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paulryan

Was Jesus For Small Government?

What would Jesus do with the U.S. economy?

That's a matter of fierce debate among Christians — with conservatives promoting a small-government Jesus and liberals seeing Jesus as an advocate for the poor.

After the House passed its budget last month, liberal religious leaders said the Republican plan, which lowered taxes and cut services to the poor, was an affront to the Gospel — and particularly Jesus' command to care for the poor.

Not so, says Wisconsin Republican Rep. Paul Ryan, who chairs the House Budget Committee. He told Christian Broadcasting Network last week that it was his Catholic faith that helped shape the budget plan. In his view, the Catholic principle of subsidiarity suggests the government should have little role in helping the poor.

"Through our civic organizations, through our churches, through our charities — through all of our different groups where we interact with people as a community — that's how we advance the common good," Ryan said.

Continue reading at www.npr.org
 
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  • fedupwidit

    Jesus said, "The poor you have with you always" James tells us to visit the Fatherless and the widows , and Paul says "If a man will not work, neither should he eat" put them all together and find a true interpretation.

    • Sally

      Perfectly stated! Thank you.

      • Evermnyrtle

        Absolutely, not that JESUS ignored or did not care about the poor, nor that HE did not want us, to help each other. HE did say , Love thy neighbor as you love yourself," which means we do help them when they need it. But, HIS WORD also says ,"IF you won't work, you should not eat.." HE also talks about the elderly, who are not able to do a lot of work. Never did HE say anything about supporting them, completely if they sit back and refuse to get a job.

        My grandson, a college graduate, has been looking for a job for 4 years without finding anything but little one day jobs. He takes them, and earns enough that he can buy the necessities while living, as a single man, with his parents. This gives him a little little self esteem. I am just as proud of him, as I am of my College Professor son.

        • tinytim

          You have a responsible grandson, and i like that, i'm proud of him also. I hope everyone would see and read about your grandson because if he did it, these young ones can also do it, it just takes effert and want. And maybe give others self esteem as well

          • evermyrtle

            Thank you. He never gives up. He keeps on keeping on!!!

    • jean

      Jesus said if "you don't work you will not eat."

      • Steve03

        Actually, Jesus said "Give to him that asketh of thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not away." (Matthew 5:42). It was Paul who said "if any would not work, neither should he eat," but that was in relation to Christians ("For we hear that some of you are living in idleness, mere busybodies, not doing any work") who had stopped working because they believed that the end was near (2 Thessalonians 3:11-15). Paul was at the same time taking up a collection for the poor in Jerusalem as he had been asked to do by the other apostles Galatians (2:10; Acts 24:17; Romans 15:24-28; 1 Corinthians 16:3, 4; 2 Corinthians 1:15; 8-9, etc.).

    • tinytim

      Right on Redupwidit: I really don't think Jesus liked lazies either.

      • daves

        United we bargain, divided we beg.

        • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

          Huh?

    • tbone

      The problem is that if it were truly up to us and all the religious organizations to take over all the government programs for the poor and elderly, most of them would starve and be homeless. We are not as generous as we think we are (in fact, we're quite the opposite). And we church-going christians prefer to put our money into lavish buildings rather than give it to the poor. None of us contribute enough to the poor and elderly that we could eliminate social security or housing subsidies or any other program that helps the disadvantaged. Not all people are capable of working and the bible clearly states that we have an obligation to widows and children, but even that is sadly lacking and this is why the government has to help. It's a pretty pathetic statement to make about ourselves but true nonetheless. So try taking the politics and self righteousness out of your belief system and open your eyes to reality. I'm not for government programs that enable those who are able to work but refuse. I am simply stating that the government has to help those who can't help themselves. (yes, they do exist whether or not you choose to believe it.) Oh and if you do have a full time job and have not had to be concerned about layoffs, don't forget to humble yourself before the Lord and be ye thankful. I think I've made my point.

      • fedupwidit

        point taken and I appreciate your comment, but remember, King Herod, or Solomon , or David for that matter never
        had entitlements.

    • JPM

      fedupwidit, you are refering to 2 Thess.3:10, but don't forget 1John 3:16-18. If a person is capable of working and doesn't want to then, even if it is a christian brother/sister we are not to count them as enemies,but are to avoid them. However, if they can't work or unable to find work we,if we have they worlds goods then we are to help them with whatever ability we have. This, also includes the aged (honor your father and mother). We are to have compassion on those less fortunate and love not only in word but also in deed and truth.

      • fedupwidit

        My views exactly! I am well aware of the commandment in the book of James that tells us that "If we have this world's goods and seeth our brother in need and shutteth up our bowels of compassion on him, how dwelleth the love of God in us?" You are misinterpreting my statement. All I said was three important commandments and said find what fits every situation. God bless…..

  • LAG

    “Through our civic organizations, through our churches, through our charities — through all of our different groups where we interact with people as a community — that’s how we advance the common good,” Ryan said. Absolutely! Sacrificial giving on the part of the individual or family, giving a hand up, is how Christ taught us to help one another, and helps a person maintain their dignity at the same time. Force relinquishing on the part of government is called theft and violates one of God's commandments.

    • tbone

      yeah but who is sacrificing? Please tell me? I think not enough. We are americans and we hate the word sacrifice. Quit dreaming about a fantasy world. It will never happen. The american people are so conditioned to hoard our resources and call it a virtue to do so. Your faith is too tied up in your politics. The world teaches that man is essentially good and will do the right thing, but the bible says that our hearts are deceitful and full of wickedness. I wish we didn't have to rely on the government so much. The best we can hope for is to eliminate as much of the fraud and waste as possible. Yes the government has programs that are absolutely necessary. Without them, our society would collapse. Ask yourself when is the last time you paid someone else's rent for the length of time they needed it in order to recover from a financial disaster?
      The church can only help as much as the people's generosity lets it help. So don't go blaming the organization either. If the leadership is making bad fiscal decisions, then they need to be dealt with and replaced. Good luck in getting all the religious organizations together to contribute enough to eliminate just one of the government programs.

      This is why I don't tow the right wing line anymore and have chosen to be independent until I see someone on whom I can vote for in good conscious because they will do the right thing. Ron Paul may have had some crazy foreign policy ideas, but he was a man of principle. Too bad we'll never get a man like him in the oval office.

      • JPM

        At one time the churches (organized) would deal with the poverty stricken, but now government has taken over and not very well because of waste and corruption. Now we have churches (organized) that have pastors and their staff that are paid with tithes that come from people who barely have two nickles to rub together. The pastors are well fed and clothed and have fancy cars and houses and extravagant life styes. Scriptures (Maliachi 3:8) say will a man rob God? I see too much robbery coming from those in leadership positions in both government and churches (organized). Ther is also another scripture that says not to muzzle the ox as he treads out the grain, but the ox knows when to stop eating.

  • Stock

    I dont think that Jesus would have wanted to suggest that a large controlling Government-such as the one he was being persecuted by, would be the type of compassionate entity under which to put our faith for the care for the poor and infirm.

    • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

      The word says: "The government will be on His shoulders." That's fine, because no one will be complaining about it. The one we have now needs to be "blown out of the water." If OB had been doing what he's doing in the private sector, he would have been Fired outright.
      "The poor are always going to be with you…" Christ told us. He was right. We have an obligation to help, but not 'over-help' them. Too much money for them would destroy them. The Left is always complaining and griping and finger-pointing at those on the Right. Instead of doing that, they should look at what they are doing, and keep their mouths shut about it. What the Right does for the poor is nobodies business anyway.
      But remember, the Left has never been Right…

  • RANDY PITT

    Look like Rep. Paul Ryan is a lost spirit for he doesn't see that putting money into the rich pocket is not the christian thing and the catholic said what? I like to see Mr. Ryan fall to the point of being poor and then say oh i don't need help i can get myself out of this , while your helping the rich and what would Jesus do , your is taken away from you let the demon have there fun with you for at the end Jesus stands and you can tell him , i didn't help the poor.

    • LAG

      The rich have helped themselves. All We The People should be doing is making sure it isn't stolen from them. It is between them and God how much of it they choose to sacrifice for others. And many of the wealthy DO in fact give much. Biden is an exception, however.

      • Gdrake

        You need to get your facts straight the poor in the day of Jesus we're people who could not physically work you know lepers , orphans and lame and blind people. Not lazy (ie: slothfulness) who sit on their rear ends and pop out babies or take drugs or both. The poor was taken care of by communities NOT
        BIG GOV

        • Evermyrtle

          There are many who are poor in spite of all that they can do, from different reasons. But if you can make a living, even a meager as so many of us do, be content. I am happy if i can buy groceries and other necessaities, I am OK. But have you ever heard of the entire families that live on welfare generation after generation after generation, healthy
          and ably but sitting there doing nothing. Those are the ons we begrudge feeding.

      • tbone

        All our resources belong to God whether rich or poor. We have to get this selfish notion out of our heads that our money is ours alone and can be used as we wish. There is no way that thinking is compatible with helping the poor. If our attitude is I'll help them if I want, then we will continue to rely on those government programs to help the poor. So don't give me your pride-filled sanctimonious rants about the church and charitable organizations helping the poor. Most of them are doing as much as they can with the little help they get from the private sector. We are not dependable enough to stop the government from helping the poor.
        What we need in Washington is some accountability in government and people who will cut the fraud and abuse out of the system and then most of the resources will be available to whoever really needs it. We lost our way when we lost our fear of God and the consequences of our actions.
        Our attitudes stink in God's nostrils. Maybe we should take a good look at ourselves and repent until we come up with a real plan to eliminate the government spending that is necessary.

    • Jackie Barnes

      Gods word says if you don't work you don't eat, but Gods word also talks about helping your fellow man. but this Government handout mentality has made slaves out of millions of people that don't want to work, just don't stop that government check from coming in, Churches and other civic organizations could and would help people thru hard times. We now have more hard times because the Government is broke, and borrowing money just to pay its bills and the biggest bill it has is just paying those welfare checks and other handouts. there will soon be a time when the government will no longer be able to borrow and the Great depression of the 1930's would seem like a great time compared to what we have coming soon, Grocery stores empty, most people now don't have a clue how to plant a garden, no gas but no money to buy it if it is available Most people don't have a clue what is ahead!!!

      • tbone

        That scripture was meant for people who can work but refuse to do so. Make sure you quote that in context.
        And while we are offering companies tax relief to move their locations overseas, the more the government is needed to help those who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own.

        When are we ever going to get it through our thick little heads that there is no political solution to the problem because both political parties are committed to the cause of global government and the relinquishment of our national sovereignty .
        Free trade will not work if its one way. We can't continue to be the prime importers of goods while we are decreasing our exports (oh except for jobs we are doing a great job of exporting them already). Our leaders care not about the people who elect them. They follow the beat of the elitist's drums who are overturning governments around the world till they line up with the Plan. If you believe what the bible says, then you already understand the times we are living in. http://www.cuttingedge.org http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org

    • tinytim

      Randy i don't think you understood what Paul Ryan, was trying to say? I think what is going on now, spread the wealth is one thing, and helping the poor is another? keeping people on welfare is not a good thing. Especially with big goverment.

      • tbone

        Thats just one side of the story tinytim. Tell the whole truth. No we shouldn't promote ways to keep people on government subsistence, but we shouldn't cut their benefits either until they are able to find steady work. If we really knew how much the government subsidizes our economy, it would make our hair stand straight up. Farming, education, housing… on and on the list goes. A purely capitalistic system is an impossibility the the real world.

    • Wayne

      I can understand the liberal mindset that does not know God personally, when they say that it is our duty to help the poor among us. The liberal then thinks that by paying taxes and Government giving to the poor, they themselves can have a nice warm fuzzy feeling about what they have done for the poor. In fact they have given to Caesar what is Caesars', not to the poor.

      I grow a very large Garden which takes a lot of work. I give away about 60% of what I grow to Family and friends, neighbors, church, and anyone who needs or wants fresh vegetables, berries, fruits. I save the rest for my own family consumption and to preserve for the off season. I do the same with the money that I earn, however, about 40% goes to taxes (direct and indirect) and 10-15% goes to needy causes, the rest I can use for my family needs. If the Government were to take 40% of my Garden as they do my pay, I would no longer have the choice to give from my garden. It would be taken away and Government would decide for me who gets it. I might have enough to give to my elderly Mother or In-Laws, but little would be left for the poor neighbors in need or others who I gladly give to. Instead Government would decide who is worthy and who is not, and keep a large portion for their own pay and distribution cost. There IS a difference, in one I have given from the heart to those who need, in the other case, I give to the Government who requires it of me. I no longer have the joyful heart of giving, instead I begin to protect what I have for my Family and those I love. Others will have to be taken care of by Government. I would rather give Government only what it takes to protect our country, and to perform those duties spelled out in the Constitution (not birth control or abortion, etc.). When we give of our own resources directly to the needs of others, our resources are used more efficiently, we are personally more fulfilled and find joy in giving. Government taking from me for their own desired use disincentivizes me to earn more or grow a larger garden. It sickens me to be forced to give to others who can, but will not work for themselves, when I work so hard to till the soil, plant, water and weed throughout the growing season, then harvest…. or earn a paycheck.

  • Troublemaker

    The fact of the matter is that (liberals?) – they are commies, as far as I am concerned – love to take care of the poor with OTHER PEOPLES MONEY, not their's! Talk about hypocrites! They see themselves as gods always trying to play God. They are so phony that it is a joke! The "Imposter-In-Chief" and his phony wife ought to LEAD by example and quit jetting around the world , on the public dole, no less and give that money to charity! If we had a free press and not a state-run press, they'd point this out to the lame sheeple!

    • Chris

      So what do you advocate -let them die? The right wing Christians keep going on about "Right to Life' and banning abortions but then won't help people that HAVE been born.

      Ridiculous. And charity is total BS. It's poorly organised and biased as clearly demonstrated by the Catholic Church – they only help who THEY want to help.

      • LAG

        That is just ridiculous, to suggest that charities are ONLY organized by the Catholic church! My church is protestant and we give thousands to grocery programs and more. Not that the Catholic church doesn't assist people, as you would suggest. What about all the secular charities and all the individual charity that goes on. It is also fear mongering to suggest people would suddenly go hungry and die. When my parents stopped enabling my nephew, he didn't die… he finally started working! And NO ONE has ever suggested withholding welfare from those who absolutely can't work.

      • LAG

        It is a greater compassion to protect a person's dignity and give them the tools to care for themselves than it is to "keep" them all their lives. The leftists in this country advocate for misery, I'm sorry to say.

      • Bobseeks

        We are not letting them die, we are letting them take responsibility for themselves as GOD intended. By the way Chris, what do you do for the poor besides advocating stealing from others to give to them?

      • Evermyrtle

        Do you think all conservatives are rich. 90% of the those I know are conservative only oen who is rich. We all are willing to share with honest poor people.

      • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

        What Christians do or don't do is none of your business!

    • JDB Esq

      They are not "liberals," they are commies or something equally as bad. George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Patrick Henry, John Adams — they were liberals. These "progressivess" are not only un-American, they are anti-American!

    • tbone

      Quit scape-goating. You are not responsible for what others choose to believe or do. Only what you do with your life and resources. Wow. I'm really on a rampage aren't I?

    • daves

      Troublemaker. I am a liberal, make a good living, and pay about $2k in total taxes every month this year.

      If my taxes were raised by 2% like President Obama wants for the top rate, my standard of living would not be affected at all. I am not trying to steal other peoples money. I am trying to convince Americans that we are all on the same side and should take care of each other.

      • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

        Sounds like you're bragging. What you do or don't do, or have, is none of my business, nor anyone else's. Save your breath.

  • Kalev

    Yeshua came to lead us into God'd Kingdom, under His (Yeshua) rule (government of God).

    • Evermyrtle

      HE does not rule! HE only gives us directions from GOD and allows us to accept them or not as we please.. If all people lived by "HIS COMMANDMENTS." our world would running peacefully. We would not have starving people we would not have a government who legalizes the things that are 100% against HIS commandments, we would not have anti-GOD rulers, we would not have dictators running 90% of the world, which will soon be 100% of the world, unless we make some drastic changes. Only THE RETURN OF CHRIST FOR HIS PEOPLE" will save us from that.

      • Kalev

        He rules my life and He will rule God's Kingdom when He returns, that's in the Bible and what I meant to convey. Are you keeping God's Sabbath, the seventh day? If not you better begin doing that before He returns (Matt 7:21-23).

        • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

          Yes, and do not forget about slaughtering a chicken on Fridays too…

          • Kalev

            We Torah observant servants of the Most High have the chickens slaughtered and ready for Shabat dinner wirh fresh steamed veggies and a loaf of challah well before Shabat begins, that you very much for your concern. Haven't seen you here for a while and was concerned for the Nicolatians health. See you're still cyber-stalking me, you need to see your shrink 'bout that maybe?

          • Evermyrtle

            DON'T OFFEND Des…………….He likely does not eat chicken

          • Kalev

            Desp was offended long before I came on these blogs, and he's full of pork bologna.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            Hey, I like it all: chicken, pork, duck, turkey, lamb, beef, venison, fish or lobster. Just as God said Acts 10:15 nor would I imagine that I know better than Him…

          • Kalev

            You have no clue what God was showing Peter; not that certain unclean animals were now clean but it was now that the Gentile was no longer to be considered unholy by the Jewish believers in the Messiah of Israel. Your Nicolatianism, anti-nominism and Calvinism blinds you to Bible truths Messiah Yeshua reveals to the true believer through the Holy Spirit according to God's will and calling.

          • JPM

            Kalev, I believe that you should re-read the scriptures in Acts 10. Start a verse 11 and read though 15. It is obvious that God was not referring to the gentiles. Ask yourself would God instruct Peter to kill and the gentiles? Also in verse 12 He(God) specifically showed "four-footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. Enough said.

          • Kalev

            You need to read the entire chapter, in context, and you will see that my interpretation is correct. The Jewish people of that time considered it unlawfull for them to be in the company of Gentiles, see verse 28. That's what YHVH was showing Peter in the vision.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            @Kalev,

            There below is ENTIRE CHAPTER from Acts 10 in NASB. Show us ONE thing from it that would change the meaning of Acts 10:13-16 and which would make "…KILL and EAT…" and "…I have never eaten…" from verse 13 NOT about eating… You have been caught red handed in the basket of Phariseeism Kalev…

            "1 Now there was a man at Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian cohort, 2 a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, and gave many alms to the Jewish people and prayed to God continually. 3 About the ninth hour of the day he clearly saw in a vision an angel of God who had just come in and said to him, “Cornelius!” 4 And fixing his gaze on him and being much alarmed, he said, “What is it, Lord?” And he said to him, “Your prayers and alms have ascended as a memorial before God. 5 Now dispatch some men to Joppa and send for a man named Simon, who is also called Peter; 6 he is staying with a tanner named Simon, whose house is by the sea.” 7 When the angel who was speaking to him had left, he summoned two of his servants and a devout soldier of those who were his personal attendants, 8 and after he had explained everything to them, he sent them to Joppa.
            9 On the next day, as they were on their way and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray. 10 But he became hungry and was desiring to eat; but while they were making preparations, he fell into a trance; 11 and he *saw the sky opened up, and an object like a great sheet coming down, lowered by four corners to the ground, 12 and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air. 13 A voice came to him, “Get up, Peter, kill and eat!” 14 But Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean.” 15 Again a voice came to him a second time, “What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.” 16 This happened three times, and immediately the object was taken up into the sky.

            17 Now while Peter was greatly perplexed in mind as to what the vision which he had seen might be, behold, the men who had been sent by Cornelius, having asked directions for Simon’s house, appeared at the gate; 18 and calling out, they were asking whether Simon, who was also called Peter, was staying there. 19 While Peter was reflecting on the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Behold, three men are looking for you. 20 But get up, go downstairs and accompany them without misgivings, for I have sent them Myself.” 21 Peter went down to the men and said, “Behold, I am the one you are looking for; what is the reason for which you have come?” 22 They said, “Cornelius, a centurion, a righteous and God-fearing man well spoken of by the entire nation of the Jews, was divinely directed by a holy angel to send for you to come to his house and hear a message from you.” 23 So he invited them in and gave them lodging. …"

            TBC

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            CTD:

            "…And on the next day he got up and went away with them, and some of the brethren from Joppa accompanied him. 24 On the following day he entered Caesarea. Now Cornelius was waiting for them and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25 When Peter entered, Cornelius met him, and fell at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter raised him up, saying, “Stand up; I too am just a man.” 27 As he talked with him, he entered and *found many people assembled. 28 And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a man who is a Jew to associate with a foreigner or to visit him; and yet God has shown me that I should not call any man unholy or unclean. 29 That is why I came without even raising any objection when I was sent for. So I ask for what reason you have sent for me.”
            30 Cornelius said, “Four days ago to this hour, I was praying in my house during the ninth hour; and behold, a man stood before me in shining garments, 31 and he *said, ‘Cornelius, your prayer has been heard and your alms have been remembered before God. 32 Therefore send to Joppa and invite Simon, who is also called Peter, to come to you; he is staying at the house of Simon the tanner by the sea.’ 33 So I sent for you immediately, and you have been kind enough to come. Now then, we are all here present before God to hear all that you have been commanded by the Lord.”

            Gentiles Hear Good News

            34 Opening his mouth, Peter said:
            “I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, 35 but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him. 36 The word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)— 37 you yourselves know the thing which took place throughout all Judea, starting from Galilee, after the baptism which John proclaimed. 38 You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. 39 We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross. 40 God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. 42 And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead. 43 Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”

            44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” 48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. "

            Acts 10

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            Additionally here are verses from Acts 10:13-14 in Greek and I would be happy if your could also morphologicaly prove to us that they mean something else than what they say.

            10:13 και εγενετο φωνη προς αυτον αναστας πετρε θυσον και φαγε
            10:14 ο δε πετρος ειπεν μηδαμως κυριε οτι ουδεποτε εφαγον παν κοινον και ακαθαρτον

            10:13"Then a voice said to him, “Get up, Peter; slaughter and eat!”
            10:14 "But Peter said, “Certainly not, Lord, for I have never eaten anything defiled and ritually" unclean!”

            Kalev, I am absolutely positively sure that you will not be able to show that just as you will not be able to show that from the entire context of Acts 10 despite your bogus claims. Instead you will mumble something about "no clues" throw a couple of labels my way which do not understand any way. Assert your sect as true and move on as if you did something of substance and worth…

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            @JPM

            You are right and you have caught him in corsshair of sectarian butchery of the Scriptures. This is what rampant Phariseeism does to people… and "spirit" bit not The Holy Spirit.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            @Kalev,

            You might have a "spirit" o'right but it is not The Holy Spirit that is FOR SURE. You allegorise Scriptures according to your sect and throw labels in arrogant self defense not even knowing what they mean and how you misapply them. How brainwashed you are… You just want to "stick" to me like a little child because I can call out your Phariseeism form 6000 miles out.

            "A voice came to him, “Get up, Peter, kill and eat!” But Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean.” Again a voice came to him a second time, “What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.” 16 This happened three times, and immediately the object was taken up into the sky."

            ACTS 10:13-16

            So when God said "…KILL and EAT…" He really meant Gentiles??? You have got to be kidding me… So according to your sectarian butchery we would have to be killing and eating Gentiles for this context i.e. PHYSICAL CONSUMATION is the essence here which us confirmed by Peter's response of: " I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean"…

            If I have never saw a plainer case of abuse and isogesis of the Scriptures than this and you being totally deceived even about simple things like this.

          • Kalev

            Spritual ignoramus, full of demons.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            Hahhahahahaha exactly as I have called it… Zero of substance. Bogus assertion making and your complete and utter inability to substantiate it. Name calling is the only thing your sect have equipped you for… Wonder how you can sleep at night?

          • JPM

            Despeville, all we can do for someone so deceived is pray for them that they learn that the Holy Spirit is the teacher and that they learn to listen to Him. God will never contradict His written word nor His Word. We as men sometimes mis= interpet and misunderstand, that is why the Holy Spirit must give us revelation knowledge. Some can receive, others can't or refuse to. They are the unteachable and we must pray for them.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            JPM,

            You are right. Absolutely right and thanks to emphasizing this as I tend to forget about that at times. Thanks.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Now that is humorous, for you are always calling Kalev names.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            Yes, I do but in difference to him I actually substantiate my points and refer them too. Not that you would be able to notice that nor admit.

          • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

            Nuts. You probably eat rats.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            I can see that you still swing terms that you do not understand. Why am I not surprised Kalev?

          • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

            You're hung up on Legalism. If you're still putting yourself under the Law, then you are condemned by it.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            Indeed Michael, what we have clearly evidenced in Kalev and his group is nothing else but another version of Galatian heresy.

        • Evermyrtle

          Kalief, I did not put that exactly right!! HE does rule,. What HE says will eventually come to pass. He allows us to make our choices and knows ahead of time what those choices will be. We will receive the kingdom as our home because of our choices and HIS WONDERFUL LOVE AND MERCY. Whatever we do we cannot earn it except HIS LOVE, GRACE AND MERCY. HE DOES NOT RULE AND FORCE US TO MAKE CHOICES. THEY ARE OUR VERY OWN. HE does rule over the world.

    • tbone

      So true Kalev. Finally, someone who sees clearly.

    • tbone

      Why is it that Kalev is the only one seeing things from the eternal perspective? Shouldn't we all be doing that as an example to the rest of humanity? Now try to challenge that without getting in the flesh. lol.

      • Kalev

        Thank you tbone, my hearts desire is that everyone see life from the eternal perspective, I look forward to Kingdom living with my Savior and Redeemer, Yeshua reigning over the Kingdom of Heaven.

      • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

        He sees everything through his Pharisaic filters… and that is not eternal in the sense we need…

        • Kalev

          You are a hateful, contentious liar. You are following the traditions of mean and demon spirits, which is your deceitful Calvinism. I will NEVER respond to your replies again. I rebuke you in the Name of Yeshua HaMaschiach.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            You can rebuke yourself religious Pharisee and your lies and abuses of the Gospel.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            And by the way you have never "responded" to anything I have said beyond your sectarian rant.
            Here is what you cannot explain away and must cover up for yourself by name calling:

            "A voice came to him, “Get up, Peter, kill and eat!” But Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean.” Again a voice came to him a second time, “What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.” 16 This happened three times, and immediately the object was taken up into the sky."

            ACTS 10:13-16

            So when God said "…KILL and EAT…" He really meant Gentiles??? You have got to be kidding me… So according to your sectarian butchery we would have to be killing and eating Gentiles for this context i.e. PHYSICAL CONSUMATION is the essence here which us confirmed by Peter's response of: " I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean"…

            If I have never saw a plainer case of abuse and isogesis of the Scriptures than this and you being totally deceived even about simple things like this.

  • Bobseeks

    Jesus never advocated stealing from one group to help another. Scripture also speaks out against sloth, irresponsible behavior, and immorality which are the reasons most of the poor are poor in America. In fact, judged against the standards of what constitutes poverty in the rest of the world, there are actually very few truly poor people in America. I also know that the "selfish, right-wing" is a myth concocted by lieberal liars because it is the right wing that is the most charitable.

    • Chris

      So letting the poor be poor in America means letting them die young. Great Christian viewpoint. Charity is worthless and the Right are seifish. Materialistic money grabbing jerks. – as you so clearly demonstrate.

      • Evermyrtle

        YES, if they refuse to work, I will not willingly feed anybody, not even my children. I won't work and allow them to sit by and watch me, and then feed them, unless there is a accecptable reason that they cannot work..

        • tbone

          sounds simple enough to me. Get rid of the fraud and abuse in government spending and quit cutting benefits to those who are truly in need. How about the President taking fewer vacations?

        • daves

          "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' 44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ 45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ 46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life”.

      • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

        Talk about jerks, go look in the mirror.

    • tbone

      its not stealing, its giving to Caesar the things that are Caesar's

      • tbone

        oops…. did I just quote scripture again? I hope that didn't offend any of you. lol.

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          Allow me to quote some scripture as well.

          In the book of Ezekiel 4:12-13 the Lord said:
          QUOTE
          "And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. And the LORD said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, whither I will drive them."

          2 Kings 18:27 says:
          QUOTE
          "But Rabshakeh said unto them, Hath my master sent me to thy master, and to thee, to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?

          • JPM

            Jeff, you might try not to take scripture out of context, but also give the reasons God decided to do these things.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Since Christians cannot even agree on what the verses mean, your comment is meaningless.

        • Gordon

          I agree with you tbone regarding abusive spending of the government and excess vacations. However, I am sorry to disappoint you also in that I don't think God intended for government to declare dominion over everything you own then claim the phrase render under Caesar. Second, if you will examine your records you will find that in the 80's decade – you know – that era of Regan's cut taxes – charitable giving increased 55%. We didn't need a government to do it for us, instead we had the money to be able to do it ourselves. Third – to quote the Bible – it says God loves a cheerful giver. Since when did you walk away from your Outgo taxes either feeling cheerful or like a giver. No instead you felt raped by an abusive government that doesn't know how to use what it has. So, if it doesn't know how to use what it has, why should we be forced to give more. And finally, to use scripture again, may I remind you of Christ's parable of the 5 talents. Before departing, to one was given 5, to the second 2 and to the third 1. That doesn't sound like equal distribution to me. But, he did provide equal opportunity. Upon return, The two that had doubled their talents he praised. The one which squandered his opportunity was reprimanded and had it taken from him and given to the one who doubled it from 5 to 10 talents. And yes, I do believe in charity, but, forced government confiscation is not charity, it is robbery.

    • tbone

      oh really bob seeks? Is that why the poor people are poor? Wow. And do you have statistics on that? What about the foreclosure crisis that is wreaking havoc in our country? Did they all of the sudden get lazy too? Maybe they don't deserve a house in the first place.

      I want statistics that back up your claims or you will just be spitting in the wind as far as I am concerned.

      • Bobseeks

        The foreclosure crisis is the result of selfish people borrowing up to the max to get the biggest home the couldn't really afford. Poverty is the result of sloth, sexual immorality, failing to take advantage of the education offered, drug and alcohol addiction, and just plain stupidity. I think rather than t-bone your moniker should be meathead.

      • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

        Bobbiesocks does not ever provide any supporting evidence for you foam at the mouth rants. He merely tosses out his standard refrain of poor, lazy and morally deviant.

        • Bobseeks

          You claim do be a devotee of "reason" yet you constantly resort to lying because you have no case to make. Every point I made is provable but your lack of the ability to acknowledge truth proves that you are not capable of reason.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Not lying at all when I say you do not support your rants. You simply throw out comments.

      • Bobseeks

        And yes, meathead, many did not deserve a house or at least not the house they bought.

  • Chris

    Would Jesus carry a gun? Would Jesus shoot small animals for fun? Would Jesus drive a giant SUV and live in a McMansion? Would Jesus hate Muslims and gays?

    • Bobseeks

      Wow Chris, you are even more insane than usual. As the "inventor" of the hard drive (as you claim), what kind of house do you live in, what kind of car do you drive, and how much do you give to the poor?

      • Evermyrtle

        Chris, are you trYing to get some kind of recognition for the most insane question? I must agree,'you are good." I WOULD VOTE FOR YOU ANY DAY FOR THAT!"

        • Chris

          What's insane about the question? They are just as stupid as the question about small government since there is no Jesus to ask.

          • Evermyrtle

            It is much easier to tell what is good or sensible, about your comments. Answer: nothing, but they are blood pressure raisers, BUT ONLY IF WE CARE.

      • Chris

        Ones that are energy efficient. How much do I give to the poor? – I don't give to the poor directly – I'm not like the religious clowns that give to people standing on street corners.

        • Bobseeks

          Dilbert: In other words, like all lieberals, you are all talk and no action when it comes to the poor. Hypocrite! Also, energy efficient is a meaningless term – you could live in a 10,000 square foot energy efficient home and still leave a bigger carbon footprint than mine.

      • Chris

        Actually the government where I live is religious and right wing and they REQUIRE you to build houses that have a minimum size.

        • Bobseeks

          Dilbert: In other words, you live in a fancy area with the rest of the elitists who want to keep the poor at arms length. And, by the way, you are a liar because there is no religious government where you live because there is no religious government in America. Just come out and admit it dilbert, like all lieberals you are a liar and a hypocrite.

        • Evermyrtle

          Religious is correct Islam is a religion I understand!!! I have heard about that "Right Wing" thing!!

          • Kalev

            Islam is an ideology as opposed toa true religion, Nazism was a similar ideology as Islam is, as a matter of fact they are parallel ideologies..

          • Bobseeks

            Indeed, muslims helped the nazis during WWII because they thought that hitler would exterminate the Jews.

          • Evermyrtle

            Religion: 1. Belief in GOD or gods
            2. Worship of GOD or gods
            3. A particular system of religious belief and worship, as in The Christian or Moslem religion
            4. A matter of conscious

            The word religion does not mean a lot within itself.

      • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

        Invented the Hard Drive? Probably the only thing he invented was the cattle drive.

      • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

        Guess what. Chris didn't invent the 'hard-drive.' That's just another liberal lie, from a liberal who's lied.

    • LAG

      Uh, helloooo? Lets see, I don't carry a gun (but I own one), I don't shoot small (as opposed to large?) animals for fun, I don't drive a giant SUV or live in a "McMansion" (what is that, by the way? Golden arches door knocker or something?). I don't hate Muslims and I don't hate gays (in fact I give a ride to church every week to a gay friend who I love very much). HOWEVER, I also DON'T cruelly enable anyone who is able to work either. Do I give to programs that help supplement groceries for struggling families? Yes. Do I agree with broad entitlement programs that pay all the bills for folks that claim their opportunities have been stolen while they walk around with cell phones and bling? No!

    • LAG

      Chris, I thought your type was against stereotyping and intolerance and FOR helping the downtrodden?? Why then would you make such broad assumptions AND advocate for keeping poor people poor? No amount of entitlement ever got someone closer to the American Dream.

      • Chris

        SO why do veterans think THEY are entitled?

        • LAG

          Not sure what that has to do with the conversation, but what kind of veteran are you speaking of? One like my father, who knew he'd be receiving a pension for his time served, worked until retirement as a civilian and now receives his $400/mo pension in addition to other retirement benefits? Or are you speaking of a veteran who is mentally and emotionally disturbed (this means disabled, which no one argues isn't in need of help), or are you talking about the few able-bodied veterans who refuse to work, like anyone else who refuses to work? No one who is able should be having all their bills paid by the rest of us.

          • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

            It has nothing to do with the conversation. Now he's grasping a 'straws.'

          • Evermyrtle

            AMEN Lag, I would like to add a few words,

            And risked their lives every day, and millions have died before becoming a veteran. Many veterans did not serve in battle but millions did but they all went through extensive training to be ready to serve in "BATTLE" should the need become a necessity. WHAT DEAR CHRIS, HAVE YOU DONE, TO RISK YOUR LIFE FOR YOUR COUNTRY?????????? You should at least go through the training before griping about something that you know nothing about. SITTING BACK AND SNIVVELING DOES NOT COUNT

          • Evermyrtle

            Sorry Michael and Lag, fire in my eye blinded me!!!! Could see the name very well, again I am sorry!!!

        • LAG

          So why are you opposed to truly helping people up Chris?

    • JDB Esq

      Guns and SUVs are not morally evil. Jesus has already spoken out against homosexual practioners and Baal worshippers. You need to find out what Jesus said before you can question what He might, or might not do.

      • Chris

        Owning a gun is morally evil in my opinion because in most cases it is bought in the expectation that you will attempt to kill something by an inappropriate means without a trial. .

        • Bobseeks

          Your opinion means nothing here dilbert because we all know that you are a selfish, lying, hypocrite who lives in a fancy neighborhood while demanding that everyone else help those "poor" he is too selfish and lazy to help himself. Also, you sound like some PETA whack job on top of all that.

          • evermyrtle

            Took the words right out of my mouth, oops! away from my writing hand!

        • LAG

          That doesn't even make sense Chris. Some people live in shady areas, some women live alone, some families live in very rural locations where it can take several minutes for a police response. Are you actually saying that if any of these people's homes are invaded and their lives or children's lives are threatened, they have no right to protect themselves? That shooting the criminal makes the victim the criminal first? WHAT?! Do you honestly believe guns are the only deadly tools out there. Maybe we should ban knives, ligatures, poisons and hands.

        • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

          Let's see. Now I'm supposed to give the neighbor's cat a 'trial.' That's a laugh. Telling lies is morally evil too Chris. In fact, I don't think you are an engineer. The only engineer you'd be is of something that goes 'Toot!'

        • Evermyrtle

          Your opinion only counts for yourself. We have our opinions, too, and do not try force them on anybody else.

          By the way do you eat any kind of meat? Most of us will not eat meat that dies all by itself, like being sick before it dies. Do you eat it without it being "KILLED"? I don't !!!

    • msjallen

      It might surprise some people to discover that our Savior was a proponent of self-defense:
      Matthew 24:43 …if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
      Luke 11:21 When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own homestead, his possessions are undisturbed.
      (This last passage teaches that the better armed we are, the less likely someone is to steal from us or harm us and our families.)
      Jesus commanded His disciples to purchase weapons:
      Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them … he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
      Note that Jesus did not tell His disciples to register their swords with the government.

      • Kalev

        What are you trying to do? That'll give the athiests fits everytime. Very good insight though!

      • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

        Not a surprise at all but which self-defense? Aikido? Karate? Or Kendo?

        • Chris

          Nothing wrong with those. You cannot kill somebody on the other side of the wall by taking a shower.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            You practice Aikido or Karate in the shower? Hmm interesting. I am having hard time seeing it. Surely cannot bring myself to see Kendo that way…

        • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

          No silly. Use of a deadly weapon.

      • JPM

        Good answer.

  • Evermyrtle

    JESUS CHRIST did not speak only to the wealthy, HIS commandments were for the poor as well as for the rest of the people. It seems the government wants to separate, to a entirely separate group, sort like a non-people group. We should all be "JUST CHILDREN OF GOD," and handle whatever comes to us and rely of GOD to supply all things we need. I have been poor all of my life but never despaired, just kept plugging, away.

  • Vladimir

    So what happened before the Democrats initiated the welfare state? Did people starve? Of course not. We helped each other as Christ urged us. Since the Democrats initated the welfare state, we say, " let the government do it". That's not charity, that's the LACK of charity. America is less charitible now than 80 years ago thanks to Democrats. We have also been given generations of welfare dependents.

    Additional collateral damage to the advent of government welfare is that we are on the road to Greece type economic destruction. No expert predicts we can continue as we are and expect this country to survive. Mr. Obama wants to fundamentally change this country and if he succeeds our children won't enjoy what we did growing up.

    • Kalev

      The Republicans allowed the Democrats to establish to social welfare state by not standing their ground as far as the Constitution goes. If Obama is re-elected the Constitution will cease to exist as our rule of law, and things won't look mucg better under a President Romney – a right wing progressive, which is actually more dangerous.

      • Gordon

        I hear and find merit in both your statements. However, I would also like to add to what Vladimir said. Government welfare creates an attitude of never ending entitlement not only because of the fact that government has already taken so much from us taxpayers that when we come to hard time we feel like they owe it to us. But, also because the government serves as an inanimate object. People on welfare are receiving from an undefined, unknown because government has taken claim to it. But, if that aid comes from the next door neighbor, family members, or some other well known source, it serves as an inspiration to find a way to end receiving those handouts. In other words, government welfare breeds complacency and dependence upon handouts whereas charity from friends breeds guilt and desire to once again be independent.

        • Kalev

          I wholeheartedly agree with you assessment. The Republiicans have done as much damage in this area over the last 50 years as the Democrats have by not standing on Constitutional principles was my point.

  • BYRON

    Frankly, I really dont know and dont care if Jesus was for big or small Government.

  • Mike

    Why would Jesus condone a transition to a Marxist form of government which is where we are heading? Marxist ideology can not stand in the face of religious moral authority and all Marxist regimes seek to destroy religion which the Obama administration , true to form,obviously feels compelled to do.

    • Chris

      You made that up. We are not headed for a Marxist government. You are just sensationalizing.

      • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

        I wouldn't bet on that one.

  • Marie

    The only Government there was suppose to ever be was Gods Government and the laws of God. 1 Samuel 8: 5-7. The elders of Israel had asked for a king and it displeased samuel, but God told him to hearken to the voice of the people in all they say. God also said…they have not rejected you [Samuel ], but me. In verse 9, God told Samuel to tell the people what type of king they will have [ God warned the people what was going to happen ]. We as a people of this country, as well as other free countries are a part of Israel…we are of God. We screwed up and now we're reaping what we sowed. But, the hope is still in Jesus Christ. God can still help us with the mess we're in by praying about it …praying for those in authority to do what is right for all of us.

    • Vladimir

      There is a big difference between and king and a president with a limited term. Until the King returns, we can make do with presidents only if the voters aren't fooled again. If Obama is re-elected, we are cooked.

      • Marie

        A king in the eyes of God was a ruler as too, a president, but He did allow it and is also letting us see what its like with out him as our king. At the same time, He's willing to help us, but we have to ask with a heart that has been changed within us as well. And yes, we will have to make due for now and pray with all our little hearts that Obama is out. Cooked is but a small word in comparison to what's going to happen if he is re-elected. I also am praying that all those dead people, those that take money to vote, etc, etc…someone will stop the fraud and we will have an honest election.

      • Chris

        No you aren't. Romney is a clown who believes that Native Americans came from Israel. The Book of Mormon is completely fabricated.

      • tinytim

        God chose the king and people chose the president and about if Obama is re-elected, we are cooked. You can say that again. God help us

      • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

        It's gonna' be OB that gets 'cooked,' quite literally.

    • aceituna

      In Romans we read that God gives us the government to take care of those that break the law. We are to respect the sward of the government which falls upon evil doers and live such a life that we need not fear this sward. As we read in Judges, Samuel, and Kings in the Old Testament we realize that God allows the kind of government that people deserve. When the Israelites strayed away from God he brought trouble, but when they repented he sent a leader to bring them out of the trouble. I believe that is still happening today. I sincerely believe that President Raegan was one of our God chosen deliverers. Yet government is not infallible. When government leaders demanded obedience from the Christians against God's will, the apostles declared. "we ought to obey God rather than man." In our country we have elected government officials. We need to make choices that show that we wish to obey God rather than man. We can still trust that "all things work together for good for those that love God, that are called according to his purpose."

    • Kalev

      YHVH bless you Marie, you are Israeli, I can tell that by your post, peace and blessings be with you.

    • tinytim

      Very well said Marie: 2nd Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land

      • Marie

        Tinytim, how very right you are. Thank you.

  • toddyo

    One thing Stephen Schneck of Catholic U doesn't get about Catholic principles: Pope Benedict XVIs encyclical Caritas in veritate (Charity in truth) states: "The principle of subsidiarity must remain closely linked to the principle of solidarity and vice versa, since the former without the latter gives way to social privatism, while the latter without the former gives way to paternalist social assistance that is demeaning to those in need. Paul Ryan gets it.

    As for Jesus being in favor of small business, consider the parable of the master who leaves certain talents with several of his servants, expecting them to be good stewards, consider Matthew 25:14 30. Funding received (capitalism), stewardship tested (free enterprise) – results measured and rewarded.

    As for Jesus and socialism, we were treated with Acts 4:33-35 to make us think that collectivism works. Read Acts 5 and see how it failed.

    Bring it on dear "progressive" – especially academics who birthed PC!

  • Davidmgus

    This dilemma is classic and is succinctly articulated by the following: John Kenneth Galbraith…"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."…or; Willis Player…"A liberal is a person who's personal interests aren't at stake at the moment"

    • Esteban Cafe

      Sir, Mssrs Galbraith and Player were disposed to using other people's money in their supposed charitable and collectivist schemes. Both failed because they tied themselves to the incorrect principle of compelling others to provide for those who can provide for themselves, creating a dependent underclass (C.F., multigenerational welfare receipients).

      It is this underclass that led the way in voting in your current president; it is such principles that increase the very selfishness as you quote, but completely miss.

      • Davidmgus

        You have made my point, Esteban…Liberals will seek to not use their own money choosing instead to use other people's money (ie…the taxpayer), while conservatives will seek to find a way to not spend any of their own, including what they've paid into the system through their taxes.

  • Esteban Cafe

    Rend unto Ceaser what is Ceasers; unto God what is God's. I think God wants us to follow His commandments & principles so that we can be more like Him.

    • tinytim

      AMEN

  • Evermyrtle

    Of course I believe in charity, I just don't believe in feeding slackers who refuse to work. By the way, who feeds you, after you give everything to these loafers.

    No, I am not religious, I am a Christian.

  • della

    Malachi tells us to give our tithes to God (the first tenth) and He will pour out so much that we won't have room to store it. People refuse to give God what belongs to Him when everything we have is His. Therefore, they suffer lack. When you give your tithes to God then the churches can help those who need help. Give and it shall be given to you. Paul Ryan is correct in his statements.

    • JPM

      Only if the churches cease to be run as a business and those in charge cease from taking the majority for themselves. God states that we are the church (individually) and made without hands the church is not a building. When two or more are gathered together He is there with us.

    • msjallen

      Actually, the Mosaic Law is not the Christian way of life; like tithing for spiritual giving, it was a system of Jewish income tax. Anything that is mandated to the unbeliever is not the Christian way of life. In the OT these were tithes related to government:
      •10% for maintenance of the Priests: Lev 27:30-33, Num 18:21 & 24
      •A tithe for the feasts and sacrifices: Dt 12:18 & 13:21-24
      •Tax for the poor of the land: Dt 14:28-29
      Malachi 3:10 Bring the whole tithe (taxes) into the treasury, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this," says the LORD of hosts, "if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows.

      • myth buster

        The greedy are always lacking, because they are obsessed with money. No matter how much they have, it is never enough, and what they have is destroying them. Reaping what they have sown, many greedy people lose their savings chasing riches

  • NavyBugchaser

    I think one thing one must consider, whether Jesus is for small or big government, the point to consider is whether or not Jesus is for the welfare state where people don't work but expect to be given everything they want and at the expense of those who do work.

    • NavyBugchaser

      The Apostle Paul stated in one of his letters, to the Corinthian Church I believe, that if one does not work, then they should not eat. Another spot he said that those who don't protect and take care of their families are worse than infidels. Even those who could not work because of infirmity or being crippled did things to try to get money, even if it was begging. No one sat around expecting Caesar to give them government handouts. Nor did Caesar demand that those who made money had to have taxes taken out of their income so that the no loads could have the same things that those who worked did. More than likely, the no loads would be thrown in a hole in the ground and stay there until they were willing to get off their backsides and work. The early Church did combined their goods so that no one lacked anything, but it was not something forced on them, but something they did out of their own willingness. And maybe for the exception of those who were widows or orphans, the likelihood was that everyone pulled their own weight as much as possible to get it done.

    • tinytim

      I think if you don't work you don't eat, and if anyone wants a free ride their lazy. Expecting everything and getting what they want at someone else's expense is wrong

      • evermyrtle

        you are 100% correct, just as long as you are able to work,casting pretend ailments.

  • http://twitter.com/lambsev11 @lambsev11

    Jesus came to bring the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. This Kingdom stands apart from every other kingdom or government the earth has ever seen. The King is Jesus and the rule of the Kingdom is Love, for God is Love! What we do here and now can only be judged against the teaching of Jesus in the Bible. Justice is something only God knows well enough to get right every time. So lets do what we can to do the right thing, and then have mercy on each other before God. Micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good, and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

  • http://www.OnlyWay.com David McElroy

    Jesus Christ admonished the disciples for desiring to be "chiefest" among the brethren. Read Mark 10:42-45 about Jesus saying "…so shall it not be among you…" regarding seeking to rule others. Christ would have us to behave as strong, charitable, loving servants of our fellow human beings. Government structures of all kinds have never modeled such behavior, catering instead to the manipulative ego, greed, contempt and deceit of other people. Yes, Christ would be advocating for small government. God's Ten Commandments are enough for righteous society. Requiring any more is tyranny, and any less than what God ordained as law is unrestrained licentiousness.

    • evermyrtle

      You are right, seeking to be top dog is an aim for a non Christian. We should be ready to work together and to give each other all the support they need.

  • Don

    If Ryan was such a great Christian, he would have read what Jesus said, that the rich will not enter in heaven, but the meek would have a better chance to .

    • Vladimir

      Jesus never said that the rich will not enter in heaven.

      • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

        He certainly implied it. "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

        • Gordon

          You had better make sure you understand that verse in it's complete. It has nothing to do with class warfare that is being waged today by our supposed "uniting" president. What it does refer to, however, is that a man is not to become so in love with his wealth that he loses sight of God. In other words, is God his God or are possessions his God? It has to do with how you value and use your wealth not how much wealth you have.

  • Right Turn Only

    The problem with govenrment confiscating wealth to give the poor. Is that government has taken on the role of God as th provider and redeemer.

    Now we have cities fining/ticketing groups for trying to help the poor. Requiring them to have PERMIT to feed them.

  • JPM

    The first thing we need to do is to staighten out our tax system. When someone making millions is taxed less than someone making a few thousand there is something wrong. People complain about the rich being over taxed and state that the ones making a few thousand aren't paying enough need to realise that this can be cured if the employers just paid their employees a little more then they would pay more in taxes. Yes , the owners of companies risked more at the start and do supply jobs for others, but their take home pay is way out of purpotion and the tax laws are slanted in their favor.

  • JPM

    I don't know who asked the questions about veterans, but I believe it was Chris. The vetreans all paid into SS and should receive its benefits like everyone else. As far as retirement is concerned most receive very little in conparision to most civilian and civil servant jobs while putting their lives at risk for 20 or more years let alone those who are disabled.

  • JoJo

    "Liberals seeing Jesus as an advocate for the poor." Uh-huh. Liberals also like to tell our kids that Jesus was homeless and that is why he was born in a stable….I guess they "forget" that the only reason Mary and Joesph traveled from their home to Bethlehem was to PAY TAXES.

    • aceituna

      Matthew plainly states that the babe was laid in a manger BECAUSE THERE WAS NO ROOM in the inn.