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osteen

Joel Osteen says Romney is a Christian

Famed pastor Joel Osteen reiterated his position that Mitt Romney is a Christian on Tuesday, saying as long as the likely GOP presidential nominee believes that Jesus is the Son of God then he subscribes to the Christian faith.

"When I hear Mitt Romney say that he believes that Jesus is the Son of God–that he's the Christ, raised from the dead, that he's his Savior–that's good enough for me," Osteen said in an interview to air on CNN's "The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer."

While Osteen described the Mormon faith as "not traditional Christianity," he said he believes Mormons fall under the Christian tent.

"Mormonism is a little different, but I still see them as brothers in Christ," the pastor argued.

Romney's faith has largely remained an outlier in this presidential cycle, though some have expressed skepticism at the likely Republican nominee's religious views.

Continue reading at politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com
 
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  • Dora

    Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. Of course Mormons are Christians.

    • Winston

      Dora, either you are a member of the Mormon cult, or you are just as ignorant about Biblical Christianity as the next apostate. Neither Romney or Osteen are Christians.

      • KD

        True, very true, Winston.

      • Casper777

        May I say that I find it demeaning regarding the hatefull comments made by one 'Christian sect' against another 'Christian sect/religion' of 'believers'. Makes me wonder if we all are going to Hades?

        Should you study the history of man, there is one 'common beginning' for the Jewish, Catholic, Christian, Muslim and Mormon religions: The God of Abraham of the Old Testament. Another common element are the Ten Commandments. From there the 'influence of man' creeps in.

        Bottom line is after all of the writings, and preachings, we really don't know who/what God is, what Heaven is and what/where is Hell? Maybe we could not understand, maybe we would. It would seem reasonable for a God and Angles to make their presence known as humanity grows in knowledge. Mormons have a belief of 'Latter Day Saints', Catholics have a Pope and bestow 'Sainthood', 'radical Islam' just kills innocent humans of their own religion or "infidels" (other religions).

        Bottom line: God Bless America – we sure need it . . . . . . .

        • steve

          Casper obviously was out that day for Theology 101. If we don't know who God is, we are in biiiiiig trouble. He is certainly not allah (or, I say alvin or allan, but I digress). Latter Day saints are NOT Christians—their 'Jesus' is the brother of satan. So, Casp, old boy, I suggest going back to Sunday School,or someplace where you can get some good Biblical teaching, instead of this broad ecumenism garbage

        • Clyde McPhatter

          Casper, you're obviously some sort of ghost alright…but it "ain't the Holy Ghost" who has enlightened YOU! Just because the faiths of Jews, Christians and Muslims can claim Abraham as a common ancestor/partriarch, by no means does that imply the faiths have anything more in common than that! And by redefining what G*d means to any of these faiths one can easily see how convincingly different they truly are. Only a misdirected and ignorant person will lay a claim that WE ALL believe in the same G*d. The Jews and the Muslims share one important issue in common…BOTH reject Jesus the Christ as G*d in the flesh. So if they both do not recognize G*d Himself, as a Bible-believing Christian does, then they are lost and not in accordance to G*d's own directive, to accept Him as the only intercessor and means of salvation. You Sir, are lost in your belief.

        • Winston

          The Bible teaches sincere Biblical Christians to NOT be "man-followers" which both, Mormonism and Islam are. And, both cult manmade religions are more of a example of Nicolaitanism which Jesus denounces and warns against. Study and be approved. Just this week my own irrigation worker told me that he was "Christian" but did believer there are many ways getting to God, but he's confused due to his personal indoctrination into other world religions by reading their so-called "holy books". Even Jesus said, "I am the (only) way to the Father" (paraphrased), so believing otherwise is apostate belief.

      • steve

        You got it, Winston. Dora is an illiterate

        • Winston

          No, I did NOT say Dora was "illiterate", but I did say she was "ignorant" of Biblical truth. A huge difference. Many professed "believers" fail themselves in having full knowledge, wisdom, and truth by not following the Acts 17:11 example of the Bereans… they just believe what they're told from the pulpit or sunday school teacher and there's much deception coming out of both.

    • Linda F.

      Christians believe in the true Jesus, who is the one and only Son of God the Father; who is *not* the brother of the greatest traitor in history. Our Jesus, the true Jesus, was not conceived through a sexual union between God the Father and Mary; His mother was a virgin when she conceived Him, and she was a virgin when she gave birth to Him.

      Mormons believe in a different Jesus. They believe in a Jesus who is Lucifer's brother; a Jesus who was conceived through a sexual union between God the Father and Mary.

      By the way, I know this is what the Mormons believe because my cousin is a Mormon and she *told* me that she had been taught to believe these things!

      Doesn't sound like the Mormon church is a Christian church to me, Dora.

    • Evermyrtle

      Ministers of the gospel need to be very careful how they speak about all matters, about what they promote. If the Mormons teach that JESUS CHRIST is a prophet and do not teach that "HE IS THE SON OF GOD," they are in error and to promote them in any way is wrong. I do not know what they say about JESUS for a fact and I will not say they are Christians on non Christians, that would be unfair.

      To say they are Christians and do not believe that he is "THE SON OF GOD" is lying and promoting a lie. In the past I was able to find what they believed and they said HE is or was a Prophet of GOD, only, as well as I can remember. If Joel has the source of proof that they know that "JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD," please share it, The Mormons have not shared it.

      Look it up on the internet?Try that and tell the rest of us. I did that and found not a single clue that they believe that JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD. So Joel be careful what you say. You will be responsible for every truth and every lie that you tell.

      • Despeville

        I will not say they are Christians on non Christians, that would be unfair. "

        You are hopelessly confused Seventh Day Adventist. The only way to utter such a statement as you just did is to not really know the Gospel which you do not.

        • Jackie Barnes

          Obviously you don't know the word of God, if you don't accept Jesus as the Son of the living God as your personal Savior and follow his teachings you are not a Christian. and the Mormon Religion Does NOT teach the above!

          • Despeville

            Hmm, could you show me where is this "accepting of Jesus" by men in the Word of God? For all I see in the Word is REPENT and BELIVE as in Mark 1:15 and that is not the same as "accepting"… Also it is not so much about you knowing Jesus but about Jesus knowing you as He states Himself in Matthew 7::23

          • Evermyrtle

            Golly, looks like the tree is wilting!!

          • Despeville

            Do you ever address the topic?

          • Evermurtle

            The topic is the tree, the tree is wilting along with the fact is life that the tree follows good or bad. Which one is it??

          • NavyBugchaser

            How about taking a look at Romans 10:9. Better still, let me quote if form the NKJV "…that if you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Verse 10 goes on to say, "For with the heart one believe to righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made to salvation." Perhaps, accepting of Jesus may not be written in the Word as we understand it, however, the implicaton of doing the same is implied. How can one believe in someone if they do not accept them?

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            "because if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and thus has righteousness and with the mouth one confesses and thus has salvation. "
            ~ Romans 10:9 – 10 NET

            This text is DESCRIPTIVE and not PRESCRIPTIVE. That means it describes what a saved person does and does not prescribe what to do to be truly saved. This is especially visible in verse 10…

            'Perhaps, accepting of Jesus may not be written in the Word as we understand it, however, the implicaton of doing the same is implied"

            Nope, what is implied there is what is all over the Bible which is this:

            "He said, “The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the gospel!”
            ~ Mark 1:15 NET

          • NavyBugchaser

            And what is the Gospel? It is that man is lost in their sins and are doomed to spend eternity in Hell, but God so loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son, that whosever will believe on Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life." Jesus came to save sinful men and I am one of the chiefest. Believing involves more than a head knowledge, for even Satan has head knowledge of who Christ is and eve n believing it is not seriously enough, because you can believe it without being transformed. It is in accepting the fact as truth that you need to embrace and surrender to, that allows the belief to be the pivotal point of salvation. The Holy Spirit must cause a conviction in your heart to make you realize that you are about to bust Hell wide open, unless you repent and be saved. Repentence of your sins and asking Christ into your heart to be your Lord and Saviour is a must.

          • Despeville

            Wowowwow, you moved to a general description of the Gospel which is true but I have asked you for a specific biblical proof for your "accepting" or "decisional salvation" and this you cannot provide… Do not try to change subject or go from specific to more broad to cover up that you simply cannot provide a single verse from the Bible for your "accepting"… Please do not tell me about repentance. If you can look up this is what I have been saying all along but your asking Christ into your heart" is not a synonym for "believe" and you will not find that in the Word either. So can you stay on the topic and not evade any more?

          • NavyBugchaser

            2000 years the meanings of words have changed. Back in the Old Testament times and probably early Church age, it was not the heart, but the kidneys that was considered the seat of the personality and affection. I sort of think I would rather Have Christ in my Heart than in my Kidneys! But be that as it may, what difference whether or not we use the term of accepting Jesus into our Heart or to state that we believe and therefore we are saved. I doubt seriously if God will have two lines, one for the Accepting Jesus in their heart line and the one for just believing Jesus to be saved line.

          • NavyBugchaser

            The fact of the matter, there will be two judgments, The first judgment will be when God takes His church out of the world and believers will be judged for their actions as believers and receive rewards depending on those works. That is the judgment you want to be part of. The other one is the Great White Throne judgment. This is the one that you don't want to be part of. There will not be any saved people in this judgement. This judgment will be to determine the punishment level you will receive, and yes there are different levels of punishment-all horribly bad.

          • NavyBugchaser

            SO, the issue is whether or not you Accept Jesus into your heart as Lord and Saviour, or you believe that He died and saved you from your sins may be moot. To me, I find just saying I believe in Jesus and that;s enough really is not adequate, but whatever. The point is whatever you do with Jesus, you best make sure that you are really right with Him and that He has taken away your sins, and that means making it personal, not just a generic I believe He died for my sins and then go out and contiually live like the devil. If that is what you think, I hate to bust your bubble but you are paddling your canoe to a very dangerous waterfall that may take to Hell.

          • Despeville

            Sorry but this does not follow at all. We actually do know semantic domains of these words from the texts and how they were used. It does all the difference in the world because if you say that "you accepted" you actually claim something to yourself in salvation. No matter how minuscule that is in your perception. Furthermore you making this "accepting" realistically gives you a reason to boast over the one who did not "accepted" even if you think that you do not boast. That is simply different from what is presented in the Gospel. I continue to observe that you cannot produce one single verse for "accepting" nor for "inviting Jesus into your heart"…

          • Sonny Magoo

            OK ..accepting Jesus for who He claimed to be, and what He did.. Is that better?

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            No, it is not for it is not the same as Biblical command of REPENT and BELIEVE. You can allegorize this man made euphemism all you want but you will not find it in the Bible. What you will find is REPENT and BELIEVE and this is not the same.

        • Evermyrtle

          Des…I believe that you made a comment directed at me, last week, saying that you do not call people names.

          Seveneth Day Adventest,?? It that what you are calling em? If not, what do you mean by it. At least it is a nice name. They do believe that "JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD!".

          Are you claiming that you know the gospel??
          Are you familiar with Matt. 7:16-20

          Matt7: 16. You shall know them by their fruits; Do men gather grapes of thorns,or figs of thistles?
          17. Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit. but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit.
          18. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
          19. Every tree that brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
          20. Wherefore, by their fruits you shall know them.
          I am just assuming that you know these trees represent the fruit that humans bare. We can't always do the right thing but deliberate sin is b b b a a a d d d. Try a little harder.

          Have a great day, Des……

          • Despeville

            I discussed your specific statement about Mormonism in which you intentionally blur vast differences between this cult and true Gospel. If anything that is a "fruit" Sir and resulting from you being in Seventh Day Adventists which is also a cult. You calling discernment of lies of Mormonism "unfair" is that fruit Sir that you are trying to slap on me by your misapplication and abuse of above Scriptures.

          • Evermyrtle

            You are simply too easy to get "blurred!" I am sorry about that. By the way, why do you hate the Seveneth Day Adventist? I mean, after all, GOD give us all the right to believe as they see a fact or non-fact. Did one of them do something to you? If they did blame the person not the Church.

            Do you hate me, too or are you just trying to get me straightened out? Why do I ask? Because you call me on 95% of my comments. Why? You cannot stand to read something someone writes that makes sense?

          • Despeville

            For a man of your age you are being really silly. You pretend to psychoanalyze me and assert "hate" and not deal with your Mormonism condoning statement… How typical. You do not make much sense as evident in your evasions and I do not "hate" you as you are fooling yourself with. 7th Day Adventists are just as much of a cult as Mormonism is and this is precisely why you cannot see the difference for you come from that cult. After all your 7th Day Adventist "Jesus" is not Jesus at all but Michael the Archangel as in Jehovah Witnesses cult.

          • steve

            Well, I have some news for you, Myrt: the original teaching of the SDA Church is that Jesus is Michael the Archangel. And, that teaching still appears in some of their books today.

          • Evermyrtle

            That is the first time that I have ever heard that one. I will try to check it out but will not believe it unless I discover that it is true, myself. So many lies can get started "at the drop of a hat"

            I am not a Seveneth Day Adventist, but believe in being fair and not condemning on somebody's say so.

            that is the first time I have ever heart that

          • Despeville

            That is the first time that I have ever heard that one"

            Really, you must have been really unobservant and spaced minded 7th Day Adventist.

            I am not a Seveneth Day Adventist, but believe in being fair and not condemning on somebody's say so. "

            So check it for yourself if you truly did not know… and after confirming that you will still be not "condemning"?

        • Linda F.

          Try using her name next time, Despeville. If you don't know what her name is, find out.

          • Despeville

            I am sorry who are you talking about now?

    • bighoss

      Mormons believe that a Mormon man can "progress" to a point where he can be a god over his own world, similar to the God of the Bible, and that a Mormon man who progresses to that stage of spiritual superiority will have many wives with whom he will physically copulate to produce myriads of offspring to populate his domain. That kind of heretical inanity defiles the concept of godhood set forth in the Bible and the Mormon "prophets" who have propagated such blasphemous nonsense will find themselves in a place that makes global warming seem downright frigid.

      • Despeville

        Hey but they get those plushy temples with secret rooms. Ain't that cool? :)

    • George

      They also think that they will be as God is where do you find that in the N.T.?

      • RightWingBill

        Make it up as you go, whatever sounds good! Whatever Satan told Joe Smith, he sucked right into instead of giving what he was told THE BIBLICAL TEST! #1 Does it conflict with what is written in the bible/God's word? BINGO! It it conflicts…It's from Satan…a false religion. End of story!

    • Despeville

      Is Mormonism Christian?

      Concise and substantiated answer in 8 minutes of video:
      http://youtu.be/y2hN9pgpyao

    • sherman

      Wow you should really look into what you just said about mormons.they believe jesus and satan our brouthers and that God started out as a man.really…..

    • RightWingBill

      Only "lower order" Mormons and those brainwashed by them think they are Christians!
      Christian=Christ is the only Savior and the ONLY way to Heaven – thru Him, He has the keys.
      Mormons=Christ WAS a good teacher but not God!
      You cannot be a REAL Christian and believe that Christ is not God! The Trinity! PERIOD End of story…simple as that. THEY can call themselves anything but that doesn't make it true nor right! BNot believing this does not make it any less true!

    • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

      Mormon's "christ" is a much true Christ as Donald Duck is…

      • Scrooge McDuck

        Please don't disrepect my choice of comic books. I rather enjoy the duck. ; )

    • Scrooge McDuck

      Okay Dora the Explorer…go back to Christianity 101 and repeat it, you've failed! You're a NO-GO! You need to understand what Christianity is, how to become a Christian and heed the message. Mormonism is a works-righteousness religion. Jesus may be called a Savior, but to Mormons that means small "s"…savior. They DO NOT believe in Jesus the Christ in any orthodox meaning. In fact, Mormonism re-defines all the major terminology of Christianity to fit their version of historical events in the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price and their Doctrines and Covenants. There are plenty of illustrative books on this cult, but I recommend Walter Martin's Kingdom of the Cults, for a starter.

    • Ernest

      Dora; You should not be so concerned with the theatrics and the meladrama of "who said what" in this last hour before the latter rain . You do not want to be linked with the "new and better you" crowd. God has no respect of persons. Not Joel or anyone else who exalts themselves in this world; within Church, politics or government, or finances. It`s YOUR CHOICE. For your sake, for your joys sake do not be a part of the multitude who fall away from the true faith. And if you do not know what that is just ask the LORD himself to reveal himself to you every time you read HIS WORD: not Joel Osteens or any other mans dispensation of it….Be Blessed………Shalom…..Ernest

    • Paul

      In Mormonism, Jesus is a creation, the product of relations between god and his goddess wife who used to be people from another world (McConkie, Bruce, Mormon Doctrine, p. 192, 321, 516, 589). Jesus is the literal spirit brother of the devil and of you and I (McConkie, p. 192, 589). Also, in Mormon theology, God has a body of flesh and bones (Doctrine & Covenants 130:22) as does his wife and together they produce spirit offspring in heaven who inhabit human bodies on earth.

      They may believe in a Jesus, but it's not the Jesus of the Bible as the Holy Spirit revealed Him.

  • Richard

    Dora
    Are you crazy? Where did you get your definition of a real Christian? In any case what does Joel Osteen know about Christianity? Not much if he makes such an asinine statement.

    • Paul Woodward

      Richard……You, also, probably believe that Allah is the same as God! That's like checkin' on your hamburgers, after they're already burned!! What's the matter with you? Do some research, before you open your mouth. WAKE UP AND GROW UP, KIDDO!!!………..

      • Linda F.

        What do you base your accusation on, Paul? Do you know for certain that Richard believes that Allah and the one true God are the same? If you're going to accuse someone, you should provide some facts first. Otherwise, keep your mouth shut.

      • Evermyrtle

        Since the very beginning there has been one "TRUE GOD" and many false gods, Allah is the name of one of those false gods. So they are not lying is calling Allah God, the lie is in saying he is the same god as our GOD. He is not. What their god tells them is entirely different from what our GOD tells us.

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          Evermyrtle, what your god tells you is also different than what the Jewish god tell the Jews, yet I suspect you would say that you and the Jews worship the same god.

    • flip

      Amen Richard

    • Paul Woodward

      Richard………You, also, probably believe Allah is the same as God! That's like checkin' on your hamburgers, after they're already burned! Do some research, before opening your mouth. Wake up and grow up, kiddo!!……………

      • Matt Holm

        YOU are deficient if you accept Osteen as the arbiter of anything Scriptural. He couldn't even quote Scripture to support his superficial "Good News" ministry when interviewed on Larry King Live. In addition, he told King that he has no idea who's going to Heaven and who's going to Hell. WHO ordained this idiot?

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          Who ordained anyone pretending that the bible is a source of all knowledge? People that pretend the bible has actual meaning.

    • Jerry

      Anyone that makes an effort to support Barry has been threatened,and,or,paid off,and Joel ain`t no exception.
      I put him in the same class as Jim,and Tami Baker…thousands of prayer request found in dumpster(s).

      • HadEnuf

        Joel is as phony as Obama! They are both wolves in sheep's clothing. False prophets, the both of them.

        • Donna

          Agree

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          Then why are you not out trying to kill them as your god demands of false prophets?

          If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

    • ponchydad

      My take, Richard, is that Joel never met a relatively wealthy person, mormon or not, that "he" didn't accept as Christian. His main goal, in my opinion, is to further feather his nest and his social gospel. The bigger the tent, the bigger the "take". Mormonism is simply a cult and we could very well have a cultist in the white house next year. Could he be a bigger "abomination" than what we have now? Only the one true God knows that for sure. I still have hopes that Allen West will be nominated at the convention. Am I crazy or what!

      • Jackie Barnes

        You aren't Crazy

        • bighoss

          He IS crazy if he really believes that extremist cluck, Alan West, has any chance whatsoever of getting the Republican nomination. We know that there are MANY crazy Republicans, but there are not enough of them who are crazy enough to do a thing as crazy as nominating West.

      • Evermyrtle

        Matt. 22:14 Fro many are called but few are chosen.

        Nobody is a Christian if the only thing you have to go on, is the statement. You have first of all, know that ,"JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD." Then the tree must bare good fruit, not only in word but in deed, also.

        • Despeville

          and he or she must obey and fulfill all these mosaic customs you have learned about while at 7th Day Adventists, right?

          • Evermyrtle

            That Seveneth Advent Christian Church is really doing you in, isn't it.? That church is a lot like any other church, imperfect!!! If I am wrong and you can name a perfect modern church run by humans, please tell me it's name!!!

          • Despeville

            7th Day Adventists "Jesus" is not Jesus of the BIble but Archangel Michael as they teach. Nor is their "gospel" a saving Gospel and if you hold to these lies you are damned. Period.

    • mesaman

      Sorry, Poor Richard, but you are the one nominated to be the village idiot. Joel Osteen is a religious patriot and even your blind, paganistic attitude will not change it.

    • Despeville

      Is Mormonism Christian?

      Concise and substantiated answer in 8 minutes of video: http://youtu.be/y2hN9pgpyao

    • Teri

      The demons believe that and they certainly are NOT Christian! Mormonism is NOT a Christian religion and him saying so clearly shows me that he is no one I will ever listen to on the subject!

    • Matt Holm

      Right you are Richard! In an interview with Larry King, Osteen failed to cite Scripture to support his "Good News" Ministry, and admitted he has no idea who's going to be saved, who's going to Heaven, and who's going to Hell.

      Although he went to a Christian Theological college, his major field of study was Commercial Broadcasting. I'd like to know WHO ordained him?

      • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

        He does not need Scripture for these folks he is herding and milking. All he needs is his smile. As far as I know he did not go to any seminary or college whatsoever.

        • Matt Holm

          According to the bio that appears on Wikipedia:

          "It has been widely reported that Osteen attended Oral Roberts University in Tulsa, Oklahoma, for a two year period without receiving a degree. Likewise, it has been reported that he has no higher level training in religious matters or Bible studies. In an appearance on Piers Morgan Tonight in January, 2011, Osteen mentioned that he had never attended seminary."

        • Donna

          agree!

    • Psydoc

      I guess you are the expert that everyone should listen to about Mormon's then. Have you ever attended an Mormon service? You should probably go back to church and take a lesson about what a christian is.

  • agbjr

    If you accept Jesus Christ as your Risen Lord and Savior you are a Christian … no further discussion is necessary. It does not matter what doctrine you follow nor what manner you worship as long as you follow the teachings of Christ. Latter Day Saint, Roman Catholic, Presbyterian, Baptist, Episcopal, Seventh Day Adventist, Methodist, Congregationalist … ALL Christians and ALL one in Christ.

    Now, put an end to this un-American concentration on religious differences fomented by the leftist media and get on with the work of electing a government that upholds and abides the Constitution.

    • Winston

      Which "Jesus" do you believe in?

    • Linda F.

      I have one thing to say to you in response to your un-Biblical stance, agbjr. Actually, it's something Jesus Himself said. Hopefully, it will get through to you and help you to realize that it is possible for a person to put their faith in the *wrong* Jesus, and that that path is a dangerous one to take.

      “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘Look, He is there!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand. (Mark 13:21-23)

      • agbjr

        Please do not attempt to interpret biblical theology or what you deem to be misplaced faith … I am an ordained Presbyterian Elder. Those who accept the teachings of Jesus and embrace the Risen Christ as their Lord and Savior are Christians

        • steve

          Oh brother! Ag is here representing the ecumaniacs. We are all one, right, Ag? FUHGEDDABOUDDIT!!!!!!!! Far as your being an ordained Presbyterian elder: that, plus $2.50 will get you on the subway.

          • Pastor Dwayne

            Ag represents a church that I feel Rev. 3 : 1 is talking about ""And to the angel of the church of Sardis write: These things says he who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: I know your works; you have a name that you are alive and yet you are dead. Most if not all Reformation churches are in the church of Sardis ! And even a few Pentecostal churches.

          • Despeville

            You have no idea what are you talking about nor have you read anything from Reformers.

          • Pastor Dwayne

            I do have an idea about reformed churches ! There is no doubt when they first started with Calvin and Luther, the churches of Presbyterian , Lutheran and Methodist were on fire , They had a name that they were alive . I have been in all three of these churches , a Weslian sp Methodist church as late as 3 months ago. There is nothing but death in all these churches . But just like Sardis there is some who have not spoiled there garments.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            :) The more you speak the more you testify to your ignorance… Methodists have nothing to do with Reformed Churches. Presbyterians and Lutherans are a mixed bag. Some stayed faithful some sold out and strictly speaking Lutherans are not Reformed either. Besides your "experience" is not a qualifier for anything. Their statements of faith is. You have the same erroneous approach to the Bible where you and "Holy Spirit" are reinventing the faith all over again in your bedroom or office… When are you going to address massive wholes in your understanding of the Church and its history?

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            "holes" :)

          • Pastor Dwayne

            There is a lot of statements of faith out there, and most are hogwash

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            How is that addressing the points I have made? It does not… There is also lot of churches without any statement of faith and a bogus statement of "deeds but no creeds".

          • Pastor Dwayne

            Granted the Methodists had nothing to do with reformed , however 150 years ago they were closer to the new Testament churches than the reformed. They made today's Pentecostal churches look sick.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            Most Pentecostal churches are sick and misguided where "pastors" preach mostly about themselves and their life experiences and sprinkle Christ or his bastardized version here and there in their "sermons" where they they allegorize Scripture according to what movie they saw last week or news of the day while the congregation gets high on emotions and sensationalism and where very few have any clue how a sinner is truly justified before Holy GOD.

          • Pastor Dwayne

            At least they get high on emotions and sensationalism, kinda hard to do that in reformed churches that have a name of being dead!!!! Verse 2 of Rev 3 starts off with "AWAKE"

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            If getting high on emotions and sensationalism is the goal (I feel for your people) then might as well go to a rock concert… And Revelation 3:2 says γρηγορέω grēgoreō – WATCH and that is by far way more purposeful and specific than your "awake" What translation are you using? It is consistently imprecise. Yes be watchful for men getting high on their emotions and not on the truth of God.

          • Pastor Dwayne

            The translation I use is better than your Greek freak , it is the original Aramaic and never changed for 1900 years and then only into English

          • Pastor Dwayne

            And Dez. one thing I know for a fact , you know nothing about the Holy Ghost and His anointing

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            Did you get a memo from heaven? Or is it because I do not cause mini earthquakes like you? :) You are a presumptuous buffoon high on yourself and low on God and His truth…

          • Pastor Dwayne

            No, I got my memo from the Word of God , it is a wonderful book you aught to read it sometime! People like you who are not Born again by God's standards wouldn't have a clue. All they can do is name calling.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            Hmmm, there is only one entity I know that is so interested in denying other peoples faith so a priori and that is satan whom you serve with your powerless "god" and fake "gospel".

          • Pastor Dwayne

            Powerless "god"…… When was the last time "you" laid hands on the sick and they were healed, When is the last time "you" pointed a finger at a person and cast out a demon, through "your" Powerful 'GOD"
            Will you answer that, or will you do as in all your posts , rant and rave at the other person , call them your family names , question their I Q , question their qualifications !!!!!
            Know this, There is only one predestination , " to be conformed to the image of Christ" your false doctrine , has led you into the next false doctrine , and I will call it for what it is ((( Replacement "Theory" ))))) ! Which leads to the false doctrine of the Church Going Through The Tribulation…..I am done with FOOLISHNESS, which is you and the sect you are in that is trying to be just a little itty bitty corner of Christiandom .Remember , you had a "name", CALVINISM, that you were alive, but are dead………….. Good day sir

          • Despeville

            "god" who tries and tries and tries to save "all" yet fails because all powerful men tell him "no" is not God at all but a bastardized idol nor it is a Gospel that teaches that. Satan does many copy cat miracles and you apart of the truth have absolutely no assurance that your imagined miracles are from true God because what you believe and teach is not true God but men centered idolatry. Look at Benny Hinn, exactly same principle applies.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            Original Aramaic???? I pray you do share this major discovery that the world of Christian Scholars is not aware of… Where did you find this major manuscript discovery? Somewhere in Texas? Wow.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            Goofball, in case you do not know we do not have originals. We do not have autographs. There is not even one real true Aramaic manuscript dated earlier than Th century. You are a poster boy for dangerous ignorance.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            earlier than 5th century and Peshitta is a COPY from 5th century and not "originals" for crying out loud. You should be defrocked and immediately.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Yes, that is true. A fact I have mentioned many times that you disregarded as meaningless. Yet, now it suddenly becomes important. Humpty, you are the king of absurdity.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            Dixon, you are under informed, confused and foggy in your thinking that is why you assert your absurdity to me. There is plus 350 years of difference in time between earliest copy of Syriac manuscripts popularly known as "Aramaic" under name Peshitta and earliest Greek manuscripts. Peshitta is dated in the fifth century while earliest Greek manuscripts are dated in the beginning of second (So called P52) and just recently a major discovery has been made and announced that a fragment of the Gospel of Mark from FIRST century has been located and dated —> http://www.csntm.org

            Think through before you right your canards please.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Please show where the original gospels are being held, viewed and studied.

          • Despeville

            What part of English words "copy" or "manuscript" you do not understand Dod-xon? Those are really not that hard to use and understand…

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            You are confused between Syriac manuscripts from V century imagined by Dwayne as "originals" and Greek manuscripts from 1st and 2nd century.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            Here read something useful and factual about the book you should have read long ago:
            http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/packer_…

    • NavyBugchaser

      There are basic tenets of faith, Man is a fallen creature, due to the disobedience of Adam and Eve. Man is a sinful being, no matter how small the sin is in our eyes, in God's eyes sin is sin. God cannot look upon sin, that is why Christ felt abandoned on the cross when all of the world's sins was dumped on Him and God had to turn away. Sin must be atoned for, but it requires a sinless sacrifice, otherwise sin must be punished and that punishment means an eternal existance in the devil['s Hell to be tormented night and day, forever. God loves us too much to leave us in such a hopeless state, so He gave His only begotten Son, as our Ransom

      • NavyBugchaser

        for the wages of sin. So, Christ's death on the cross satisfied the requirement that sin be atoned for and it is an OPEN FREE GIFT for all who will believe. And in order to receive this gift, one has to acknowledge that they are a sinner, that without an atonement they are destined to spend eternity in Hell, that Christ came to pay the price for our sins and to give us the possibility to spend eternity with Him in Heaven, and then we must accept that gift. God will not force His will on anyone. God does NOT send anyone to Hell, If you go there, it is by your own volition in rejecting the free gift that has been provided for you. In other words, you paddle your own boat to Hell and God has done all He can do to prevent it from happening, but you have to surrender your will to Him.

        • NavyBugchaser

          Any other teaching besides these tenets of faith is man's teaching and not necessarily in alignment with God's will. If any religious group adds any other requirments to the basic tenets of faith and state that these are required for you to get into Heaven, has committed error which could be fatal to the precious souls of those entrapped by these tenets. There are other things that we do, such as the Lord's Supper and baptism that should be done, but if you don;'t do them they won't necessarily condemn you to Hell. After all, the thief on the cross beside Christ never got baptised or had communion, but Christ still said that he would be with Him, that day, in Paradise.

          • bighoss

            Old stale argument, Bug. The thief on the cross lived and died under the Law of Moses. Jesus was still alive when He promised that thief that he would be in Paradise. Jesus having not yet died at that time, His death could not yet have ushered in the Christian era and the role of New Testament baptism. Just a few days later, on the Day of Pentecost A.D. 33, when the apostle Peter preached the first gospel sermon ever, there were anguished lost souls in his audience who were "pricked in their hearts" (Acts 2:37) because of their sins. They asked, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" Did that apostle, speaking under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, tell those sinners to "Accept Jesus as your personal savior and invite Him into your heart"? No he did not. They already BELIEVED what Peter had preached concerning the nature of Jesus and his mission to redeem lost souls. But there was something else they needed to do. Peter told them what all too many modern-day preachers and teachers will NOT tell lost sinners. He said, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins."(Acts 2:38). Why are there so many today who will not answer the needs of lost sinners with those same words? Is baptism too much of an inconvenience for them?

            Read Romans 6:1-10 for more on the purpose of baptism. And do NOT try to avoid the powerful teaching of that passage with the facile notion that it is speaking only in symbolic terms. Nothing in the context of that passage or elsewhere teaches that baptism is merely a symbolic act of a salvation that has already happened. That notion is wishful thinking by those who regrettably would diminish the role of baptism to something that Jesus and his apostles never intended.

          • NavyBugchaser

            Bighoss, two things. Under the Mosaic law, there was requirement for an animal sacrifice to occur in order for the sins to be covered. The thief did not get a chance to bring a lamb, ram, goat, bull, or even turtledoves to the priest to have the blood atonement for his sins. So by that angle he would have died in his sins and be lost. Christ was the Passover Lamb offering, once and for all, and His blood had already been spilled out. Consider that the scourging that He received by the Romans often killed the victim, alone. The blood that still was pouring out of His body by the crown of thorns and the naisl piercing His flesh was doing their efficacious work. Remember, even before His crucifixtion, the number of times He told people that their sins have been forgiven, and this even before His blood covered our sins. And besides, if God is next to you, when you are dying, and He tells you straightout that this day you will be with Him in Paradise, I think you can take that to the bank, regardless of which Testament you are observing.

    • Matt Holm

      To my complete satisfaction, the ONLY candidate now running who supports and upholds and abides the Constitution, is NOT Romney, but rather RON PAUL. Go Ron Paul 2012!!

    • Leah

      To agbjr…

      You and your religion are what I call the loyalist churches to the crown that the founding fathers of this Country had also fought with. These people wanted a king and still be ruled by the British.

      What you say is absolutely incorrect! Its a deceitful Lie of Satan to say what you say that that the Mormons are Christians!
      The Bible makes it clear many will not go to heaven. The road is very narrow! Few will find it! The devil believes in God!
      All true Christians are to be able to discern! The Bible says that you will know them by their fruits!

      Also Joel Olsteen is a lying Liar!!! Stop being deceived. Many a false teacher will be burnig in hell along with his congregations he takes with them over the cliff! Think about that!

    • Robert

      Bravo! I agree 100%. We are free to believe what we will and it is all good and depends upon the route an individual choses and where he is led by his interpretation of what God is.

      • Paul

        Absolutely false. And dangerous.
        Jesus said "The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day."

        You are certainly free to choose whatever you want to believe. However, there is only one Way, one Truth, one Life – Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who offered Himself in our place, the sinless for the sinful, the substitution satisfying the judgement of the law of sin and death.

    • Paul

      Define "Jesus".

      "Jesus" of the LDS is a created being, spirit brother of lucifer

      "Jesus" of the RC is bloodlessly sacrificed daily in the Mass, His death was not enough, since catholics have to go to purgatory when they die to pay for the sins that were not forgiven, His saving grace is not permanent since grace can "wear off" between receiving "sacraments" leaving catholics under at least purgatory and possibly even hell when they die

      The Word discerns them as deceived and deceivers and anyone following and believing the teachings of the Church, which are in opposition to the Word of God are not saved. They have a different "Jesus".

      Seventh Day Adventists who believe in the Jesus that the Bible reveals are probably saved, but it's hard to tell since they still think they need to follow the Law (what they cannot eat because it is "unclean", works to maintain salvation, etc.) In this they would do well to read Galatians and measure themselves against Paul's lovingly administered treatise that Salvation is apart from ceremony and that they must be "bewitched" to believe that "having begun in the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh (keeping the Law)?"

      The tenets of faith of the Presbyterians,Baptists, Episcopals, Methodists (as a denomination) all recognize Jesus as Jehovah God come in the flesh, the sacrifice of substitution that pays for the law of sin and death. However, the acts and lives of some of the church leadership and members – for starters: acceptance of sinful lifestyles among the leaders and ministers, in total opposition and violation of the criteria set down in 1 Timothy and Titus on the selection of elders – may indicate they no longer are walking in the Spirit which should make them worry that when they meet the Lord they will hear "depart from me you workers of iniquity".

      If you read the Word of God, you can never come away with the conclusion that "it doesn't matter what doctrine nor what manner of worship", nor would you think that you can be saved "as long as you follow the teachings of Christ". Repent and believe in THE Jesus, THE Son of God, THE King of Kings, THE Lamb of God. If you do, you will automatically keep His commandments. But you'll never receive salvation by trying to keep His commandments. They are a result of faith, not the cause of it.

  • Jeff Greenberg

    Folks, read up about Mormon doctrine/beliefs before deciding. Their Jesus is not The Jesus, unless you place all Mormons on an equal level with Him.

    • Pastor Dwayne

      Jeff says, Their Jesus is not The Jesus, please, please believe those words Jeff spoke. Look at Gal. 1:8 "But though we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel to you, let him be Accursed" ! the gospel is about Jesus Christ . To my knowledge this is the second time in history that an angel appeared before a man , and gave the man another gospel, another Jesus. Yes the people of the Mormon Church do great things for people , however doing great works without knowing The True Jesus , as the Word says is filthy rags!

  • http://apprivers.com John Griffin

    I belong to a biblically sound denomination that requires its ministers to go through seminary training and strict examination before they can be ordained. Every time Rex Osteen makes the news I cringe and more fully understand the rationale for the requirements for educated pastors!! Shame on Rex!!!

    • Evermyrtle

      Where can you find the absolute truth. I went on the internet and there was so much on there to be more confusing than informing.

      • Despeville
        • Evermyrtle

          Thanks Des….I had no idea that the Mormon Church was mentioned in the Bible. Where in there is it mentioned? I have read it through and through and do not ever remember seeing it mentioned!!!!!!

          • Despeville

            Why do you LIE? I did not say anything of that sort. Nope it is not mentioned and neither is your 7th Day Adventist fake "Jesus" as Michael the Archangel…

          • daves

            I think you are a very sad man.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            I think your thoughts about sad men are sad and troubling…

    • Robert

      Who is REX OSTEEN. Are you speaking of Joel's father?

  • joan

    Mormons are NOT Christians….they do NOT believe in the same JESUS CHRIST of the Bible.
    Anyone saying they are…. is showing an abysmal ignorance.

    • agbjr

      I don't believe myself to be abysmally ignorant especially in theology or I wouldn't be an ordained Presbyterian Elder.

      • Chuck

        It's true that the Jesus they believe in is different than the Christ revealed in scripture. The also deny the trinity and believe that we all are. Christs who will one day rule our own planets as "Jesus" does. Another telling thing is that they don't believe that you're saved unless you are a Mormon. So they don't believe in Christians. They are a cult. Many cults have beliefs in Jezus, that doesn't make them right.

    • Norman

      You are right on Joan. Anyone who thinks Mormans believe in the Christ of the Bible dosen't know much about there cult.

    • mesaman

      Poor old Joan of quark, you will undoubtedly spend the rest of your life being an ignorant, foolish crone.

    • CAROLIN MEADORS

      I am a Mormon and yes, we do believe in the Jesus of the Bible, the New Testament. You people are totally ignorant if you go around saying this stuff. But in the end, we need a president who is not a Muslim, not a communist, and a socialist and believes in the constitution.

      • bighoss

        Your ignorance is glaring if you believe the President to be a Muslim. That silly notion disqualifies you as a rational person and renders your opinions sterile and worthless.

    • Psydoc

      Joan, You have lost your mind. Last I checked there was only one Jesus Christ that died on the cross for our sins. What Jesus Christ do you think the Mormons believe in? The abysmal ignorance that you refer to is coming from you.

  • Katy

    There are a number of religions or sects that will say Jesus is the Son of God, but not all of them believe he is God the Son as well. Some of them believe He is only the human Son of God, and not God Himself in human flesh. The real question is, does Mr. Romney believe that Jesus is also God the Son, second person of the Trinity, God in human flesh? That is the core and center of classical, Biblical Christianity. Jesus is fully God in human flesh, part of the triune-person single Christian Godhead (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). Does Mr. Romney believe that? This is not to be confused with his right to run for president, whether he believes that or not. This is a theological question, not a political one. Also, terms need to be very clearly defined. Mormons and Christians do not interpret the same terms the same way. For example, Christians believe that Jesus's death on the cross was atonement for all sins, and that His blood covers all human sins if we ask for forgiveness. Mormons believe that there are some sins that Jesus's death and shed blood cannot forgive.

    • Smith

      Thank you Katy. People need to research, according to the standard of the Word of God, the Holy Bible, what constitutes being a Christian. Mormonism is a cult. That doesn't mean that Romney is not qualified to be POTUS. (although I wouldn't have chosen him for the nominee) but he is NOT a Christian. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Not only that but does Mr. Romney believe that Christ is the ONLY way to the Father, not through works lest any man should boast.

      • Katy

        What is your opinion of Rick Warren? Is he like Joel Osteen?

    • proud disabled vet

      "Mormons believe that there are some sins that Jesus's death and shed blood cannot forgive." It's teaching like the Mormons is confusing, cause how can Jesus blood wash sins, when they don't acknowledge Him as the Son of God. And this is just it! The Book of Mormons contradicts the Bible is so many ways and what does the Bible say, when words are added or taken away? I know what it says and it would be good for Mormons and those like them FIND OUT BEFORE IT'S TO LATE!
      Kate…see ya in heaven! :)

    • Grumpy Old Man

      The operative word in the book of mormon is that they believe that Jesus is 'A' son of God. All morman men will in time become a god as well. Most mormon's do not even know this doctrinal fact. Understand why they have a practice of baptizing the dead into their fold to populate their world in the after life. Is it necessary for a presidential hopeful to believe in God? I would hope so but not required. Are there Christians in the mormon church probably but they are not temple mormons.

    • Robert

      Does it make any difference what a politician believes? I don't care if they are Atheists as long as they can lead the government and get it back in good economic recovery. We don't have a religious test to see who can run for office.
      That sort of thing means nothing. They can say one thing and truly believe another.
      Think about George Washington…he was an Anglican the precursor to the Episcopal Church in the United States.
      Most of the presidents of the US were Episcopalians. They were also very good presidents. There were several baptists and they were not too great but Clinton who was one of them, knew how to get us out of debt.

  • http://www.missiontoisrael.org Ted R. Weiland

    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us…." (John 1:1, 14)

    :And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh…." (1 Timothy 3:16)

    "For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." (2 John 1:7-11)

    • Eveermyrtle

      Excellent!!!

    • proud disabled vet

      Amen Brother, AMEN!

    • aldotoo

      Not sure what you mean Ted by quoting 2 John. Most trinitarians do not believe Jesus came in the flesh but existed as a spiritual being for thousands of years before his birth, and somehow got into Mary's womb by having sex with the Holy Spirit the third person of the trinity.
      The trinity is false and those who believe it are the antichrist. Read the biblical facts "Fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit" Matt. 1:20 which is the power of God.

      • Evermyrtle

        There are really millions whose minds, are wallowing around in the gutter, is very true. Nobody has to do that unless they want to. Therefore let us ll be careful where we allow our mind to go.

      • Sonny Magoo

        You are in over your head friend. Trinitarians believe John chapter 1 and Genesis chapter 1..can you get a grip on that?
        If you can that more than I can say for me. The "trinity" is only an observation for and from our perspective.

      • bighoss

        The Holy Trinity–as evidenced in scripture, without doubt or question, at the baptism of Jesus. The Holy Spirit descended upon Him like a dove and a voice from Heaven said, "This is my beloved Son." Count them, aldotoo: (1) Jesus + (2) the Holy Spirit + (3) God (that voice from Heaven) = 3 (THREE!). Read Luke 4:21 & 22 and shed your irrational and un-Biblical hostility to the Trinity.

        As for your assertion that, "Most trinitarians do not believe Jesus came in the flesh," do you just pull that stuff out of thin air or what? Because it is simply not true, and your saying that it is does not make it true. Get rational!

  • millergroup2

    Even Satan and his demons believe in Jesus, and tremble.

    James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

  • Christy

    NO they are NOT Christians….their Jesus is a CREATED being, not a part of the God Head..His brother is Satan…also, a Mormon believes that when he dies he will become a god on his own planet….Don't believe that bull crappy that ALL religions are the same if they believe in Jesus…they all "know" Jesus and acknowledge Him but do not believe IN Him….

    • Robert

      Who are you to say LDS members are not Christians? There are more LDS members who follow the commandments than the ordinary person who proclaims themselves to be Christians.
      How silly you are to presume you know the mind of GOD, any God.

  • George

    What is the big concern over Mormons being part of "traditional Christianity"? Presbyterians don't see Evangelicals as part of their tradition. Catholics don't see Protestants as part of their tradition. Some exclusionaries might say Catholics aren't part of New Testament tradition. If toeing the line of tradition were required, none of the more than 450 denominations in the United States would recognize each other as Christians.

  • Tom

    Joel is an existential Elmer Gantry style heretic. For me, Romney is not disqualified to be president because of his Mormonism. But let's not water down the gospel by redefining Christianity.

    • Robert

      Well then we hope you get your wish and our President, President Obama will be re-elected in a landslide.

  • Flip

    Joel Osteen needs to get that smile off his face and get to know the True Jesus Himself, before he makes that statement. He was nothing but a prop man for his dad till his death and then he is trying to feel his dad's shoes. He has no formal training and is not qualify to say who is a Christian and who is not when it come to true salvation.

    • Matt Holm

      Amen Flip!

    • Robert

      You are talking through your hat. Find out what the man really has done with his life and it is remarkable.

  • D Landis

    I would not believe anything Joel O says. He admits he does not know much about theology or the Bible.
    He is a teacher of humanism.
    He would not know a real Christian if there is actually one in his congregation.
    One of the best ways to be misled about God and salvation is listening to Joel O.

    • Matt Holm

      Now, here is someone speaking the Truth!

    • bighoss

      Osteen's success is a consequence of, and is enabled by, widespread Biblical ignorance. Those who dote on this sweet-talking, smiling deceiver would not give him the time of day if they understood what Christ and His church are truly about.

  • Jason

    Ron Paul is the only one running that is out to support the constitution and WE the people. Otherwise its just BIG govt, BIG Labor, BIG Company fluff.

    • KD

      You got that right! Ron Paul '12!

    • Robert

      Ron Paul is a nut and supports abortion etc. As an OB/GYN he has done well over one thousand abortions. Find the record in Texas medical procedures records.

  • D Landis

    George:
    The big deal is that Mormons claim to be Christians but are not. They put Brigham Young, etc. on an equal footing with God's Son Jesus Christ. They do not believe that Jesus saves us by what He did. They believe that they can save themselves by their own works. Jesus paid for our sins by His death. We cannot work off or pay for our sins by good works. The wages of sin is death not good works. Rom 2:23
    Salvation is by Grace (favor we do not deserve) through faith (our trusting in what Jesus did and not what we can do). Salvation is not by works. If it were we would boast about what we did rather than praising Jesus for what He did.
    Mormonism is a cult and not Christian at all.
    That is the big deal.

    • CAROLIN MEADORS

      Hey George, you are totally 100 percent wrong.

    • Robert

      The big deal is that Christianity is also a cult. Every sect in Christianity meets the full definition of a cult.
      Look up the definition.
      So you all belong to a sect in this large ubmrella called Christianity.

  • http://www.nikken.com/artmathews Jackie Mathews

    Mormons on the whole have strong moral and ethical strength. They do believe in Christ. I will not fault them on their belief. Religion does not need to be a factor in the Presidency unless the individual has no religion and wants total power, as the present occupant of the White House. I still believe he is far from being a Christian. Or at the very least he does not practice his faith, except in his care for his family. But even infidels love their families. The last comments are just my frustration with the President. Having said all of that: God will level the playing field. He alone is the judge of the heart. For now, I am asking him to bles us with a new President and I, personally will vote for a monkey or a dog over Barack.

    • steve

      Good politics, Jacks. Bad Theology.

      • bighoss

        Bad theology AND bad politics!

    • Robert

      Another wonderful Christian speaks out in favor of Bigotry!

  • KD

    That seems to be the world's definition of Christian. But that is not the bible's. Olsteen is not a Christian according to Bible standards. Anyone that all-out rejects Christ's teachings in regard to salvation (ie, Mark 16:15&16; Acts 2:38; 22:16; Romans 6, etc, is NOT a christian.

  • msjallen

    No one has the right to say one person is a believer or not; God is the judge. However, according to the Mormon doctrine they do not teach the same Jesus that the Bible teaches. Joel Osteen preaches feel good sermons and promotes the sale of his books. It does not matter who gets elected president as long as most people in America are not willing to learn and do what His Word says. Once We the People are willing to put God first in our lives we will not have a government for the people or by the people.
    Ps 75:5-7 Do not lift up your horn on high; do not speak with insolent pride. For not from the east, nor from the west, nor from the desert comes exaltation; But God is the Judge; He puts down one and exalts another.
    Col 2:10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over ALL rule and authority;

    • Jackie Barnes

      You can know a believer by his testimony if what he preaches or speaks about Gods word(Gods word being (KJV), is not backed up by Gods word then he is not a Christian , but is a False profit.

      • Despeville

        False profit is bad for business that is for sure. Would you shows us from the Bible where private testimony of the person is a qualifier for saving faith. All I can see is confession of sins and sinful nature and placing complete trust in Christ and His righteousness as in Mark 1:15. Perhaps I missed it so I would like to learn and correct that. Please present the case for private testimony as a sure sign of saving faith from the Word.

    • Winston

      You err in your knowledge because the Bible is clear on the fact that believers are to "test the spirits" of those who say they are Christian but evidence in their beliefs are otherwise.

      • msjallen

        The Greek word for try is “dokimazo” and means to prove, to test, or to examine. The Greek word for spirit is “pneuma” and is referring to persons or personalities. The false prophets are apostate false teachers and are those who reject or distort the truth of the Word of God for selfish motives. These teachers are called false, which is the Greek word “pseduo”. They represent themselves as true in order to gain entrance into a ministry. II Peter 2 says they come in covertly, like a spy would infiltrate an organization. We know these false teachers are unbelievers from certain words in the context, such as “destruction.” Destruction is the Greek word “apoleia” and it means eternal destruction or eternal separation from God. Some of these unbelieving teachers deny the deity of Christ and deny the saving power of the Gospel.

      • msjallen

        These false teachers have deliberate motives, which include monetary greed, sensual pleasures, luxurious lifestyles, power, and fame. They actually train themselves in the art of greed and lust. The Bible says that they use fabricated words of flattery with promises of prosperity in order to extort money and material possessions. They are members of the “mutual admiration society”, pretending to admire certain people in order to gain acceptance. They literally make merchandise (the Greek word “emporeuomai”) of the unsuspecting, unstable, spiritually weak believer.
        We do not have the right to judge whether one is a believer or not; they may be in reversionism (some call it backsliding) but we do know when those that teach false doctrine are wrong if we know what the Bible teaches.

  • NavyBugchaser

    Perhaps if the Dalai Lama would say that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, maybe Olsteen would think of him as a Christian, too. Even the demons acknowledged that Jesus was the Holy One, but that certainly does not make them Christian by any stretch of the imagination. Compare what the Mormon Church teaches to true Biblical Scriptures and you will see that Mormonism falls short by about a mile. It is a works religion and there are teachings that are blasphemous, such as Christ and Satan being brothers. Anybody in their right mind should know that the Son of God, who is very God Himself, is no relation to the devil, who is a created being and was once a good being. There are many doctrinal teachings of mormonism that just don't hold water when compared to true Christianity.

    • Esteban Cafe

      Sir, works seems to be a problem for you. Perhaps we should throw out the Book of James? Works are the result of one's faith, standing in evidence of it. We should be careful as to what we consider "works" in others. Paul and James are NOT in conflict, but compliment each other, as does all scripture.

      Blind works, which I think you're referring to, are indeed empty (think repetative prayers, etc).

      But I would prefer such a 'blind' but nice, kind and generous neighbor rather than my Evangelical "Saved" neighbor who violates 8 of the 10 commandments, giving a poor example to all. But who knows…maybe he loves the Lord with all his heart, might, mind, strength…but his works do not indicate such. Works are "evidence" according to James. We will actually DO something good because we're a new creature under Christ–we cannot help it.

      Maybe we need to look internally, looking to bring ourselves into alignment with God's commandments–which make us more Christlike.

      • NavyBugchaser

        Esteban Cafe, you cannot have works only and expect to go to Heaven. Both Old and New Testaments states that all our righteousness is as filty (read dirty diapers) rags. That there is none righteous, not even one. The only righteous person that ever walked amongst us is Christ. You need to understand that works alone cannot save you. It is faith alone in Christ that is our only hope of salvation. Works are IMPORTANT, but not able to save one. That is why we are not under the Law but under Grace. If you look at Ephesians 2:8-9, the Apostle Paul made it clear that we are only saved by the Grace given to us by God and that we cannot earn it. Also, you need to look at what James is truly saying. He was saying those who proclaim to have faith, but there is not evidence of it by the works that they do, then their faith is useless.

        • NavyBugchaser

          The idea is that the works we do is the evidence of out having accepted Christ as our Personal Lord and Savior. There is no other name by which we can be saved except by the Lord Jesus Christ and there is no other way into Heaven except by relying on what Christ did for us and surrendering to His will. Works alone, with out Grace, may make you look good, but in God's eyes you still fall short of what He expects. Our righteousness only comes by God seeing Christ in us. Just as faith without the works will be useless as well.

  • KD

    Faith alone will not save (i.e., Mk. 16:15-16; James 2).

    • msjallen

      KD, Mark 16:15-16 wasn't even in the original Greek texts. It is faith alone in Christ alone for salvation. Eternal salvation from sin, death and hell is the free gift of God's grace, and is based solely upon man's personal faith and belief in Jesus Christ. He voluntarily died as a substitutionary sacrifice for our sins and arose bodily from the dead, thus guaranteeing our own resurrection to eternal life. This salvation is not received by, nor based on, any sacrament, merit, or good work on our part. This one who receives Christ's salvation is eternally secure. (John 1:11-13, 3:16, 5:24, 10:28-30, 14:6; Acts 16:31; Romans 3:23-26, 5:8, 6:23, 10:9-10; Ephesians 2:8-10; Titus 3:5; Hebrews 7:24-25; I Peter 1:18-19, I John 5:11-13)

      • Esteban Cafe

        Sir, I think I may disagree.

        How can it be a "free gift" if it's "based soley upon man's personal faith and belief in Jesus Christ"? You still have to 'do something' as in "have faith." How is that "free"? Also, I think there's a confusion in the Christian world as to what is a free gift and what we have to do. Else, why a judgement day?

        I wonder if there's a confusion here between the guarantee of resurection ("Free Gift") which you describe, and Eternal Life (where something more is expected of us). Conflating the two seems incorrect.

        Or, are you saying that James and Paul are in alignment in that true faith generates works in evidence of said faith?

        Herein lies the single largest reason why we divide over the scriptures–and either starting or leaving for new churches. Ever learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. Many are tossed to and fro over these very issues. I'm interested in your thoughts on this.

        • msjallen

          Heb 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
          Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
          Rom 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
          Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through FAITH in Christ Jesus.

          • Evermyrtle

            Exactly!!!

          • Kalev

            Faith without works id dead per James 2:14-26, if you have true faith the good works of righteousness will become evident in a persons life; that's what Yeshua calls us to do, in part. But those Christians without Torah will never undersatand this simple concept.

        • Jimbo999

          If someone comes up to you and hands you a free gift, it is not yours until you take it. You can't take any credit for the gift, you had nothing to do with it. You didn't build it, cook it , or buy it, you just say thank you.

    • NavyBugchaser

      KD, perhaps you should look at Eph 2:8-9, "For by Grace you are saved and that not of yourselves. It is a gift of God. Not of WORKS lest any man should boast." Granted James talks about faith without works is dead, however, what he was say was unless your faith produces works, then it is dead. The works are mainly the evidence that one has been saved by their faith in the Sacrifice that Christ made for us. It is like having a field that you own and what corn to grow in it. You have been given the field, but unless you do the work of plowing, planting, and watering that field, you will never have any corn to show for it. This is what working out one's salvation is about. You don't work to be saved, but you work because you are saved.

      • KD

        A gift must be received. If salvation was merely by grace alone then all will be saved, "for the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared unto ALL men" (Titus 2:11ff). But "all" will not be saved (Matt. 7:13-23). Those that receive Christ have right "TO BECOME the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name" (John 1:12).
        It is grace THROUGH faith (Eph. 2:8). In reference to baptism, someone else does the baptizing. The one being baptized is passive in this.

        • NavyBugchaser

          KD, you are absolutely right. The gift must be accepted and it is ours for either receiving or rejecting. The issue is whether one must work to be saved and for that the answer is no. Works will never save you. They are necessary, but they can't save your soul. The salvation comes through the Grace that God offers to one and all, but in order for one to receive the gift, they have to be willing to submit to God's will and surrender their will to His. After the the gift is received, then the works comes into play.

  • Pepsi1933

    Hey, remember the Bible teaching "Judge NOT lest you be judged"????? If someone professes the Christian beliefs then I believe them .. until they prove otherwise. Enough said!!!!!!

    • NavyBugchaser

      Christ also said that you shall know them by their fruits. There are two types of judgments. One is to make off the cuff snap judgments about people and accusing them of certain things that you have no idea are true or not. Then there is the judgment that if it waddles, quacks, and swims like a duck, then it is fairly certain that it is a duck. We all judge things all of the time, but if you look and know things about an individual or an organization in light of what the Scriptures say, then you have a pretty good idea about what they are or are not.

    • Gordon

      The Muslim/quasi-Christian hybrid Obama makes the same claim. Do you believe him?

    • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

      By this statement of "not judging" taken out of the context you have proven you do not understand it nor know what is at stake. Furthermore, are you not "judging" others by telling them to not to judge? Yes, you do so on both accounts you have been found lacking and telling untrue opinions.

  • agbjr

    Do not attempt to define Christ and redemption … no one can. God provides the one and only path to everlasting life however there are many entrances; how you get on the path is your choice. Doctrine is a set of beliefs, worship is a prescribed practice of those beliefs. Christianity accepts all who accept Christ and it envelopes all who worship in His name and practice His teachings no matter what specific doctrine or path they may follow. I will not debate theology nor condemn the doctrine of fellow Christians such as Latter Day Saints … I am an ordained Presbyterian Elder.

    • Smith

      Well Mr "ordained Presbyterian Elder". you are going to be surprised when you step into eternity. The Word of God says there is only ONE way to get into heaven and that is through Jesus Christ and Him alone. there are not many entrances. If it were so then Jesus would not have had to die, be buried and then resurrected for our salvation. Only when we believe and embrace that truth will we be saved. His love for us is so great.

    • Kenneth

      Hey, agbjr, someone said in the New Testament that the road to hell is wide and many people follow it, but the way to Christ and Heaven is narrow and few find it…..now, who said that? Even tho you are an Elder ( I am a Deacon), you are subscribing to the wide way by accepting any and all theologies. You need to re-evaluate what the Bible says.

    • eVERMYRTLE

      agbjr, your attitude is perfectly stated along with the lost world attitudes. There is ONE WAY, ONLY ONE WAY. JESUS CHRIST IS THE DOORWAY TO HEAVEN. YOU GO THROUGH "THAT DOOR" OR YOU WILL NOT MAKE IT.

    • NavyBugchaser

      Sometime, I think you would do well to re-read the Gospels. I am a Sunday School Teacher of a Nazarene Church (though at heart I am a Southern Baptist) and I have read many times where Christ said that He is the Good Shepherd and he is the Door that the sheep may go in and out through. All others who tried to come into the sheepfold by other means were thieves and murderers. There is only One Shepherd, there is only One Entrance (of course let's not forget my life verse which is John 14:6,) "Jesus said to him, 'I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father, except Through Me.'" Satan tells people that there are many ways to get to Heaven, but Heaven is not Rome, where all roads lead there. There aren't many way, there aren't several ways, there ain't even a few ways, There is only ONE way to Heaven and that;s through Christ. If you are an Elder in the Presby Church, perhaps you ought to consider resigning if you believe that one can enter Heaven by other means than the True Way.

    • steve

      Ag, Ag, Ag. I know your heretical crap so well: Many roads to heaven, right, Ag? Muslims, Buddhists, JWs, we are just all one and on our way to heaven!! Doesn't that feel good, Ag? Well, I say to you, Ag baby: EVEN IF AN ANGEL FROM HEAVEN PREACHES ANOTHER GOSPEL THAN THE ONE I HAVE PREACHED, LET HIM BE DAMNED.
      And yours, Aggie baby, is another Gospel. And if I were YOU, I'd get my behind out of that damned Presbyterian(PCUSA) so-called church, and get into one that preaches the true gospel.

      • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

        Those roads are mirage with cliffs at the end of each one of them.
        Mark 1:15

        • ORB

          Amen!

    • Martin Truther

      Since this is a religious blog it necessitates discussions/argumentatives concerning religion/doctrine/theology…whatever one wishes to call it at the moment. But one thing is quite certain, being ordained, and even having attended a seminary, is no grand proof that you're following orthodox Christianity. Fact is, many a minister has erred in their understanding, interpretation and certainly their pronouncements of being a believing Christian. More seminaries have spent time striving to mythologize Christianity than the average layman has been made aware. It's sad fact that many pulpits are filled with non-Christians, for they don't believe anything more than some beatitudes and platitudes. Jesus has become a great person of high moral character, and that's about it.

      On the other hand, when asked of Peter, "Who do you say that I am?" I believe that very same question must be asked of anyone who claims the banner of being a Christian. If one can say Lord and Savior in an orthodox manner and understanding, I am more keen on accepting them as a Christian. Unfortunately, with Mormonism and some other cults, the common definitions of what salvation means, atonement, the Holy Spirit, and one's entire Christology can vary incredibly in definition and in practice. To make a blanket statement that all is well as long as you follow the teachings of Christ, is very misleading. Jesus the Christ is either one's savior, having paid for each of our sins through his death, or he is just another teacher of the law. And if one believes only the latter part of the last sentence, they are damned in their sins.

      • ORB

        Well said Martin!

    • Jimbo999

      That sort of explains why the Presbyterian Church is a dead church today

      • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

        Nope, that is a simplistic simplification and urban legend. Depends what country, which denomination and which specific church. Holy Spirit is not a bureaucrat but an Advocate.

    • ORB

      As an "ordained Presbyterian Elder" you should be familiar with the Doctrine of Grace [which some call Calvinism]. This Doctrine clearly defines the redemption that is only in and through Jesus Christ!

    • FleshProfitsNothing

      Presbyterians have gone so far "out of the Way" (thanks to Jesuits infiltration) that I can't begin to understand THEIR Doctrine anymore. At one (very short) time, I was Presbyterian, but, realized how far from the Truth they have gone. I can't speak for EVERY Presby Church, there are a few "good" ones left, but as for the majority they are in serious jeopardy.

  • KD

    Yes, go ahead and take verses out of context. The Bible DOES NOT condemn ALL judging. Read the context of Matt. 7. Now read John 7:24.

    • Evermyrtle

      KD you are exactly right. There in no way on earth you will get through life without any judging. When you see a murder, you think, "That is wrong," you have judged, at that moment but that is righteous and fair judgment. I believe the problem is many do not even realize the difference in fair and unfair judgment, so they pipe , "The Bible says 'do not judge!'"

    • Gordon

      Correct! Paul chided the Corinthian church in 1 Cor. 6 for their dereliction of duty in not judging (read verses 2 through 5).

      • Peggy

        It is very confusing when there are verses that say both. "Judge not that ye be not judged, cast the beam out of your own eye before you try to cast a splinter out of your brothers eye", etc. Then it says not to t keep company with
        unbelievers, drunkards, those of riotous living, etc. and by their fruits ye shall know them. It often depends on who was hearing the message. For instance Paul said he did not eat meat if it offended someone there, but a person should not judge one who does eat meat as sinning. As much as I hate how Edwards hurt his wife and people who
        were all for him, I think his lawyer should say, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" As many scandals that have been connected with our government officials I would guess there are many who don't get caught.

      • ORB

        1st Corinthians 5!

  • Wendell

    Now, I'm very releaved to know that mormons are Christians because Joel Osteen says it's so. Joel Osteen is one of the biggest plastic phonies in history. Besides, who cares what he thinks?

    • Smith

      Wendell, I'm sure right now Romney does. lol

      • Matt Holm

        very good!

    • gigi

      I personally don't care what Joel Osteen said especially since he came out stating that he believes Obama is also a Christian. Not judging just going on the person themselves, what they do, how they act and what comes out of their mouthes. Are you listening Joel?

      • Daniel

        A little harsh on Joel, I can say one thing about Joel Osteen, he is a kind hearted soul, no question in my mind. He is genuine in his caring for people. In his case it is not about the money, but money flows his way. I cannot say the same for others who do work the crowds for money.

  • Byron

    Here's another very good question to ask, do the Mormon's believe the Bible to be THEE word of GOD? NO!! They have two gods, their BoM and the Bible. Some of their beliefs are far from the Bible. I dont care what OLSTEEN says, he's not thee word.

    • npcomplete

      Good point Byron, but I wanted to add a comment about the mormon cult literature:

      Actually the Mormon cult believes there are 4 holy books:
      1.) Book of Mormon,
      2.) Pearl of Great Price
      3.) Doctrine and Covenants
      4.) Bible "insofar as correctly translated"

      These four are called the "Standard Works". Of course the first 3 (Book of Mormon, Pearl, and Doctrine) are purely heretical cult literature, invented by Joseph Smith. The mormon cult believes that the first 3 cult books are more reliable than the Word of God (the Bible), which is why they always include that phrase "insofar as correctly translated".

      In witnessing to Mormons it is important to understand what they believe.

      • RightWingBill

        Difficut to witness to people who do not even know what they are suppose to believe!
        Mormons are in NO WAY Christian. A Christian #1 believes that Christ is God and the Savior of the world and there isa ton of proof for that. The problem is that thier religion's inventor got his information and new direction from Satan himself. The warning in the bible is that no one shall add or take away from what is written in the bible and THAT is exactly what Mormons have done. They have a curse from God upon them for doing that.
        Get out of Mormonism! Or dance on the hot hubs of Hell! BTW, I do not condemn anyone…this is what God says. If you have a problem with any of this, your problem is with God and not me!

      • msjallen

        More info…They are establishment oriented but are NOT Christians according to what the Bible teaches; but they believe what the Book of Mormon teaches. There are some very nice Mormons and hard working and believe in many things we as Christians believe in as far as establishment principles go. Read Walter Martin’s book; “Kingdom of the Cults” — an eye opener. And see: http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/changecontents.ht… http://www.utlm.org/navonlinebooks.htm

    • RightWingBill

      Not to be offensive BUT…Mormons do not believe Christ is anything other than a great teacher. Mitt Romney either does not know his own professed religion or is lying to the nation to gain uneducated Christian favor. They do NOT believe He is the Savior as Christianity does. They do not believe in the Trinity as Christians do. Just because they "claim" Christ on their paperwork does not make them Christian in any way. To them, He was a good teacher and that's all. They are in serious biblical error on so many points that there is no way they can be considered Christian. Using Christ's name misleads many.

      • RightWingBill

        After seeing this….I just lost any possible respect I might have ever had for Osteen, a pawn of Satan. Apparently he is another Rick Warren type. BTW, Warren has sided with the New World Order – and is now a member of the Council of Foreign Relations gang (CFR) and is right off the deep end now in sin He has gone wayward for world status and position. Everyone in the CFR has virtually sold their soul to earthly benefits derived by being a member. Don't believe it eh? Truth is true even if you choose not to believe it. He is now a deceiver and his goal is to help lead the church into a ONE WORLD CHURCH.

        • RightWingBill

          The CFR was begun in 1921 with the sole purpose of guiding nations into a one world order system. You are only allowed admission by invitation and agreeing to abide by that agenda which is anti-God, anti-biblical and anti-American!!! Rick Warren has agreed to push for their agenda which is evil and Godless.
          Wake up America! You would not believe who are invited "IN" as members…Newt, Katy Couric, presidents…you would be amazed at who is working against our America!
          "If anyone has an ear let him hear". Rev 13:9 Wake up America…we are like frogs in a pot of water being brought to boil…slowly. Don't misunderstand me, I am not saying I would not vote for a Mormon, what I saying clearly, they are NOT Christians and anyone that thinks they are is not understanding Mormonism or Christianity. Most people do not know their own religion!

    • Despeville

      Is Mormonism Christian?

      Concise and substantiated answer in 8 minutes of video: http://youtu.be/y2hN9pgpyao

  • Johnny

    Instead of busting Romneys chops why not go after the Muslim we currently have in office he does not believe in Jesus at all! Something to chew on people!!

  • Despeville

    Mormons can appear as Christians only in confused and drifting minds and hearts and churches that are post Protestant and cut off from the heritage of Reformation which was and is a re-exposition of Apostolic Faith once for all delivered to the saints of God and His church.

  • WillytheGeek

    Just another prime example of the people not reading about the advesary and false teachers in thier bible. The LORD will have mercy on whom he will have mercy; but, he warns about false teachers. The Mormans have a highly questionable history.

    • RightWingBill

      The history is not questionable, it's absurd and false. The problem…the majority of Mormons do NOT know what they are suppose to believe!

  • Xander

    As I understand it, Mormons believe that Jesus BEGAN at Bethlehem; born of a physical relationship between God (God being a glorified Adam) and Mary, and that He is a brother of Lucifer. If so, that means that they cannot believe that Jesus is the eternal Son of God, or that He is the Alpha and Omega, or that all things are made by Him as the Scriptures declare (since He began thousands of years after creation). This is their "Christianity" as it was explained to me. Mormon friends, would you confirm or clarify?

  • MoS

    Mitt Romney has the same moral values and core beliefs as we Christians share. We must gather together and support his nomination in order to begin to turn this great country back to the Constitutional wisdom on which our Founding Fathers carefully, and prayerfully built the foundation of our Democracy!

    • Despeville

      No, we do not "share" one thing with heathens in terms of faith and Christian Faith is not a morality system.

    • Kalev

      Romney is Obama Lite, a NWO Globalist, no different than the NWO Globalist now in the WH.

  • Despeville

    You must be PC-USA I gather?

  • Proud disabled Vet

    The Book of Mormons is FALSE teaching.
    KJV john 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    KJV John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    As for Mr. Olsteen, I say this…The Lord Jesus Christ warned His followers, "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves (Matt. 7:15). The warning was important because Jesus later said to them: "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; therefore be shrewd as serpents, and innocent as doves" (Matt. 10:16). The apostle Paul, with a deeply troubled spirit and in tears, penned a similar warning: "I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock" (Acts 20:29). Throughout church history these warnings concerning professing Christians who deceive even the elect have seldom been taken seriously. How can the church be so easily deceived? According to Webster’s Dictionary "deceive" means "to lead astray or to cause to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid." Could it be the church has not only lost its ability to discern truth from error but also to discern wolves from sheep? Yes, when His sheep stop reading His Holy Word! If Joel doesn't repent and turn from his evil ways, according to Scriptures…he will pay dearly for leading people a stray!

    An endorsement from Joel Osteen is like the blind leading the blind!

    I believe in the power of prayer! Believers in Jesus Christ the son of God need to be praying for this country like never before! I pray in tears for a man of God to lead this Country, cause we ALL have been placed in a Lion's Den thanks to Obama's Administration! We CAN NOT let Obama to have another 4 years! We can not loose our focus on that goal !

  • Chris

    How can Mormonism be anything but a cult. The Book of Mormon is some of the worst science fiction you could ever write.
    It is so full of factual errors it would make a comedy routine.

  • Esteban Cafe

    If Mr. Olsteen said that Evangelicals were NOT Christian, would it matter? No more than when he says Mormons are Christians. In our flawed world we take what we have of the scriptures and interpret them according to our own understanding. Look at how many Christian churches there are–a barometer of how flawed we are relative to scriptures.

    I prefer to let God sort out Mormons from Christians. As for me and my house, we will treat equally with love and consideration.

  • mesaman

    Bigots are down on what they're not up on. The majority of the anti-Mormon crusaders posting on here are likely to have an inventory of facts equal to the integrity level of a democrat, the awareness of life equal to that of a chocolate chip cookie, and the objectivity of a paramecium. By all means, gentle folks, vote for YObamma, he needs your kind, and you deserve him as your messiah.

  • D Landis

    to KD
    You are wrong. Salvation is by faith alone and not by works look at Ephsians 2:8-10 and Rom 3: 10-20; Rom 4:1-10; Titus 3:5
    Mark 16:15-16 says that He that believes and is baptized shall be saved and he that believes not shall be damned. It is not believing that damns a person. If a person believes they are to identify themselves with Christ publicly, which is what baptism does. If they are not willing to be baptized then they have not truly believed. The baptism part is to define that the faith or belief must be genuine such that is results in the correct action.
    This also true of Acts 2:38 and James 2 – Faith that does not produce good works is not true or saving faith. James is not contradicting Paul but only defining what true faith results in. A faith that is just a "said" faith that does not produce good works is not true faith and does not save.
    I hope this helps you understand the relationship between faith and works. Faith in Christ alone saves and faith that saves results in good works. Look again at Eph 2: 8-10 Having been saved by faith (not baptism which is a work), not by works, we as a saved person are then His workmanship unto good works. A truly saved person will do good works not to get saved but because he is saved.

  • D Landis

    We are not to judge whether a person is saved or not but we are to judge whether a persons words, actions and attitudes are consistent with what a Christian should be and do, and consistent with the teachings of Jesus Christ.
    By their fruits you shall know them.

  • Patrick Corrao

    http://mazeministry.com/mormonism/newsletters_art…
    Momons are not Christians period.

    • mesaman

      You are a CAD, period!!

      • Despeville

        Is Mormonism Christian?

        Concise and substantiated answer in 8 minutes of video:
        http://youtu.be/y2hN9pgpyao

        • mesaman

          Your source, your fault, too bad. Unacceptable to me, Okay.

          • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

            Nothing is acceptable to a slave of man made myths but same myths. Can you dispute any facts presented? Of course you cannot.

  • rcf1998

    To me being a Christian is a person who has a continued intimate relationship with Jesus. I reserve my thoughts from someone who only presents the kind and passionate side of our Heavenly Father, Jehovah and not the other side of our heavenly parent and how to learn to fear Him as well. Joel Osteen tends to show the side we all want to see but not the one we also need to see and experience.
    Whether you are a Christian or not is completely dependent upon your relationship with Jesus Christ. Is Mit Romney a Christian? Only he and Jesus knows that for sure. Let the true Judge be the Judge! God Bless You All!

    • Despeville

      Where is this alleged "relationship with Jesus" in the Bible please? Please show us… Because all I see is REPENTING and BELIEVING upon Jesus and His perfect righteousness and finished work for His people and that is not the same.

      • Despeville

        Hmmm, just as I thought… NO ANSWER and certainly not from the Bible…

        Is Mormonism Christian?

        Concise and substantiated answer in 8 minutes of video: http://youtu.be/y2hN9pgpyao

        • rcf1998

          Had other things to do my friend: Here is the answer to your question about relationship with our Savior Jesus Christ:
          The word you must look for in the Bible where Jesus is looking for a relationship is “abide”. This word appears throughout the New Testament. One example is: John_15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
          The regular dictionary contains several definitions for the word "abide." These definitions are: to put up with, tolerate; wait patiently for; to withstand; to dwell; to remain in place; and to conform to. These are all good definitions, but in the original usage (Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic), the meaning of the word went much deeper and is from the word meno: to remain, abide, in reference to place, to sojourn, tarry, not to depart, to continue to be present, to be held, kept, continually in reference to time, to continue to be, not to perish, to last, endure, of persons, to survive, live in reference to state or condition, to remain as one, not to become another or different, to wait for, await one. Jesus truly wants you to “abide” in Him!

          • Despeville

            "The word you must look for in the Bible where Jesus is looking for a relationship is “abide”."

            So abide = "relationship" ??? Sorry but does not follow. Not on any level. Non exegetically. Not morphologically and not contextually either in Greek or in English. You start with a presupposition only to return to the very same presupposition. You may as well skip all this semantical gymnastics that does not give you any basis whatsoever for this kind of mental shortcuts. See I can make a biblical case that μένω-menō-abide in John 15:4 refers to biblically present words and concepts of repent-μετανοέω-metanoeō and believe-πιστεύω pisteuō as for example in Mark 1:15. Those Words and concepts are all over the Bible while your implied "relationship" so popular in Evangelicalism and yet so vague and meaning different things to different people is not found in the Bible and that is the fact.

  • Kenneth

    Joel Osteen's theology is a mile wide and an inch deep. Compare to Billy Graham whose theology is an inch wide and a mile deep. I consider Osteen to be a false prophet as described in the New Testament. He accepts most any theology in his namby pamby sermonettes.

  • George

    How would Joel know?

  • DanMK

    The only problem here Joel is that in order to be saved you have to be a Mormon. Have you confessed that Brigham Young is God's prophet ? Then sorry you're out.

  • Stephen

    Who is he kidding? Romney is no more of a Christian than Joel Osteen is or Benny Hinn.

  • Euna

    Meg– Well, all you glorified commenter Christians, where do you get your authority to judge whether someone is a Christian or not? Has God told you to be the judge? I don't think so. Have you thought about, that there are many people who reads the scriptures, and has the spirit to understand them, which may be different from yours, and they are right? It is a wise person who stops judging others, because God will be the final judge. Thanks to all of you who did not take it upon yourselves to be the judge on whether " Mormons " are Christians or not.

  • Gdrake

    Joel olsteen would not know a real Christian if one got up and smacked him in the face. He only teaches cotton candy Christianity. As for Romney I am not thrilled with him but if a door knob ran against Obama I would vote for the door knob!

    • mesaman

      How very unclever. You are truly a no-comedian. Try chicken farming, it's more to your talent.

  • anzaholyman

    The cracks in Orthodoxy's certitude continue to show.

  • http://twitter.com/lambsev11 @lambsev11

    I find it hard to accept that anyone who knows the story of Joseph Smith could be or remain a Mormon. I find it impossible to reconcile Mormon doctrine to the Holy Bible. Joel Osteen seems quite out of touch to me. http://www.pbs.org/americanprophet/joseph-smith.h…

  • http://www.RonPaul2012.com Diogenes

    The same Joel Osteen who won't preach about hell because it doesn't bring in huge congregations? THAT one? Doesn't mean much to me.

  • aceituna

    I believe that by my own reason or strength I cannot come to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, but the HOLY SPIRIT has called me by his power, enlightened me with his gifts and sanctified and preserved me in the one true faith. There is much useless twaddle in the comments above, but the basis is that God through the Holy Spirit, 3rd person of the TRINITY works in the hearts of people to bring them to faith. True many resist him and refuse the gifts He offers. If they continue in this attitude they will eventually cause the Holy Spirit to leave them forever and continue on the way to hell. I believe that God the Father created me and all the exists, that he preserves and cares for them. I believe that Jesus Christ, true God,begotten from eternity, and true man born of the Virgin Mary is my Lord. He has redeemed me with his holy and innocent and precious blood, purchased and won me from sin, death and the devil so that I may be his own, live in his kingdom and serve him now and in eternity. This is most certainly true! If anyone believes these basics I expect to meet that person in heaven.

  • dominke

    This character is another reason good Americans are turning away from church. We are staying home and praying without those type of people distorting our faith. Joel is the one who is not christian. Joel and Obama can both burn in hell.

  • Innerman

    Jesus Christ did not require a "formal education" to preach the gospel or become a member of the Church. The upcoming election is not about religion, although personal beliefs may be used to determine an individual's vote. It is about whether we want to live under the free enterprise system or a communist-inspired collective system of state domination. It is about whether we and our progeny will live under freedom or slavery.

  • Carol Goodwin

    Mormons do not believe in the immaculate conception between God the Father and the teenaged virgin Mary.
    Mormons accept as gospel the writings of a very mortal and flawed Joseph Smith who had some ridiculous stories that he made up. I read the Book of Mormon back when my sons were toddlers and when i realized what a piece of fictionit was, I threw it in the trash! Anyone who believes that garbage is brainwashed or brain dead! Mitt Romney is NOT a Christian. NO Christian would have ever supported 'pro choice'. No Christian would have ever supported NDAA and no Christain would have flip-flopped like Mitt Romney has. No Christian would have tortured that beautiful Irish setter the way he did either!

    • mesaman

      How absolutely wrong about everything you are. May I suggest that you work to get out of your trailer and into school, hoping to learn logic and rational thinking.

      • http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

        Here is some logic, facts and reason and not from a trailer park either. Can you deal with that? That is a question…
        http://youtu.be/y2hN9pgpyao

  • Tod

    According to Mormon theology, Jesus is the literal son of god and his goddess wife. He was born through physical sexual relations with Mary. Brigham Young taught that Jesus was not born with any involvement of the Holy Spirit.

    According to the Bible, Jesus is not the literal son of god and his goddess wife. He was not born through sexual relations. Mary was a virgin was Jesus was born. There is no such thing as a goddess wife. Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:20).

    According to Mormon theology, Jesus had a beginning. Jesus was a created being.

    According to the Bible, Jesus did not have a beginning. Jesus is the Eternal God.

    I could go on and on about the atonement, plan of salvation, etc. Suffice it to say that there are many, many differences.

    The Mormon Jesus and Christian Jesus are not the same person.

  • Bobseeks

    A false teacher endorsing a false believer does not equal truth. Osteen is a liar.

  • jyearsley

    really? Mr. prosperity thinks that as long as one believes Jesus is the son of God, one is a Christian? Perhaps he should actually read and study the Word of God.

  • Scott Buccine

    First of all who is Joel Olsteen? I will tell you. He is a wolf in sheeps clothing!!! Do not fall for this guys feel good preaching tactics. He is in bed with the media, Oprah, politicians and the like. Any "True" Christian knows that Mormons are not Christians, because they don't follow Jesus Christ of the bible (KJV). They follow the book of Mormon! Their Christ, that Joel Olsteen was so knowledgable and forthcoming to acknowledge, is actually Joseph Smith and B. Young! Joel Olsteen is a crook! Romney is as much a Christian as 7th day adventists are! I hope YOU have more knowledge and discernment than Olsteen and the rest of the "professing" Christians that follow him and the rest of the clowns that ride in the same car. Do not be fooled and misled any longer. May the Lord bless you all with wisdom and discernment.

  • FleshProfitsNothing

    THIS is "FUNNY" coming from a man who denies the GOSPEL!!! Joel Osteen interview with Larry King and in many other public proclaimations SHOW what kind of man OSTEEN is.

  • paulc

    It always amazes me how many definitions of "absolute truth" are extant in the Christian community. It must certainly frustrate God that His creatures are so confused and so judgemental.

    • FleshProfitsNothing

      Does your bible teach to just allow heresy and false teachers to take over the "church"? Or do you just go along with every "wind of doctrine"?

  • william henry

    Wow. What an incredible range of comments. Joel Osteen attacked for simply giving his opinion of accepting a man's word. A man guilty of standing by his wife through serious hard times. No one would question the faith of King David, or whether or not he was "saved". I don't agree with Mr. Romney on a lot of issues, including a lot of matters of faith, but it is not my business to evaluate the belief in his heart. He has exhibited the qualities of leadership that have brought him to a place where he is being considered for the position of POTUS. Several main line denominational "Christian" candidates have fallen by the wayside while running for the same position as Mr. Romney. They failed to plan accordingly, and they lacked the commitment to finish the race that they all claimed they were up for. Some of them lacked financial resources, Ms. Bachman, Mr. Santorum, Mr. Gingrich, Mr. Pawlenty, while Mr. Cain(professed Christian of a main line denomination) couldn't withstand the onslaught of sexual misconduct charges from past friendships and acquaintances (at the least he showed poor judgement in not thinking these things would come up). Professed Christian Mr. Gingrich is on record for divorcing two wives for younger models, shamelessly admitting adultery. No problem, we are all willing to forgive. By the way, no matter what you may think of Joel, or Mitt, keep in mind our president is Barack Hussein Obama. Just don't forget that, please.

  • Lovenox

    My brothers and sisters please be aware of what Joel Olsteen is saying. He is a mere life coach and doesn't preach biblical sound doctrine. Here he says that Jesus Christ is NOT the only way to heaven: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihnGEV-q1gw&fe…

  • Gary

    Jesus is the way … And the only way. The true judge will judge us all accordingly. I believe different from Mitt, That being said I believe Jesus Told the Disciples who were complaining and scolding others of not teaching " Sound Doctrine" That If they are not against us, They are for us. God himself will recognize followers of Jesus crucified and resurrected in place of me .. a sinner that deserved nothing. If we are actually "Christians", I prefer follower of Jesus. I say we show both of these men respect and the love of Jesus, By our actions and our words. Pray for our country and Vote what you know is right from the Bible, The inspired word of God, Let the Holy spirit lead you. There is no way you can agree with BHO on his beliefs on abortion alone.

  • Matt Holm

    Whether or not Mormons are true Christians is not a question I would ever allow Osteen to answer! Osteen is an ignoramous when it comes to actual Scripture, as he infamously demonstrated during his interview on Larry King Live, when he said he had no idea who's going to Heaven and who's going to Hell. At Divinity college, his chosen major was Commercial Broadcast, and had NOTHING to do with the study of Christian Theology.

    Osteen's ministry is superficial and materialistic, just exactly the kind of avariciousness that Jesus kicked out of the Temples! Instead of following Scriptural admonitions to live simply, Osteen lives behind 12-foot Masonry Walls, in a 12MILLION DOLLAR MANSION. He could easily be best buddies with Romney – the two certainly have enough in common!

  • jerry

    Although I will certainly vote for Romney, he is at least a heretic in that the Mormons reject the deity of Christ. Based on the Catholic Christian Church's dogmatic position in the Nicene Creed, and the fact that Mormonism rejects it, he is indeed a heretic and is not considered Christian. Sorry, but he can repent, BUT, he will make a most wonderful president and will not be anywhere near as inept as Obama.

  • Gordon

    Mormonism is a cult, plain and simple. Why do you think Romney has avoided the subject to a fault. He may make a good president as a proven businessman and former governor, but he is too smart a politician to overtly advocate for the Mormon church. Salt Lake City will remain estranged to the wider stream of Christianity in America, even if Mitt were to serve two terms in the oval office. And don't look for coffee percolators to appear in LDS Wards.

  • Gordon

    Joel has stepped in it pretty seriously this time. When the major Evangelical denominations, the Catholic church, along with people like Franklin Graham, Rick Warren, Richard Land, and other respected and very visible leaders get finished with him, the good ship Oasis Church of Houston could be in peril!

  • joan

    Joel Osteen needs to study up….read up….on the Mormons as they are a cult in every sense of the word. I am not judging Romney, but I am stating a fact on Mormonism….they have secrets that the public does not even know..just ask a former Mormon as we have and as we know personally. Sorry Joel….but you missed it…….their Jesus is NOT the same Jesus as the one we know and worship…God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit which is the Trinity.

  • Peggy

    Check this out: http://www.truthinaction.org/index.php/truth-that…

    Mormons believe their high priests are equal to Christ and that God lives on a planet with several wives who are the
    mothers of mankind amd other weird things. This site says there are many good things to say about Mormons
    but they bvelieve "all creeds of Christiandom are false". Truth in Action is a Christian site.

  • Jaime

    all this jealousy over a a faith that has embarrased the so called and self professed Christians of the world.. most of the faiths mentioned above have all but stopped serving the God of the Bible ages ago.. When was the last time any Catholic of the roman variety or any other ever come to your home to encourage you in your faith.. they have done all that they are going to do for America and the world and now they sit back and enjoy a christian culture which they may have helped create and to hell with the rest who didint get the message a hundred or so years ago.. now they preach their power or what they accomplished in the past or others did i should say and then leave it at that..but hardly ever is jesus mentioned.. Yes those people who walked the streets everyday seeking the lost are all non christians and the lazy do nothings are saved .. who do you think you are fooling…

  • Grant

    Lucifer knows that 'Jesus is the Son of God', so what does that make him??? It is either 'black or white'….
    Get behind the 'philsophy' of Mormanism. It is about a man with a 'dream'…Lots of people will say; 'Lord, Lord, and Jesus will say I do not know you. Kind of pathetic. Mr. Romney appear to be a good man. But good will not get you into heaven.

  • david creech

    To clarify doctrine from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, I wanted to share the following tenets of our beliefs, also known as the Articles of Faith (find at http://www.lds.org) written by Joseph Smith.
    1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
    2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.
    3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
    4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
    6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
    TO BE CONTINUED…

  • david creech

    7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
    8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
    9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
    10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal gglory.
    to be continued…

  • Grant

    We have a right to judge within the 'body of Christ'….when stuffs' happen like this president into office like he is now…87 percent of evangelical Christians voted for this man, and now complain about it. When warnings were given out all over the place. That why we have a 'court system' to JUDGE the facts.

    • Eric

      "87 percent of evangelical Christians voted for this man"

      I'm gonna have to throw the flag on this stat. Where, pray tell, did you ever get such a ludicrous number as 87 percent?

  • david creech

    11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
    12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
    13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

    I know that Jesus is the literal Son of God, my Savior and Redeemer.

    • Jimbo999

      There is just enough Christianity in your points to fool a lot of people. There is a lot of junk religeon to change the meaning of Christian tenets.
      Joseph Smith was killed by government marshalls after he shot and killed several people.

      1. Mormonism teaches that god the father was a man who was made a god by other gods. He then had sex with his many wives in Heaven and created many "spirit children" Two of them were Jesus and Satan. They say that Jesus was a created being. Christianity worships Jesus as eternal God who created everything.
      2. Mormonism denies original sin.
      3. We are not saved by obedience to laws and ordinances. We are "saved by faith, not by works lest any man should boast".
      4. Baptism is not for remission of sins. It is an outward sign of an inward decision of our conversion.
      5. Doublespeak gobbldegook.
      6. You say you believe in the original church organization, but deny that Jesus can forgive all sin.
      7. see point 6

    • Jimbo999

      8. You believe that the bible is not enough scripture so your leader wrote some more. and in the D&C (more scripture) your leaders still are writing more scripture to this day. Whatever the leader thinks this morning is looked at as a direct message from God. Black people are evil one day and then they are welcomed. Poligamy is essential to the Mormon belief system one day then it is wrong. Joseph Smith had, some think, dozens of wives, some as young as 10 years old.
      9. This revealing comes from your leaders who make it up as they go.
      10. You believe that the New Jerusalem will be established in Missouri while the Bible specifically says the New Jerusalem will be where the Old Jerusalem is. When your scripture contradicts the Bible, how can you believe it?

    • Jimbo999

      11. Mormonism believes that there are many paths to God and it doesn't make any difference which one you take. Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the father except by Me.
      12. Mormons are instructed to do things by their leaders and must do it because the command comes from the Father. This sometimes includes running for political office, You have no choice but to do it.
      13. All of these thing are commendable, but not worth anything if you are not a Christian. What is virtuous or chaste when you want to have multiple wives? That's one of the things you look forward to when you "return to Heaven".
      You call Jesus the Son of God but not God the Son.

  • Donald Dunnam

    Since Mormonism teaches that Jesus and Satan are brothers and that God used to be a man just like us, I think Joel is wrong. Satan was a created being. John chapter 1 tells us that through Jesus all things were created, therefore Mormonism teaches a falsehood. Also the book of Mormon claims to be another testament of Jesus, for those who actually read the Bible we know that a testament is only good after the testator dies, therefore the Mormons put Jesus to death a second time which is an open shame. Mormons Christian? I think not.

  • wademayatte

    joel osteen is a feel good preacher,he don't preach the gospel. mormons are a cult

  • ORB

    I suspect that Romney's view of Jesus Christ is as Biblical as that of the "Word of Faith" icon, Joel Osteen.

  • Marget

    Sure, he believes that Jesus is the Son of God…right along with Lucifer. Lucifer and his brother Jesus decided amongst themselves which one was going to come to earth as savior. Jesus got the "short straw". This is not biblical theology. Lucifer was a created being, Jesus was and is the eternal God. Big difference. We may use the same words but the words don't encapsulate the same concepts.

  • Walt

    Im glad I am not a member of Mr. Olsteens congregation because he is deceived and I would not be receiving truth where he is preaching. I pray the Lord opens his eyes because he has the potential to lead many astray.