://sites.google.com/site/yahwehelohiym/an-an…

          • Evermurtle

            There is proof in everything that HE has made, which means all you have to see proof is open your eyes. You think man is so smart. GOD Created the entire universe, but man has created exactly nothing Everything that man has ever mad came from what gave him to work with. GOD made the whole man but you cannot make one little finger. GOD mad the tree but the wisdom of man cannot made one living leaf. Just in those things are miracles and proof that GOD is real and is the CREATOR. Where did man get fire from? or water, or the breath you breathe filled with oxygen? Can man make the oxygen?

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Yep, man can make oxygen.

            Electrolysis a method of separating elements by pushing an electric current through a compound. It is used in various industrial applications such as removing copper from its ore. It is also used to separate hydrogen and oxygen from water

            2H2O(l) = 2H2(g) + O2(g)

            As everyone knows a water molecule is formed by two elements: two positive Hydrogen ions and one negative Oxygen ion. The water molecule is held together by the electromagnetic attraction between these ions. When electricity is introduced to water through two electrodes, a cathode (negative) and an anode (positive), these ions are attracted to the opposite charged electrode. Therefore the positively charged hydrogen ions will collect on the cathode and the negatively charged oxygen will collect on the anode.

            When these ions come into contact with their respective electrodes they either gain or lose electrons depending on there ionic charge. (In this case the hydrogen gains electrons and the oxygen loses them) In doing so these ions balance their charges, and become real, electrically balanced, bona fide atoms (or in the case of the hydrogen, a molecule).

          • keyboardshark

            Jeff says: "Yep, man can make oxygen."

            That is true, but you cannot make it from nothing. You must start with pre-existing materials, which God created..

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            There is still no proof of your god doing anything in this universe.

          • keyboardshark

            But there is no naturalistic explanation for the existence of the universe, so the inescapable conclusion is that it had to have been created supernaturally. That supernatural Creator is none other than God Himself.

          • Dave

            Oh Jeffy Man can NOT make oxygen, they can retract from other elements but Man can NOT make it from scratch, Just like everything else,
            So again Jeff twisting truth as always

          • petroskhan1262

            As I've pointed out before, he is both evil, and a liar. Nothing he says is to be trusted, and nothing he says is to be believed.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            I was asked if man can make oxygen. I showed how man does make that. Not a lie and certainly nothing evil about that normal aspect of our world. But feel free to work yourself up into a frenzy over it.

          • lurl

            but you cannot make one little finger."
            Myrtle the turtle:
            Have you not heard of cloning or cell design? Ears have been made, kidneys have been made and fingers have been made. This is what a nice undifferentiated cell can do. Wait til you see what a differentiated cell can do.

          • petroskhan1262

            Putting something together from existing parts/chemicals is NOT creating it. That's like making something from Lego, and claiming you "made it".

            Nice try. And we'd all enjoy seeing what your brain cells could do someday.

          • Pastor Dwayne

            Jeff,,, You state you write this stuff so other people will see the ignorance of the Bible… I just pray and hope they check each Scripture reference you give , so they can see your stupid ignorance in what you say. maybe instead of just cutting and pasting Atheist material you should read what you are posting ! Example read Ex 23:32 and tell me that is what you have posted in the last paragraph!
            Now you know what the word says , if one thing a prophet says doesn't come true NO ONE IS TO LISTEN TO THAT PROPHET ANYMORE! Just as no one should listen you and your Lies…

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Exodus 23:32
            You shall make no covenant with them or with their gods.

            Yes, that is what I posted. It is obvious you do not know what a lie is. A lie is when someone says something they know is wrong. I am not saying something I know is wrong. I might be incorrect, but that would not be lying.

            Besides, as the arguments that you and Desperateville have been having show, there is no agreement on the Christian side about what the bible means anyway.

          • Evermyrtle

            How long do you think it would that this method of oxygen making to supply the world? Oh, and keep it supplied

          • keyboardshark

            @ Pastor Dwayne: I think that is the reason that many, including professed Christians, are confused. Namely, that they do not bother to compare Scripture with Scripture, or do not know how to Biblically analyze a passage, when one is offered as "proof" of some flaw in the Bible by skeptics.

            In many cases, if a reader would simply apply elementary principles of logic, the skeptic argument can be readily shown to be wanting. In other cases, it may require comparison of Scriptures or the use of a concordance, but far too many Christians are Biblically illiterate or too lazy to search out a passage. When this is not done, the skeptic argument appears to be valid. Just sayin'.

          • lurl

            Why do you call yourself a pastor. You have never placed one foot in front of the other to go up the steps to a known seminary.

          • keyboardshark

            Jeff says: "Yahweh is only one of many Hebrew gods, Elohim, which the ancient Hebrews worshiped. "

            The Hebrew word 'Elohim' is indeed a plural word, and is the most common word that is translated as "God" in the Old Testament, appearing in hundreds of verses, but it is certainly not referring to multiple 'gods' that are legitimate. Rather, it is referring to the trinity:

            "21Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,

            22And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased."

            Here we see the Holy Ghost, the Father (the voice from heaven, the words "my beloved Son") and Jesus the Son, all three in one passage. And there are other passages that show the trinity as well. Whenever 'Elohim' is used in the context of the God of Israel, it refers to the trinity.

            The Hebrew word "Yahweh" or actually "Yehovah" or "Yehovih" sometimes transliterated as "Jehovah" means 'the self-existent or eternal one' and is usually translated as "God" and "Lord" or "LORD" . It is used when God wants to emphasize that He is the self-existent one, but it is certainly no indication that it refers to some separate 'god'.

            "O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth." Isaiah 37:16

            The word "LORD" in this passage is "Yehovah" and the two uses of the word "God" is "Elohim", yet they are clearly referring to the same God, namely, the God of the Bible.

            The other speculative narrative by the skeptic Albert C. Knudson has nothing to do with the God of the Bible. There was no 'gradual attainment' of Yahweh as sole God. Yahweh is mentioned as early as Genesis 2, long before the time of Moses:

            "4These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD ("Yehovah") God made the earth and the heavens,

            5And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD ("Yehovah") God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

            While it is true that disobedient Israelites worshiped foreign gods at various times, there is no indication that these had anything to do with the God of the Bible, but were rather false gods that Yehovah condemned the israelites for worshiping.

            "In Exodus 12:12 Yahweh confirms the existence of other Elohim in Egypt." So what? It is just using the plural form of 'God" to indicate that there were false 'gods' in Egypt.

            "12For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.

            Just because it uses the same Hebrew word to describe it does not mean that the Egyptian gods were legitimate or had anything to do with the God of the Bible. It is simply referring to multiple false gods by use of the Hebrew language. Same goes for the other passages cited.

            "To say that there is only "one" God, is a clear disregard for what the Biblical text actually states." No, the Bible text indicates there are multiple false gods, and that the God of the Bible reveals Himself as three distinct persons, but there is no indication that the Bible acknowledges multiple Gods that are true Gods.

            So the Bible does indeed give us evidence that the God of the Bible is "real" and that any other god that mankind has created over the centuries is false, if one reads carefully and does not try to force something that it does not say

          • Annie

            You said it so much better than I could. The religious are so narrow minded and shallow.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Would you show how deep and wide you are?

        • lurl

          Think about this Ron….
          I don't care…I expect nothing and I have nothing to lose. Have you ever seen anyone come back from the dead. Don't quote the fairy tale myths from your error filled bible it means nothing to me.
          I come from 3 generations of Atheists and not one looked for any-kind of god on their death bed.
          You take your myth and live happily in it and then realize that only a small number of people on this earth have anything to do with your religion or its beliefs. Every group/society has their way of dealing with the proclivities of this universe and they do very well not following the hundreds of xians tenets. I prefer to be successful on my own and not have to share my life, money and adventure with any stupid xian law.

          • Dave

            lurl I have came back from the dead, I was dead for 22min the first time and 2cn time for 13 min and third time for 28 min and on the way to the morg, So Yes there is a heaven, also there are many of us have same experiences of death and meet our lord. I was a athiest until 11 yrs ago when i first died from a head troma, 2 and 3 time heart failures. but when you see the lord it is undescribable and the landscape, flowers,fields and that song wow that song does NOT leave you.

            Let me ask you this, can you see oxygen the answer should be No, So how do you know it is there? Well That because you can breathe you would say. Can you see radiation? That would be a No. so how would you where not to go or be killed?( no Tools)?

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            that explains the brain dead aspect of your postings.

          • Evermyrtle

            Talking about brain dead……………….???????????????.

          • lurl

            Ever see the Radiologists wearing a little badge? It shows how much radiation they are exposed to.
            Expose Oxygen to deep cold and see what happens i could go on and on but heart failures and losing consciousness is not death. You have to be without detectable breath for at least 3 minutes to be declared dead.
            I doubt you were an Atheist just a lapsed catholic or whatever. I have seen a lot of you who seem to think there is an afterlife but I have never seen a pronounced person alive.

          • Dave

            Again Lurl you can NOT see, you have to have equipment or some out side source, so arguement is in valid.
            Again Lurl You assume, Do you know what happen to people that assume, Like crossing the street and you assume that car will stop, or walking around a corner and you assume nobady there but does run in you.
            And Yes your chatting with one Now that was Pronounce covered with a white sheet on a cold dark slab freezer.

            Again lurl you assume that there is No after life, but how do you know for sure? do you assume and take a chance, or maybe Just maybe that there may be a afterlife, and yes so Many athiest have seen and believe in Jesus and heaven, Like the most famous is a little girl at the age of 4 say and was taught to draw and paint the face of Jesus, and YES her family was athiest!!.

            So Lurl you keep assuming and see where it takes you.

          • lurl

            You are the one with the happy underworld. Great opera you might like to listen to that deals with the underworld and all its creatures. Find it, listen to it and see what you get out of it.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Dave asks, "Do you know what happen to people that assume"

            Yes, they make assumptions.

            Do you know what happens to people who continually show they are incapable of producing a coherent thought?

          • lurl

            Too bad you just didn't stay dead. Then you could have joined your heavenly dad and afterlife.
            Why is it your kind are so unwilling to die and hurry off to the promised land? You all want to fight to stay here?
            Have you seen many xians die? I have and they are the most distraught of all I have ever seen. Watching an Atheist die, or Buddhist, or Shintoist die is a passing away without drama, facial distortions and discomfort.
            I have never seen one of the so-called non-believers die in a state of panic and anxiety xians, on the other hand, usually have to have a lot of after-work done when they want open caskets.

          • Dave

            Next question What IF your wrong? what then? Do you know what happen when we Christians are right where you would Go? or what it is? I have met a few people that been there, and they were athiest as well,Today they were so scared from there experience they search for answer and became christian. Couple of them became paster and ministers.
            So Lurl before you play game and just guess why don't you search for yourself the answer,The truth because when your wrong it will not be fun and games. But when the truth come and hits like a train hang on because it is a ride that does NOT stop and it is great. Unless yoru affraid.
            What it sounds to me that your gambleing and who says your not sharing you life NOW? What it sound like your shareing you life with a entity that is and will take everything from you, and he is NOT a nice one to be around.
            I live by the Bible and I am very successful, so is my family, we work hard,play harder, but we have God in our lives with NO regrets. I have multible home,Boats, motor homes. Yes we can NOT take it us, but what we do share it with others and remeber how we recieved these guifts by putting God first above all Names.

          • lurl

            You need to share a spelling book with someone who can teach you something.
            I do hope you stop in your richly filled life to give your time, money and help to others.
            Your god has not treated many as well as it has treated you.
            Now go on your god hunt. I won't be with you.

          • Evermyrtle

            Why are you up set about his spelling,. who should be worried about spelling Atheist correctly?

          • lurl

            Because it is very difficult to read when every other word is incorrectly spelled or used.
            English is NOT my native language therefore, it is a problem for me.
            If I were to be born again I would have to be German…love the precision of that language.
            Latin too, is a great learning tool.

          • Dave

            Well sorry to here that Lurl that you will not joining us as we enter the gates of heaven, but remember this thow you have been told and shown, but you will refuse to see or hear, but as it is written YOU WILL be entering the Gate of hell for enternity,(which if you did NOT know that a very long time) It is sad,very sad, But remeber Jesus does love you, He went to the Cross for YOU

          • lurl

            Remember this:
            Don't feel your way is the right way. There are many philosophies out there that would truly confound you.
            I don't accept you belief nor any of the little plays you have put up for viewing.
            This is YOUR story, your belief your vision from your delusions not mine.
            No one went to any cross for me nor for any other person.

          • Dave

            Lurl I have done More with my time than ANY athiest to help, guid,Teach and work. I operate well that run water in poor countries, I supply Soup Kitchen with food and work the kitchen, I support shelter for Batter womans,
            My Daught does More than all the athiest put together and she is only 24.

            So what have you done today?
            I help a single mother get food for her 2 children, I help a 77 yr old ladie with her lawn, I stoped at a 83 yr old man just for a coffee this morning and have a chat, Stopped a saw a collage student that I am putting through school. that was before Dinner time, tonight I am off to a meeting at the soup kitchen then start serving food, Then see what happen after that.
            So Lurl what have you done today?
            My wife and daughter are in North Carolina to help with mission group to help prevent Human trafficing of young girls and other forms.

            So again Lurl what have you done today?
            I am NOT bragging Baught you again assume something that make you feel better but the truth is that you stepped in it and stuck your foot in your mouth!

          • lurl

            And I care for 30 or so women Monday, Wednesday and Friday and do surgical procedures on Tuesday and Thursday.

          • petroskhan1262

            You have the gall to complain about someone's spelling? This from the man who thinks the plural of virus is virii?

            Wow. Just plain wow.

        • lurl

          It is your problem to deal with not ours. We don't believe in your versions of an afterlife.

          • Evermyrtle

            I read a story where a guy in hell was begging a Christian to "put a drop of water on my "tongue."

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Really? So, why would there be a Christian in hell for this guy to beg anything from?

          • Dave

            What do you believe then Lurl?

          • lurl

            Humankind!

      • Robert De Leon

        Have you been there? How do you know there is no Heaven an no Hell?
        Robert

        • Chris P

          Because there is no mechanism for getting there – duh.

        • lurl

          There is NO evidence for either only the fairy tales of the middle ages.

          • Dave

            the evidence are from the ones who witness the places, Again Lurl you assume!!

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            No, you are assuming that the stories are true because the authors supposedly witnessed the events. However, the people who wrote the bible are not the disciples and are unknown.

        • lurl

          i don't have to believe in your fantasy to know that I do not accept it as fact or as anything else.
          So you chose if you want to go to a heaven or a hell your vision not mine.

      • BillK

        There is so much solid proof of God the Creator that you have to be blind not to see it. Of course, if you refuse to look, you will never find truth. It's a choice with a heavy price to be paid after death. The day is coming when EVERY knee shall bow before Him, like it or not. God states that "The fool says in his heart there is no God". Your reason for not searching for Him…you want to continue being guiltless in your own mind and continue in your lifestyle, unaccountable. BUT, everyone was created to live for eternity, the choice of where is ours. I will pray for you because I do not want to see any suffer Hell for eternity. Want proof? Go to Amazon and order a copy of the Grant Jeffrey book "The Mysterious Bible Codes". Do not use any other of the many bible codes books because none but this one have been written with solid, truthful accuracy. If that doesn't convicne you that you are on the wrong road nothing will. To be an atheist requires a mental attitude and an enormous unquestioning FAITH and trust in bogus mind boggling philosophy. Choose wisely, eternity is forever.

        • Chris P

          How much time to spend creating this fact free drivel?

        • lurl

          Being an Atheist is the easiest thing in the world. No one owes you anything and you owe no one anything.
          You survive in a world that is filled with DREAM SEEKERS. You people, xians, don't want to face reality. You want some big daddy in the sky who will just give you everything including your beloved pie-in-the-sky!
          You never learn to stand on your own or perform at your peak ability! Why? Because you believe in this mythological afterlife where you don't get anything in the here and now but it will come to you after you die.
          Good luck.
          I would rather have a great life now as it is the only life we will live.

      • John

        When you take your last breath, You will meet the Judge, Jury all in a split of a second! Then you will be charged and convicted of your black heart and dead soul, Then once you are tossed into Hell you will meet the one who stole your heart, spirt and soul for all Eternity where you will have plenty of time to think about your stupidity!!!

        • Chris P

          Rubbish. Somebody brainwashed you when you were a kid. It's not possible.

          • 48kindagal

            I don't mean to be unkind, Chris P, but it is actually atheists who brainwash their kids. Children are born with an innate knowledge of God. They naturally have strong faith. It has to be brainwashed out of them, which is what happens when the parents have no faith and prevent the child from actually learning to know just Who this God is Who created them, how much He loves them, how they can truly know Him intimately, and that He has a wonderful plan for their lives. Without teaching through Sunday School, books, prayer, and the witness of their parents and others, they eventually lose their spirituality. No one ever stays in one place spiritually. If you're not growing, you're going backwards. It happens to adults also, who once walk with God and then drift away.

          • lurl

            Golly gee whiz! Here I thought all you people believed that the child is born into sin.
            They are born with the only innate knowledge that anyone has.
            They want to be warm, fed, poop and have infantile sex.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Be as unkind as you like, it makes no difference. Children are born as a blank slate. Raise them in a Muslim environment, they will most likely be Muslim. Raise in a Hindu environment and they will most likely to be Hindu. The vast majority of children are of the same religion as their parents. Contrary to your statement, there was no one who had a revelation of Jesus in countries where he was unknown until someone came along and informed the people in that area about him.

            An Inuit hunter asked the local missionary priest: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?" "No," said the priest, "not if you did not know." "Then why," asked the Inuit earnestly, "did you tell me?"
            -Annie Dillard

          • 48kindagal

            In regards to the article-first-do they seriously call that "thinking"? Did you read their comments? Do those people make you proud to be one of them? C'mon. They're cultish. And second-my heart goes out to those who were abused by so-called "religious" parents. The parents will answer dearly one day for their abuse. But why in the world would anyone let someone's phoney "religion" keep them from Jesus? Read the Gospels with an open mind. Find out just what Jesus thought of the super-religious people of His day.

          • lurl

            it didn't exist therefore there is no 'real' jesus other than my gardener. I am waiting for him to walk on the water in m pool.

          • DonL

            lurl, what makes you so important that you think that God should give you special evidence. Jesus died on the cross for you isn't that sufficient. Read John 3:18

          • lurl

            Yes your god should give me special evidence. It is so powerful surely such a little thing shoudln't be a problem.
            But on the other hand, I don't believe in your god and I don't believe in myths, fantasy or your bible.

          • ProudPrimate

            Ever heard of irony? Satire? Spoofing?

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Doubting Thomas got to touch the wounds. We only ask for the same consideration.

          • Evermyrtle

            Is this the kind of comments that got her a score of 83????

        • 48kindagal

          John, all of that is true. It is. But beating them over the head with our self-righteous condemnation is getting them no closer to the Savior.

        • CJM2

          Be careful John—YOU will also be held accountable for what you have done on this earth and could very well find yourself suffering the same fate you have condemned those you consider Godless. From what you have written, one could discern that you are a 'CINO' (christian in name only).

        • lurl

          And when you die are you not going to be surprised, since you believe their is a conscious knowing after death, that there is no god, no heaven, no hell and no nothing. Being dead is being dead and that is it.
          What a great surprise you will have.

          • Evermyrtle

            If we are as dead as you think we will be dead, just how are we going to be surprised??

          • lurl

            You will figure it out somehow. You xians always play the victim this will be just one more chance.

          • Evermyrtle

            We don't need to figure out anything. We already know. You are the one who Will be surprised and it will be too late to d anything about your place in hell. There is an answer, though. Accept JESUS CHRIST AND YOU WILL HAVE A PLACE WITH HIM. Not a command, just a suggestion.We do not try to ram anything down your throa,t but we would love to know you are saved.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            You need to figure out everything, for you do not understand anything.

        • lurl

          It is your life and your belief. You will be the one in for a big deep sleep!
          You will not have to think about anything but then you don't so that now do you!

          • ProudPrimate

            "then you don't so that now do you!"

            you meant, "then you don't do that now do you!"

            See the Edit button on your post? You can fix it and no one will know, because I can remove this when you do.

          • lurl

            The edit button had already disappeared.
            By the time I got back from the ER too much time had passed, evidently.

        • DonL

          Your pretty much correct John on what you said except for one thing, there is no jury in heaven. The trial is here on this earth and there three on your jury. Jesus who is voting for you, Satan who is voting against you, and yourself the one who breaks the tie. When you die the jurys decision is made and the judgepronounces the sentance. (You are guilty until you are pronounced innocent.) Read John 3:18

        • lurl

          I have seen a lot of dead hearts and none of them were black…now lungs….that is another problem.
          How is it that you have a spirit and a soul? How can that be John. Can you prove the existence of either?
          Are we speaking in terms of Ectoplasm?

      • Onemom

        According to atheist thinking, not just death but life itself is means nothing but hopelessness. Atheism = nihilism.

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          It is sad that you cannot see that life itself is full of hope and joy. Friends, family, work and play are all aspects of what makes a life fulfilled. A belief in a myth adds nothing to your life, for you are seeking imaginary goals.

        • lurl

          Atheism is a life filled with all kinds of joy and sadness. Just like all others we will lose our beloved ones but are satisfied to know they have had a great lives not based on obeying any vengeful god but because they made their own way and their own successes.
          Nihilism is what you find in xianity where you can not change anything and your life is guided, or misguided, by a book filled with error, supposition, myth and lies.
          We are very hopeful and unlike your kind we live positive lives.

          • Pastor Dwayne

            Lurl,,, it is a real positive life when you KNOW you are not going to where it is so hot you can't understand why you don't die , and live that way eternally !

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            If atheists would not be limited only to their natural sight which is only about 1% of known electromagnetic spectrum and could see truly they would recognize they true look which is hinted at here: http://bit.ly/rY4jQv

          • lurl

            Fakir Dwayne,
            That is your story not mine.

          • lurl

            Your plan not mine. When I die and go to the crematorium that is it honey.
            So take your expectations and go where you think you will be welcomed. What if you have done one thing against your vengeful god? Do you really think you will be welcomed into the promised land.

          • Dave

            How DO YOU KNOW?
            Where your HOPE?
            Like I said before, I was a athiest, But things changes. When I was there was NO hope, always in trouble, did NOT care about anyone, Just LIKE you thought that I was better than everyone else.
            And It was like that all My teens all the way until mid twenties. Then I died and it all started to change but it did not end, died again and WOW a wake up call died the 3 time and actually Talk to God Himself, And Guess what
            I am 47 alive and still talk to God everyday and he answers. That is SOO Cool, and NOW i have HOPE, I care, I want to do more, I feel different.

            So Lurl It is undescribeable life I have NOW

      • Evermyrtle

        The body dies, the soul lives on!! These souls go to the one that we gave our trust and service to, and will live there forever. We have a little control over which place and which one, with whom we will dwell. We give our allegiance either to GOD the CREATOR or to Satan, which is sometimes stated as "the world." Each and everyone of us will be judged by GOD before we go to the final dwelling place. He decides if HE will accept us, through HIS GRACE according of how we lived, whether we accepted HIS SON as our Savior or shunned HIM and continued to throw slurs at HIM. If HE decides we were true in our claims and He will give us every credit possible, how we believe and serve HE will accept us into HIS KINGDOM. Those HE does not accept HE will send them to the one they honored and served, the one who led them in the shunning and slurring and cursing HIM and HIS SON and they too, will live forever.

        • lurl

          These souls Myrtle the turtle…can't just live on by themselves. According to Origen they are awaiting re-incarnation.

    • skipfoss

      The same goes for the terrorist that we have living among us ,but there is little diffrence int the two groups they are both out to destroy what our country stands for

      • Evermyrtle

        What two groups are you referring to??? The only two that I know about are GOD'S group, called Christian, and the anti-GOD group. By the way, all who call themselves Christian are not Christians. There are many who are working for the antichrist and call themselves Christians. No, I will not be the judge, but you do know them by the fruit they bare.

        • lurl

          Myrtle dearest you have already judged…what do you mean you will not judge.
          By the way if a fruit tree is bare it will not bear anything so don't waste your time.

      • lurl

        Why would Atheists want to destroy this country? We live here too. You have a hard time understanding those who are unlike yourself. What you want to see is a country that reflects back that which you see in a mirror.
        So skip to the loo my darling and accept the fact you have NO plurality in this country.

    • della

      Jerry, I wish Obama understood this. God can take his breath away at any time. First death and then the judgement. We only have one life to live and there are no guarantees on the length of it.

      • alk

        Since obama thinks he is god, he is only doing what he was appointed to do, bring total financial ruin to this country and as all the other countries do the same, then the antichrist can arrive just like hitler did in Germany, remember the 1st 3.5 yrs of the tribulation are to make it look good and prosperous, then the Vail is ripped off and the next 3.5 yrs will be very traumatic. One thought is that they may assassinate obama and put Hillary in, that would really be something, so watch my friends, we are waiting for the last Pope to come on the scene as soon as they get rid of the present one, this will be the last Pope, called the RED POPE, the 7yr peace treaty in Israel, so there you have it, we get Hillary in and the Red Pope and we have the antichrist and the false (Profit) .

        • lurl

          Alk
          Is that short fro alcoholic? Must be as your statements are those that are thought up by a very disturbed mind and diseased brain.
          You to give evidence of the racist attitudes of the xian milieu. Are you allowed to leave your room by yourself or must your keepers go with you..please remember to take you Lithium; you will not be safe without it.
          Sorry you feel that our great President Obama must be killed. Do you want his family gone too?

          • Evermyrtle

            Lurl, are you only an atheist, or are you one of those who hate CHRIST and GOD. You know there is a huge difference! I could be wrong but I believe that "Atheist" means not believing in any god and they go about minding their own business and not bothering anybody ,just like we as Christians do. Another fact is: every person who claims to be a Christian is not really a Christian, Jesus says that many shall be called, meaning those who claim to be Christians, but few will be chosen.

          • lurl

            Fear not there is no god or christ to hate. The names are meaningless to us.
            When do you as an xian go about not bothering anyone. You are constantly causing problems because there is an ever growing group that thinks and they deny your beliefs are valid.
            So you are a JW eh! 122,000 and are you amongst them?

          • Evermyrtle

            Why are you so against us as Christians, if that is your opinion? Why not just leave us alone with our dreams, because according to what you seem to be saying, if there in no harm in them? Why try to destroy our dreams? I believe you are not being completely honest in what you are declaring, is the reason you become upset!! You don't get up set?? You could have fooled me!!!.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            She is demonized and no amount of "love" can make her love. Shake off your sandals and move on…

          • lurl

            I get very upset when your kind knocks on my door when I have been up all night and wants to shove your tracts down my throat. Actually recently two of you were forcibly removed from my doorway.
            This is a private walled community…yet your kind broke the law and came into this area.
            Therefore, those two and four more were very fortunate in spending a long weekend in jail.
            Perhaps they could preach to each other.

          • Linda F.

            So those of us who dare to disagree with you are incapable of thinking, according to you? Who do you think you are, lurl? Believe it or not, lurl, there are those of us who have examined the evidence and come to the conclusion that God's existence is very obvious. Which means that we have put a lot of thought into that conclusion … which means that, contrary to your arrogant and ignorant assumption, we are thinking human beings. You would see the obvious proof of God's existence if you weren't so busy living with your head in the sand!

            Just when I thought the level of an atheist's arrogance couldn't be any higher, you came along and proved me wrong.

            I hope and pray that you and your fellow atheists will wake up and see the light, and that you will be greatly humbled before it's too late.

      • lurl

        Oh Della,
        What a wonderful racist xian approach you have towards out president. Did you feel the same when the most stupid president we have ever had took away your rights and freedoms?
        We know how religious he was don't we.
        Do you realize that your predictions only relate to those who accept your premise? Wake up.

      • Evermyrtle

        Oh Lurl,
        If I remember, this is the first one who ever worked to put my SAVIOR, out of the works. HE hates JESUS CHRIST and deny's it There is no other reason to try to get rid of HIM. But I can tell him, IT WON'T WORK!!JESUS CHRIST WILL BE FREE A LONG TIME AFTER THIS FAKE IS GONE

        • lurl

          Speak up Myrtle the turtle:
          What fake are you speaking of?

    • alk

      an atheist can be a professing christian sitting in church, that is a womanizing adulterer, a druggie who has no intention of quitting, a pediphile, a liar, thief or any other immoral deeds, Mat: 7-16 you shall know them by their fruits, what does Rom 15:33 tell us? Most churches today will tell you once saved always saved regardless of what you do as long as you attend church and pay tithes. when asked if we could sin, it stated GOD FORBID, check your search window for those who won't inherit the Kingdom.

      • lurl

        ALK,
        Thanks for giving us full insight into the life you live. Just like all xians..you are the adulterer, druggie, paedophile
        etc. Nice of you to stand up and proclaim what you people really do.
        Get those meds out and get them quick.

  • ajfrench

    I find that self proclaimed atheists are children of divorce and have endured hardship as a result. They blame God for their pathetic lives when it is lust, greed, sexual immorality, and selfish gain inflicting those who should have taught these children. They never heal of the scars as they never allow God in to change their circumstances. If you have ever spoken to one, you would agree the above description pretty much sums up who they are. They need a lot of love and attention. Understanding their diatribe is a lot harder to ask.

    • Chris P

      That's complete and utter rubbish. Most divorces occur between Christians so I don't know wher you drag your crazy claim from. Other than the fact that the children see their Christian parents as hypocrites for promising before their made up God to stay together and then not doing so.

    • CJM2

      And I know just as many children of divorce who are God loving individuals leading a blessed life. Your description is erroneous profiling of a particular group of people. And by the way, there are just as many children from married families and non-married families that could fit the description you gave, with twice the number fitting the description I provided. Seems to me you have a notion about divorce being sinful, therefore, anything derived in such a situation is to be demeaned…and understanding anyone's diatribes is difficult at best, but is not resigned to be found only among children of divorce. However, by diatribes, are you speaking of a person's disenchantment of God/Christ? Furthermore, any person who sufferred the hardships of life could use some understanding, love, and attention–go visit a person sitting in a jail or prison or an unforgotten senior citizen left abandoned in a nursing home. A loving gesture towards one of these individuals will do you a wealth of good.

      • lurl

        Bravo CJM2.
        Nice to see a person who thinks for themselves and believes what they believe because they want to and are not threatened into eternity by a vengeful god and its minions.
        Have a great life and go in peace.

      • Dave

        How about You do the same CJM2. What have you done today?
        My daughter would PUT YOU to shame!!

    • lurl

      It is obvious you have never met an Atheist! I am from a marvelous family with three generations of happily married couples or those in dedicated relationships.
      Not one divorce has taken place in this family. I know of only one family in which divorce occurred and that was because the husband, a very weak individual, changed into an xian. After four years of playing that game he left their beliefs too and is now a JW.

  • ProudPrimate

    What An Atheist Looks AT

    Only what's there.

    Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. [Heb. 11:1]

    No kiddin'! You guys believe in things you hope for, but for which your belief is the only evidence, i.e., no evidence at all. Evidence rather of wishful thinking.

    • Brian

      But Athiests put great faith in no evidence as well, they only claim they don't, and hope like hell they are right that there is no God. Atheists hope they aren't accountable to a Creator, they hope that nothing made everything, they hope a cosmic accident of combining protien strands somehow led to intelligent life. All without any evidence and a great leap of faith. But atheists are so dishonest they deny their reality.

      • Chris P

        I don't put faith in things there is no evidence for. I KNOW that there is NO WAY for the information content in my brain to survive my death.

        You are too clueless to notice that Alzheimer's patients lose most of their personality and knowledge even BEFORE they die.

        Oh to know so little about your own body.

        • cyoder

          No, you don't know that for sure. You certainly can't speak from personal experience.

        • Tim

          Chris, you haven't died and actually observed that for yourself, so how can you make an authoritative claim that information/knowledge doesn't continue after physical death?

          The Bible on the other hand does claim that mankind will have memory and knowledge after death. You may reject the Bible as false, but that is your issue to deal with.

          • Evermyrtle

            You are right but depend on it, you and he will eventually die and meet my SAVIOR, JESUS CHRIST face to face. Before JESUS will be every person who has ever lived. He will separate us into two groups. One group will be those who accepted HIM as THE SON OF GOD AND WHO TRIED TO LIVE ACCORDING TO HIS COMMANDMENTS, this group will live with HIM in Heaven for all eternity. The other group will be assigned to their leader, Satan.that will be the much larger group. For many will be called but few chosen-Matt14:11. This group will also live eternally but this will be in the place chosen by Satan. He choses it by living the anti-Ggod, anti-CHRIST life and taking billions along with him.

          • lurl

            Boy myrtle the turtle even now you are given to great hysterical leanings.
            Here you are citing your three headed snake god again.
            How long have you been conversing with your dear satan. You claim to know so much about him there must have been very long talks with him and about what he is doing. How dare he go about this earth like a roaring lion. What a no no!

        • Kent Perry

          Oh but there is a way. Can you tell me what the information content, you know the memory of what you had for breakfast for example, what is that memory made out of?

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            As with much of the functions of the brain, scientists are working on that. However, they have determined some of the basics.

            At the most basic level, memories are stored as microscopic chemical changes at the connection points between neurons in the brain.

          • lurl

            Indeed, they have shown the storage areas and they a chemical bursts in the synapse just another eletric conductor on its way to do something.
            It amounts to much as the same where a dying person has the white lights syndrome.

      • ProudPrimate

        That is certainly stretching the meaning of words. Supernaturalists hope for things that have never been seen. I guess you could say atheists hope that the things that have always been seen, like the sun coming up again day after day, will continue to happen.

        Yours is an artificial use of the word "faith", because as I quoted above, the writer to the Hebrews rightly stated,

        Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. [Heb. 11:1]

        • Tout

          Nothing stays always 'nothing'.There has to be something that had no beginning, but existed always, will exist always. That "always" made everything. We find, it was very smart, very intelligent. We call it God. He has no beginning, will have no end. He created everything. Will bring the good in Heaven, but reject the bad in hell. So you choose where you will end up; also for 'ever'.

          • lurl

            You refer to you god as "he." What would you do if it were a "she."

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            You have "she god" already baby killer. Look in that mirror to see her… Scary sight too.

        • Paul

          There is much to see, much that we do see
          For since the creation of the world His [God's] invisible attributes, His eternal nature and almighty power have been seen, being understood through that which has been made, so they are without excuse.

        • lurl

          Bravo again…Primate…you are showing your primacy!

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            This is not a game or race and even if it would then atheist are running in circles chasing themselves only :)

        • keyboardshark

          ProudPrimate says: " I guess you could say atheists hope that the things that have always been seen, like the sun coming up again day after day, will continue to happen."

          Why of course that's right, we Christians do not believe in the sun rising or setting and by extension planetary motion. Just one problem. Kepler, who developed Kepler's laws of planetary motion, was a Bible-believing Christian. http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencef…

          Atheists most certainly believe in things that cannot be seen. For example, they believe that the universe was created by the Big Bang, yet they cannot even explain where the supposed pre-existing material necessary for the supposed BB came from. There is no plausible explanation for a naturalistic origin to the universe because it violates known Laws of science.

          Atheists also believe in evolution, even though it is a process that supposedly occurred in the past yet is not occurring today, and is therefore not observable. They also cannot explain how the first life form came into existence by natural means, yet we are supposed to believe this is true as well. There is no way to observe origins of the universe or of life, yet evolutionists very definitely have beliefs about these.

          So the idea that evolutionists only believe things they can see is ludicrous.

          • ProudPrimate

            even though it is a process that supposedly occurred in the past yet is not occurring today, and is therefore not observable.

            Nonsense. Every time the flu virus mutates and requires a different vaccine, that is proof of evolution. Tiny things evolve the fastest.

            But here's a small thing that still evolves fast enough to observe:

            I read about a small rodent in Brazil that was studied by a team — written up in the weekly journal Science, as I recall, which I subscribed to for seven years, until my time wouldn't allow me to read them anymore. The population of these rodents was divided geographically by the building of a superhighway. At the start of the building, the project began also, doing constant testing of the two now divided populations. After two years of being unable to visit one another, the two groups had grown to differ so much genetically that they could only rarely interbreed. That is called a sub-species differential. Without constant interbreeding the two genomes drift apart, and become distinct.

            It's really a simple concept. You should be able to wrap your head around that. The same thing happens in languages. After all, DNA is a language, made up of words spelled with the four letters G, T, A, C.

            When Hengist and Horsa accepted the invitation of King Vortigern of what was left of Roman Britain to come and help him fight off the Picts to his north, they brought with them the languages of Low Germany (around what is now Bremen, Hamburg, and Jutland). That was 455 AD. Now, of course, "English" is no longer Anglo-Saxon, no longer able to "interbreed" with Dutch, Low German and High German. There are more words that match than say, Chinese, but not enough for a conversation. That is the equivalent of these rodents that can no longer produce fertile offspring with their separated counterparts.

            The concept is so simple, only those with a vested interest in your mythology can miss it.

            As Upton Sinclair (author of The Jungle) once observed, 'It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.'

            Here it's not your salary that conflicts, but your fear of facing your own mortality.

          • keyboardshark

            ProudPrimate says: "Every time the flu virus mutates and requires a different vaccine, that is proof of evolution."
            Utter nonsense. The virus is simply re-shuffling existing genetic information so that the resistance becomes the dominant trait. Not only that, there is no change of form or function. We start with a virus and we end with a virus. Where is the 'evolution'? There is none.

            A sub-species differential is not evolution either. There is no new genetic information being created. If anything, it is a loss of genetic information since they are no longer able to interbreed. Also, once again, we start with a small rodent, and we end up with, surprise, the same small rodent, only it has lost its ability to interbreed. The rodent did not experience any upward mobility to a higher life form, which is what evolution claims will happen. No new genetic information was created.

            I'm fully aware of what DNA is. In fact, it is so complex that there is no possibility that it could have created itself. Complex information, such as DNA, does not arise spontaneously from matter. As you have said, DNA is a language–a language which transmits complex instructions for the structures of living creatures. There isn't the slightest possibility that DNA could have arisen purely by chance. Again, information does not arise by chance.

            The only fear I have is the fear of misinformation being spread to gullible souls that will accept illogical nonsense such as evolution without doing their own independent study, but rather relying on the dogma of secular scientists who are openly hostile to anything supernatural, even when the supernatural explanation is the only one that fits the evidence.

          • ProudPrimate

            ProudPrimate says: "Every time the flu virus mutates and requires a different vaccine, that is proof of evolution."
            Utter nonsense. The virus is simply re-shuffling existing genetic information so that the resistance becomes the dominant trait. Not only that, there is no change of form or function. We start with a virus and we end with a virus. Where is the 'evolution'? There is none.

            Oy! Where to start? Were you home-schooled?

            "Not only that, there is no change of form or function."

            No change of function? Why do we need a new vaccine every year if the function hasn't changed?

            The virus is simply re-shuffling existing genetic information so that the resistance becomes the dominant trait.

            Guess what? Reshuffled information IS CHANGE. I'll explain that in detail, but first,

            so that the resistance becomes the dominant trait.

            You must have meant to say "the recessive trait becomes the dominant trait." Close but no cigar. But then, Christians shouldn't smoke.

            But on the matter of RESHUFFLED INFORMATION IS CHANGE, let me review the nature of how DNA is translated into protein, and thus into function. Francis Crick, after discovering the DNA with James D. Watson, went on to decipher the GENETIC CODE. What is it? It is a table of amino acids, the natural ones that occur in living things, and are the building blocks of proteins such a flesh and such as enzymes and hormones which are also (very large, i.e., long) protein chains.

            DNA, deoxyribonucleic acid, is a long string of nucleotides, that is, the four nucleic acids, supported by a backbone of ribose, which is a sugar, with phosphates holding the sugar molecules together. The four nucleic acids in DNA are Guanine, Adenine, Cytosine, and Thymine. DNA genetic heritage is the successor to the earlier RNA, ribonucleic acid, which served as genetic treasury for early simple creatures, and still serves many subsidiary functions, especially the machinery of copying DNA and facilitating the assembly of proteins. RNA is composed of the same nucleotides, with the exception of thymine, which is in RNA represented by Uracil. So the genetic code is expressed by those four initials, G, A, C, U.

            Each amino acid in the protein self-assembles, with the aid of enzymes, on a template of transfer RNA. Each one automatically responds to one or more combinations of three nucleotides.

            You can google "genetic code", but let me just list the first few:

            UUU or UUC produces Phenylalanine — the amino acid that makes you sleepy after eating a turkey dinner.

            UUA, UUG, CUU, CUC, CUA, and CUG — any of these provide an assembly point for Leucine, the smallest and simplest amino acid.

            UCU, UCC, UCA, and UCG yield Serine

            There are 22 of these amino acids that self-assemble when the template has three open letters showing. If by some chance, a letter is knocked out, say, by a gamma ray from space, the whole string is then off by one place, so that all the following triplets engender random amino acids until a stop is encountered.

            UAA, UAG, and UGA act as stops. A new gene begins to form after the stop.

            So it is a sign that you don't at all understand the most basic concepts of genetics if you think that a change in the DNA sequence of a living thing, for whatever cause, does not change the form or function.

            I will deal with your other "points" (??) in separate replies.

          • ProudPrimate

            (continued)
            I listened to speech to the National Press Club 15 or so years ago on NPR by Pat Robertson of the Christian Broadcasting Network. At the end of the speech, someone asked him about evolution. His answer tells a lot about the mental tangle you and most supernaturalists have twisted yourselves up into. He said (I'm quoting from memory):

            "I grew up on a farm, and I understand animals. My dad used to breed mules. He'd take a mare and a jackass."

            — here he made a big deal of saying "jackass", not too subtly seeming to refer to his counterparts on the other side of the argument —

            "But the thing about a mule is, it's sterile. It can't reproduce. So really, a mule is not a species. You can't take two separate species and combine them to get a third species. It just can't be done."

            So this is said as if a complete refutation of the concept of evolution. It is anything but. Here is what Mr. Robertson does not understand, or if he does, he's pretending not to.

            Evolution NEVER WAS about combining two existing species to get a new, third one. It's about ONE DIVIDING INTO TWO. Evolution is about one species, divided into two or more separated populations, such as exist on islands in the sea. While they were nearby each other, they mated often enough that small changes were shared, thus the differences were eliminated on the fly, and so did not accumulate into a heap big enough to block conception. But after sufficient time apart and sufficient difference creeps in, conception doesn't work any more. They become like US house current, and European house current. You can't plug the one into the other.

            This is why the greatest examples of large fauna evolution are associated with ISLANDS, like Australia, with it's curious abundance of marsupials and scarcity of placental mammals. Because the continent of Australia broke off from the larger land mass and drifted away critters and all, and they were no longer able to update their DNA with their former relatives.

            To restate: EVOLUTION IS NOT ABOUT COMBINING TWO SPECIES TO GET A THIRD. IT IS ABOUT ONE SPECIES DRIFTING APART INTO TWO OR MORE.

            Pat Robertson's Mare and Jackass story had the whole thing Bass Ackwards!

            I'm fully aware of what DNA is.

            Sir, it is abundantly clear by now, that you do not have a clue about that.

          • keyboardshark

            I cannot defend nor comment on what Pat Robertson may have said because it does not necessarily represent my position on evolution or any other issue. I have arrived at my understanding of the evolution/creation debate by studying various resources on my own, independent of talking-headism (how do you like that word? I just invented it).

            Diversity of flora or fauna on an island does not prove evolution. It simply means that of the plants and animals which God has created, these became distributed on that island for various reasons. Neither proximity nor similarity prove evolution. There would have to be a mechanism for creating huge amounts of entirely new genetic information.

            To go from a single-cell organism to even a simple, muti-cellular organism requires incredibly complex changes. Without a mechanism to create vast amounts of new genetic information, in order for a single cell to be the precursor of all life, it would have to contain all the genetic information necessary to eventually branch off into every life form we see today. Life has never been created in the lab. In order for evolution to have something to tinker with, the first life-form would have had to have been astoundingly complex, not super simple.

            "The origin of life is very problematic to explain using naturalistic mechanisms. A textbook I have used to teach a college-level biology class devotes three full pages to the issue.3 After proposing several theories, all of which are explained using much conditional language such as “perhaps,” “may have,” and “could have,” the authors end the section with this statement:

            “Once the protocells [primitive cells] acquired genes that could replicate they became cells capable of reproducing, and evolution begins” (brackets added).3 The authors are basically saying that the origin of life is so extremely difficult to explain using naturalistic theories that we are going to gloss over it and get to the part we think we know something about.

            There are many origin-of-life theories. Below are descriptions of some of the major ones.

            “RNA world”—RNA was the first molecule (even Shapiro has problems with this theory: “In the very beginning, you couldn’t have genetic material that could copy itself unless you had chemists back then doing it for you”)

            Clay theory—complex organic molecules (DNA, etc.) were formed on clay crystals

            Complexity theory—a computer model for self-organization of organic molecules

            Bacteria first theory—bacteria (such as in the Archaea domain) can live in extreme environments like that found on the proposed early earth, and are relatively “simple” organisms

            Directed panspermia—first organic molecules or living organisms were brought to earth by aliens from outer space

            All of these theories have their own set of problems. What becomes obvious is that evolutionists are really exercising their imaginations rather than engaging in real research as they come up with their origin-of-life theories. In fact, a million-dollar prize (see The Origin of Life Prize) is being offered “for proposing a highly plausible mechanism for the spontaneous rise of genetic instructions in nature sufficient to give rise to life.”
            http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/aid/v1/n…

          • ProudPrimate

            hogwash. It's a waste of time talking to you

          • ProudPrimate

            The reason I deleted several of these posts is that the thread is getting narrow, and the Edit button was no longer available. So I deleted them and moved them back toward the Left Margin. The edit button, which I use a lot to try to make my posts correct, was then accessible again.

          • keyboardshark

            Good heads-up play on moving the posts to expand the thread. They do get quite narrow over time.

          • keyboardshark

            There is no change in form or function. Before, the virus was able to infect individuals. After, it was able to infect individuals. Same function. The only "change" that occurred was that the virus itself was able to survive in a different environment, i.e. in the presence of the new vaccine. Where is there any new form or function? Where is any upward mobility that would eventually transform the virus into a higher life form? I'll answer all the questions for you: There isn't any.

            While re-shuffled genetic information may indeed represent change, this is certainly not macro evolution. Macro evolution requires the creation of entirely new genetic information, not a re-shuffling of existing genetic information. I would totally agree that these types of changes are not only possible, but are common and can be observed today. I have no problem with that whatsoever.

            What I DO have a problem with is the sleight-of-hand substitution of normal processes of natural selection and mutation for the unsubstantiated, abnormal process of macro evolution that supposedly occurred in the past and which we cannot now observe to be occurring. Every evolutionist that I debate will eventually pull this argument off the rack, hoping no one will notice that there is no new genetic information when these natural processes are substituted as 'proof' of evolution. Most do not catch this gimmick, and so it appears that the evolutionist argument has won the day.

            Thanks for the lesson in DNA and the genetic code, which I have also studied these on my own, but I believe you are oversimplifying when you say: " If by some chance, a letter is knocked out, say, by a gamma ray from space, the whole string is then off by one place" While that may be true in theory, how often does a gamma ray from space just happen to knock one letter of an amino acid code out of sequence?

            In the unlikely event that this would happen, it would simply reassemble itself into another ordinary amino acid, or the more likely outcome would be that it was destroyed and unable to reassemble. It would not be some 'new, never-before-seen' amino acid, nor would it result in new genetic information that would lead to an entirely new form or function.

            "So it is a sign that you don't at all understand the most basic concepts of genetics if you think that a change in the DNA sequence of a living thing, for whatever cause, does not change the form or function." No, it is a sign that you do not understand what constitutes a new form or function.

          • ProudPrimate

            So you'd be satisfied if before, the virus infected individuals, but after it can tap-dance, do card tricks, and excellent reupholstery of chairs you had already given up on. Only $19.95. Call now!

            And since the world is only xx thousand years old, clearly that's required, because the slow, steady, effective process that 99% of the trained scientists insist happened over hundreds of millions of years is blocked by our clever stragedy. We've tied your hands so you can't appeal to that logic. Therefore we can spit on your admitted evidence of micro-evolution, because — time's up! You have to have macro in 2 years or we win! HaHaHaHaHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

          • keyboardshark

            Proudprimate says: "So you'd be satisfied if before, the virus infected individuals, but after it can tap-dance, do card tricks, and excellent reupholstery of chairs you had already given up on."

            No, i'd be satisfied with a little less than that. How about if it grows legs?

            "…the slow, steady, effective process that 99% of the trained scientists insist happened over hundreds of millions of years…" Where do you get the 99% figure? But let's assume for the sake of argument that it was indeed 99%

            In fact, I wouldn't care if it was 100% of scientists that said young earth creationism was false and evolution was true. They still have to have a sound, scientific basis for saying something like that, and I have not seen any credible evidence that would prove evolution true or creation false.

            As I explained earlier, neither evolution nor creation can be said to be observable, testable, and repeatable phenomena in the present, so the creation model cannot, by definition, be shown to be false. They can state their OPINION that they believe it is false, but that's all it is–an opinion.

            Truth is not determined by consensus. For example, the vast majority of government economists follow the Keynesian theory of economics, which in essense says that government should intervene in the markets by spending large sums of public money and incurring huge budget deficits, and that fiat currencies should not be held to a gold standard. Fed chairman Ben Bernanke is a typical example of a Keynesian.

            We are now witnessing the destructive effects of this school of thought as most major economies, including (and perhaps, especially) the US, are so deeply in debt that there is no hope they will ever be able to pay off the debt, unless they unleash massive inflation. This inflation would greatly devalue the dollar and would effectively rob US citizens of their money, but would allow the government to pay off the debt in much cheaper dollars, which they would simply print.

            Since the Federal reserve was created in 1913, the value of the dollar has fallen by over 95%, after having remained relatively stable from the founding of the republic until then. The US now has over $15 trillion in National debt, or $49,984.00/citizen, and a staggering $118 trillion in unfunded liabilities such as social security, or $1,044,729.00/taxpayer. http://usdebtclock.org

            We can thank our college-educated, PhD, majority philosophy Keynesian economists for the policies that have effectively led us to financial ruin. Truth from consensus? I don't think so. In fact. I would go as far as to say that when the vast majority of academics "agree" that something is true or is the best system, then it's highly likely that just the opposite is true, and it's time to run as fast as you can in the other direction.

          • ProudPrimate

            A sub-species differential is not evolution either. There is no new genetic information being created. If anything, it is a loss of genetic information since they are no longer able to interbreed. Also, once again, we start with a small rodent, and we end up with, surprise, the same small rodent, only it has lost its ability to interbreed. The rodent did not experience any upward mobility to a higher life form, which is what evolution claims will happen. No new genetic information was created.

            As described in the previous answer, genetic information is not the result of intentional manipulation by any person or thing or process. It is mindless copying, and can originate from damage due to external stresses, including chemical or radiation. As you seem to know, it also occurs due to sexual reproduction in which a gene from one or the other parent is passed down — this of course is the principal method, but again, error creeps in due to the frailty of natural things. Genes go "the way of all flesh", although they are indeed protected by very sophisticated, if mindless, processes of correction and maintenance by enzymes which crawl the length of them, reacting to most errors, like a virus scan is programmed to recognize malicious code in your computer.

            The rodent did not experience any upward mobility to a higher life form, which is what evolution claims will happen.

            Now, you're not thinking when you say that. The chances of flipping a coin and having it land on the edge and stay standing is extremely small. In like manner, when, due to a variety of changes, damages or combinations in one of the populations of the rodent, a trait that did not exist before, a slightly longer tooth, a change in the visual cortex, a different color fur — anything — that will be unlikely to exactly match a change (or no change!) in the other population. As a result, there will be a DIFFERENCE OF ADVANTAGE of the one over the other. If sufficient time separated passes, and the differences in the populations become significant, clearly one will have the better chance in competition for resources of survival if they should ever wind up sharing a living space again. That is precisely the "upward mobility to a higher life form" that you speak about, that you failed to recognize.

            If anything, it is a loss of genetic information since they are no longer able to interbreed.

            You totally misunderstand the matter of interbreeding. IT IS NOT A LOSS OF INFORMATION, IT IS A LOSS OF SHARED INFORMATION.

            In order for a male and a female to produce live offspring, especially to produce fertile offspring which can in turn reproduce, a very, very close match of genome must be in place. Any significant difference in their genomes will prevent conception. In some cases, like lions and tigers producing live offspring, usually called a "liger", the infant is not genetically fertile. The same is true of a mule, the product of a mare and a male ass. A great work animal, strong, with great endurance, but invariably sterile. That is because the horse and the ass are too far apart in their DNA structure. In former ages, they were merely varieties or breeds of the same animal, but now they are two different animals. It's called DRIFT. It's so, so, so simple. But you are desperate to escape the terrible fate of accidentally understanding what I'm saying, because you will lose your illusions of immortality. You would rather keep your illusions than learn this fact of life.

          • keyboardshark

            "Mindless copying errors" are not an engine for the vast amounts of new genetic information, which would be required if evolution were true.

            "…a slightly longer tooth, a change in the visual cortex, a different color fur…" These are all examples of traits that were already present in the gene pool, and became expressed through natural selection, an entirely natural process with which I have stated I concur . It is not evolution, however. You are again substituting micro evolution (changes within a population resulting from a re-shuffling of the gene pool) for macro evolution (changes requiring entirely new genetic information which, if it could occur, would result in entirely new forms (a new organism substantially different from the original) or functions (flight capabilities developing in a previously flightless animal, for example.)

            Most mutations do indeed result in a loss of genetic information. For example, albinoism is a result of a loss of the genetic information that directs pigmentation.

            What does genetic drift have to do with whether evolution is true or not? I understand the concept, even though you imply that I do not. I also understand that only closely related organisms can produce offspring, which is also entirely normal. I have no issues with either concept, except for perhaps your statement regarding a mare and a male ass, which seems speculative: "In former ages, they were merely varieties or breeds of the same animal, but now they are two different animals"

            How either concept has anything to do with your position that evolution is true is beyond me, however. You cannot get around the inescapable conclusion that macro evolution would require vast amounts of new genetic information.

      • lurl

        How wrong can you get? No evidence of evolution? You must be living in a cocoon.

        • keyboardshark

          lurl says: "How wrong can you get? No evidence of evolution? You must be living in a cocoon."

          Please spell out this evidence for us.

        • ProudPrimate

          He could be living in a racoon, too

          • lurl

            Perhaps it could be found in a lagoon or a macaroon!

          • keyboardshark

            Or in a Spanish doubloon.

    • Tim

      Really? Have you been everywhere in the universe? I would venture to say no, you have not. You can't say He doesn't exist, since the scope of what you can observe in the universe is extremely limited.

      I would add that as an supposed atheist, you probably have faith in evolution, since no one living today or in the past has observed it happen. Though it is declared as "fact" by science, it truly is not. It is a theory, the same as creation.

      No one + nothing = Everything. Seems logical to me.

      Seriously, there is ample evidence that God exists, which has been revealed through creation (everything around us) and through conscience, and ultimately through the Word of God, the Bible. You simply choose to ignore it. God, being a perfect gentleman, does not force anyone to believe in Him.

      Without the Word of God, you can't explain the source of knowledge, matter, morality or logic. With evolution, you have chaos, random chemical reactions supposedly mutating into life, eternal evil, no reason behind anything in the universe, and ultimately no hope. You are your own god. Scary but sad thought.

      • ProudPrimate

        Really? Have you been everywhere in the universe?

        Ah, the same old tired agnostic argument. "Until you look in every existing place, you can't say with certainly that the Flying Spaghetti Monster isn't in one of those places." Those meatballs are made with baloney!

        Failed promises have a way of accumulating. Over the centuries, ALL of the promises of "God" have failed to materialize, or were shown to be merely products of the natural world. Every failure causes your credibility to drop by 1%, to pick a number at random.

        The cumulative credibility has long since dropped below measurable amounts. No thinking person falls for that old line any more. You are like the boy that cried wolf, only in your case, even after the woodcutters ceased to fall for it, the wolf still hasn't shown up! LOLs!!!!!!!

        • Linda F.

          Why so bitter, ProudPrimate? If you're so confident in your atheistic POV, why do you feel the need to put down others who don't join you in denying the existence of God? It seems to me that you're not so confident after all.

          • Paul

            Bitterness, anger…it is another promise of God coming to pass.

            For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time.

          • lurl

            Isn't the devil/satan the full brother of your so-called god?

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            Nope, he is your landlord and he is coming to collect what you cannot pay.

          • lurl

            Linda darling,
            Why do you feel the need to put down Atheists who point out to you your useless existence.?
            Obviously you have to defend your belief because your gods have no power and have been found wanting.

        • Paul

          What failed promises?

          Of all God's promises and prophecies, MANY have come to pass exactly as promised. None have ever failed nor been proven false. Some still remain to be fulfilled.

          Why the wait for the remainder? We have that answer as well.

          The Lord is not slack (slow) in His promises, as some count slowness, but He's patient with you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

          • lurl

            Wake up your projections are directed at those of you who believe this crap.
            Those of us who are freed of religious bondage don't rely on your little book of myths, fables, lies and hundreds of gods that all of you xians want to roll into a person? Are you kidding?

        • lurl

          You are missing a couple…the old comment about a watch restoring its self…..order out of chaos!
          They also have problems with the 1 and 2 laws of thermodynamics.
          Basically they believe we are coming apart at the seams and only their three headed snake god can hold them together.

        • keyboardshark

          ProudPrimate says: "Over the centuries, ALL of the promises of "God" have failed to materialize, or were shown to be merely products of the natural world."

          "ALL"? That's a pretty tall claim. I'm going to need some evidence before I bite on that one.

          • ProudPrimate

            Well since I need to disprove thousands, and you only need to prove one to show me in the wrong, how about you choosing the evidence.

            Got ONE?

          • keyboardshark

            Sure. Piece of cake.

            "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

            Micah 5:2

            "Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem," Matthew 2:1

            Now it's your turn to get busy on providing me some of the "thousands". I've already shown your claim of "all" to be lacking.

          • ProudPrimate

            OK, well, as you probably know, there were many Jews who claimed the title of Moshiach besides Jesus of Nazareth, the most notable being Bar Kochba. Wikipedia says:

            The Bar Kokhba revolt (132–136 CE),[2] Hebrew: מרד בר כוכבא‎ or mered bar kokhba, was the third major rebellion by the Jews of Judaea Province against the Roman Empire and the last of the Jewish-Roman Wars. Simon bar Kokhba, the commander of the revolt, was acclaimed as a Messiah, a heroic figure who could restore Israel. The revolt established an independent state of Israel over parts of Judea for over two years, but a Roman army made up of six full legions with auxiliaries and elements from up to six additional legions finally crushed it.[3]

            Without question, he could not have gotten to that point if he were not able to produce a genealogy linking him to the House of David, because that would be the number one consideration of Jews.

            Also important to point out that David had numerous wives. Solomon had seven hundred not counting concubines. All those sons carried the royal imprimatur.

            Then there's the matter of the gospels' claim. The earliest gospel was Mark, and there is much scholarly presumption of an Aramaic Mark prior to the Greek. But no genealogy. Luke has one, but it appears to be that of Mary. Only Matthew lists the paternal line, and that is Joseph's line, mind you. Jesus was a son of David only through Mary, and legally through Joseph, as the adopted son. (according to the story).

            Whether these claims would stand up in a court of law, if he were to claim any real property belonging to his famous ancestor — rather iffy.

            My friend (whom I have never met except online) Taz Delaney, originally of the Tazewells of Virginia, can be traced back to William Lyttleton in 1415, a legal scholar in the English court, and further back to the Plantagenets, Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, and ultimately Clovis. He's a wild an crazy guy, but the genealogy seems rather well attested. I just googled that out a couple of weeks ago.

            But kings have a lot of offspring. Genghis Khan is related to some 40% of Asians, I hear.

            We don't have any proof that the genealogy of Matthew or of Luke are true. Only multiple copies of the books. You can't use a copy of a book to prove the book is correct.

            Now it is easier to assert that the Matthew genealogy is accurate up to the point where it departs from Old Testament and rabbinical records, which is the point where the last king of Judah, Jehoiachim — called Jeconias in Matthew, passes the torch to Shealtiel, called Salathiel in the Greek Matthew. Wikipedia:

            Shealtiel is a significant but problematic member in the genealogies of the House of David and of the genealogy of Jesus. There is conflicting text in the Hebrew Bible as to whether Zerubbabel is the son of Shealtiel or of Shealtiel's brother Pedaiah. However, though both genealogies of Jesus list Zerubbabel as the son of Shealtiel, they differ as to Shealtiel's paternity with Matthew agreeing with 1 Chronicles that Jeconiah was Shealtiel's father, while Luke lists Shealtiel's father as an unknown man named Neri.

          • keyboardshark

            Anyone can claim anything they want. I do not have time to address everything point-by-point, but suffice to say that there are a sufficient number of prophecies concerning the Messiah, such as that He had to be born in Bethlehem Ephratah, that He would be born of a virgin, etc. etc. that if anyone other than Jesus Himself claimed to be the Messiah, he could be easily eliminated by not meeting the requirements specified in the numerous prophecies related to his coming.

          • lurl

            Don't you get dizzy running around in your circular reasoning?

          • keyboardshark

            lurl says: "Don't you get dizzy running around in your circular reasoning?"

            No, but I get tired of people accusing me of circular reasoning without actually showing me specifically where I have done so.

          • lurl

            You are working too hard to present sound information to people who have no clue.
            Next you will be accused of putting words in the bible that are not there.
            Why would they not accept your information? They have never read or studied the
            bible in depth.
            Where did you study?

          • ProudPrimate

            I was a Christian — pentacostal — for 15 years, and where I worshipped the pastor also had a 3 year bible college operation, which I completed, but mostly I just read the bible umpteen times, expanded my Greek of which I had a year in college, my Hebrew which I started studying in 8th grade with classmate Mike Goodman, who also went through all 4 years of Latin beside me.

            But I will say, this old preacher, while lacking in traditional scholarship from a secular point of view, was a truly inspired and powerful preacher, and a great-hearted man. Pastor James Roosevelt Reynolds of the Deliverance Center in Portland Maine.

            I will love him and all those people till the day I die, because they were instrumental in restoring my state of mental health after a too-far excursion into psychedelics in the 60's and 70's.

            My Christian experience was from '78 to '93 (the year I read Spinoza).

          • lurl

            Most interesting. Few here have ever studied English much less Greek and Hebrew. Latin is a must. Whatever it took to get you to where you are today is indeed, a blessing.
            Spinoza and others have had the same intense ability to turn around ones thinking and feelings.
            Certainly you will be welcomed where ever you go and will have a fulfilled life.

          • ProudPrimate

            You are very gracious and I would add erudite.

            If you would like to correspond with me, go to my website proudprimate.com and click Contact Me up in the RH corner. (zionica disallows live links — I just underlined it for clarity)

          • lurl

            Thanks PP:
            Will try to get over there tonight in-between emergencies. Wednesday's are usually slower so perhaps I will have a chance for a quick check in.

      • lurl

        You are the funniest person on this subject. Obviously you have had no exposure to anything but your lascivious, error filled 66 books called a bible.
        Try reading the findings of real scientists.

        • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

          You cannot account for science in your raving idiot's trance of atheism but your landlord – satan accounts for you.

    • msjallen

      Hope in the Bible means confidence. We have confidence that God will do as He says and He does. If one does not want to believe what the Bible says then believe the experiences of those who have faith in God and how He has provided for them. I am not talking about people who claim to be Christians for in reality they have never believed in the Lord Jesus Christ as their savior because they have not been taught correctly in their religion. Atheist have no idea what it is like to live the spiritual way of life taught in the Bible; therefore, they have no right to condemn those who do nor do believers in Jesus Christ have the right to condemn an Atheist; only pray for them to come to know the truth of the gospel.
      Acts 16:31 They said, "BELIEVE in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

      • ProudPrimate

        I am confident without Linus's security blanket. Howzzat grab ya?

        • Paul

          But, confident of what?
          That you are of so little value, have so little lasting effect, that your time on earth is totally wasted and dies with you?

          Instead, look to what the Lord can give you confidence in:

          The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid? Though a host should encamp against me, my heart shall not fear: though war should rise against me, in this will I be confident.

          They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

          Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

          So do not throw away this confident trust in the Lord. Remember the great reward it brings you! Patient endurance is what you need now, so that you will continue to do God’s will. Then you will receive all that he has promised.

          Time to "evolve", Primate – Time to repent and put your hope in the one and only King of kings and Lord of lords: Jesus Christ.

          • ProudPrimate

            But, confident of what?
            That you are of so little value, have so little lasting effect, that your time on earth is totally wasted and dies with you?

            Homer put it this way —

            οἵη περ φύλλων γενεὴ τοίη δὲ καὶ ἀνδρῶν.
            As is the generation of leaves, so is that of humanity. The wind scatters the leaves on the ground, but the live timber burgeons with leaves again in the season of spring returning. So one generation of men will grow while another dies.

            My time will not go to waste — I leave behind me a body of work, for good or ill, for truth and reality, or lies and fantasy. I choose the former in all of the above.

          • lurl

            Primate:
            BRAVO!

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            "Homer put it this way…"

            Hhahahahah there is less historical evidence for Homer and Iliad and by manifold that there is for Christ and New Testament but for a raving inconsistent atheist that is of course a "small detail"…

          • ProudPrimate

            I don't quote him as scientific fact, but as poet who expresses my view elegantly. But for a mouth with logorrhea that is a small detail.

          • lurl

            As one of the posters asked…who is Homer?
            The answer was he is on the Simpson's.
            Primate,
            You may well be wasting your time casting pearls before swine.

          • lurl

            "Lord can give you confidence in" king of kings? wasn't that a boring movie?
            Another presentation of a lot of myths, and religious dreck!

        • lurl

          99 and 100% also share your confidence in self and in responsibility for ones self and ones actions.

          • ProudPrimate

            Yep. I'm very comfortable in the empty universe by now, although it was lonely the first year.

          • lurl

            Too bad Carl Sagan is no longer alive. He was a great neighbor and felt much the same as you.
            The good ones leave to soon and look what we have left.
            Perhaps the gods need these souls, bodies or whatever.
            After-all, not much is mentioned here about reincarnation. Origen and all that sloppy stuff.

          • ProudPrimate

            the stress level on someone like Sagan is orders of magnitude higher than people like Karl Rove, because they don't care about anything but their own scams.

          • lurl

            It would seem that the whole purpose of those such as Karl Rove and the other around him are involved in so many scams and lead so many astray with their disinformation in their vile attempt to throw elections, coerce others to believe that what they state is the absolute truth.
            There is one very interesting fact about Karl Rove; he is an avowed Atheist. For those disbelievers I would advise you read his own book.

        • keyboardshark

          ProudPrimate says: "I am confident without Linus's security blanket."
          However, you need the security blanket of atheism, apparently.

          • lurl

            Your reply is sadly lacking any relevance. Think of it as A-theism.

          • keyboardshark

            He was equating a belief in God with a 'security blanket'. I was merely pointing out that his 'security blanket' is a belief that there is no God.

          • ProudPrimate

            This is merely another one of your wishful thinking beliefs.

            I don't "believe" there is no God. I merely don't see any evidence that there is.

            You don't need a pail to carry a non-existent gallon of water.

          • keyboardshark

            You most certainly do believe that there is no God. Otherwise, why to you call yourself an "atheist"? It is still a position you hold whether you want to call it a "belief' or not. There is no such thing as an entirely neutral position.

      • lurl

        The Gospel….a play on Broadway as I remember.
        You want to believe in a Broadway play…be our guest!
        Some of us don't and have little respect for those who do.

        • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

          You never been to Broadway Walmart philosopher of utmost stupidity.

        • ProudPrimate

          You're probably referring to Godspell

          • lurl

            Indeed, the opportunity for a bit of satire was just too obvious.

    • cyoder

      Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.
      G. K. Chesterton

      • ProudPrimate

        Bishop Berkeley put paid to that. To use a modern example, the fact that everybody goes when the light turns green, rather than unpredictably at various colors, proves beyond a reasonable doubt that they are all seeing the same objective reality, and more, that there IS an objective reality, meaning that NO, "FAITH" IS NOT THE TOLL BOOTH TO EXISTENCE. I refuse to pay your toll, ya ripoff artist!

        • Pastor Dwayne

          You don't have to pay the toll, Jesus's Blood did that!!!!!!!!!

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Yes, Christians say that, but saying it does not mean it is true. You have nothing but faith to support that view. And as Frietrich Nietzsche stated, "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."

          • Paul

            Christians, don't say it of our own device. We simply are re-stating what God has already said. He is what makes it true.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            No, you are repeating stories that men made up.

          • far2right

            And you haven't a clue what it says.

            The problem with atheists is that a lifetime is not sufficient for any to learn truth.

          • lurl

            What a brilliant statement. Anytime you think Atheists don't have one of the many truths and want to give credence to your position take a walk around xians. They haven't a clue. All they have
            is a line to a preacher who fills them full of more crap.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Actually, as a group, Atheists know the bible better than Christians.

            A new survey of American religious knowledge, released by the Pew Forum, which demonstrate that atheists and agnostics know more about religion than the religious do. The only religious groups comparable to atheists in general religious knowledge are Jews and Mormons. Atheists even know more about Christianity than American Christians.

            Atheists and agnostics, like Jews, are much more highly educated than the general American public, and the survey found a strong correlation between level of education and religious knowledge (among the religious as well as the nonreligious).

            Now, this does not mean we are right on our views. However, it does show that we are basing our views on researched information, not simply dismissing faith out of hand.
            http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/spirite…

          • lurl

            Paul honey,
            You are just repeating what has been told you and using the error filled 66 books to justify your position.
            Are you aware that those books were written by a bunch of Semitic individuals who were looking to control their groups and not have them wander off to Rome?
            There is no god that came and wrote any book in any way so-ever. Please recall how your 66 books filled with lies, distortions and myths were chosen to be in the irrational conglomeration of books. What about the other books that were thrown out?

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            You are epistomologically unconscious to deliver any substance in terms of your above lies and calumnies. You are like a Walmart shopper pretending buy things on Avenue Montaigne…
            What a sad clown you are.

          • ProudPrimate

            Oh, yeah? What about the angel Moroni that read the golden tablets to Joseph Smith? Answer me that, smarty!

          • lurl

            Here we go again! Xians are nothing but a bunch of people who are cannibalistic in nature.
            What throw-backs.

          • lurl

            Another reference to your Cannibalistic nature or are you one of the many Vampires?
            As a Vampire you suck the life out of your unwitting subjects.

          • ProudPrimate

            That's what Moses' wife told him — "Surely a bloody husband art thou to me."

        • lurl

          Sorry Primate;;;;;;;
          That is, RIP OFF ARTISTS! The Foundation of xian beliefs.

    • BillK

      Pride will be your undoing ultimately, laugh now, pay later. Every knee shall bow and you won't be proud nor laughing.
      God has personally proven Himself real in my life. He will not do likewise for those whose hearts are hardened against Him. God says, "the fool says in his ehart there is no God". When you are beyond the point of no return this applies: "He gave their foolish hearts over to their own lusts".

      • ProudPrimate

        Stupidity will be yours

        • Linda F.

          Pride comes before the fall, ProudPrimate. And if you continue to refuse to humble yourself now, you will experience a mighty fall. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes when that day comes.

          • ProudPrimate

            Well, lurl, I may have to stand up for the ladies to some extent, maybe not that many inches.

            The people on FOX are precarious no matter their gender. And the ladies are wiser in many ways than their male oppressors. The Iroquoi rightly accepted votes for chief only from the women, who were charged with the welfare of seven generations future in their role. Nations where women are empowered are more equitable, and population stabilizes.

            (They have more to lose!)

          • lurl

            Indeed!

        • Paul

          I am a fool, then, for Christ my God.
          You, are simply a fool for you say in your heart there is no God.

          Fear of Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

          • lurl

            Paul,
            Reciting a passage from your error filled book proves nothing.
            To be fearful is the beginning of being subservient to a non existent god but a fool to those fakirs who claim to represent the god you worship.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            More driftwood type stupidity from epistomologically unconscious.

        • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

          @prongilliterate

          Are you in a giving mood?

      • lurl

        I do not now nor ever have I had my fill of lusts!
        Thanks for the thoughts billK

    • Onemom

      Who has seen the wind?

      • lurl

        I see its actions every day and what more can one say. But there is proof that it exists. Don't believe that ask anyone in Salina,Kansas today.
        And I have heard it from a few xians who eat too many beans.

        • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

          Walmart philosopher in epistomologically unconscious spasmodic delirium.

          • ProudPrimate

            rubber stamp commenter with nothing to say, but plenty of wind — ie., a blowhard.

    • Brenda

      Faith is believing in something you can't see but know it to be true……faith in God…..we don't see Him but we see Him working miracles all around us…..yes, bad things happen in our lives but when a door closes, He opens a window…..you simply have to be open to see it……I can't imagine not believing in a higher being……who do you think created all of the beauty in the world?

      • ProudPrimate

        who do you think created all of the beauty in the world?

        When the Niagara River spills over the falls, nobody but gravity is creating the beautiful display.

        Asking the question "who created" is circular logic. It's like saying, "I know my boyfriend is telling the truth, because he told me so."

        Here's a little tale used by astrophysicist Stephen Hawking as the preface of his book, A Brief History of Time:

        A well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the center of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy. At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise." The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise standing on?" "You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's turtles all the way down!"

        • Paul

          Stephen Hawking is just a man. He can be mistaken in what he says.
          Jesus Christ is God incarnate, so that no one could condemn His words, His actions, as those of "just a man" and possibly "mistaken", He spoke only what the Father told Him, did only that which the Father told Him to do. So we could know His words were true because they came from God, the Father.

          If you won't listen to us, listen to Christ – listen to God:
          For God so loved the world, that He gave His one and only, His Son, so that whoever believes in (puts their trust, their "faith" in Him) will not perish, but have everlasting life.

          • ProudPrimate

            "Jesus Christ is God incarnate" — says who?

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            Your monkey grandpa

          • lurl

            So Paul and where did you find your substantiating statement?

          • ProudPrimate

            = crickets =

        • keyboardshark

          ProudPrimate says: "When the Niagara River spills over the falls, nobody but gravity is creating the beautiful display."

          Um, excuse me, where did the water come from? Where did the earth come from, with its gravity that pulls the water down?

          "Asking the question "who created" is circular logic. It's like saying, "I know my boyfriend is telling the truth, because he told me so."

          Huh? I think your answer must be tortured logic. How can asking a question be circular logic?

          "Circular reasoning (also known as paradoxical thinking or circular logic), is a logical fallacy in which the conclusion of an argument is assumed implicitly or explicitly in one of the premises." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning

          A question does not contain a conclusion.

          • ProudPrimate

            If you would read the quote I took from your own post you would see that that is a false statement.

            who do you think created all of the beauty in the world?

            That question contains a conclusion, and a false conclusion at that, from my view, certainly an unproven conclusion, to wit, that "somebody created &c." There's no justification for that assumption, and to base your claim on evidence that is unproven but is in fact the same claim, is what is known as circular or self-referential logic.

          • keyboardshark

            It is still does not fit the definition of circular reasoning. A question is not a statement and therefore does not include a conclusion. Maybe it would qualify as begging the question, but not circular reasoning. However, if you feel no one created all the beauty in the world, all you have to do is simply answer "no one" to the question. It's not as if you are trapped into accepting an implication that some person or some being created it.

          • ProudPrimate

            what I have written I have written [Jn 19:22]

          • keyboardshark

            Ditto.

      • lurl

        Brenda honey,
        No one created this world! Have you not heard! Open your ears to hear and your eyes to see!
        It EVOLVED! All around you there is evolution going on…don't step on it.

    • Linda F.

      What does it matter to you, ProudPrimate?

      • ProudPrimate

        As a result of your question, I read through the article, and was surprised that it's not particularly critical of atheists.

        I admit, I was still riled about the previous article that landed in my inbox with the word "atheist" in the title. That article was "No Good Atheists" by Wes Moore, in which he pontificated that there is no good of any kind in an atheist, and cited scripture as proof.

        I don't like being lied about, especially in so uncomplimentary a manner.

        But as I say, I just read this article, and confess, it's not hateful like the other. So, actually, it doesn't matter, except that the comments don't live up to that even-handedness.

        When they write bad things about me and my fellow unbelievers, it does tend to rankle.

        • Paul

          There is no good in any of us, if that "good" is of our own doing.
          Not my words – God's, the very standard of perfection.

          "There is none righteous, not even one, there is none who does good."
          "All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away."

          You can be insulted if you want. The truth often hurts.

          I remember feeling that way when my (earthly) father looked at some work I did, and declared it "not good enough". Of course, I got mad and thought in my own heart "he doesn't know what he's talking about" and "it's better than everyone else's what does he mean -not good enough!"…there was a lot more, but I was MAD. And I was 100% wrong. He was the expert, he should know. It was right that my work be evaluated, not by me or some other apprentice, but by the master himself. He was right and I was wrong, and no matter how mad I got or how much I fought it – my work was still not good enough.

          I remember when I first heard from my heavenly Father (reading the record of His Word, the Bible) , the same thing: all MY good works were FILTHY RAGS. I was mad. I couldn't believe that "good" (measured by the standards we set up for ourselves in the world) isn't good AT ALL – when evaluated by God. Yep. I was mad. And I was 100% wrong. He's the expert. He should know.

          Thankfully, the same Word of God tells us the remedy for the problem of our utter worthlessness when evaluated by God's perfect justice:
          "He (Jesus) became sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him".

          Jesus substituted Himself for our deserved punishment, and God substitutes His righteousness for our utter failings.

          He is not only a just God. He is also merciful.

          • ProudPrimate

            "Not my words – God's"

            According to that book that is thousands of years old. There are many books thousands of years old, like the Hindu Vedas, or the Chinese I Ching and Tao Teh Ching.

            They all claim to have the inside scoop. What makes your book special?

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            Yet you quote Homer in your vile ignorance even though it is many times less structurally and historically certain than what you deny of NT. Epistomological unconsciousness is most deadly and most hard to self detect in infected like you.

          • ProudPrimate

            Only because he expresses my own view elegantly, not as a scientific source.

        • Evermyrtle

          It must be wonderful that you have never made a mistake and that you will never make a mistake, That matches JESUS CHRIST but I do not think that you can truthfully say thatLL

          • ProudPrimate

            Madam, you do yourself no credit by such absurd statements as this one.

            What can you quote from any of my posts that would justify your saying that I ever inferred such a ridiculous claim?

            There is no such text in my writing. Stop playing games and write me a sincere message.

            Absolutes are your business, not mine,

        • lurl

          AH Primate!
          But you are not allowed the same courtesy. Do you think these xians read anything other than their error filled book?
          Were they to actually open a scholarly work on religion by real researchers not a bunch of religious bigots they would start dropping out of their little groups where they live in the cannibalistic ways eating the body and blood of one of their many gods.
          So many people are leaving the so-called churches that they can't pay for, keep up nor find any viable use for the church buildings. They are being foreclosed on…why can't their god stop this destroying of its house.
          Don't expect them to stand up for you or your rights. Their rights are provided by their almighty god but you don't get any 'cause you won't bow down.
          But then you are free!

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            Ranting madly will get you nowhere but to the dump site of human stupidity where you dig for treasure…

      • lurl

        Are you attacking a proud primate? If so why? Because you are not a proud primate don't worry with a lot of work you to can evolve to a higher order.

    • tbone

      There is plenty of evidence that explains the existence of God. It's in the cosmic order of His creation.

      • ProudPrimate

        Oh, you guys.

        If science can't point to a specific provable explanation, then "it has to be God".

        That reminds me of the tiresome line I get from customers at my store: "well, there's no price tag on it, so it must be free."

        No. Just because we don't know, doesn't give you the right to claim it for your pet myth, like you were planting a flag on a new continent.

        You have a shoplifter mentality when it comes to reasoned discourse.

        Not, "how do we arrive at the truth with certainty?" but "how do we get free stuff for our clubhouse?"

        • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

          You are epistemologically and ontologically unconscious and that is why you cannot know.

          • ProudPrimate

            rubber stamping again

        • keyboardshark

          ProudPrimate says: "If science can't point to a specific provable explanation, then "it has to be God".

          Not necessarily, but when science itself indicates that something is impossible, like a naturalistic beginning for the universe out of nothing, then we are forced to conclude that it must have happened supernaturally. An entirely naturalistic origin of the universe is impossible because it violates known laws of science. Ditto for a naturalistic begiining of life from non-living materials.

          • ProudPrimate

            like a naturalistic beginning for the universe out of nothing

            Much of scientific evidence today points to the idea that "there is no such thing as nothing".

            We know with certainty that zero point energy exists. Virtual particles, an electron and positron pair, for example, constantly emerge out of the nothing and disappear back into it. What we think of as "nothing" is more like a position, say, of a guitar string, which vibrates up and down. When it passes the zero line, we call it nothing. It is arrogant in the extreme to make such assumptions as, that the big bang came from nothing. someday we may understand that that is very juvenile and primitive.

            Your spiritual forebears burned Giordano Bruno at the stake because "obviously" the earth, the seat of God in Flesh, would never move. "Eppur si muove" — but it does move, Galileo is said to have whispered under his breath, after retracting his teaching under duress.

          • keyboardshark

            Then if there is no such thing as nothing, that means there must be something. And then we are right back to the very same question that haunts your naturalistic-beginnings theory: Where did the "something" come from?

    • far2right

      And your faith purports an infinite number of universes. Not only so, but an infinite number exactly like this one. Not only so again, but containing an infinite number of ProudPrimates trolling on a computer with other hominids. You believe that far more hominids have lived and died than there are electrons in the universe. In fact, more humans have lived and died in your faith than the Milky Way galaxy can contain. Your faith is in a never before seen transitional species. Your faith is in an evolutionary theory that cannot be observed and therefore can never be proven.

      One could go on and on.

      Point is, it takes heaps more blind faith to be an atheist than it ever will to be a Christian.

      And you try to ridicule religious folks about faith?

      Man, you are an open fool.

      • ProudPrimate

        "And your faith purports an infinite number of universes."

        Man, you just don't get it. You JUST DON'T GET IT. You live in this bubble with all these Christian talking points, and you can't think a thought without them. Of course, you are taught that you mustn't think a thought without them, right?

        OK, NO, my "faith" doesn't purport anything. "Faith" is no part of my life, in any area. OK? That's your hangup, not mine.

        I merely said, mathematically speaking, what science knows about the natural world allows for the possibility of multiple or unlimited universes. I never said I believed it. Only that it is mathematically plausible. But we are at the beginning of such studies, not at the end. Given that inchoate condition, it is far too early to draw any firm conclusions. Merely that it remains a very curious possibility that solves many of the questions we have about quantum mechanics, relativity, and the integration of the forces.

        A hundred years ago, i.e., within living memory, it was taken for granted that the speed of light in a vacuum was infinite, instantaneous, that the path of light in a vacuum was always a straight line, that the energy of light could be varied infinitely downward to smaller and smaller amounts on a smooth scale. No one would have believed that at a certain tiny level, light would only be available at certain fixed amounts and frequencies or wavelengths, based on the energy levels of certain electrons of certain atoms.

        At that time, before Hubble and Humason, nobody dreamed that there were multiple GALAXIES. It was assumed that our galaxy was the universe. Now it turns out there are potentially an infinite number of galaxies within our universe and multiple universes beyond that.

        And back then, silly religionists like yourself would have written me letters telling me such ideas were utter foolishness. Yet these discoveries make possible lasers, CD players, computers, semiconductors (transistors and chips), and everything, in short, that allows you to write this drivel on the World Wide Web, which, mercifully, is so simplified that even you can use it, though you revile the science it's built on.

        We still have a lot to learn.

        One of the hardest things for us to learn is how to overcome the superstition of people like you who love your fantasies more than life itself.

        When Galileo suggested that the earth was not the center of all things (ah! the ARROGANCE of the Vatican is staggering) they hauled him in before the Holy Office of Inquisition. He knew what the risks were, because Giordano Bruno had recently been burned at the stake for the same "crime". What is at issue here is the ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY on the part of the Vatican that they were right and Copernicus was wrong. It is EXACTLY THE SAME ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that fills these pages of comments by you nut-cases here. Have you given that fact one split second's thought?

        It is EXACTLY THE SAME ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY.

        That is the thing that science has enough wisdom never to engage in.

        • far2right

          Thank-you so much for so dramatically making my point. And actually, I am a Chemical Engineer by degree. So, you can stop all the straw man arguments about me. I see you as the knuckle dragger in this thread, Mr. Primate.

          Actually, it was Dr. Alan Guth who insisted that to believe in a blind quantum physical beginning of this universe, one must also necessarily accept "many" other universes. In fact, universes colliding into universes. The quantum vacuum/energy must be limitless in order to produce infinitesimal probability. The alternative is that the quantum vacuum/energy is limited. But then you will be stuck with the nasty question of "what" limited it.

          You do not even understand what you say you believe. You oppose yourself.

          You appealed to mathematics. And mathematics clearly makes at the very least 10^90 hominids since 1 million years ago, even by the most conservative assumptions. This is more than there are electrons in the universe. Actually, even 1 million years is not mathematically plausibly sufficient time for man to arise from apes. So, where are all the bodies, Mr. Primate. Instead of 32 (most of which are a scant few bones), there should be millions.

          I say again, yours is a desperate belief that requires more blind faith than a child requires to believe in God.

          Yours is a hopelessly non-nonsensical world view that openly displays defective electro/chemical synapses.

          • ProudPrimate

            Well, it's a delight to see real scientific points being made. Of course, I recognize the name of Alan Guth, originator of the Inflation hypothesis of the early cosmos. You have provided me search strings enough to make it easy to learn the current status of the points you wish to make. Many thanks for that. I'm on an all too short night between shifts. Within 48 hours I'll have time to look at it.

          • ProudPrimate

            would you be so kind as to rehearse the math for your 10^90 hominids? Just to save me the trouble of reinventing the wheel.

            Wikipedia:

            Fossilization is an exceptionally rare occurrence, because most components of formerly living things tend to decompose relatively quickly following death. In order for an organism to be fossilized, the remains normally need to be covered by sediment as soon as possible.

            How is it that your great perceptions about the many missing fossils are so little understood by science at large?

      • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

        So we accept there may be an infinite number of universes. Which is just one idea. A belief in Universes, which we know do exist. You believe in a heaven and a hell for which there is zero evidence of. Yet you believe that a belief in something which does exist is less probable than something that we do not know exists? And you have the gall to state it takes more faith to be an Atheist?

        Why should this surprise me? You believe that snakes and donkeys can talk. You believe that the sun can stop in the sky. You believe that every animal known to man was placed on an ark for over a year. You believe the absurd.

        • far2right

          You "know" other universes exist?

          And this having never seen one!

          What a great display of faith!

          Thank-you for so readily making my point.

          • ProudPrimate

            I think a fair reading of his post would be that he was saying "one or more", the idea that we speak about known things. You speak about things that are, yes, known, in nearly every culture, but belong to the set of creation myths.

        • keyboardshark

          Jeff says: "So we accept there may be an infinite number of universes. Which is just one idea. A belief in Universes, which we know do exist."

          Belief in one universe is entirely logical, because we live in it and can observe it. A belief in an infinite number of universes is an entirely different animal. Such a thing cannot be observed, nor is there any evidence that an infinite number of universes exists.

          The technique you are employing is called infinite regress:

          An infinite regress in a series of propositions arises if the truth of proposition P1 requires the support of proposition P2, the truth of proposition P2 requires the support of proposition P3, … , and the truth of proposition Pn-1 requires the support of proposition Pn and n approaches infinity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_regress

          In other words, you cannot account for how our universe could have come into existence through entirely natural processes, so you postulate that there are an infinite number of them so that the quandry get pushed out into infinity, thereby avoiding to have to answer the question. It becomes a series of question/answer dialogues that go something like this: Where did universe A come from? ANS: It was supplied material from universe B. Then where did universe B come from? ANS: It was supplied material from universe C. And so on into infinity.

          • ProudPrimate

            the first question is, are there ANY universes outside our own. Experimental data acquisition equipment is being designed to catch the only evidence that current mathematics suggests could ever transpire from one to another, that being gravity. There is a study afoot to monitor any gravity waves that might lead to observable evidence of other universes.

          • keyboardshark

            While interesting, it offers no explanation of where either the current universe, or theoretical universes outside of our own, came from.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            If the universe has always existed, then the energy and matter in the universe have always existed as well.

            As Stephen Hawking writes: "the quantum theory of gravity has opened up a new possibility, in which there would be no boundary to space-time and so there would be no need to specify the behavior at the boundary. There would be no singularities at which the laws of science broke down and no edge of space-time at which one would have to appeal to God or some new law to set the boundary conditions for space-time. One could say: "The boundary condition of the universe is that it has no boundary." The universe would be completely self-contained and not affected by anything outside itself. It would neither be created nor destroyed. It would just BE." Hawking, A Brief History, p. 136.

          • evermyrtle

            You sound so smart, but do not know that the universe has only existed since GOD created it, amazing!!.

          • lurl

            "universe has only existed since GOD created it, "
            What is this problem about the earth and the universe and its existence?
            Isn't your version of the god an example of Infinity, of Alpha and Omega? Now look closely, that is Infinity (not a car) and Omega (not a fish oil component.)
            Are you inferring that your god was sitting around one day and said to his buddies that it was bored. So he decided on that one day to create the complete universe.
            Are you too a student of Bishop Usher?

          • keyboardshark

            Energy cannot be eternal, because the useful amount of it in the universe is constantly decreasing. There would have to be an initial state (100%) to decrease from. The laws of conservation of matter and energy also argue against an eternal universe.

            Hawking's theory, while an interesting speculation, is merely an attempt to deify the universe, giving it the eternal attributes only God possesses. "Completely self-contained", "not affected by anything outside itself", " It would neither be created nor destroyed", "It would just BE". These are all attributes of God, but there is no evidence the universe has them. It would violate numerous Laws of Science.

            Even secular scientists assign an age to the universe rather than declaring it to be eternal:

            "The best current estimate of the age of the universe is 13.75 ± 0.11 billion years[1][2] (4.339 x 1017 seconds) within the Lambda-CDM concordance model.[1] The uncertainty range of 0.11 billion years has been obtained by the agreement of a number of scientific research projects, such as microwave background radiation measurements by Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe and other probes. Measurements of the cosmic background radiation give the cooling time of the universe since the Big Bang,[3] and measurements of the expansion rate of the universe can be used to calculate its approximate age by extrapolating backwards in time."
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_universe

          • lurl

            Well Sharko,
            There seems to be a great example of entropy in your cut and paste research.

          • keyboardshark

            Now you're catching on to the science behind the facts that the universe could not have created itself from nothing nor be eternal.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            An infinite number of big bangs takes care of those issues. A big bang occurs, the universe expands for a period then retracts and there is another big bang. Each new big bang resets the clock.
            http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-11-scientists-gl…
            However, Penrose and Gurzadyan have now discovered concentric circles within the CMB in which the temperature variation is much lower than expected, implying that CMB anisotropies are not completely random. The scientists think that these circles stem from the results of collisions between supermassive black holes that released huge, mostly isotropic bursts of energy. The bursts have much more energy than the normal local variations in temperature. The strange part is that the scientists calculated that some of the larger of these nearly isotropic circles must have occurred before the time of the Big Bang.

          • keyboardshark

            Even if it were true, it still does not explain where the pre-existing material and energy came from. A 'Big Bang' has to have something to bang (sorry for the highly technical language). Without pre-existing matter, there would be no material to form the planets supposedly created by a big bang, nor would there be any big bang without a source of energy. Where did the initial energy come from?

            Not only that, the black holes supposedly responsible for the cyclical 'big bangs' are still only theoretical, so we cannot be sure they even exist. There is circumstantial evidence that they do exist, but as of yet, we cannot state that it is a fact:

            "Long considered a mathematical curiosity, it was during the 1960s that theoretical work showed black holes were a generic prediction of general relativity. The discovery of neutron stars sparked interest in gravitationally collapsed compact objects as a possible astrophysical reality.

            Black holes of stellar mass are expected to form when very massive stars collapse at the end of their life cycle. Despite its invisible interior, the presence of a black hole can be inferred through its interaction with other matter and with light and other electromagnetic radiation.

            From stellar movement, the mass and location of an invisible companion object can be calculated; in a number of cases the only known object capable of meeting these criteria is a black hole. Astronomers have identified numerous stellar black hole candidates in binary systems by studying the movement of their companion stars in this way." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole

            Which also brings up the question, where did the original star that would collapse into a black hole come from? Again, the laws of matter and energy argue strongly against this particular theory, or of any naturalistic theory of origins.

  • Deddier

    I challenge a atheist to actually read the Bible – 70% of its prophecy has been fulfilled in the exact sequence of events. 30% left and we are witnessing the advent of its arrival any time now. You have been forewarned. Once we are born, we are in a march into death – there ARE 2 endings; heaven or hell. We are body, mind, spirit. A part of us goes on, E-MC2. Once is created may change its molecular form, but it goes on. You are forewarned.

    • BillK

      Very well said.
      One only needs open the eyes and the mind, then open the door of the heart and invite Christ inside. "Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your heart against Him".
      BillK

      • Chris P

        Apparently he only works in the USA. Get a clue.

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      I have read it. It is one of the reasons I am not a believer.

      There are thousands of prophecies in the bible. Are they true? Most can be shown to be completed due to one of three things. They can either be shown to be so vague that anything could used to demonstrate it occurred, or was so obvious that it had to occur at some point in time, or have been shown to have been written after the fact, retro-fitting the prophecy to an event that already occurred, or actually is wrong. In actuality, many of these so called fulfilled prophecies failed, were false or weren't prophecies at all. Many of these prophecies are so vague, they can be attributed to different events. It's also a fact that the Bible was written many years after these presumed prophecies and their "fulfillment" took place. It's also fair to mention that nowhere in the Bible will you find countries such as the United States, Russia, China, Korea, Great Britain prophesied. Oh, Christians will tell you that they are, if you know how to interpret the Bible, but that does not make it accurate.

      “Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia. No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years. And I will make the land of Egypt desolate in the midst of the countries that are desolate, and her cities among the cities that are laid waste shall be desolate forty years: and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and will disperse them through the countries. Yet thus saith the Lord God; At the end of forty years will I gather the Egyptians from the people whither they were scattered. And I will bring again the captivity of Egypt, and will cause them to return into the land of Pathros, into the land of their habitation; and they shall be there a base kingdom. It shall be the basest of the kingdoms; neither shall it exalt itself any more above the nations: for I will diminish them, that they shall no more rule over the nations.”
      —Ezekiel 29:9-15

      I think we can all agree that this never happened.

      We also have this in Ezekieln

      • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

        Ezekiel didn’t just predict that Tyre would be destroyed; he predicted it would be destroyed by King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon:
        “For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people. He shall slay with the sword thy daughters in the field: and he shall make a fort against thee, and cast a mount against thee, and lift up the buckler against thee. And he shall set engines of war against thy walls, and with his axes he shall break down thy towers. By reason of the abundance of his horses their dust shall cover thee: thy walls shall shake at the noise of the horsemen, and of the wheels, and of the chariots, when he shall enter into thy gates, as men enter into a city wherein is made a breach.”
        —Ezekiel 26:7-10

        This is a false prophecy. Nebuchadnezzar did indeed besiege Tyre for many years – but, as any history book will tell you, he failed to conquer it. (Tyre is a city on an island just offshore, with suburbs on the mainlands. Nebuchadnezzar conquered those, but failed to break into the island city.) Alexander the Great did conquer it later, but he was not the object of Ezekiel’s prophecy.
        God also said in Ezekiel 26:14, “And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon; thou shalt be built no more: for I the Lord have spoken it, saith the Lord God.”
        This is completely wrong. Tyre exists to this day, and plenty of people still live there
        Genesis 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.

        Here God tells Isaac that his descendents (Hebrews) will be as numerous as the stars. Considering the number of stars there are in the universe, that would have to be on the order of 1020 Jewish people.

        Isaiah 17:1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.
        Damascus is still inhabited today with over a million people, and hardly a ruinous heap.

        Isaiah 19:4-5 And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts. And the waters shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be wasted and dried up.
        The river mentioned here is the Nile. The Nile is still one of Egypt’s greatest natural resource.

        Isaiah 19:18 In that day shall five cities in the land of Egypt speak the language of Canaan, and swear to the LORD of hosts; one shall be called, The city of destruction.
        The Canaanite language has never been spoken in Egypt, and is now an extinct.

        Isaiah 52:1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.
        There are uncircumcised people living in Jerusalem even today.

        Ezekiel 29:10-11 Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia. No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years.
        Never in its long history has Egypt ever been uninhabited for forty years.

        A real prophecy would be along the lines of something like this:

        In the year 1776, as the future dating method will present it, 13 colonies of England, on the continent of North America, will rebel and fight a war of freedom. Against superior forces, they will prevail and name this new country The United States of America. They will forgo kings and monarchs and elect people to lead them called Presidents. The first will be named George Washington.

        Now, if someone had said that 3000 years ago, I would call them a prophet. The silly ones in the bible, are only believed by people lost in their god delusio

        • Tim

          This is a typical response of an unbeliever. You pick passages out of context and build a straw man to knock over. I could use the Bible to justify suicide by taking verses out of context, but the Bible correctly understood condemns it as self-murder.

          Contradictions are in the mind of man, not the mind of God. I've been studying the Bible for over 20 years and apparent contradictions can be explained if you are willing to do your homework. There are numerous, Godly men that have studied the Bible much longer and have come to the same conclusions.

          The Bible has thousands of prophecies, some of which have not been fulfilled yet. Many already have been fulfilled in minute detail. Over 100 specific prophecies were fulfilled in Jesus Christ's first coming, all of which were written BEFORE he came, not AFTER as you falsely claim. The odds of that are astronomical and give overwhelming evidence to the truth and accuracy of the Bible. It is also a warning that those yet unfulfilled will come to pass in God's time (not ours).

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            It takes doing mental gymnastics to believe the fables in the bible are true and that the supposed prophecies have occurred.

          • Tim

            Yes, understanding the Bible DOES require using your brain. Faith is not a leap in the dark, it is understanding and believing in something, and it isn't always something you can see with your eyes.

            It is pointless arguing that the Bible is fables, as many scholars over the centuries have researched and proven the historicity of the Bible. Many an unbeliever has set out to "prove" it all wrong, and ended up becoming a believer because the evidence for it was irrefutable.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Many a believer has become an Atheist during that search. It just depends on how long you are willing to hold onto your delusions.

          • ProudPrimate

            Bingo. That's me.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            True look of atheism: http://bit.ly/rY4jQv

          • ProudPrimate

            Oh, I get it. Nebuchadnezzar will yet conquer Tyre.

          • lurl

            Understand they are still working on it. The way the middle east is going….they may be right.
            Then we will see the wheel in the wheel way up in the middle of the air.
            Thus making George Noory correct.

          • Pastor Dwayne

            PP ,, Read the scripture again , concerning TYRE, all of it , not just picking and choosing and 1. tell the reason for Tyre's judgement ! 2. And what will the Lord actually judge? 3. this one is easy . How many years will Tyre set empty before the Lord allows people to come back and repopulate Tyre? And 4. Tying in with # 2. When you find what the Lord actually judges , you will know what will never exist again, Ezk. 26:14,26

        • ProudPrimate

          Wow! Nice work Jeff! Except did you mean 10^20? Ten to the twentieth power?

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Yes, and thank you.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Jeff ,,, Don't laugh at this, but the reason this hasn't happened to Egypt yet is , it hasn't happened yet, it is an end time event ! What triggers this event is found in Isa. 19:2 " And I will set Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight everyone against his brother, and everyone against his neighbor; city against city, nation against nation. This just happened 1-2 years ago, now to what you quoted in Ezk. 29:9-15, only you didn't quote verse 9, I will,, And the land of Egypt shall be desolate and waste ; and they shall know that I am the Lord: ( here is the reason for Egypt's destruction for forty years "" because he hath said, The river is mine, and I have made it"" then you started quoting 10-15 so I won't !
        When the King of Egypt said I made the river , I thought , you don't make rivers. So I looked up the word river in Strong's , it says ditch, canal! So what we are looking at is the Suez Canal! I will post this then continue

        • Pastor Dwayne

          Jeff,, We all know the Suez Canal was not built by Egypt, but , if I can remember , the UK, France and the U S A !
          It was to be leased from Egypt 99 years at which point would then be given to Egypt to run and control. during that time ALL nations would be able to use the Canal , including Israel! As we know Egypt took control some 12 years earlier than they were supposed to, and immediatly would not let Israel use the Canal , only other nations would be allowed to ship supplies for Israel through the Canal ! Israel has signed 2 agreements with Egypt over the Suez Canal. Now back to Isa. 19:4 And the Egyptians will I (GOD) give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, saith the Lord, the Lord of hosts , Jeff, after all the rioting of verse 2, God will set up
          a wicked ruler . Elections in Egypt are coming up or happening as we speak , I think the head of the Muslim Brotherhood will be elected, the whole group with a passion hates Israel!!! Now back to Ezk. 29: vs 6 says Egypt has been a staff of read to the house of Israel, before vs 7 happens , The new king of Egypt and leader of the Muslim Brotherhood will break Egypt's agreements with Israel

          • Pastor Dwayne

            Then in vs. 7 Israel will try to negotiate with Egypt , Egypt won't negotiate . Verse 8 says , Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold I will bring a sword upon thee, and cut off man and beast out of thee.
            The exact time frame for verse 12 to happen I'm not sure but it won't be long, either Israel will will send nuclear rockets, or possibily sp. the antichrist enforcing his peace agreement he has with Israel, when Egypt won't comply

            Once again Jeff , being Born Again is the beginning to understanding scripture !!! Also being Baptized in the Holy Ghost helps a LOT. Not being Born again, when one reads the Bible he will come to the same conclusion as you have

          • Pastor Dwayne

            Jeff ,, The land of Egypt will lay waste 40 years , which is how long it takes nuclear waste to dissipate

          • ProudPrimate

            Meet me afterwards, and I'll buy you a drink!

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            Is this how you look? http://bit.ly/rY4jQv

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Did a clown scare you as a child, Humpty?

          • Pastor Dwayne

            Well , there may be a slight problem for you, you see in Joel 3:18 describes the beginning of the 1,000 year period , then verse 19 says Egypt lies in waste!, so it may be kinda hard to buy me a drink, which I would only want a glass of water anyway, cause the Lord took drinking out of me when I was Born Again!

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            He did not say an alcoholic drink. You merely assumed that.

          • ProudPrimate

            Massive fudge factor there, Rev. "Oh, we stick in a thousand years here, and voilà! It looks pretty good."

            Reminds me of this exchange in the 1988 VP debate:

            MODERATOR: Tom Brokaw, a question for Senator Bentsen. State of the Economy

            Q. Senator Bentsen, you were a businessman before you entered the U.S. Senate. Let me offer you an inventory, if I may – lower interest rates, lower unemployment, lower inflation and arms control deal with the Soviet Union. And now two guys come through your door at your business, and say, ''We'd like you to change,'' without offering a lot of specifics. Why would you accept their deal?

            BENTSEN: You know, if you let me write $200 billion worth of hot checks every year, I could give you an illusion of prosperity too. This is an Administration that has more than doubled the national debt, and they've done that in less than eight years. They have taken this country from the No. 1 lender nation in the world to the No. 1 debtor nation in the world. And the interest on that debt next year, on this Reagan-Bush debt of the nation, is going to be $640 for every man, woman and child in America, because of this kind of a credit card mentality.

            So we go out and we try to sell our securities every week, and hope that the foreigners will buy them, and they do buy them. But every time they do, we lose some of our economic independence for the future. Now they've turned around and they've bought 10 percent of the manufacturing base of this country. They bought 20 percent of the banks. They own 46 percent of the commercial real estate in Los Angeles. They're buying America on the cheap. Now, when we have other countries that can't manage their economy down in Central and South America, we send down the American ambassador, we send down the International Monetary Fund, and we tell them what they can buy and what they can sell and how to run their economies. The ultimate irony would be to have that happen to us because foreigners finally quit buying our securities.

            I would add to what Bentsen said, "They have taken this country from the No. 1 EXPORTER OF FINISHED GOODS in the world to the No. 1 IMPORTER OF FINISHED GOODS in the world.

            Voodoo economics, voodoo eschatology.

          • lurl

            Fakir dwayne:
            Ah yes, that well known syndrome appears at last in your posts. So you were just another alcoholic looking to blame your abusive nature on everyone else but yourself. Assuming, as you do, there is the big daddy in the sky who cured you the occasion was present that allowed you to use this born again nonsense.
            You could not stand on your own two feet like a man and get over your addictive nature.
            Now you call yourself a pastor? From what school of divinity was your degree granted?

        • lurl

          You suffer from severe word pollution and who in hell uses Strong's for anything but a doorstop?
          Even Fuller cemetery says it is a worthless accumulation of words used by ultra conservatives.

          • Pastor Dwayne

            Man, the truth really hurts does,'t it, you only use Strongs for a doorstop just means you don't want to know truth, and if Fuller is in the cemetery as you state above, he doesn't know anything about Strongs. And as you state above. apparentaley sp. only the ultra conservatives want to know the truth

          • ProudPrimate

            I still find it the most useful if I can't get to a computer. Very quick, easy, quite comprehensive. I find myself pulling it off the shelf several times a year. (Compared to several times an hour for Google! LOL)

      • tbone

        Jeff,
        The very reason you are on this site continually speaks volumes of the search your heart is on. It's ok. its perfectly natural for the heart to seek after truth. When you find it in the Word of God, your heart will find rest.

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          My heart is already content. I post to help others who are not completely lost to the god delusion.

          • I'm a Believer

            No, Jeff. You post to harass those of us who believe in the existence of God! If you were interested only in, "helping others who are not completely lost to the god delusion," you would stick with your webpage. You are a bitter, hate-filled, ignorant, bigoted, angry atheist with an obsession with harassing Christians! That is why you're here!

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            There are probably many people who read these posts who have not yet made up their mind. I am merely reaching out to them. The fact that I can have some fun with the Christians on this site is just a bonus.

          • I'm a Believer

            You really are a sad, pathetic human being if you find joy and entertainment in putting other people down because they refuse to bow down at the altar of atheism.

            Go away, Jeff. Your hate-filled atheistic POV is not welcome here. Go to a website that welcomes your delusions.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Ironically, you are not in charge of anything I do.

          • lurl

            Perfect example of one of the many hypocritical xians. You wouldn't judge another would you?

        • lurl

          Jeff,
          You gotta have heart lots and lots of heart!
          If you want one I know several docs who do great heart transplants. I will see if I can expedite you on the list.

    • lurl

      Check out what E=MC2 means and what it represents and then read the life of the person who presented this mysterious finding.
      Dr. Einstein was a well know Atheist and very active in humanism.

      • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

        Indeed you are a Walmart "philosopher" hahahahahahaha

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          Invoking a successful company? As opposed to your delusions? I will take WalMart.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            Walmart is for people like you in a sense of mass pseudo intellectual product cliche which you all devour all too happily just like every parasite.

          • ProudPrimate

            This guy isn't worth replying to, 99% of the time. Just a slinger of cage detritus.

      • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

        I would say Einstein was more of a Deist. He did completely disregard a revealed god.

    • ProudPrimate

      The most extended prophecy, that supposedly written by Daniel, is very accurate part way through, then goes off the rails in its predictions about Antiochus Epiphanes' later exploits. Most scholars assume he was writing about recent history, then when he worked his way up to his own time, he got carried away and guessed at the future, and the future let him down.

    • Steve03

      Actually, atheists as a group score better on polls testing knowledge of the Bible than self-professed Christians do. They know what it says, they just don't belive it.

      • ProudPrimate

        Bingo!

    • ProudPrimate

      I studied the bible every day for 15 years, and have read it hundreds of times. I'd venture to say I've read pretty close to the entire NT in Greek and maybe 10% of the OT in Hebrew.

      When I left the faith in '93, I could tell you the chapter of virtually any quote you could muster. I have grown forgetful now, and have to look up such references. But of course now there's Google, where there was only Compuserve in those days.

  • Carol Goodwin

    LOST!

    • Chris P

      Really – please explain – I KNOW where I am going – you on the other hand cannot even come close to describing what heaven is like and how you get there.

      • Evermyrtle

        You may possibly know where you are going, if you continue to put the TRINITY down and deny JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD AND OUR SALVATION and never change your mind. That is a pretty good sign that you will sign in with Satan in Hell.

        • lurl

          Myrtle the turtle….trinity? You mean you worship the three headed snake god.

          • Evermyrtle

            Bless your little heart, you have not graduated yet, from first grade name calling!!! Don't worry, though, you will make it!!!.

          • lurl

            Have you ever seen an Atheist Myrtle the turtle?
            Don't if one would speak to you.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            More stupidity from epistomologically unconscious Walmart philosopher…

          • Evermyrtle

            No, did you?? Why do you want to know?? But I talk to JESUS , everyday!!

          • lurl

            Yes Myrtle the turtle:
            I see and speak every day to Atheists. I also speak with xians when they are not speaking in tongues.
            I also speak to a goodly number of Muslims, Buddhists, Taoists, Maoists, Shintoists, Witches, Warlocks,Shamans, Communists, Socialists, Free Thinkers, Spiritualists, and they all speak back to me. Are you not truly amazed?

            When you next speak to your jesus tell it I do hope the wounds have healed well and he can get back into causing trouble. Tell me, did it ever talk to you? One of the many who were called jesus.

    • lurl

      We will send you a map to the real life@

  • Brian

    What does an atheist look like? It looked like me before I realized what an intellectually bankrupt faith position atheism is and became a follower of Jesus Christ.

    • John

      Eye's to see and the Ear's to hear! They you will know are Gods Children!

    • Chris P

      Who is Jesus Christ? How do you "follow him". Do you renounce all your worldly goods. Get rid of that giant SUV and house and live in submission to god? I thought not – you love materialism too much.

      • ProudPrimate

        "And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him." Luke 14:16

      • EVERMYRTLE

        JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD AND YOU WILL MEET HIM AT THE END OF LIFE. HE WILL CLAIM YOU AS HIS OR HE WILL GIVE YOU TO SATAN. SATAN DOES NOT GET TO CHOOSE HE GET YOU WHETHER HE WANTS YOU OR NOT!!!.

        • lurl

          Myrtle the turtle:
          Having trouble typing using email conventions? I think I see satan behind this.

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      I find it interesting that Christians who state very emphatically that Jesus is their lord and savior and that it is necessary to obey him, often ignore what he says.

      For example, Jesus made a number of very clear statements about money and wealth in the Bible.

      (Luke 14:33) "Any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple."

      (Matthew 19:21-24) "Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

      Yet, you rarely hear of Christians who gave up everything. Why is this? Do they not believe what Jesus said? Do they think they know better?

      Why do Christians ignore the laws and rules of the Old Testament? The OT is filled with terrible, stupid rules regarding what to eat, what to wear, trimming beards, and interacting with menstruating women. Christians often say that Jesus established a New Covenant and the OT rules were done away with. But is that what Jesus said? Of course not. Jesus says, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17).

      Why do Christians still ignore them?

      There is also this gem. Mark 16:17–18 (ESV)
      17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick.

      Yet, how often do believers actually try to pick up snakes or drink deadly poison to show their faith? I realize there are a few extremists who do this, but why are not all Christians doing this?

      It is actually very simple to understand. If they followed the rules that Jesus gave, their lives would be impacted in very definite and specific negative ways. If they give up their money, they will not be able to survive. If they handled deadly snakes on a regular basis or drank poison, they would probably die. They also do not believe that some of the rules make any sense. Stop wearing clothes made from more than one fabric? Stop shaving for work? Um, no, thank you but no thanks. Christians know these rules are absurd. They know that following them will only cause them problems. They know better than Jesus about how to live their life.

      But, hypocritically, they will continue to parrot the same old tired refrain and demand that we follow Jesus. Here is an idea. Until you practice what you preach, leave the rest of us alone.

      • LAG

        First Jeff, being a Christian is not about being perfect or able to perfectly follow God's law. Thankfully we all have grace because we all screw up. It does tick me off when I see people like this Westoboro crowd or read comments on here from supposed Christians, that are the antithesis of Christian living. As far as your overall opinion, however, it is a common misunderstanding of non Christians to read scripture only at the surface. I can only speak for myself, but I found God's Word much more clear and revealing as an adult and I spent more time in the Word, praying and believing, etc. We have to remember that while His word is "God breathed" and inspired, that means God intended all of it to be written for a purpose. It was still written by people of a different time and world, but God's intention. Obviously we no longer live in a time and world where one can easily get along or raise a family with so few possessions. Does this mean God never intended for people or nations to grow and become industrialized? For societies to learn how to build better homes, clothing and cars? Of course not. Those are all blessings to be enjoyed, but NOT worshiped! This is the message in Christ's admonition to "…leave worldly possessions behind…" Our primary focus is to be on Him, not our stuff. Going back to the reference to Westoboro people and others who call themselves Christian, but don't act like it… this is WHY we all need a savior, because we're ALL sinful. All in all, God isn't the problem. God needn't be blamed. WE are the problem.

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          I never said it did. I said it is interesting that people who claim their god is all knowing do not follow what he says to do.

          • LAG

            Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they're very good at following some or most of God's word, sometimes they're very lazy about it. That's called being human and having a sinful nature, wether we're Christian or not. Take yourself for example, your belief system says you are your own God, which would mean you don't have to answer to anything else and yet, you continue to converse with folks on a faith website. Are you doing what your belief system would suggest you do? Not really.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            How many Christians do you know that have given up everything they own? Because if you claim to know any, I willl call BS and ask for proof.

          • LAG

            So you actually don't READ the replies, just respond to them? Your question clearly is an admission that you never read my first response. I don't mean this as an insult, but I have to ask, how can you possibly be taking a thoughtful look at all sides if you never educated yourself on the view you claim you've thoughtfully studied?

          • LAG

            You might also want to read about the Iranian Christian man who has refused to denounce his faith and been subsequently sentenced to death. He has given up his home, family and now his life. And yes, he CHOSE it by refusing to denounce Christ.

            OR, you could consider the millions of Christians across African and Asia who live in huts with perhaps the clothes on their backs and a pot to cook whatever they can manage to collect for food. Yet, while they have profound struggles, they have joy.

            Not to mention the thousands of American missionaries who give up VERY comfortable lives here to go and live under similar conditions in other countries to spread the gospel. My church supports one particular family and last year we were able to send them a salary of $6,000. Fortunately for them, the cost of living where they are is minimal, so they were able to purchase some equipment to print materials and a "new" used car for their family. Somehow, I don't think Jesus minds.

          • LAG

            Because I can already anticipate one of your responses (that's IF you decided to read mine this time), having joy in Christ does NOT mean we are never sad or frustrated. Of course until you know the joy of Christ, you won't be able to relate to that statement.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            I would never assume a belief in a god does not mean someone cannot be sad or frustrated. Those are common human responses.

            Yes, there are missionaries who live in ways that are less materialistic. However, that is hardly giving up everything. I will accept that the Iranian man who is willing to die is giving up anything.

          • LAG

            You still disregard my very first statement.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            That I do not read the posts? Since I am replying to comments in your posts, that obviously is not accurate. I may not address every comment you make, but that does not mean I did not read it.

          • LAG

            There was an entire response regarding God's word on leaving behind worldly treasures. Your next replies reiterated your first statement and clearly showed you had not read my response. You can disagree with it, but all you did was try to make your point once again. You didn't read it. You have done the same with others' responses. How can you have an educated dialogue if you pick out a few words and ignore the rest?

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            You stated this: First Jeff, being a Christian is not about being perfect or able to perfectly follow God's law.

            I replied with this: I never said it did. I said it is interesting that people who claim their god is all knowing do not follow what he says to do.

            Which is a response to what you said. If you have spent anytime on this site, you will see that I often give detailed responses and get into lengthy debates on many topics. However, I did not see anything needing such a response with what you provided.

          • LAG

            Here it is again: "We have to remember that while His word is "God breathed" and inspired, that means God intended all of it to be written for a purpose. It was still written by people of a different time and world, but God's intention. Obviously we no longer live in a time and world where one can easily get along or raise a family with so few possessions. Does this mean God never intended for people or nations to grow and become industrialized? For societies to learn how to build better homes, clothing and cars? Of course not. Those are all blessings to be enjoyed, but NOT worshiped! This is the message in Christ's admonition to "…leave worldly possessions behind…" Our primary focus is to be on Him, not our stuff. Going back to the reference to Westoboro people and others who call themselves Christian, but don't act like it… this is WHY we all need a savior, because we're ALL sinful. All in all, God isn't the problem. God needn't be blamed. WE are the problem." This is a commonly held translation of millions of Christians, regarding God's word on possessions and following Him.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            I am aware that there are many Christians who have this view. However, Jesus did not say to build better homes, clothing or cars. He said "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

            My point is that the reason people do not do this is because they know it will impact their life in negative ways. While they say that Jesus knows better than themselves, they live in the complete opposite of that view because they actually do know better how to live their life.

          • lurl

            LAG
            Some of us do not accept sin or evil. I accept neither. Those terms are
            used to control the flocks who stand around shouting Alleluia whilst awaiting their fleecing.

          • lurl

            "How can you have an educated dialogue if you pick out a few words and ignore the rest? "
            Now then LAG doesn't your group do exactly what you claim does not make up an educated dialogue?
            You pick and chose fragmented bits here and another there putting them together tyring to show constancy or relativity. Your group constantly quotes your scripture out of context and then applies whatever interpretation you desire for the effect you want.

          • lurl

            Just goes to show that there are a lot of crazy people who call themselves xians.

          • Guest

            You do love "ians" don't you???

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            My belief system does not say I only have to answer to myself. You have obviously never been married to make such a ludicrous statement.

          • LAG

            LOL – been married 18 years! In terms of eternity, what I said stands.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Atheism does not say I answer only to myself. It says there is no evidence that any gods exist.

          • LAG

            Thereby making yourself your own God. Yes, you might choose to treat others (including wife) with concern and respect man's laws, but in the end, you've decided your eternal fate for yourself. Only God can judge another's heart, so I don't claim to know your fate. My point is only that you've opted to handle it on your own.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            My point is that we all handle it on our own. You simply allow a belief in a myth to be a part of the way you handle it.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            Your only "point" Dixon is that you have no point at all so stop patronizing yourself and your madman's rant…

          • lurl

            Only in your belief system. Obviously not too many accept what you seem to want to preach.

          • LAG

            It is refreshing though to see an atheist admit to having a belief system, and I mean that sincerely.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            I have never met an Atheist who claims to have no belief system. That is the claims of Christians about Atheists. What we claim as a belief system is not based on stories in a book.

          • LAG

            I have. An atheist classmate of mine claims it illogical for atheists to have a "belief system", which in and of itself is an illogical stance. Of course he is also an angry black man with a huge chip on his shoulder, so my theory is, he doesn't want to consider any part of his life as similar to that of a white conservative Christian woman! Yet we all do indeed have belief systems that no amount of science can conclusively prove. From where I stand though, I ask myself what we be the point of faith then? For the record, I have another friend/classmate who is atheist and is ALWAYS nice, funny and respectful of my belief in God, so I know you're not all like the first guy. Just as not all Christians are bouncing-off-the-walls do-gooders! : )

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Jeff, I answered these verse before. now look !!! I am very sure when my answer to the land of Egypt laying waste for 40 years , happens , it won't mean a then to you

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          First, you are assuming it will actually occur, which we have no way to know for sure. But let's assume it does occur. There are many reasons why some event can occur which can seem to fulfill the "prophecies". Self fulfilling prophecy is one consideration. The people who trigger the event may want to trigger the event only to fulfill the prophecy. Second, if many different prophecies have been given, it is hardly surprising if some event happens to occur that it will be what was predicted. The law of statistics shows these very easily.

          For there to be concern, there needs to a leader who unites the world. That is not going to occur. There are too many different political, religious and economic views of the world that will never unite behind one person.

          So, no, if the event occurred, it would not concern me. Given the nut-jobs in North Korea and Iran, it almost seems improbable that an event like like can be avoided.

          • Pastor Dwayne

            Sorry Jeff, you are wrong again and I know in your mind if every Prophecy were fulfilled to a T you would find some excuse not to believe in God !!! however every prophecy to this point has been fulfilled but not according to your non- Born Again mind!!! Since you are not Born Again you will never , never understand scripture let alone prophecy

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            You cannot pull a mad dog that bites from a puddle of his vomit that he licks.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            I could care less what your rabid dog eats. I am stating that there will be no single leader that will unite the world ever in our lifetime. And that is a prophecy you can bank on.

          • Pastor Dwayne

            Boy, Jeff must be going through all his atheist bibles looking under USA 4,000 BC
            and concerning the nut jobs North Korea and Iran……… It will happen just as I stated, either Israel or the beast of the one world order , the antichrist will launch nuclear rockets into Egypt not anybody else .
            get back on your tractor and get to plowing

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            I own farmland in Ks, however, I am not the farmer. I live in CA.

            So, what do you think this magical date means?

          • Pastor Dwayne

            you tell me , what, can't you find it in the Atheist bibles, you can start by looking up the world power in 4,000 BC

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            I am not your errand boy. If you have a point to make, them make it.

          • lurl

            Sorry fakir Dwayne….
            There are NO Atheist Bibles…not one!
            You see the purpose of being an Atheist is that one is free to read anything they would like to
            peruse in their spare time.
            Why else would they be amongst the best teachers in the universe?

          • lurl

            Jeff;
            Explain immediately how many of those Atheist Bibles do you have hidden in your library?
            We must truly know. Forward that info to fakir dwayne quickly.

          • lurl

            Fakir Dwayne.
            Why don't you get a real education and then try for a real job.
            Isn't street sweeping beneath you?

          • lurl

            Jeff:
            Not only in our collective lifetimes but in anytime.
            These xians can't agree amongst themselves who has the real, true answer so how can they come up with another mythical person who will rule this or any of the other worlds.
            Reminds me of Poseidon. Wonder where I could by a used Trident?

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            I would still want to see this world leader unite the world in a single government. Outside of the Left Behind Books, it is not going to happen.

          • Pastor Dwayne

            Funny Jeff,,,,, Let me ask you, It will seem innocent to receive a mark in the palm of your hand or in your forehead if you will want to buy or sell, say your wheat or corn, to eat, or starve if you don't want the mark of the beast (in the one world wide gov't the antichrist sets up!
            By the way Jeff you say The U S A is not mentioned in the Bible . What do you think of the date of 4,000 BC
            being on one or possibly more of the Gov't buildings foundations in DC??? What do you think that means, clue the Bible has the answer.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Since there will not be a one world government occurring, it will not be an issue to worry about.

          • Pastor Dwayne

            Got bad news for you!

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            If it is about the one world government, then it is not news, it is fiction.

          • Pastor Dwayne

            NO, it is Bible, meaning it will happen even if jeff doesn't want it to .. I'm hoping and praying when you have to receive the mark of the beast you will have sense to refuse it . And yes the mark of the Beast and his one world wide Gov't is not fiction, it WILL happen!

          • Pastor Dwayne

            How ever if you do refuse the MARK , according to the Word your head will be cut off!

          • lurl

            What a wonderful example of a kind and loving xian pastor.
            Would you not want to get inline to study with this dork?
            It is believed he is a pastor only in his own mind.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            I did not say I do not want it to happen. I said that based on all the different religious, economic and political views that exist in the world, it is not going to happen. In many ways, a one world government could be a great thing. If it was established under the terms of the US Constitution, with equal rights and protections for the people of the world, it could eliminate much of the bloodshed we have seen over the centuries. If we did not need to spend billions on warfare, we could use that money to help people. But alas, we are never going to see anything like that either.

          • lurl

            Pester Dwayne:
            It is understood that in using your computer service provider and the ID they have given you you have already accepted the so-called mark of the beast.
            Otherwise you will have to accept that bad stain on your carpet as the mark of the beast!
            Forgot…you live on dirt floors don't you.

          • lurl

            How completely uneducated your are. Each post shows great lack of understanding of any form of academic study.
            For one the bible has NO answers. It is a record of Semitic people who lived under what they perceived to be great constrictions to their way of life.
            There are NO buildings in Washington D.C., that have a date of 4000BC.
            Have you been consulting with BISHOP USHER? Or is it Tim La Haye?

          • lurl

            "Left Behind Books" Now you are really going over the head of the pester JEFF!
            A series of books by a nut in San Diego(Tim LaHaye) who was a so-called minister and his poofed haired wife created a real world that would allow them to rip people off by millions of dollars.
            Now he has become one of the persecuted xians (Prosecuted as in the law caught up with them.)
            They screamed and squealed like stuck pigs when they found their illegally accumulated monies in their fun filled off shore accounts.
            Just like the TBN group the Crouch family criminals….they too have been thoroughly exposed for what they truly are and how they have defrauded all those great believers. What a shame that they too are being persecuted by the devil.

          • lurl

            Fakir dwayne:
            We don't need to understand your version of a prophecy! The Greeks had a word for prophets.
            By the by there is NOTHING in the accepted version of the one true bible that has any mention that people must be born again.
            Check it out bubba!

        • Kent Perry

          Oh I know what you mean, you can correct Jeff on just about everything he says because most of it is so unintelligible and since his motive for saying it in the first place is to get Christians to cast their pearls to swine, spinning their wheels on someone so bent on the road to hell, I would suggest you ignore anything and everything he says. But for the interest in undoing the damage he does using obfuscation and dis-information. He was spouting off something a while back about the Bible Contradictions so I have him a link to a website that is devoted to helping people with those and it covers all of them. The very next week, Jeff pointing out those very same contradictions. You see, atheist like Jeff Dixon are children of the grave whose only mission in life and since they have no life other than this, is roaming the Christian discussion boards like some arrogant knowitall, he loves to antagonize the Christian and waste their time. Jeff sees no evidence of God because he simply doesn't want to period. He says he isn't gay but he never misses an opportunity to attack anti gay Christians. He needs to grow up and be a man and quit acting like a child but,, he won't.

          So as long as you don't take him all that serious or know when to ignore him,, you'll be ok.

          As for Jeffery,,Dixon,

          Grow up

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Thank you for that mouthful of mush.

          • Paul

            I'm sure Kent is just trying to help you out. He knows that the babies and the infirm cannot handle meat, but need pablum and gruel.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            That must explain your need for fables that only the mentally infirm would accept.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            You are mentally challenged schizophrenic schizoid Dixon incapable of discerning anything that is not of immediate sensory perception.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Stop attacking gays and I will not need to point out what a bigoted loon you are on the topic, Kent. I have also stood up for the rights of Christians to speak their nonsense, the rights of women to control their bodies and the rights of minorities to have an equal spot in our society. It is called being a concerned citizen, another topic you seem to care little about.

          • lurl

            "opportunity to attack anti gay Christians."
            An Oxymoron if we have ever seen one!
            There is no such thing as an anti gay xian..there are xians who are homophobic, bigoted can't see anything beyond their snooping noses. So here we have an example of a MORON using an OXYMORON!
            An xian is to love all humankind…afterall, according to their beliefs their god created everything and that includes all homosexuals..and, as I have heard many times….god doesn't make (no) junk!
            Therefore if god made everyone in its own image then everyone one of those who make up human kind are like the god that created them. Perfect, right?

      • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

        Unless you're using Obama's bible or making this up on your own, what you tried to quote really is the following: Luk 14:33
        "Nevertheless, I must walk to day, and tomorrow, and the day following; for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem."
        I have no idea what you were after.

        • Pastor Dwayne

          Michael,,, he keeps quoting his atheist bibles that don't have a clue what they are saying , but Satan is using those Atheist bibles to keep them blinded to reality!!!

    • wasadoc

      May God bless you, Brian

    • lurl

      Weakness produces xians.

      • Evermyrtle

        How did lurl get the score of 83'. I have yet to read one sensible comment. So far they have been everyone of them obnoxious.

        • lurl

          Saying good morning to you Myrtle the Turtle is offensive and obnoxious to you.
          Perhaps you are just a bit to exposed to only one way of thought and should open your brain to a few new ideas.
          At your age it is pretty much impossible.
          So, stay just as cute as you are and keep on posting!

    • Paul

      Amen Brian.

    • Ruth

      Brain..how great for you and bless your journey!! We are all traveling and learning along the way and we are so happy to have you in the family of Christ….we all sin and fall short but er can shore each other up and reach out and share His love…hugs

  • Paul E Taylor Jr

    He would look like Obama and the rest of the liberal democrats, they are pushing us to the one world government and one world religion. No real Christian or Jew would approve of abortion

    • Chris P

      It would be NICE if there WERE one world religion because then one might think that there was one inerrant god. That's too funny. You invalidated your view of religion in one sentence. We already have system whereby nations can get together to decide how to control rogues – preferring that over dominionism and anarchy,

      So "Real" Christians and Jews require their wives to die because their God "Blessed" them with a fetus that will kill them. You people are bonkers.

      • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

        Then you better talk to your buddy Obama, because he's in favor of dominionism.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Chris,, as you know 98% of abortions come about by men and women who can't keep their britches on! But, typical of all non-believers they will go after the 2% to prove there point.
        Chris ,,, I was a Democrat til they went after the women and men who actually believe a woman should have a right to do with her body what ever she wants to , even murder! So the Democrats went this far to just get votes , Then they went after the HOMO vote. I got out of the party as soon as I saw in reality , going after votes. And yes today's repubs arn't any better!

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          2% of the men and women in the world can engage in sex with their britches on?

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      Odd that the Christians and Jews get abortions then.

      • lurl

        Do they ever!!!! Many of them are the daughters or wives of the so-called religious leaders.
        We have even had priests and other clergy walk right in and pay up front for the abortion so there would be no record!
        They don't know how records are kept.

        • Evermyrtle

          So called Christians may get abortions and maybe Jews but I can assure that Christians "DO NOT GET ABORTIONS, I MEAN WE DO NOT ASSASSINATE OUR BABIES. THAT WILL BE BREAKING THE COMMANDMENT, "THOU SHALL NOT KILL.'

          • lurl

            "Thou shall not kill" The word is translated incorrectly. There are two different words presented.
            Would you like to volunteer in our clinic for women for a week and watch carefully and see who comes in?
            The wives and daughters who are whiter than white of xian husbands and fathers many of them members of your clergy. It is they who primarily seek out abortions so they can be delivered of their sins. Just think no longer do they take those 9 month vacations to aunt Jane's and then return absolved of their responsibilities.

    • Evermyrtle

      You are correct. Problem: How on earth can we get that truth across. All the proof that is needed right there before the eyes, and so simple to understand. I believe that many of the non believers, can see it but refuse to admit the truth.

      • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

        You cannot get that "truth" across because it is not actually a truth. It is a myth, a fairy tale, that rational people discard.

        • Pastor Dwayne

          Jeff has said , myth, a fair tale so many times he actually believes it

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            I believed it before I said it the first time as well.

    • lurl

      Strange Paul E,
      I know a number of xians and jews who actually do their religious rituals and who stand right beside me in full support and participate in abortions.
      What is an abortion? It is a minor surgical removal of a conglomeration of cells the product of conception. This being said if males could become pregnant ABORTION would become a great national SACRAMENT!

  • BillK

    We were all created to live for eternity, the choice of where is ours individually. Everyone has been given basic knowledge of the Creator, but some choose to ignore that so they can live a guiltless life by ignoring that basic knowledge God has given every human. One has to be a fool to believe the nonsense we see on television that all this perfect order, complex beyond comprhension, was accidentally formed in a swamp to this incredible level of intelligence. Yet when confronted with this, some few allow themselves to be overwhelmed by it and simply cannot accept a supreme intelligence far beyond our understanding, we call that the Creator God.

    • Chris P

      Wow – what did you have for breakfast, a bowl of tripe.

    • Evermyrtle

      We shall see HIM face to face, will that be too late for billions of unbelievers who have existed over the centuries ?

    • guest

      As Scripture says, " The wicked come not to the light because their deeds are evil"
      This is why they, most of them, will not read the bible. It's much easier to deny.

  • Chris P

    Wow – so that was the worst that could be found. What a total bunch of BS. Scraping the bottom of the barrel to find dirt.

  • Mainerinexile

    The fool has said in his heart, "there is no God". The heavens declare the glory of God… Come, let us reason together; though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be white as wool… God is not a man, that he should lie.. Every knee SHALL bow and every tongue SHALL confess that Yeshua is LORD, to the glory of God, the Father…

    • lurl

      Another worshiper of that Egyptian god the three headed snakes raises its mainerinexile like ectoplasm.

      • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

        Did you have a close encounters with snakes? Surely looks like…

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          Those are people in your delusion, Humpty.

      • Evermyrtle

        Why are you so filled with spite?? Your spiteful comment never cease to amaze me. Oh, by the way my turtle is doing fine!

  • http://WWW.MEDIACRAPMATTERS.US ABUTOM

    I HAVE HEARD MANY AN ATHEIST SAY OH MY GOD. ESPECIALLY AT 30,000 FEET WITH TWO ENGINES ON FIRE.

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      How many times have you actually been in airplane with two engines on fire? Please do not ever fly on a plane with me, you must have the worse luck of anyone on the planet.

    • lurl

      How many planes have you been on that crashed? Why are you still here. How many is many?

      • Joe Anzilotti

        Allure can you knock off the voting for yourself every time you post? For crying out loud! What are you on?

        • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

          She is on her ego Joe… That is the most powerful drug there is.

      • Joe Anzilotti

        Dixon does not even resort to such juvenile behavior.

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          No, I merely tear apart your absurd views, time and time again.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            Dixon, I hope you will not follow the trend…

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            I set trends.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            Hahahahahaha among stupid maybe. I almost choked :)

    • Equusa

      There are no Atheists in fox holes!

      • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

        Of course there are. Why post something so obviously incorrect???
        http://militaryatheists.org/expaif.html

      • lurl

        Both my father and grandfather found themselves in foxholes. Not only did they live through all that mess they went in Atheists and came out Atheists along with those that converted whilst in them.

  • mesaman

    My mental picture of an atheist is that of a gnome-like creature, distorted physically and mentally, dissenting, angry, vindictive and vengeful, and one who blames every God, human, or event for their plight. Otherwise he/she/it would look like a geeky, nerdy pseudo-intellect who thinks they have individually discovered life and humanity in all its nuances and ramifications. They have themselves, and others like them, for support and have no inkling of anything greater than their own self-deception.

    • Chris P

      What a truly nasty person you are. Atheists are nothing like that. Please stop making garbage up.

      • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

        Hahhahaa I thought she forgot to mention your name there Chris…

    • lurl

      Mesaman,
      It is obvious you have not met real Atheists. You need to broaden your horizons and meet some real people who really know how to live.

  • msjallen

    Explanation of why the Bible is hated throughout the world by unbelievers:
    1.The Bible is not just one single book
    2.The Bile is a collection of 66 books – the Canon of Scripture
    3.These 66 books contain a variety of history, wisdom, poetry, prophecy, letters,
    4.These 66 books were written by 40 different authors
    5.These authors came from a variety of backgrounds – kings, prophets, shepherds, fishermen, doctors, etc.
    6.Most of these authors did not know each other; some did
    7.These 66 books were written over a period of 1500 years
    8.The 66 books were written in three different languages; Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic
    See the rest of the list next comment…

    • aceituna

      Only first 8 of list here. I would like to see the rest. So far I agree with the first 8

      • msjallen

        Do you see them now?

      • Evermyrtle

        If you know there are other points to count, why don't you name them for us? Maybe she and the rest don't know and would love very much to know.

    • lurl

      Gee I don't hate the so called bible in any of its many versions. None of them bearing any truth just fiction.
      That's okay.
      Why would one hate an inanimate object? A bit like kicking a tire.
      So take your collection of false books that are a conglomeration of weird tales and myth and enjoy it.
      Just don't put it in hotels, schools other than as literature or hospitals where too many patients try to stuff is down the toilet.

      • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

        I don't know if you are more stupid or more vulgar… Both are so intrinsic for atheism.

      • Evermyrtle

        Whhat happened to you to cause so much hate to swell in your heart. Not even nice comment. I was under the impression that everybody was nice at least part of the time. Thank goodness, it is not to late!!!

        • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

          Would you please lay it off? Ever since I pointed to something that you were talking about but had no real idea about either you are following me like a fly with your "love" and remote heart dissecting "capabilities". You have no means to do any of that and you trying to sugar "love" atheist into the faith is a vain exercise in self vanity. I know what is in your heart as I know what is in my and everyone else's too so stop implying something to yourself or others.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Humpty, you know what is in everyone's heart? You got some of that all knowing superpower working for you? Your delusion is working overtime today.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            No, cretin I actually believe in what is written and what is closed to your foolish mind.

  • msjallen

    The rest of the list…
    9.These languages are a reflection of the historical, cultural and circumstances in which each of these books were written
    10.These 66 books were written on three different continents; Africa, Asia and Europe
    11.66 books, 44 different people on three different continents these collections of books that share a common story line; the creation, the Fall, and the redemption of mankind.
    12.It makes it clear that all people have the opportunity to believe in Jesus Christ
    13.In addition to share these commonality the 66 books have no errors or contradictions
    14.There are 5,000 variants and not one contradicts the meaning of the Bible. They can be explained as scribal errors.
    15.The doctrine found within them is never contradictory but intimately connected.
    16.The entire Bible bears the mark of inspired by God.

    What does all this mean? Go to any library and find one book that matches the Bible.

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      The books of the Bible are books of testimony. Unlike treatises on mathematics and logic, where the correctness of the argument can be inferred from the written sources themselves, testimonials invariable involve a person or persons telling you something actually happened. Thus the integrity of the person giving the testimonial is of utmost importance. For that integrity is what makes us trust what he or she says. The Bible makes testimonies about things that are, by any reckoning, out of the ordinary. There are testimonials about the appearances of God to some of his prophets, about tremendous miracles such as the parting of the Red Sea and even about a man walking on water! Surely on such incredible testimonies, the integrity of the person telling the stories must be scrutinized very very closely. Remember the old maxim: extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof. As a corollary to that, we should demand that the incredible stories demand impeccable integrity on behalf of the storyteller to be believed.
      The first step towards examining the integrity of a person is, of course, to know his or her identity. It is therefore not surprising that Jewish and Christian traditions ascribed the authorships of the books in the Old Testaments to well known Jewish kings and prophets: the very characters mentioned in the Bible. To Moses, certainly the most important figure in Judaism, was attributed the authorship of the first five books of the Bible: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. In a similar trend, Joshua, Moses' successor, was supposed to have penned the book that has his name as the title. Other important figures in Jewish history, such as David and Solomon, also have books attributed to them.

      There is a similar trend in the New Testament. Most books in the New Testament had their authorship attributed to the disciples of Jesus, or at least their immediate followers. For examples the two letters of Peter were supposed to have been written by the apostle himself, while the gospel of Mark was presumed to have been written by one of Peter's followers.

      These attribution of authorship were accepted, almost without question, by Christians for close to two millennia. In the 19th century, with the use of the methods critical historical research to the books of the Bible, these traditional beliefs were slowly but relentlessly eroded. The research has reached a point where almost all the books in the Bible are no longer held to be written by the people tradition thought them to be. This valid discovery, however, is very rarely communicated to the lay public. When it is conveyed at all, it is normally preceded with attempt on behalf of the scholars to cushion the "blow" on the reader. As a result, to this day most lay Christians and (of course) all fundamentalists hold firm to these traditional attribution of authorship.

      Let us look at the problem of authorship:

      Although Jewish and Christian traditions attribute the authorship of the Pentateuch to Moses, this attribution can easily be shown to be false.
      Traditional attributions are also false for Joshua and Samuel.
      At least some of the so-called Psalm of David could easily be shown to be of later composition.
      In fact we know precious little about the author of many of the books in the Old Testament.
      The gospels were not written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
      The two epistles attributed to the apostle Peter were definitely not written by him
      Many of the epistles attributed to Paul were not written by the apostle.
      Almost all the other NT books had dubious attribution of authorship.
      http://www.rejectionofpascalswager.net/bibleanaly…

      • Kent Perry

        "

        The New Priests of Atheism ha ha ha Jeff Dixon is buckin for Pope

        “Only two things are certain: the Universe and human stupidity; and I'm not certain about the Universe”– Albert Einstein (1879-1955).

        I’m certain about the stupidity of man because the Bible tells us we are all under sin, Furthermore the Bible teaches there are fools- when a person has said in his heart there is no God (cited twice Psalm 14:1; Psalm 53:1). That’s God’s position on the so called intellectuals of scientism. Einstein is considered one of the smartest humans to have lived- he believed there is something beyond us, that we would call God, he didn’t accept a personal god but one more in line with theosophy.

        Sin not only affects our moral aptitude of our mind and reasoning, we are unable to think correctly and make accurate judgments until we have the mind of Christ. No matter how intellectually smart one can only consider his works and not the one behind His works. for that they need revelation, input beyond a human source.

        “I see a pattern, but my imagination cannot picture the maker of that pattern. I see a clock, but I cannot envision the clockmaker. The human mind is unable to conceive of the four dimensions, so how can it conceive of a God, before whom a thousand years and a thousand dimensions are as one? (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, 2000 p. 208)

        We know nothing about God, the world]at all. All our knowledge is but the knowledge of schoolchildren. Possibly we shall know a little more than we do now. but the real nature of things, that we shall never know, never. (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, p. 208)

        If he had read his own Hebrew Bible he may have started on a journey that was not limited to science but reached his heart, the spirit within man that would have given him an understanding of man and his purpose. But Einstein recognized God in Judaism as a religion concerned with life having no need of “faith,” Einstein was a humanist at heart.

        Humanist Manifesto affirms: "We can discover no divine purpose or providence for the human species. … No deity will save us; we must save ourselves."

        So humanists consider themselves masters of their own destiny who have no purpose from a creator so they create there own.

        • Kent Perry

          In our day, Atheism also known as secular Humanism has become an aggressive challenge to the church. The success of the New Atheists influence reflects something significant – that the church has done a poor job in defending truth publicly and there is a void which they have rushed to fill.

          An atheist is one that is sure in an absolute sense that no God exists. They do not arrive at their conclusion from evidence (which is not on their side) but from a hope. Which often relates to not wanting to be responsible to a greater authority because they do not like what the authority has to say about them and how they need to live. An agnostic is one who accepts the fact that he has not yet found proof of God. A dishonest agnostic says, "I don't know and I don't want to know." An honest agnostic says, "I don't know but I want to know." One cannot be an “atheist” if they are being honest with their pursuit of the facts and science.

          Atheists do not use the mind or logic to arrive at their conclusion, they use didactic reasoning that eliminates certain facts and evidence to stack the deck in their favor to satisfy their own ego’s pride of being right?

          What they do is like someone building a two story house and after the first story they stop building to state there is no second story. They purposely forfeit there pursuit of where facts lead because it will change their conclusion. They are willing to believe the record of history in nearly everything else except when it supports the Bible; then they ignore it, unwilling to continue their pursuit of knowledge of the “Holy One.” Again this proves the sinful condition of man and his severed relationship to his maker. God began to solve the human dilemma by a baby. The atheists are threatened by him today as much as Herod was back when He was born. ."http://www.letusreason.org/Apolo31.htm

          • lurl

            The church is driving its self out of business at a greater rate every year. There are so few church members in Europe that the governments have taken over the old church buildings as museums and other functional compounds.
            In the US church attendance is slowing down to a crawl. There are many churches in our area that have gone bankrupt and are being foreclosed.
            They have been turned into art galleries, restaurants, open schools and other honest uses.
            People have finally found they can survive and do so very well without any religious requirement. They don't need a god nor a fantasy life of an afterlife in order to live a good and moral life.
            They don't believe in the heart and soul of religions. They have seen heart transplants, kidney and livers too.
            They have seen multiple organ transplants and even penile transplants. They have seen cloning and parts grown in labs to replace living human parts. They don't need a god for mortality. They have what they can see, live and feel.
            The sooner religion is gone and better off we all will be. The so called believer stands in the way of human progress and evolution.

      • ProudPrimate

        excellent points, Jeff

        • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

          a. those are not his "points" but what he plagiarized from some clueless site.

          b. if these schmuck assertions are "excellent" then you working with reversed language.

    • Evermyrtle

      Many thanks msjallen!!!

    • aceituna

      Thankyou, In general I agree with you!

  • Buck

    What an athiest looks like is irrelevent , what is relevent is where they will spend eternity , or rather where the tattered remains of their soul will spend eternity .

    • lurl

      When one is an Atheist one does not consider where they will be after death. It is your concern and your belief that there is some afterlife. The Egyptians also had the same/similar beliefs. What does it get you to suppose people who don't believe your rhetoric about gods, souls and eternity?

      • Evermyrtle

        When you come face to face with the MASTER, you won't be making any sarcastic remark. Your lips will be sealed, I think!

  • Will E. Fry

    When lightning needs to strike mercilessly, this gathering of atheists would be the occasion.

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      However, this type of divine retribution coming from a god only occurs in the fables of religious texts. It never occurs in the real world when there are real people around who could witness it.

      • Disgusted

        Hi Jeff,

        What kind of life do you live? Do you do good works and are you kind and loving to others? Does it bother you when people tell you that your goodness doesn't count because you are not a Christian?

        I've never known an atheist and even if I did, he/she would be an individual, so I couldn't lump that person with everyone else who says they are atheists. I don't lump everyone who says he is a Christian together, either.

        If you are so against Christianity, then why are you here all the time? The best I can figure is this is your entertainment, but is it? You remind me of a kid who likes to prod a hornet's nest just to get the hornets to swarm out of the nest, all upset, just for the kick of it. Kids do the same with fireant nests. Then they giggle and run away to find something else to do.

        • Chris P

          Disgusted – you are total jerk telling me that my "goodness " doesn't count.

          Take your stupid religion and stuff it somewhere. We're here because you say stupid stuff like that. You think you are better than other people to the point where you ruin other people's lives.

          We are all EQUAL in this country. GET OVER IT.

          • Pastor Dwayne

            Our righteousness is as filthy rags before the Lord

        • ProudPrimate

          I can speak to that question in the last paragraph.

          I get emails from a lot of conservative websites, which started appearing after I posted a comment on Town Hall, on an article I found on Google News, which is my home page.

          I don't comment on those articles in general, or even read them. But when they make unkind remarks about me, as "No Good Atheists" by Wes Moore a couple of weeks ago, and then this one here, I admit, I feel obligated to stand up for myself, because I am a highly ethical and conscientious man. I reserve the right to be offended when someone ignorantly impugns my honor.

          Don't you?

          P.S., I salute you for your first and second paragraphs in which I take you to mean, you are not given to prejudging people by labels but you live by "by their fruits ye shall know them." I subscribe to that mind as well.

          I think Chris was mistaken in thinking you were attacking him. I hope I was right about that.

        • lurl

          You are comparing apples and oranges. If someone were to say my good works didn't count due to the fact I am an Atheist and am Anti-Xian beliefs I would laugh and walk away.
          We have such an occurrence happening now that is in the courts in Los Angeles where some so-called xian who worked at JPL on the Cassini project kept running around confronting scientist with his sound advice that they were doing the devils work etc. He was fired and not soon enough.
          He sued due to being fired because of his religion and that it caused him to harass the real scientists on the project.
          The outcome will be most interesting.

  • http://www.believeroftheway.com believeroftheway

    The one statement that has some meaning was "that we are all atheists"…only GOD can reveal HIMSELF to us and change our hearts. JESUS told us that there is not one good, not even one. Jeremiah tells us that the human heart is endlessly wicked. Joshua tells us that we have no king so we rule our own lives. We who have been blessed to see HIS LIGHT can only reach the world of the lost by loving them and understanding that we all walked in those shoes. When they insult and are belligerent we can up the temperature, or as Paul advised be full of grace. The best question to pose to an atheist is where do they think there morality comes from, if there is no moral authority. Do not debate it just leave it with them to ponder, unless they graciously want to talk about it. GOD will soften them if it is HIS will…

  • Byron

    What an Atheist like's like ? SO-WHAT??!! The Jesus in the N.T. hung on that CROSS for them to. YOU CHRISTIANS CAN BE VERY SELF-RIGHTOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • mesaman

      Indeed we can, Byron. But then we donate to worthy causes, serve our fellow human beings, ask for forgiveness, and strive to become useful to society and humankind. Can you top that?

    • guest

      Sure he hung on that cross for them. But It is required of them " by God" to respond They are not
      automatically forgiven no matter what and if they believe. They must be born again. from above.
      Jesus said, " repent and be baptised every one of you in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy ghost.
      He told Nicodemus, the premier teacher of the Pharisees, that very statement . " Ye must be born again,
      or you can in no wise enter the kingdom of God." Notice he saved the thief crucified with him who
      believed and not the other one. Not everyone who says ,Lord, Lord will be saved, but him who does the
      will of the Father.

    • Evermyrtle

      The self-righteous are the pretend Christians who like to claim the title but do not work for the title, by being humble, GOD seeking HIM and obeying HIS COMMANDMENTS

    • A. Reginald

      Wron Byron. Christians recognize that we are sinners, not righteous. Through the sacrifice of Jesus the Christ for our sins, if we accept Him as our sacrifice, God imputes (lends) us His righteousness. We, ourselves, have nothing about which to brag. All we can do is humbly accept His gift.

    • Rand

      He did. One must believe in Him though to receive His grace.

  • Ruth Walker

    Many of those educated in theology are recovering. They learned to disbelieve in seminary when studying the history and the writings. Read books by Bart D. Ehrman, for instance, "Jesus, Interrupted: Revealing the Hidden Contradictions in the Bible (And Why We Don't Know About Them)."

    It is amazing that Christians can ignore such blatant predictions of Jesus that simply did not come true (a reason many Jews didn't accept him as a messiah).
    http://www.evilbible.com/end_times.htm

    • Brenda

      What I want to know, is why do you care what we believe? We have never shoved it down your throat and you to not believe, is your choice……..but why do you try so hard to recruit others and have our symbols taken down and out of society? If you don't like it, don't look……there has to either be another agenda or you are afraid that there are too many of us that believe…..it keeps society in tact…….it keeps us civilized……..

      • Evermyrtle

        An excellent post!! I have wondered the same thing many times and you stated it so well. Thank you for speaking up. That is a problem, we do not speak up with the truth.

        • lurl

          Myrtle the old turtle:
          You can not speak up with the truth because you have no truths to speak about.

      • ProudPrimate

        As I said in a post above to Disgusted,

        I get emails from a lot of conservative websites, which started appearing after I posted a comment on Town Hall, on an article I found on Google News, which is my home page.

        I don't comment on those articles in general, or even read them. But when they make unkind remarks about me, as "No Good Atheists" by Wes Moore a couple of weeks ago, and then this one here, I admit, I feel obligated to stand up for myself, because I am a highly ethical and conscientious man. I reserve the right to be offended when someone ignorantly impugns my honor.

        I'm quite happy to tolerate freedom of religion for all, and I admire many who actually live the benign life Jesus taught.

        But far too many of the Christians today are more Pharisee than Disciple. As Dr. Cornel West says, there's a difference between prophetic Christian and Constantinian Christian.

        • lurl

          Poor Dr. west, Princeton has not been the same since he signed on.
          I recently read his most recent book and then the reviews. He was called a wild black man who should be returned to his own country.
          Funny, he was born here but his progenitors were torn from their roots to serve, most likely, a great xian slave master. Loads of these stories abound in the history of slavery in the US.
          Another review stated that he could write in English due to his white ancestors. So much for being celebrated.
          A third was why would one ever read a book authored by anyone one who would appear on the HBO Bill Maher show.

      • lurl

        Brenda,
        Your type constantly "shoves it down our throats." You want everything your way in schools, woman's choice,
        media, hospitals, government and all its policies and you do have an agenda. Basically it is one that is based on hate not love nor concern for your fellow human animal.
        You should be aware that there are NOT too many of you, in fact your number grows fewer every year and your influence is no longer accepted as rule. People just don't take you seriously any longer. If you call what xianity has given us civilized you better think again. Wars are not civilized, racism is not civilized, forced poverty is not civilized,
        discrimination is not civilized. Think if over.

        • Evermyrtle

          If you don' like them why do you read them, We only write, like you do, if you disagree, and read them anyway, tough luck, either write one of your spiteful remarks or go hide in a corner and whine or cuss or whatever you do when frustrated.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            Are you deficient on your "love" today??? You are not being "nice"… :)

    • LAG

      Many Jews didn't accept him as the messiah because they had long believed he would be their literal, earthly king. They didn't understand or accept the prophecy of the "king."

      • Steve03

        And yet Paul says "all Israel shall be saved" (Romans 11:26).

      • lurl

        LAG
        Where did you get your statement as to why Jews didn't accept anyone of the christs as being a king or saviour.
        They were always smater than the rest of the tribes.

    • Linda F.

      You're giving Christopher Baba and the rest of his hate-filled ilk a little too much credit, Ms. Walker.

      Jesus, unlike you and your fellow non-believers, knew what He was talking about. I would rather trust Him over you and Christopher Baba any day of the week.

  • mesaman

    Oy vey, meshugganah.

  • LAG

    Brothers and Sisters in Christ, is telling people they are going to hell (which is only up to God, by the way) really the best way you can share His love and grace? Faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit, not anything we are going to force into another's mind or heart. The best witness is how you live your life and how you treat others. Pray for those who deny their creator, don't berate them! An atheist thinks believers suspend their intellect. Believers (of all belief systems) think atheists suspend their conscience. A Christian, however, knows that the unbeliever suspends both! Offer your time, kindness and prayers to all around you and when you feel God is giving you the opportunity, teach with gentleness! God bless.

    • evermyrtle

      Of course, we do not know who will or will not go to heaven or hell. It is our duty to teach, to warn, to guide when possible. If we never give any helpful advice and remain blind and speechless to those who need help, we are neglecting our duty as Christians
      . I am not talking about putting ourselves above anybody or ramming anything down their throats, only kind gentle advising after talking it over with GOD. If we allow HIM to do so He will guide us in all of our counseling.

      • LAG

        I agree, but how many comments on here are patently condemning? Only God can pass such judgement. Almost always, if we take it upon ourselves to approach someone who has not asked, we end up driving them away. I will say again, the best witness is how you live your life. Several years ago I took care of a little boy whose parents were going through a terrible divorce after an affair. They were not atheists, but they weren't living in God's Word either. Out of the blue one morning, the wife asked me "how is that you and (my husband's name) are so happy?" Boom! There it was and at that moment I felt God saying "here is the moment." Let Him reveal those opportunities.

        • Evermyrtle

          Absolutely, we do need to be a living testimony. We need to speak up for HIM too but in a loving, helpful way. You simply cannot ram it down anybody's throat? it does not work that way!We need to realize that we are working with fellow human and remember that we are sinners, too.

      • lurl

        That which you post is neither kind nor gentle.

        • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

          Hahahahahahahahahaha what a hypocrite you are… hypo-under, crite-judgment.

  • Robert De Leon

    How an atheist lokks like? I don't know. That's because there is one atheist out of one million believers.
    Robert.

    • Chris P

      Ignorant

  • Linda F.

    Here's what 98% of the atheists I've encountered over the years have "looked like" : angry, hateful, bitter, cruel, heartless, joyless, ignorant, arrogant, and bigoted.

    Thank goodness for the 2% who aren't like that. :)

    • lurl

      And….that one Atheist you met was your mother…what a shame. Obviously you should have had so much more as it is obvious you are so deserving.

  • CJM2

    Look in the mirror–an atheist looks just like every other human being on earth…rather a foolish article and most posts don't even bother to answer the question. Truth is: you don't know what an atheist looks like anymore than you know who the atheist is among you unless that individual tells you they are an atheist.

    • A. Reginald

      Perhaps, CJM2, you failed to notice in the article that it was the atheists themselves sho put up the sign, with the cutout, "This is what and atheist looks like."

      • ProudPrimate

        As a persecuted minority, they were endeavoring to encourage one another to be courageous and stand up for what they believe, or rather, their right not to believe what the majority foists upon them.

    • lurl

      They should be able to determine who any Atheist is afterall, it stops them from hunting the innocent socialist.

      • Evermyrtle

        Do all atheist write spiteful comments like yours?? I don't think so, most of them are just common everyday people similar things that Christians do, getting on with their live taking care o their business..

        • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

          "spiteful" is not being "nice"…

  • Candide43130

    Keep a short list of things that followers of "reason" accept without conclusive proof (that there clearly is no deity is the foremost assumption they feel comfortable about boldly asserting as irrefutable fact, but it is not the only one) and confront them with the fact they they have their own set of "comfortable assumptions" and you have yours and you'll be perfectly willing to discuss the merits of your assumptions about the unknown as soon as they are willing to admit that those "irrefutable facts" that they and their friends accept by consensus are merely their own preferred assumptions.

  • Don

    We walk by faith not by sight!

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      Good luck with that idea during rush hour traffic.

  • Frank

    It comes down to a matter of What creates? Where do these things come from, the laws of physics, the laws of gravity, the laws of action and reaction, the laws of attraction, the laws of anything that man only observes and tries so hard to define???? God is immutable and his creations are always changing…It is amazing how people come to God and find release from those men who would cause them spiritual harm! Find GOD! You will live on through HIS Word and HIS Word in flesh was Jesus Christ!!!!!

  • Tout

    I am a Catholic. Wear a 3 cm cross over my sweater for all to see. Pray once a week(nice weather) at a Maria-statue downtown, hang this sign "Whether glad,sad or wary, pause a while, say a Hail Mary". Started alone praying while walking around 4 streets. Lady made it a beautiful procession,praying, singing, carrying big Maria-statue thru streets, to church for a Maria-crowning. Receive H.Communion always on tongue, not in hand.Make sign of cross befor meals,in restaurant, eating alone, or wih others who don't. Of course, God exists.

    • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

      I recommend 6 inch crucifix, praying three times a day just as Muslims do with whom you have much in common (Catechism 841) and public flagellation. Surely you will shave of some hundreds of years from your purgatory.

      • Joe Anzilotti

        I think the crucifix should be even larger in this case, and always over the sweater. With a nice gold chain. The public flagellation would certainly be a nice addition Despe.

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          Nothing more enjoyable than to see Christians rip into other Christians.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            Dixon you would not know how to intelligently "divide and conquer" even if your life would depend on it… It is beyond your capacity.

        • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

          You right more like 18 inches for that crucifix and 6 inch golden idol of Mary on a thick golden chain.

  • Helen

    Odd, Athiests say there is no God. They use something that is not in the US Constitution "Separation of Church and State."
    File lawsuit after lawsuit to stop prayers in the public schools, etc; They don't bother with Muslims praying openly, or any other religion. It's only Christians they target. How can they say they don't believe in God yet do everything in their power to stop us from worshiping in the name of Jesus? They get so angry they want to shout down and spew their hatred fowards anyone who prays openly and do everything to pull down crosses that honor our war dead. It's because the name of Jesus is so powerful, just the mention of His name causes these followers of satan to fear. Pray publicly in the name of Budda, or Allah, of anyother name and you won't hear a peep. BUT, say the name of Jesus and their anger turns to hate.
    That's how powerful the name of Jesus is. Well, I have news for all those who say there is no God, very soon they will come face to face with the King of King, Lord of Lord, and they will answer on Judgment Day. They can never say they didn't know. They didn't want to know.

    • lurl

      Helen,
      Do you serve your bologna on rye or wheat?

  • SEABEETOM

    There are no Atheists in FOX HOLES.

    • Steve03

      There's lots of war criminals, however. A faith that doesn't keep you from theft, torture, rape, and murder isn't worth much.

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      There are many Atheists in foxholes.
      http://www.militaryatheists.org/expaif.html

  • Scott Todd

    OK all you atheists and so-called "free thinkers," how'd that French Revolution thingy work out for you?

    • Steve03

      About as well as the 30 Years' War, the Spanish Inquisition, the Kingdom of Munster, the Battle of the Severn, the Salem witch trials, and the anti-Catholic riots of the 1830's

  • Pastor Dwayne

    It is amazing that every Atheist has read the Bible and come up with the junk they do !! Once again proving what the Bible says, if you are not born again you will not understand what it says

  • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

    If atheists would not be limited only to their natural sight which is only about 1% of known electromagnetic spectrum and could see truly they would recognize their true look which is hinted at here: http://bit.ly/rY4jQv

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      Humans have evolved to see in the electromagnetic spectrum of the world, that is true. What else would you expect to see occur?

      • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

        As usual meaningless rubbish and besides the point.

  • Bill

    Atheists remind me of rebellious teenagers. Both know right from wrong, (deep down the atheist knows that God exists) but chose to act out and do something that is not appropriate, because they can. They chose to do something inappropriate to 'prove' to themselves that others,(God) have no control over them. Why else would you pose for a picture calling yourself an atheist unless it was to prove to yourself and others that God is not controlling them and that there is no consequence for their behavior? Here's something to consider- If atheists are correct and there is no God, then what is the worst thing that can happen to me as a believer? At death everything ends and my belief dies with me- no harm, no foul. If , however, I, the believer, am correct then what happens to the atheist when they die? Eternal damnation. Why would a logical person be willing to take such a risk? Only the rebellious would take such a position, saying I am going to prove you wrong.

    • lurl

      What stupid reasoning.
      As a very logical person I chose to not believe in all your myths and fairy tales.
      Ever watch a cremation? There is nothing left but bone fragments and ash. Nothing is going anyplace and the former person is now nothing. It is over and done with.
      "The battle is oer and the victory is won." That means no more living breathing human animal. Permanently dead, going to where.

      • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

        No cabaret is better than watching a complete oaf making pronouncement about what is stupid…

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          You are right, Humpty. Watching you pronounce that some things are stupid is always fun to watch for your absurdities and delusions are priceless to behold.

      • Evermyrtle

        Why do you worry about our fairy tales? You have your own, why not just take care of them?

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      Not if you have chosen the wrong god to worship. In that case, Bill, you are in a world of trouble as well. Since a logical person such as yourself is not willing to take such a risk, you had best start praying to every god that man has thought up over the centuries, post haste.

  • Miko

    Inside the tent were tables with pamplets nand leaflets………….What the article doesn't say is the pamplets and leaflets were just plain blank white paper……Atheists believe in nothing. ( nothingness, the heart of the evil one )

  • Apollodr

    It's what Obama's son would look like.

    • lurl

      Our President Obama does not have a son. How can you be so wrong on so many counts.

      • Evermyrtle

        He is only agreeing with what Obama said, what is wrong with that , unless Obama was wrong?

  • Martin R

    all the gnostics & athiests aren't dead for sure. they still deny the Saviour of the world but worship their own idols

    • lurl

      No idols and you better check out those Gnostics and their true history.

  • ORB

    The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. [Psalms 53:1]

    Why debate with a "fool"? Seriously, Why debate with a "fool"?

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      We have no choice. Christians believe in tribal myths and the fables of the bible.