State of the Bible 2012 - ZIONICA.com

drjim1

So, between having had a well known Christian leader tell my devout public school teacher friend he should quit his job because he couldn't serve God and the public school and Mr. Moore telling us we should pull our kids out of public school i guess we are just ceding the public education system to Satan. So much for the church triumphant.

Evermyrtlelinder

There is a terrible, Satan introduced fact that he does not want us to know about. Several new translations of the Bible is really poisonous, misrepresented versions of the Bible have been printed and been distributed and we need to be very careful that we avoid them. One of the latest leaves out entirely, the name of JESUS CHRIST. One of the names substituted is, "The Anointed One. I believe this is to fool people into thinking it is not bad as it seems. IF IT IS NOT THE WORD OF GOD, THEN IT IS NOT THE WORD OF GOD. PLEASE BE CAREFUL!!!!

http://www.rethinkingao.com Mike Beidler

Evermyrtlelinder,

The title "Christ" (Greek for "Messiah") means, literally, "Annointed One." So, what's the problem?
- http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
  
  Problem is that she is massively clueless about most issues she wants to discuss. Zeal is great but without facts zeal is dangerous.
  - Evermyrtle
    
    Thanks, for your kind vote,Des………….I will refrain from ever answering any of your posts in such a vicious way. I will do as I have done previously, I will state my adverse opinion and "STOP THERE" We both need to remember that our opinion is not always the best, and quite possible not correct, and remember that all of us are imperfect.
    
    And Mike I really do know what "THE ANOINTED ONE MEANS, YES BEFORE YOU STATED IT. YOU WILL FIND MY "POINT" BELOW!!
    
    The point is that, or so I've heard and read that "THE ANOINTED ONE, is the only name given that version declares HIM as the CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD. Of course I am negligent in the fact that I have not read that version for myself, but do trust the ones who wrote that and said it.. "THE MAIN POINT" IN MY POST IS THE FACT THAT THERE ARE SEVERAL VERSIONS OUT THERE AND MORE COMING OUT THAT DOES DISTORT THE TRUE WORD, AND WANT PEOPLE TO BE AWARE OF THAT, AND TO BE CAREFUL WHEN YOU DECIDE TO PURCHASE ONE OF THEM.
    
    I do apologize for upsetting both of you. That was not intention!!!
    - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
      
      The issue is not your perception or definition of "kindness" but of facts and your ignorance of it as pointed by Mike… Would you please observe, recognize and follow on the difference?
    - Evermyrtle
      
      I really did not realize that Christians could be so self righteous or so vicious. Now people who say they are Christians are another thing altogether. The meaning of "JESUS CHRIST" IS "PURE LOVE' HE died for me the most horrendous death possible. Here you are thinking you are representing my SAVIOR, attacking me as if I am the enemy. JESUS said in HIS WORD that would happen. I will never call you ignorant even when I do not agree with you. GOD gave me a right to be wrong sometime just as HE gives you that right. He says that we are all sinners and that we can be told by the fruit we bear. HE won't be able to say that I called you by any name that he would not approve of. I do realize that I am not always correct. Did you know that your are not always correct?? Until you do you cannot be a servant of HIS!!
      
      Oh, I was about to forget, perception!! Do you think your perception is perfect? Do you know up beside my SAVIOR………………., I still will not call you ignorant BUT your are just as ignorant as I am. Until you do realize this fact, you cannot serve HIM as you should.
    - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
      
      When are you going to discard this manipulation and stop discussing people and start to discuss the arguments they are making…?
    - Evermyrtle
      
      I have no plans to change except to draw closer to my SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST. I believe in standing on what I believe from reading HIS WORD and listening great evangelists. When do you plan to shed your vicious self righteous attitude?? Oh yes, and your judging and name calling??
    - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
      
      I told you discuss arguments and NOT PEOPLE. That is a very elemental thing in honesty and it should result from what you hope in above. You are specializing in misrepresenting people and ad hominems only. I did not call you any names and charge of "judging" is incredibly bogus and irrational. Are you not judgmental by accusing me of "judging"? Yes you do so stop acting like a hypocrite. Your ignorance is enough.
    - Evermyrtle
      
      I told you discuss arguments and NOT PEOPLE (the comment before that one "discard your manipulation and discussing people)
      
      Judging and accusing me:
      
      So now you are stooping to giving orders? I am not surprised. Go back and read of your comments to me. You ask about my judging you, judging fairly id what JESUS tells me in Matthew 7. I was just thinking of the tree and it's fruit. If I misjudged the tree I heartedly apologize, if I am right take your coat and wear it. It is not my call, it is your call to make.
    - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
      
      I have no reason to quarrel with you about you or me. None at all. All I want to do is discuss the issues based on facts so please stop this and I apologize as well if you were hurt. I have no desire to do any of that if you are a child of the Most High.
    - Evermyrtle
      
      I am 82 years old and have followed GOD and HIS SON, JESUS CHRIST, likely more years than you have even lived. I have no issues with you except that you be saved by the PRECIOUS BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST and to live and obey HIS WORD. Accept the fact, that we are not always right, no matter how hard we try. We are all sinners and if we do not accept that fact, there is no way that we can improve, if we think we are already, always right!!. As long as we live we will change and hopefully an prayerfully it will be for the better.
    - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
      
      Thank you and One Lord in Three Persons bless you.
    - KYFAN
      
      Evermyrtle, I once bought a bible that was being sold in a church that I went to with a friend. When I got home and started reading it, I noticed it had no mention of the word blood in it. I immediately got rid of it as I did not want my future children to see it and think that this is the way their mother believed. You are right to warn people to know what they are buying when they buy a bible that they know nothing about.
    - Evermyrtle
      
      Thank you, KYFAN, you made the point so much better than I did. I did not mean to upset anyone but saw the great need to recognize these fakes and tat is so important to the salvation to each on of us. It is our duty, who have discovered this fact to warn people. Again, thank you for making a point, after really experiencing the fact that these false bibles being available and in the house of GOD at times. I feel we must get the word out.
    - http://www.rethinkingao.com Mike Beidler
      
      KYFAN,
      
      Which version was this? I can't imagine a single Bible ever having been published that's void of the word "blood," especially considering that the Mosaic system required it in order to perform sacrifices, and the book of Hebrews compares the blood of bulls to the blood of Christ. Not only can I not imagine it, but I am fairly certain that your memory in this particular instance is, well, faulty.
    - Evermyrtle
      
      I believe KYFAN was referring to more than "blood" like in referring to "THE REDEEMING BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST."
    - http://www.rethinkingao.com Mike Beidler
      
      Evermyrtle,
      
      It is important, when discussing topics of this nature, to be very specific. Otherwise, we can tend to go off half-cocked and misinformation results.
      
      I'd love to see where the "redeeming blood of Jesus Christ" is missing from this aforementioned Bible.
      
      Thanks! :D
    - Evermyrtle
      
      Half cocked?? How can the half cocked become half cocked?????
  - tbone
    
    There are some bible versions to stay away from.
http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

Really, he introduced facts he does not want you to know about? Seems like an odd way of keeping these facts from people.
daves

How can you be sure about the translation of your bible?
- http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
  
  Lear Greek and Hebrew as best as you can and over time you will see which one is closest to the originals.
  - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
    
    Right, those originals that do not exist.
    - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
      
      Yep, they forgot to laser etched them in titanium blocks just for you… For the rest of us 5764 manuscripts (and growing) on almost 2 million pages incredibly consistent in content delivered over time, locations, societies and cultures is sufficient.
    - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
      
      The celebrated NT scholar, Bruce Metzger, admits: "The necessity of applying textual criticism to the books of the New Testament arises from two circumstances: (a) none of the original documents is extant, and (b) the existing copies differ from one another. The textual critic seeks to ascertain from the divergent copies which form of the text should be regarded as most nearly conforming to the original." [Bruce M. Metzger's "The Text of the New Testament: Its Transmission, Corruption and Restoration", 1964]
    - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
      
      To quote Bart Ehram:
      
      "In many instances of textual variation, possibly most, we are safe in saying that when the vast majority of manuscripts have one reading and only a couple have another, the majority are probably right. But this is not always the case. Sometimes a couple or a few manuscripts appear to be right even when all the others disagree. In part this is because the vast majority of our manuscripts were produced hundreds and hundreds of years after the originals, and they themselves were copied not from the originals but from other much later copies. Once a change made its way into the manuscript tradition, it could be perpetuated until it became more commonly transmitted than the original wording." ["Text and Tradition: The Role of New Testament Manuscripts in Early Christian Studies." The Kenneth W. Clark Lectures Duke Divinity School 1997 Lecture One: "Text and Interpretation: The Exegetical Significance of the "Original" Text" Delivered by Bart Ehram]
    - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
      
      "Within the pages of the New Testament there are textual variations that have not yet been satisfactorily resolved and that have profound effects, not just on a word here or there, but on the entire meaning of entire books and their portrayals of Jesus, e.g., the angry Jesus of Mark, the imperturbable Jesus of Luke, and the forsaken Jesus of Hebrews. These textual problems cannot simply be swept under the table and ignored. Commentators, interpreters, preachers, and general readers of the Bible must recognize their existence and realize the stakes involved in solving them." ["Text and Tradition: The Role of New Testament Manuscripts in Early Christian Studies." The Kenneth W. Clark Lectures Duke Divinity School 1997 Lecture One: "Text and Interpretation: The Exegetical Significance of the "Original" Text" Delivered by Bart Ehram]
    - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
      
      There is therefore no uniformity at all in the NT when it comes to its MSS tradition. Like the Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible states:
      
      "It is safe to say that there is not one sentence in the NT in which the MS tradition is wholly uniform." The NT is completely dependant upon manuscripts. Meaning the text of the NT changes time and time again as more ancient manuscripts are discovered which obviously are at odds with the other more recent manuscripts. This means the NT has been in a state of flux and evolution and will continue to remain in the state of flux and evolution as more and more manuscripts are discovered. The text of the NT is therefore dependant upon the manuscripts, verses in the NT will be expunged as the study of the manuscripts continues throwing more light on the corruption of the NT. It, the NT, is still an evolving text.
      
      In other words, any scripture that is primarily dependant upon manuscripts alone is the most easiest one to get corrupted.
    - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
      
      "To quote Bart Ehram: "
      
      I would imagine that you refer to Bart D. Ehrman… Ehrman and is writings are for gullible neophytes who will happily latch to anything resembling an excuse of disobeying God's Word and in the process happily pay for Ehrman's masses targeting books which Ehrman also happily accepts and even more happily spends. Ehmran writings are a joke cloaked in his schoraly past. Yes PAST for the man has not done any true textual criticism research or work in at least 12 years and is WAY BEHIND the field preferring to clip coupons from naive and biased folks like you. You have been duped again Dixon but you want that and will pay for that again and again and again… :)
    - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
      
      Neophyte, "corruption" has entirely different meaning in the field of textual criticism, especially in Metzger's works which you after Ehrman's happily divorce of Metzger's and textual field context… to blow it up into something that it was not and it is not…
  - aceituna
    
    Buy an Amplified Bible. It is about the closest to a literal translation you can get, but it is cumberson to read. You will have to read it to understand what I am getting at.
- tbone
  
  If you want to know if your bible is an authentic version or not, Read the first chapter of John. It states the divinity and humanity of Jesus.
doctordtz

See my comments below. Unfortunately you are correct. Stick with the KJV. Check out Gail Riplinger at avpublications.com if you have not already. It will rock your world as they say to see the extent this evil has gone — even to the level of concordances which have as definitons for the Greek words the meanings translated in the corrupt
versions!!
- http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
  
  Riplinger is a maniac and I am sorry you have bought into her sensationalism and find yourself in a cult of KJVonlyism.
  - tbone
    
    There's nothing wrong with the authorized version of the bible (KJV). It's when people go overboard and declare it to be the only version that is accurate. I like the KJV myself, but also use the new KJV. The NIV is ok too, but its not a translation, its a paraphrase. There is a difference.

Robert De Leon

Back in the XVI Century a catholic monk tried to “reform” the Church and established what some years later were known as Protestantism.
To try to “reform” the Church founded by Jesus Christ it was just the pretext. Political and economic issues were the main cause (as in every other human activity). In the end Protestantism “reformed itself. That’s the reason why just in America there are more than 32000 “biblical, christian and evangelical churches”.
Furthermore, with its errors Protestant believers think: “Jesus Christ may have said this, but actually He meant…” and this is another problem regarding “free interpretation of the Bible”.
That’s the first Protestantism sin. So many “churches” have a reason. After the “Reform era” any individual could read the Bible in a very freely way and could give his o her own interpretation of the Word of God. That’s why “some reformers” invented a Latin phrase: “Sola Scriptura” (just the scripture). To the “reformers” that’s the issue that matters and there is no more. No wonder any “pastor” takes the Bible and start to read it to some people gathered in a room or a building and there you go. You have your own “church”.
(Rad next post)

http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

Lies, lies, lies and more lies of unrepentant deceiver who according to his own Roman Church "worships and adores one and the same god with Muslims" who then have gall to disregard so many wicked, satanic and demonic teachings and practices of his Roman whore "church" and accuse people whom Roman whore oppressed and murdered for their biblical faith. What a demonic pawn you are DeMelon and what a shame to the name of Jesus you abuse for your lies and ignorance of issues you try to smear, slander and misrepresent. Sola Scriptura is doe not mean "just the Scripture" you ignorant liar and deceiver. It is the biblical teaching and doctrine that inspired Scriptures are THE HIGHEST AUTHORITY in the matter of true faith and true practice of it. You are so incredibly ignorant and oblivious to that as to the rest of the Biblical faith of which Reformation was and is re-exposition of of. You have replaced that truth and others with your man made Sola Ecclesia where your whore church made itself the highest authority at the cost of truth. Lear and read something about that you wickedly slander you puppet of priests.
- Robert De Leon
  
  Thanks for your VERY CHRISTIAN words – Jesus Christ words?. Are you seeing yourself in the mirror?
  Robert.
  - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
    
    Answer the factual rebuke yet that you cannot do worshiper of Allah… As usually why would you attempt to do that when you can INSTEAD talk about me… How deceived you are and how wicked.
- http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
  
  "America there are more than 32000 “biblical, christian and evangelical churches”. "
  Roman DeMelon
  
  Again LIAR as it was presented to you many, many,many times. This number is a misrepresentation and contains thousands of Jehovah Witnesses, Unitarians, Christadelphians and ther Spiritists and not by any stretch of imagination "Protestants". Furthemore the very same source states that there are 242 Roman Catholic Denominations and that Roman Whore Church murdered 5 MLN yes FIVE MILLION Christians over the ages yet you as every Roman deceiver will not quote that part…
  
  Here a factual debunk of that number that grows exponentially and not some papists claim there is 50 k "Protestant denominations" willingly blur the distinctions for what actually "Protestant" historically and factually means and what is the actual "denominations? Such is a nature of whore religion. Anything that serves Roman whore, any lies, any manipulations is OK for a Roman religious and in this regard we see again a striking similarity between them and their fellow brothers Muslims who do the same according to Islamic principle of lying for "god" called al-Taqiyya
  http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a106.htm
  - myth buster
    
    The fact that denominations exist at all runs afoul of 1 Corinthians 1:13, which forbids factionalizing and dividing the Church.
    - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
      
      That would include also 242 Roman Catholic denominations per same source. Would it not?
Evermyrtle

It is so easy to see the mistakes of the past and we should be careful not make the same one again. But there is an old saying that I like., "The kettle cannot afford to call the pot black."The best that any church can do is take the Bible "'THE TRUE WORD OF GOD, STAY IN TOUCH WITH GOD AND TEACH AND PREACH HIS WORD NOT STRAYING TO THE RIGHT OR TO THE LEFT.

We need to remember, "We are the children of GOD, we are responsible for what we say and what we do. HE says,"There is none righteous, no not one." We need to look at our lives and see where the changes are needed, and make the changes, after doing that we need to look around and see if there is anyone, that we can help see what is needed in their lives and help to make these changes.
- http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
  
  What a meaningless "kumbaya" ecumenistic and universalistic gobbledygook.
  Learn something about the VAST differences between Roman religion and Biblical Gospel:
  
  "Justification – The Contrast Between the Biblical Teaching and Roman Catholicism"
  
  Link: http://www.christiantruth.com/articles/justificat…
tbone

What is your opinion on the selling of indulgences by the RCC DeLeon?
tbone

I guess it would have been better if the bible had never been translated into the common language. Then all we'd have to do is trust the priest to give it to us straight? lol. DeLeon, I grew up in the RCC and for eight years attended a parochial school. In eight grade, my mother said that I was old enough to make my own decision as to what I believed and I chose to leave the catholic church. When I turned 17, I became a born-again christian and threw off all the old teachings and started to read the bible for myself and go to a bible preaching church. My life has never been better since then,

Robert De Leon

Nor even one single “reformer” explains – they don’t have anything to say – next text about such a separation:
St. John, Chapter XVII: 20-23. Our Dear Lord Jesus Christ was seeing the future, the XVI Century “Reform”.
Now, there is mistake over another mistake. Our “separated brethren” cite just one text from the Bible over certain issue and they omit some others. That’s the case of Faith. Luther, the former Catholic monk from XVI Century. He adopted the St. Paul text that we read on his Epistle to Romans to justify his invention: “Sola Fide” (just Faith). By the way you’ll never find in the whole Bible the word “sola”.
The question is that there are several texts in the Bible that tell us about “Faith and Deeds” as we can read it in the Gospel of St. Matthew, Chapter VII: 15-20 and much more specific in same Gospel, Chapter XXV: 15-20.
But the most dangerous and most terrible sin relates to the Eucharistic.
Speaking about His Body Jesus told to Jew people what we read in St. John, 6:47-66. He was not speaking about a symbolism, nor in a figuratively sense. He truly was speaking about His Body and His Blood, that is to say the Eucharistic. He said again in the Last Supper what we read in St. Luke, 22:19-20 and St. Matthew, 26:26-29. St. Paul repeats it in 1 Corinthians, 11:27:30.
There are some other Protestantism sins but I believe this is enough.
Robert.

http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

"to justify his invention: “Sola Fide” (just Faith). By the way you’ll never find in the whole Bible the word “sola”. "

What a bogus bogeyman DeMelon. You are a victim of spiritual lobotomy. You do not understand Sola Scriptura as documented above not do you understand Sola Fide either… It is not based on a word "sola" as your lying priests brainwashed you with but in in complete and full faith and trust in Christ and His righteousness and His merit and not one's own even though after regeneration in Christ we do and should the works prepared by Him to glorify Him.
You are ignorant of most basic concepts you are trying to slander. Were you on some kind of dungeon to be so completely deprived of any factual information? For crying out loud educate yourself man.

"Speaking about His Body Jesus told to Jew people what we read in St. John, 6:47-66. He was not speaking about a symbolism, nor in a figuratively sense."

You refer and sometimes partially quote what you do not understand and do not want to understand… How terryfing your enslaved truly is. In the very text you refer there is a summarizing statement that debunks and destroys your wicked and nefarious ceremony of eating "god" and drinking His "blood" Look:

"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the WORDS that I have SPOKEN to you are SPIRIT and are LIFE."
Gospel of John 6:63

Here in response to disciples and in summary Christ destroys your notion of feeding on tangible and physical representation by stating that His TEACHING in His WORDS is life and Spirit.

"There are some other Protestantism sins but I believe this is enough. "

No this is not enough. Your ignorance is nauseating. If you want to be just a shred effective then learn at least to truly present the other side and not its phantom used to phantom your own religious ego.
- myth buster
  
  If the Flesh of Christ profits nothing, then He was Incarnate in vain, died in vain and rose from the dead in vain, for Christ's sufferings in human flesh would profit nothing. As it is, though. the Flesh of Christ avails much! It is mortal flesh that avails nothing. Furthermore, the word used in the Greek here is "trogon," which means "gnaw on." "Unless you gnaw on My Flesh and drink My Blood, you have no life within you, says the Lord." Why do you nullify the Gospel for the sake of your tradition? Are you unaware that whosoever partakes of Communion without discerning the Body of Christ eats and drinks condemnation upon himself?
  - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
    
    Your argument or rather pseudo argument is with Christ and His truth not me:
    
    "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the WORDS that I have SPOKEN to you are SPIRIT and are LIFE." ~ Gospel of John 6:63
    
    It is you who discards His words for the sake of your man made traditions. You introduce false dichotomy between the incarnation of Christ and His teaching of what truly gives the eternal life and it is CLEARLY not your Roman "eating of god"…
http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

DeMelon,

Again, juxtaposing the teaching of your Romanism with Islam which your religion salvifically AFFIRMS:

"The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham,
and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Catechism of Roman Catholicism, Point 841

"And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

Qur'an, Surat An-Nisā' 4:157

I don't know how you can sleep knowing this, avoiding this and lying instead about people who gave their lives for Gospel truth on your Roman fire pyres.
doctordtz

Please note: John 6:63 says "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words I speak unto you, they are spirit , and they are life". Jesus clearly says the flesh profits you nothing. It is clearly the spirit behind the act which act symbolises what is happening spiritually when a person acts by faith to do what Jesus commanded to be done in "remembrance" of him in Luke 22:19. You are signifying identification with his body because you symbolise that he is a part of you by eating of the symbol he established for his body — just as the breaking of his bread recalls his death.

These each have parallels in the Passover meal in the OT where the lamb was killed and eaten. Jesus says in John 6:47 "…He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." and then says he is the living bread. Then he says we must eat of that bread. The parallel is inescapable: true belief in his perfect once for all sacrifice saves us forever because we eat of him spiritually and thus he comes into that innermost part of our being which we call the spirit. He then never leaves nor forsakes us but abides with us forever!
tbone

"sola" is a latin word. That's why you don't find it in the bible. Maybe somewhere in the Latin Vulgate. "Sola" simply means "only" as in Sola scriptura.

aceituna

in receivingg the bread and wine in the Lord's Supper, you are also at the same time receiving the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, IN, WITH, and UNDER it. Don't ask me how. God doesn't tell us how, only that the bread and wine IS his body and blood.

http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

No Jesus is in His Resurrected and Gloried Body on the right hand of Father and does not get to be cut up and serve up by men. He is however present in Spirit where true Lord's Supper is conducted to the Glory of His name.
- aceituna
  
  Jesus said "This IS" . That should seal it. We finite mortals cannot understand; we can only trust, accept and believe what our LORD tells us.

msjallen

NASV the best version of the Bible. The manuscripts were inferior when the KJV was printed.
The Textus Receptus on which the KJV is based did not have the many older and better texts that have been found since the 1600s, i.e., the Dead Sea Scrolls. One must study from the original languages to get the true meaning and that means one must know Hebrew and Greek. That is why one should learn from a pastor or minister who has learned these languages for correct translation and interpretation under the power of the gift of the Holy Spirit. This also means as listeners we need to be filled with the Holy Spirit to be able to perceive, metabolize and apply the Word of God to our lives.

doctordtz

See my general comments below regarding the doctrine of the preservation of scripture in English in the KJV and my response to Victor Barney. Also, it might be helpful to you in terms of source materials and the logic of these type of arguments. Some Christian bookstores are afraid of this material because it suggests the true reason there are so many translations: money! The new translations are all copyrighted in text and/or notes; the KJV was not copyrighted in its text but had a cum priviligio for the King's printer. No one dared claim they had the right to be seen as authors with a copyright!
- msjallen
  
  Some of the original translators used by King James were unbelievers as well as believers and they only had Textus Receptus for the NT and the Ben Chayyim Masoretic Text for the OT. The Bible is without error in the original languages. Since that time there have been many manuscripts found that were older like the Dead Sea Scrolls. However, we must study the Bible from the original languages (Hebrew, Greek & Aramaic) taught by a pastor who studies and teaches from those original languages historically, categorically, and using isagogics (Hermeneutics). It takes time but the Bible is absolute; every word is important and must be interpreted correctly. A good Bible Doctrine teaching church doesn’t need entertainment to stay open.
  II Tim 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
tbone

NASV is not a translation, its just a paraphrase. Nonetheless, its good reading and maintains its textual accuracy.
- Eric
  
  "NASV is not a translation, its just a paraphrase."
  
  No it's not, it is most certainly a translation. You may not like the translation, but it is not a paraphrase. The NIV isn't really even a paraphrase, although it has elements of being one. It is a "thought for thought" translation, whereas the NAS is a "word for word" (and when necessary a "phrase for phrase"). A paraphrase is more along the lines of The Message or The Living Bible or the Good News Bible.

Victor Barney

Look up Petrus Galatinus. After all, he is the CREATOR of "JESUS" in like 1520AD for Pope Leo the 10th when he asked his Church Philiosopher Petrus to change the NAME of the Jewish MESSIAH into a NAME that HONORED "ZEUS" because it always was ROMAN TRADITION to HONOR the HIGHEST DEITIES of all those countries that they had defeated, with Greece being the last one. It is recorded history, don't you know? Just saying…

doctordtz

Even though a few letters are shared by the names Zeus and Jesus and some misguided Pope may have had a rather blasphemous intention at heart, he failed because the Latin (Waldensian) pure texts of the New Testament are what determined the form of the Anglicization of the Latin and Greek terms for the Jewish Messiah's name into English!

In other words, they determined the closest equivalence term in English given alphabet phonetic values in source and target languages and extant meanings of names in source and target languages. The KJV translators were not only gifted in these understandings but had Greek to Latin concordances (no longer extant today) and access to the entire works of virtually all the classical Greek writers (to determine perfectly biblical vs secular word usage) in context.
- doctrordtz
  
  Also, contrary to your understanding the KJV translators library was apparently found recently and had thousands of manuscripts for reference as well as polyglot versions in other languages to confirm the best translation which was also put before the clergy of the entire English Church for further comment. In addition, "Jesus" is clearly defined in the NT in the totally preserved word of God! If God's word were not perfectly preserved then no Christian could claim Jesus saved them because he would be guilty of a lie when he said that his word would never pass away. Errors like this originate in false doctrines that "only the originals were inspired"!

Matt Holm

Many, if not most modern "Christian" churches and ministries seem to have very CREATIVE interpretations of The Ten Commandments. This is what drove my family away from the Catholic Church in the late 1950's. If you read the text of the Second Commandment, the language is UNAMBIGUOUS in the extreme, and yet many, many churches continue to offer up graphic depictions of Jesus, Mary, and the various Saints, Angels, etc. Many "Christian" gift shops, and the Catholic Church gift shops sell "graven" images for money! I believe this to be an abomination, and totally antithetical to the letter and spirit of the Second Commandment.

And what of the Sixth Commandment: "Thou shalt not kill." So many of the current-day evangelical fundamentalist churches and ministries express total support for our murderous rampages in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere. Many of these ministries preach that it is our religious responsibility to support the racist and murderous policies of the Zionist State of Israel against the Palestinians and their Islamic and Christian neighbors,as their extremist leaders take a path that leads the world inevitably towards Armageddon.

Can I be the only observer who has a moral and spiritual PROBLEM with these inconsistencies between the modern-day practice of Christianity versus the Commandments we were all taught from childhood?

doctordtz

Read and stay with a King James Version previously named Authorized Version. It has no errors as do all other bibles – whether they are Catholic or Protestant!

For example, in Acts 12:4 virtually all versions translate the Greek pascha as passover but the correct translation actually is Easter! If you are not familiar with this error and why it is an error, see Acts 12:3 and think it out carefully!!! The KJV translators got it right but no one else did in the next 400 plus years. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm!

Otherwise, read books that defend not only the inspiration and inerrancy of the Bible but also defend the preservation of the scriptures in English in the KJV and conclusively show the corruption in all other English versions commonly extant today. Examples from avpublications.com would be "New Age Bible Versions", "In Awe Of Thy Word" and "Hazardous Materials" by Gail Riplinger.

msjallen

The KJV is not the authorized version just because it says so. The NASV is closest to the Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic and when taught by one's pastor-teacher fewer changes have to be made when teching word by word and verse by verse. I grew up with the KJV and have memorized many verses from it and still use them to this day. However, the NASV is better understood since we don't speak Shakespearian and is very confusing to our young people. I am not saying it is wrong to use the KJV; I am only saying it is NOT the best translation from the originals languages and needs a great deal of explanation and I would say that 99.9% of believers today do not know the original languages. I only recommend the NASV.
eVERMYRTLE

doctordtz, I use the KJV extensively, every day. I only have one other version the Amplified Version which I use very rarely. But I do plan to get copy of the Geneva Bible. These I trust, and see no reason to change because someone else may think EVERYBODY should have what they have. BUT DO BE VERY CAREFUL WITH SOME OF THE OLDER VERSIONS AND ANY NEW VERSION THAT MAY COME OUT, MANY ARE NOT WITHOUT DELIBERATE ERRORS.

doctordtz

In Matt 24:35 Jesus said "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. Please notice that he did say "my words"! We would agree as Christians that Jesus did not lie, otherwise he would have been accused rightly of sin and could not be the spotless Lamb atoning for everyone's sin. Thus his words — the entire scriptures — are from the Lord and never have and never will pass away. See also : Psalm 12:6-7, Prov 30:5-6, Is 40:8, Matt 5:18, Luke 16:17, Luke 21:33, John 17:17, 1 Peter 1:23-25, 1 John 4:1-6, 1 John 5:7-11 and Revelation 22:18-19 in the KJV.

The God who numbers the hairs on your head, weighs the dust of the earth, calls the stars (approx 16 sextillion of them) by name, who preserved the Israelites in crossing the Red Sea, who preserved the burning bush and who preserved the three Hebrew children thru the fire without the even the smell of smoke clinging to them but allowed the fire to burn off their rope bonds — to any reasonable fair thinking person — can and did also “preserve” his words down to the very jot and tittle as Jesus also said in scripture!

msjallen

Because God had the Bible written in Hebrew & Greek is the reason it has been preserved since those languages can be proven to mean exactly what God intented them to mean. We can't just read the Bible; regardless of what version, and grow spiritually. We need the teaching from our pastor-teacher to make the Bible clear from the original languages.

doctordtz

The question to ask to really get the point across is the following question:
If God is omnipotent how could his revelation ever be lost??
The obvious answer is that it never was lost! Brilliant but unbelieving
scholars fed the Church that lie to ensure themselves a job of finding it (God's word) again!
It's just another rendition of the question from Satan to Eve “Yea, hath God said?”

Muslims believe their scriptures are perfectly preserved! If you do not believe our God's scriptures are perfectly preserved you have accepted a view of the Lord which makes him a weaker God than that of the Muslims! In an apologetics argument they would destroy you at the very foundation of your faith.. Be wise and read the pure and Holy Bible and stand against the pervasive rank error that is infused into other translations than the KJV.

msjallen

I know you are convinced that what you believe is correct and I am also convinced what I believe is correct. However, there are so many verses in the KJV that are incorrect and it takes the originals languages to explain them. That doesn't mean that we should reject the KJV but it is NOT the best translation from the original languages. It does keep many people from reading the Bible because it is hard to read especially when believers have no idea how to be filled with the Holy Spirit when they read, study or listen to Bible teaching. I am referring to 1 John 1:9 before we can take in God's Word and use it in our daily lives.

doctordtz

One last thought: do not say “only the originals were inspired”, because in the New Testament, many
verses refer to the “scriptures” as being the word of God and they obviously cannot all be the same originals simultaneously in many different places. This error was propagated by B B Warfield from Princeton. This thought is very well discussed in “In Awe Of Thy Word”.

msjallen

God’s own complete and coherent message to man was recorded in perfect accuracy in the original languages of scripture: Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. They are the languages carrying Divine Authorship.
God will not allow His Word to be distorted in any way even if man has translated from inferior manuscripts. For example, the KJV was translated in 1611 before so many Dead Sea Scrolls were found with the original languages. Our church (Non-denominational Biblicist) believes in teaching from the original languages using hermeneutics to get the exact meaning of each word in every book of the Bible. For instance, it took my pastor five years to teach Ephesians because there are so many Christian doctrines in each verse and he taught M-F & twice on Sunday. No believer can just read the Bible and grow spiritually. It takes the spiritual gift of P-T to study from the original languages for the exact meaning. The confusion comes from man who wants to do things their way instead of God’s way.