Youth Ministry: A '50-Year Failed Experiment' - ZIONICA.com

tod

The reason I left the church as a child was because the Sunday worship didn't match what the Bible told me to do,keep the Sabbath.For what the bible really says, go to lcg.org 9The Living Church of God .

Evermyrtlelinder

This is a common cause of people leaving the church. Many groups around the nation have formed as small churches. This is a wonderful idea. BUT, these groups need to be very careful that they don't do the same thing that is going on in many denominational churches.

Last summer hundreds of churches of every denomination met and adopted the idea of joining up and making "CHRISLAM, WHICH IS AN ABOMINATION TO GOD." We cannot join Islam with Christian worship, which is what Chrislam consist of, and be blessed by GOD, HE does take notice of our decisions and HE knows the name of every person who has taken part in this violation of our SAVIOR AND GOD.. This shows just how badly our nation has failed GOD. One question comes to mind:"HOW DO WE EXPECT TO SURVIVE WITH SO LITTLE RESPECT FOR OUR JESUS CHRIST IN THIS UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. THIS AFTER ELECTING A NON-CITIZEN, JESUS CHRIST HATING MUSLIM ISLAMIST, president. WE HAVE TO BE IN THE END DAYS, THERE IS NO OTHER EXPLANATION.
- Kalev
  
  Yes, Chrislam is an abomination to God and that so-called president is a Muslim and not a natural born citizen. Another 4 years of him and we will lose our few remaining freedoms.
  - Dave
    
    Actually he's an atheist/communist. Russian Communists funded his education from cradle to……..present. search for Tom Fife essay, and listen or read what he has to say. Also search for Tom Ayers mailman interview. That would be Bill Ayers father, the terrorist who married Berhadine Dohn founders of the Weather Underground.
  - Betts
    
    Name one freedom you personally have lost since the current president's inauguration.
    - One4him
      
      the right to choose NOT to pay for abortions
      the right to choose whether I want to buy health insurance these are 2 rights we lost directly from the current president.
    - Evermyrtle
      
      The right to take our Bibles to school
      The right to talk about JESUS at school
      The right to pray in school
      The right to even say the word JESUS in public
      The right to hand out Bibles on the street if we want to.
      The right to say whether our daughters are taken from school to a murder, I mean an abortion clinic.
    - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
      
      Which Jesus please? The "created one" according to 7th Day Adventists?
    - Evermyrtle
      
      Of course, we are talking about OUR VERY OWN JESUS CHRIST THE ONLY SON OF GOD, WHO WILL REIGN FOREVER IN SPITE OF ANYTHING THE ANTI-CHRIST CAN DO!!
    - Jeff
      
      So this is where the lunatic fringe hangs out huh? Evermyrtle, your claims are demonstrably false. People still have every one of those rights.. You just aren't allowed to force others to do them with you. And it wasn't Obama who took those from you, it was the Constitution.
    - Evermyrtle
      
      What Constitution? The one that Obama is trying to destroy and has almost succeeded in doing??
Paul

"Keeping the law" is just as ineffective for those who are saved, as it is for those who are unsaved. The Law is a tutor, leading us to Christ. If you will, a "mirror" showing us our sinfulness – and just like a mirror, unable to cleanse us from sin or to keep us clean.

Don't be caught in the folly of the Galatians:
You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

Dan

And Jesus said he was the fulfillment of the Mosaic Law, and provided us with a New Covenant underwhich believers were released from that law (read Paul in Galations).

Kalev

The (re)New(ed) Covenant is the Covenants given before Messiah now written on our hearts. The only parts of the Mosaic Law not applicable is blood sacrifices for sin and the Levitcal Priesthood as Messiah is our final sacrifice for sin and our Priest after the order of Melchizedek. The Ten Commandments are forever and the Sabbath remains the seventh day, Friday sunset through Saturday sunset.
- Evermyrtle
  
  AMEN!
Dennis

What is sin? Sin is transgression of the law.So this new age teaching is in fact saying sin no longer exists which is complete idiocy.I tell you now the law was not done away with.The only thing that was done away with was animal sacrifice for forgiveness of sin for YESHUAH MESSIAH was the ultimate sacrifice and the levical priesthood was done away with as well.Thats it.The laws, commandments and statutes are in full affect and to ignore this is complete stupidity.

Marilyn

If youth ministry was viewed as an experiment, it probably has failed. Youth are our future. We are now raising up a generation of youth that are bold, love challenges, love God with all their heart and are grounded in the faith. Perhaps their parents missed the boat on this but many parents are now realizing what they missed and encouraging their teens to "take a stand." Eventually the "bordom" of many church services give way to an energizing of the Christian youth in a church to rise up. All they need is a "true and real" Christian leader to help them focus–if not a pastor, then a parent who is "on fire" for God in these last days. The age gap is not really a reason to throw out the "youth with the bath water." It is a call for older Christians to wake up and become what Christ called us to be…awake, watching, worshiping, witnessing!

msjallen

Children need to be taught what God thinks from the very beginnng of their life on earth. How? Through the examples and words from their parents. In my opinion the church one attends should have classes for children until they are 12 years old. Most children can't keep still long enough to get through a service that they can't understand unless it is on their level. I went through that torcher but loved the singing. I learned more in my age class than in church until I was older. Our church we attend now teaches the same Bible Doctrine that is taught from the pulpit but on the child's level. When they come into the regular adult worship service they are prepared to listen and understand. If a child has been taught correctly, they will come back to the Lord and His teachings.
Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old (mature), he will not depart from it.

Dionesius3

I have two children age 7 and 5. And they have no problem sitting still and paying attention. I have taught them how to do so and they enjoy going to church. When we visit other churches and some adults come and try to get them to go to children's church they say, "no thank you, I can understand English" LOL
- msjallen
  
  That is great but you are not the norm these days. My children were taught to be still in church as well as I was but it is amazing how well they can apply God's Words to their lives when taught on their level especially when they are also taught at home. I can tell by your other posts that you are well versed in God's Word and I appreciate your comments.
- Evermyrtle
  
  You're in control just as a parent should be. If you do not teach them the world do the job for you. Problem :the world's teaching may not be what is desired by Christian parents. My children always knew to sit quietly.
Tigertame4

That is a very nice idea. You can "train" your child to sit still and pay attention BUT their brains are not ready to understand the sermon. It is nice to have a child service to help them understand. I wonder how many of these children who "sit still and pay attention" will continue going to church as adults. Jesus preached outside frequently and I bet children played by his feet while he did it.
- Evermyrtle
  
  They have been doing that for generations and usually turn out good. They will under stand more that we give them credit for.
- Susan
  
  I soooo agree with you! Yea!
Susan

I can't agree with msjallen more – who in their right mind would classify 'youth groups' as an experiment? I've been working with children at every level and see them each year mature and grow in the Lord – it is not the church's whole responsibility to teach our children – this begins at home. Hopefully, there is leadership with the father . . .growing up I didn't have the luxury of Children's Church – we sat and were bored to tears because we didn't understand a flippin word! Now the children are in age-appropiate teaching and it is wonderful what the teachers do with them! Hats off to all our SS teachers and workers . . .

Dionesius3

This study is a good thing. It shows what I have known for some years now, that the way most are "doing" church is both unbiblical and unproductive. Smaller churches are by far the best way in which believers can learn, and grow while worshipping.

cbjr

There is nothing wrong with Youth Ministry when it is in the proper context. But when it is used as a replacement for corporate worship as a family, then it really does more harm than good.

My children have been taught that we worship together as a family. We do not come to church for daycare and we do not come to be split apart. The younger children are taught to participate in the service as much as they are able (such as singing, prayer, etc) and for what they cannot participate in, they must (1) not be a distraction to those around them and (2) must not be a distraction to their mother. Once they can write, they are taught to take notes. Some discernment on my part is required on what constitutes "note taking." I have to exercise wisdom as to what they are capable of. What I expect of my second grader is not the same as when I expect of my middle schooler.

Our church reinforces this type of thought process. Families are encouraged to be together for worship. If the family is a "one-and-done" kind of attender, then they are encouraged to not send their child to "youth group" but rather attend corporate worship together. However, if they come for more than one service (as we do), they are encouraged to participate in corporate worship as a family AND THEN they can attend their age-group ministries.

I have found that this works well not only from the standpoint of fulfilling a God-ordained spiritual headship over the family, but it has caused the children to be more obedient in public places, they know how and when to sit still and behave, and they also are lightyears ahead of their peers (Christian and non-Christian) in note-taking ability. It has served to pull us together more as a family and has built a desire for the church in their hearts. (A good example was recently my wife had to be out of town on a Sunday and I overslept for our usual first service but could still make the second – the children were quite upset about whether they would miss worship service.)

RB

very well written, I can say ditto for my family as well. I'd like to add that after the service we discuss the sermon as a family. It's a wonderful time to hear my kids perspective of each message. And we have a week to share how each of us experienced these truths. My kids have fun all the time. I'd rather their worship time be just that.

Dionesius3

I am all for disbanding Sunday School as well. It does nothing but divide the age groups and often the genders. It means many classes have "teachers" who are not really qualified or called to be a teacher. And it stops the flow of wisdom and learning from the oldest to the younger. We segregate our Senior Adults who have the most experience and wisdom from our younger adults and children. How can that possibly be a good thing?

Country girl

However, the separation in age groups allows the teachers to discuss age appropriate issues. Especially when the topic is brought to light by a child. It is done to reach each child at their level.
- Dionesius3
  
  Teachers should be able to address any issue that would come up in Bible study in any age group. We are not talking about a health or science class here we are talking about the Bible. There is nothing in the Bible that is age-inappropriate for anyone. And who better to answer age-specific questions than an elderly person who has been living the Christian life for 45 or more years?
msjallen

Dionesius, teachers at my church have to be qualified before they are accepted and strictly use our pastor's literature that he teaches from the pulpit on their age level. Since our church is taught from the original languages in the regular service word by word and verse by verse there needs to be total concentration with no distrubances that childen often can't help. After church we all talk about what the children learned and they love to give us what they were taught.
I do agree, however, that Sunday School can be harmful if the teachers are not qualified.
- Evermyrtle
  
  You are blessed to be in such a church, as long as you are taught straight from GOD'S WORD. The churches I have been attending do not do that . They allow anyone to teach who are willing to do it. I personally know people who have been allowed to teach, while allowing their children to have live in lovers right int heir homes.
Susan

I'm glad I don't attend your church if they are segretating the Senior Adults – our Senior are the most active teachers at our church . . .
- Dionesius3
  
  I was not speaking of my church I was speaking of 98% of churches on the face of the planet. Your church does it too when you divide up sunday school classes by age groups.

Tim

Regardless of whether or not youth ministry is a failure, it's disheartening to see that every commenter so far has horrible spelling and / or grammar. Hopefully this is a failure of the schools and not of the church…

loren

Andrew Jackson said it was a sad man that can only come up with one way to spell a word. Esp sad are people with petty judgement of a fool.
- American Gram
  
  Look at who is being judgemental.
edcrandall

The first Sunday Schools were begun in order to teach child factory workers to read and write using the Bible and Bible stories as reading material. Factory workers(as young as 5 or 6) only had Sundays off.
- Dionesius3
  
  And Sunday school's should have been left to die when there were no more child factory workers. Adults sitting around talking about the Scriptures with no real understanding of Biblical Interpretation is about the biggest waste of time and resources imaginable. Just think how many meals could be provided to the hungry if churches did not spend all that money on Sunday School literature.
Evermyrtle

Every group should decide on their own what to do about the situation. Best to try to figure out what the problems are and try to correct them. Perhaps some kind of Christian entertainment, since entertainment is so important to young people, today. There is so much of that going on that is not healthy or benifitcal for young people. There needs to be a great change.

http://www.oc-church.org Loren

I have been in ministry for over 20 years and don't think I have ever read a more idiotic article in my life. Only a pure secular humanist would teach such heresy

Dionesius3

You have not had time to sit and clearly think about the issue if you have been in the ministry for the past 20 years. Just consider for a moment how manyy youth in your churches have continued in the faith after youth ministry was over. In my experience it is less than20%. Is that a good expenditure of funding?
Thom Hall

Loren, you have shown your self foolish by speaking without knowledge.

The group featured in the article is actually as far from Secular Humanism as you can get. In fact the effects of Secular Humanism on the Church in America is one of the strongest motivators for their abandoning the sunday school/youth group model. And they are actively working and standing against the tide of Secular Humanism. Even the recently deceased Chuck Colson talked openly about Happy Clappy church without depth. This group strongly teaches that Fathers lead their families, they teach daily instruction of the family in the word, their children can quote scripture some chapters at a time, their children know not moralisms but doctrine and the book chapter and verse to reference and the logic to support. They see the pulling of children away from parents and the older (elder) members as directly contrary to the example and command given in Holy Scripture. Many even take exception to even the idea of "teenager" and see the word youth referring to a young man or woman, responsible and mature enough to learn from the older men and women. Their children step up to that expectation.

You may need to look at what foundation and authority you based your previous statement. No where in scripture are sunday schools mentioned, or even inferred. And you had the audacity of calling it heresy?

I apologize if my fervor on this comes off as harsh. However with three of the four points in your statement being completely baseless and false I stongly question the validity of the 4th. The three being your points on idiotic, humanist, and heresy. The fourth being ministry.
Susan

Amen . . .

Tom

A better "youth ministry" is where parents band together with other families and have a "youth meeting." At the "youth meeting" the "youth pastors" (otherwise known as fathers) can bring their youth together and have a "youth activity." Some of these activities include volley ball, painting houses for widows, or anything you want.

Dropping your children off to some well meaning "youth pastor" and expecting him to inculcate godliness and spirituality to your kids is not the way God intended it.

The church needs to teach fathers how to have family Bible studies and how to "pastor" their own children. But, I think I hear somebody saying, but what about kids who come from divorced families? If the church was teaching their flock how to do discipleship, instead of some of the other worldly things churches are doing these days, our families and our country would be a lot better off.

Instead of bringing people to church to hear how to be saved, and how to do all kinds of things spiritual, Christ's disciples could do these things in neighborhoods and work places (on break or lunch, of course).

A lot of times it's easier to bring the doctor to the patient, instead of bringing the patients to the hospital. Teach your flock how to make disciples instead of having all the expensive "programs" that make churches think they are being successful, when really they have become more like country clubs with amenities. Churches don't need digital signs out in front or expensive sounds systems or a lot of other things that cost a lot of money. Make disciples, not country club members.

Dionesius3

I agree totally. But get a local church to do it that way, or just suggest that they do it that way and see what the reaction will be.

Guest

My daughter-in law and grandchildren (teens) attend a mega-church and the children only go to Youth church. They also attend church camp and other activities during the year. They don't even know what John 3:16 is. My son knows, but he doesn't attend church anymore — because of youth "Pastors" when he was young.

Susan

Then – where is the leadership in this family that they would stay at this 'mega' church ? ? ? One always wants to lay blame .. 'because of the youth Pastors' – now, come on – this is lame.

Violet

Years ago there was a slogan. Don't send your children to church, take them. It is as good advise today as it was then.

keyboardshark

I suppose there is nothing inherently wrong or sinful about the idea of 'youth ministry', but I do not find any Biblical support for setting children apart for an age-segregated ministry either. From what I find, it is primarily the responsibility of the parents to teach their children about spiritual matters:

"5And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

6And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

7And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
(Deut. 6)

"4We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the LORD, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done.

5For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children:

6That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children:

7That they might set their hope in God, and not forget the works of God, but keep his commandments:"
Psalm 78

"1Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

2Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;

3That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

4And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord."
Ephesians 6

"20Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.

21Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged."
Colossians 3

Dionesius3

That is the way I see it too. We have as a church bought into the world's ideas when we divide up into age based groups. And the whole idea of Sunday School in general is a joke in this day and age. When you had child labor happening and the only schooling a child ever got was at church on Sunday then Sunday School was a great solution for a tough issue. But with no children working full time and having public schooling there is no longer a need for the Sunday School.
Of course organized denominations and full-time ministers will have a mental meltdown if you suggest disbanding the Sunday Schools and using the funds that are now spent on literature for something else. And don't forget the money that would be saved by not having to climate control all those Sunday School rooms, Not needing the chairs, tables, markers, crayons, pens pencils, cleaning supplies, electricity, and whole wings of extra buildings.
The ammount of money 98% of churches put into this "dead Horse" is staggering. Not to mention the sheer waste of time the whole exercise is.
- keyboardshark
  
  Yes, it's hard to interrupt the status quo once it has become firmly entrenched.

Michael Pierce

We often try to implement our own ideas in place of Gods Commands. Building relationships even when Christian is not what he told us to do. Only by getting the word of God into there hearts and minds do they become new. Replacing this with a group of Christian young people hanging out and participating in activities, no matter how Christian oriented is not the answer to what God told us to do. "Raise a child in the way he should go and he will not depart from it" I have seen many develop ministries in which they believe that because of the music and prayer the young people are fulfilling God's command. But it is not, only by the study of the word of God, does the spirit change. And then the child is sure of which way he should go. Anything outside of this is just a false sense of action.

Lee Anne

I'd be interested to know what his criteria was to judge youth ministry. There are TONS of variables involved aside from the actual "youth ministry." The secular society of today is a huge pull as is the fact that society no longer expects people to go to church. I am sure many people in the past continued to go to church out of a sense of duty or "what would the neighbors think," rather than a sense of real spirituality. Maybe young people are leaving the church more than in the past BUT those that stay are likely much more invested and truly wanting to be there.

I would like to see in 10, 15, and 20 years how many of these young people return to the church and how much the seeds that are planted by youth ministry bring them back.

One last rant-For those who are dissing youth ministry about how their kids or grandkids don't know scripture, YOU are supposed to teach them.

I am not a youth minister, have never gone to youth ministry events but, I have met some really dynamic youth ministers. I am Catholic and we don't have a youth ministry program at our church.

Dionesius3

In 10-20years there won't be anybody in the church if we keep going down the road we are on now. And being a Catholic you should understand this phenomenon. Your church has not fallen to the fallacy of "we have got to do something to attract young people" mentality that Protestant churches are filled with today. And from the outside you should be able to recognize how silly it is for Protestant churches to try and jazz up their worship services in order to attract a larger crowd. While dropping the most important part of the whole idea I.e. worshipping Christ.

madmemere

Youth ministry is NOT a failure, now some parents may be a "failure" when it comes to raising their children in the ways of God and Christianity. If you feel that you have "failed your children", ask your pastor for help, OR the youth minister at your Church. I'm a parent and a grandparent and, many times, feel I have NOT done my job well enough.

Thom Hall

Any program that is unsuccessful 80% of the time is a failure. Yes I will be the first to say that it is the Fathers responsibility to teach and train the children God gave to them. That just increases my point. If it is the Fathers responsibility then there are three logical positions concerning Youth Programs:
1. They are a safety net for the short coming of the Family. If so they are not effective with an 80% loss rate.
2. They are to augment the teaching and training that should happen in the Family. Again how effective is that?
3. They are in opposition, not blatant, but effectual, to the maturation of child within the Family. This I have seen in my own families life. Having taught our own children, they were frustrated to tears about the watered down moralism mush being taught in the youth programs. and this from a congregation that claimed to support the family.

So yes any thing, or program, or person who does not do what it is designed, chartered, or designated to do is a failure. Clear and Simple.

Thom Hall

We don't teach our children to talk. God put the ability to learn language into the child.
We don't teach our children to walk. God put that desire to go bi-ped in our children.
We don't teach our children to eat. God gave them the ability to lift their hand, chew and swallow.

Our responsibility as parents is not as difficult as what seems most people believe. We do not need a degree in sociology. We do not need credentials in theology. We need not be Ordained clergy to teach our children…

The Holy Father has put into every child the innate ability and desire to learn. Our job is to first of all not get in the way. Secondly, insure that the child is exposed to that which is right. Thirdly, we give discernment to the actions in their life. and Fourthly teach them who the Holy Father is and how to love him.

That is as simple as every night having everyone sit around the dinner table (we all have to eat right) the Father of the family opens up a Bible during the meal, and Read. To know Christ, read the Gospels. To know the early Church read Acts and the Epistles. To know the Holy Father read Genesis. To know Wisdom read the Proverbs. To Know how to Love the Father, read the Psalms.

It is that simple. Read to them daily. Have them read to you. Read chapters like Exodus 20 or 1 Corinthians 4 and have them repeat after you. If they have questions, research the answer for them and WITH them. If they do not have questions. Read some more.

Don't you think that if God the Father commanded you to teach his children that he would give you everything you need to do what he tells you?

Hurricane

How silly this all is. You won't have these issues where Truth lives and reigns in the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church. The ONLY church He founded and is guided by the holy spirit. The church that is today as she was yesterday and will be tomorrow. Amen!

http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

Now, you feel better? Neither apostolic, neither holy and neither one… Read about your unity here:
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=66696…
- Dionesius3
  
  He did not capitalize catholic which usually indicates that the person is not Roman Catholic.
  But he might be,
  However there seems to be a real use of "Jargon" in his post which often betrays a religous issue reaching beyond simple doctrinal problems.

Winston

There is much evidence that many churches/leaders use the "youth ministry" to bring the world/sin into the church. And, on top of that those who do lead the youth are too immature themselves to adhere to Bibllical teachings out of their own personal misinterpretations of Scripture, and they push very rapidly to become a senior pastor of their own church. There's no wonder mature believers leave the church out of frustration and disgust.

Susan

Judgmental??? Yes????!!!
- Dionesius3
  
  No, just realistic. Youth ministry is for the most part an excersize in futility. At worst it is giving parents, students, and church members a false sense of accomplishment that should not be there and is not based on anything real or eternal in nature. It's akin to putting a band-aid on a sucking chest wound. It may make you think you are helping, but in the end the patient is still dying.

Right Turn Only

I cannot agree with what this story implies. Youth ministries do work. I came out of one. Many of my friends I have rediscovered on FB are still practicing Christians. BTW I'm over 50 and was 13-14 when I was saved.

Kids will follow the crowd. If the crowd is following Jesus.They will at least get a chance to hear the Gospel and make their own decision.

Susan

Dear Right Turn Only – I guess we came from the same school – and it worked for our family . . . and is still working . . . and I'm past the 50 mark and still working with 1st graders in SS & Awana. There couldn't be a bigger blessing than working with children . .

aceituna

A youth ministry is only as good as the one leading it. Some are exceptionally good and very successful. Some are not good and turn everything into a disaster. Some are wolves in sheep clothing and are there to lead our youth astray. To be a good youth minister is a gift from God. A youth minister while providing instruction apart from adults will also work to integrate the youth with all church activities and help the youth to find out his special gifts from God that can be used to further God's kingdom. Noone can do everything well, but each one needs to find the nitch God has designed him for. He is to use his gift for the glory of God.

Dionesius3

God has called all to be ministers, God has gifted all to be able to train up youth in the way they should go. God has provided and commanded us all to do the things you are talking about. There is no special class of christians who can do somethings and not do other things.

JDB Esq.

My wife had the prescience to understand this and we kept our kids out of "kid Sunday school" and "Childrens' Church." They didn't go to the Jr. High or High School group, either. We also homeschooled from the beginning, and had the philosophy that we weren't raising kids, but adults. Our kids did a huge amount of "kid stuff," like ballet, soccer, Little League, Speech & Debate, Boy Scouts, etc.

I wouldn't change anything. Our kids are confessing Christians and powerful adults. Don't hand your kids over to the public school to ruin, or to youth ministries to ruin. May God bless your sacrifice, as He did ours.

Dionesius3

Amen brother.

Penny

I was in my church's youth ministry for years and also attended regular services and whatnot. I'm now an atheist. The Midwest Science of Origins Conference was so much more fun than church.

Susan

I'm sorry you didn't have a close relationship with Jesus – who died for your sins and mine. Hopefully, you will invite Him into your life before it is too late . . . interesting, though, to see an athiest reading a Christian article and commenting on it . . . .
Dionesius3

Did you not learn anything in church youth group? (I am being ironic) But seriously, I am sorry that the church you attended failed to provide you adequate instruction. And that your parents did not fulfil their duty to you. But you are an Adult now and life goes on the question is do you desire to know the truth? If you do have that desire then rest assured God has plans for you. Seek him, and he will show himself to you.

BYRON

After 20 yrs, I walked away from the Adventist religion, I have no use for such. How young poeple worship is different then how old poeple worship. Those boring hymns.

Susan

Actually – it isn't a religion you walked away from . . . . our personal relationship with Jesus is what counts in the end . . .
did you ever accept Him as your Savior? Find another church – not religion.

The Toddibear

Interesting. Accurate, but not true. You are correct to assume it is a failure as an experiment, because an experiment has its measurements in your hypothesis. You made an assumption about what Youth Ministry was trying to do, and when it did not do that, you deemed it a failure. If you were baking bread or mixing chemicals, this would be an intelligent conclusion.

But that's NOT what we are doing here. We are using whatever method we can to provide the next generation with the information they need to understand that God Loves them, He has a plan for them, and they are here because he WANTED them to be, they are by no means an accident.

Young people are not leaving the church because of the presence of youth ministry. We are losing them because of the absence of biblical ministry. We have replaced the true doctrine of the scriptures with "whatever sounds good". We have taken our God of Love, and have tried to ignore that he is also a God of Justice. We as parents do not involve ourselves with the Youth Ministry, or take advantage of the tools and handouts designed to provide us with the opportunity to minister to our children at home during the remaining week.

But of all the things I find most disappointing, is that we would arrogantly judge the work that God is doing on the basis of a straw poll taken by so-called "godly" men. These are the same people who try to tell me that the death of my close loved on is "Part of God's Plan", that my losses and suffering are all "In God's Hands". Then, when it comes to my children, feel that they can write off all of the Good works God is doing in their lives, long before the fruit ever appears. I find it discouraging that the people who are called by his name have no ability to see his handiwork, and judge his work as a failure before it is even complete. Many of the finest Christians I know made the transition to life everlasting because of the teaching of youth ministry. Some people have only accepted the invitation to visit a church because of what it offered their children, and have been drawn into the congregation from this venue.

Never underestimate what God is doing in his ministries. You don't know the end of the story, he does. So you either need to trust that he is God, and knows what he is doing, or decide you are smarter than he is, and do it all under your own power. I will not judge you if that is your decision…but I will not feel sorry for you either.

Susan

So beautifully said . . .
Dionesius3

Toddi says-"Never underestimate what God is doing in his ministries. You don't know the end of the story, he does. So you either need to trust that he is God, and knows what he is doing, or decide you are smarter than he is, and do it all under your own power. I will not judge you if that is your decision…but I will not feel sorry for you either. "

I don't underestimate what God is doing, I question whether God has ANYTHING whatsoever to do with most of what you call MINISTRIES. Look at Scripture, there is no office of "Youth Minister", "Senior Pastor", "Music Minister", "Sunday School Teacher", "Minister of Education", "Children's Minister", or a whole HOST of other terms you find all over the "modern" church. Denominations, and religions in general tend to build structures to preserve themselves and to consolidate power and influence into the hands of the few.
That is what I disagree with, and that is at the heart of the problem that all churches are facing today. Start proclaiming the "whole truth" and get those lazy sheep out of their comfort zone of taking up space in a pew, and get them doing some real "ministry" out in the world. We entertain, comfort, reassure, and bless, but God forbid we should pronounce God's word on the issue.
- Vladimir
  
  Thank you, Dionesius3, for calling out the assumption that all these ministries are of God. Without folks like you, this assuimption would calcify into conventional wisdom and then into accepted truth.