Muslims grow past Mormons in Illinois

Muslims have become the third-largest religious group in the state after Roman Catholics and independent evangelicals. Not to mention, the fastest-growing one.

That's according to a census of American religious congregations unveiled Tuesday in Chicago.

This year, for the first time, the nationwide aggregation of religious traditions, dubbed the "Religion Census," counted nondenominational evangelical congregations, ranging from storefront sanctuaries to megachurches with multiple sites such as Willow Creek Community Church.

That calculation revealed that evangelicals affiliated with independent churches make up the second-largest religious group in Illinois. In fact, in 48 of the 50 states, independent evangelicals occupy a top-five spot. In the Chicago area, Illinois and nationwide, Roman Catholics rank as the largest religious group.

With 176 religious traditions, Illinois slipped from its top spot as the most religiously diverse state in 2000, falling to Pennsylvania with 184.

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Bobseeks

Islam is a disease, Christ is the cure. We should be ashamed that we allow this disease to spread.
- Deep_Thinker
  
  I'm wondering, if Islam is a disease, there is nothing good about it right? it's pure evil?
  - Bobseeks
    
    Pure evil as are all religions but Christianity not-so-deep-not-so-thinking.
    - Deep_Thinker
      
      I'm just wondering why they have so many things in common?
      
      Islam is similar to Christianity, both believe that:
      
      - There is only one God. He is the Creator and Sustainer of the universe.
      
      - God sent prophets such as Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Joseph, John the Baptist, Jesus, Mohammad, etc.
      
      - People should follow the Ten Commandments and the moral teachings of the prophets.
      
      - Mary, the mother of Jesus, was a virgin; therefore Jesus was born miraculously.
      
      - Jesus Christ is the Messiah and he performed miracles.
      
      - The Old testament/Torah and the new testament/Gospel) are holy scriptures.
      
      - Satan is evil; therefore, people should not follow Satan.
      
      - An Anti-Christ will appear on Earth before the Day of Judgment.
      
      - Jesus Christ will return by descending from Heaven and will kill the Anti-Christ.
      
      - The Day of Judgment will occur and people will be judged.
      
      - There is hell and paradise.
      - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
        
        The words and terms used by Muslims and Christians do not necessarily have the same meaning and in fact for the most part they do not have the same meaning nor context…
        
        Ask a Muslim if the Almighty would deign to become a human being.
        Ask if the Almighty can be known as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
        Ask if the Qur'an reveals the Almighty's character or only his will.
        Ask if the Almighty can allow people to lie in certain circumstances.
        Ask if the Almighty has compassion on those going to hell.
        Ask if the Almighty has a knowable essence.
        
        There are hundreds of more questions that if answered honestly reveal completely different substance to perceived similar or same terms or names in Islam of Christianity…
        
        'Do Muslims and Christians speak the same language?"
        ~ http://www.answering-islam.org/Intro/wordmeaning….
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        I know they don't believe in the trinity:
        
        There are some main differences between Islam & Christianity:
        
        (a) Trinity is totally rejected. Jesus is neither God, nor Son of God (in the literal sense). Jesus was a human prophet and not divine.
        
        (a) Muslims worship only God, the one and only the creator of the universe.
        
        (b) This God (the Quran refers to as Allah) is the God and creator of Jesus and is the same God that Jesus in the current Bible refers to as Father and to whom Jesus used to pray.
      - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
        
        The differences are far more deeper and extensive than commonly known their rejection of true nature of God.
      - Guest
        
        Any religion that rejects Jesus's divinity, his death and resurrection, the atonement for all sin, the trinity….is NOT Christianity!!
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        (c) Muslims consider Mohammad, Moses, and Jesus as prophets and messengers sent by God ("messengers" is term that refers to prophets who brought holy scriptures to their people as a message from God). These prophets were human beings, not divine, and should not be worship directly or indirectly.
        
        (d) Muslims believe that each human being can be called son/daughter of God because he/she was created by God. So there is nothing special or divine about Jesus being called son of God and therefore Jesus should not be worshiped.
        
        (e) Finally, angels (such as Gabriel) are servants/agents of God. Angels are created by God; therefore, they are not divine and should not be worshiped
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        2. The Quran says Jesus did not die on the cross, but God made it appear that way to people. Furthermore, the Quran also says that Jesus was ascended to Heaven by God. Most Christians today insist Jesus was crucified and died on the cross, but two days later was resurrected.
        
        3. Christians believe in the concept of "Original Sin" which means that human beings are born as sinners , bearing the burden of the "Original Sin" of Adam and Eve. Muslims do not believe in the " Original Sin" for 2 main reasons:
        
        (a) In the Quran, God forgave Adam for what he has done, and
        
        (b) according to the Quran, no one should be made to bear the burden of someone else's sin or mistake because it is unfair.
      - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
        
        And here you are starting to presenting substance to my point. The differences are staggering and manifold.
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        Now, remember, I do not espouse anyone take up Islam, for it surely is a false religion, but let's try and have an educated debate on it and learn how to bring Muslims to faith.
      - Bobseeks
        
        All that is not of Christ is of satan, you are too ignorant to understand that simple truth not-so-deep. There are many false beliefs that are similar to Christianity, that does not mean that they are "good".
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        I agree that Islam is not of Christ. But I would also ask if "hate" as you have for all other religions is ok? Since God talks against hate and wants us to help others, I assume you understand what hypocrisy is too Bobseks?
      - Bobseeks
        
        You more than I not-so-deep because you are the grossest of hypocrites who label the truth as hate. I do not hate muslims, I hate islam. I do not even hate lying vermin such as yourself, I hate your lies.
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        1 John 4:20
        If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.
        
        Matt 5:44
        But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
      - petroskhan1262
        
        Well, to get a bit nit-picky, he DID say he doesn't hate YOU, or muslims. It's ACTIONS he (Bobseeks) is saying he hates, so the verses don't really apply to what he's saying. And as for hate, well…
        
        Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"
        Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates."
        Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them."
        Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."
        Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."
        
        As for islam, I have no use for it, or the liars who espouse that religion. Any so-called "religion" that condones rape, murder, assassination, wife-beating and child molestation is pure evil. Any of the "good" one MIGHT find in it (or its practitioners) is a sugar coating over a pile of excrement. If the devil can assume a pleasing shape, then I am sure some muslims can appear like nice, decent people.
      - JoJo
        
        Because mohammed made up the religion and used a lot of the christian and jewish religion and mixed it all together depending upon what his mood was…whether he wanted to kill someone, take more wives, make war…he'd just alter the koran so he couldn't commit sin.
      - Bobseeks
        
        Good post – apparently the muslims and other liars such as not-so-deep have found this site; otherwise you would not have a negative rating.
http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

All religions that glorify man and his effort in his perceived climb to "God" with his deeds as steps are pure unadulterated evil and poisonous corruption.This is in fact the essence and unifying characteristic of all religions are outside of Biblical Faith including Mormonism, Jehovah Witnesses, Roman Catholicism, Talmudic Judaism, Messianic or Judaistic Phariseeism etc. etc. etc.

Highly recommend this sermon/teaching for all: "Christ Crucified Instead of Barabbas" ~ http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=4412…
- Deep_Thinker
  
  I highly recommend you educate yourself in the Islamic faith before you take such "neutral" sermons on the matter.
  http://www.discoveringislam.org/islam_vs_christia…
  - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
    
    There is nothing "neutral" about that sermon and neither you could factually assert that in two minutes that passed between my post and your reply… :) I do know a bit about Islam and Qu'ran and happily look at your site while hoping you will look at mine: http://www.answering-islam.org/
    - Deep_Thinker
      
      I will, but putting down other religions is never the right way to go.
      - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
        
        That is not a put down but simple ontological realization. The truth is not Olympics with room for 1st, 2nd or 3rd spot.
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        I never said you did, but others have above. Also, you should know that there are many similarities with Islam and Christianity. We should have an easier time converting Muslims to our faith than some of the other religions. Yes some of their teachings are wrong, but we have a duty as Christians to go and help them, not call them "pure evil", which is not ontological, but subjective.
      - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
        
        All similarities that you have mentioned are surface level only. In fact there are vast and massive differences between Islam and Biblical Christianity on every single level. They have completely and utterly different God, different view of how supernatural revelation is reveled and transmitted and entirely different view of human beings and how they can be saved. Those differences could not possibly be more staggering than they are.
      - Bobseeks
        
        Telling the truth is never wrong and Jesus always told the truth. He was not a compromiser or an appeaser like you not-so-deep. The Bible is full of "put downs" of false religions; read it some time and educate yourself out of your vast ignorance.
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        Show me a put-down in the Bible of false religions? Show me also where the Bible says we should put them down instead of trying to bring them to Christ? I have read the Bible from front to back, more than once. I was raised Lutheran all my life, and am now Christian. Can you see into my heart?
      - Bobseeks
        
        Not-so-deep: Your statement is a lie from start to finish as anyone knowledgable with Scripture can attest. The people of Canaan were destroyed because of their idolatry, the people of Israel and Judah were destroyed because of their idolatry, the prophets of Baal were destroyed when they worshipped a false GOD, we are warned against being yoked to unbelievers because they are evil, GOD mocks those who worship idols in Isaiah, and the New Testament letters address the issue of liars and false teachers such as yourself. And, of course, Jesus came to free us all from the lies of false religions and the perversion of the true faith, (the greatest of putdowns). And yes, not-so-deep, I can see into your heart through the lies you post – and your heart is as black as the pit of hell just like the heart of all those who falsely claim to be Christians and who pervert GOD's Word.
MEG

No religion should force themselves on others, as well as think they should destroy others! People, it is no surprise that we should think of freedom of religion as well as human rights! STOP hurting one another!
- Deep_Thinker
  
  Amen MEG! The legislature is no place to enact laws of your religion on other people…
- http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
  
  None is hunting here and none can force anyone to believe the truth of Christ. That is entirely mandate of God and not of man.
- Bobseeks
  
  Freedom of religion is not a concept expressed in the Bible and muslims do not respect human rights once they are in control. Fools such as yourself help them in their goal of domination over us.
keyboardshark

"Does the Quran really contain dozens of verses promoting violence?

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's many calls to violence according to what their own moral preconceptions find justificable. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy – and that of his companions – along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.

Quran (5:33) – "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) – "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Quran (9:5) – "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

TO SEE THE REST: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-viole…
- Deep_Thinker
  
  Kill the idolaters wherever you find them, and capture them, and blockade them, and watch for them at every lookout…" (Quran 9:5).
  
  The "idolaters" (Arabic: mushrikeen) were those Meccan "pagans" who had declared war against Mu***mad and his community. The Meccan oligarchs fought against the Prophet's message from the very beginning. When they realized that the flow of converts to Islam was increasing, they resorted to violent oppression and torture of the Prophet and his followers.
  - keyboardshark
    
    Deep_Thinker says: "The "idolaters" (Arabic: mushrikeen) were those Meccan "pagans" who had declared war against Mu***mad and his community."
    
    That may be your spin on it, but then why does it say "wherever you find them"? That seems pretty open-ended to me.
    
    "When they realized that the flow of converts to Islam was increasing, they resorted to violent oppression and torture of the Prophet and his followers."
    And your proof of this is….
    
    Besides, D_T, you have described yourself in previous threads as being Libertarian. Why are you acting as an apologist for Islam when it is one of, if not THE, most oppressive ideologies?
  - petroskhan1262
    
    Just out of curiosity, why are you not typing Mo's name? In a prior comment, you claim to be a Christian, and now you avoid typing out Muhammed's name, just like a muslim, and you are referring to him as "the Prophet".
    
    And all that "violence against muslims" nonsense is islamic propaganda. The violence was, in nearly every case, instigated by Muhammed, against people who had no problem with him.
    
    He was nothing more than a megalo-maniacal, child-molesting desert bandit, drunk on power and murder, condoning the basest of human drives, and calling his inane babblings messages from God.
- Deep_Thinker
  
  The Prophet himself survived several assassination attempts, and it became so dangerous for the Muslims in Mecca that Mu***mad sent some of his companions who lacked tribal protection to take asylum in the Christian kingdom of Abyssinia. After 13 years of violence, he himself was compelled to take refuge in the city of Medina, and even then the Meccans did not relent in their hostilities. Eventually, various hostile Arab tribes joined in the fight against the Muslims, culminating in the Battle of the Trench, when 10,000 soldiers from many Arab tribes gathered to wipe out the Muslim community once and for all. As we know, the Muslims survived these challenges and eventually went on to establish a vast civilization.
- Deep_Thinker
  
  At the time Verse 9:5 was revealed, Muhammad and his followers had begun to establish themselves securely. They had returned triumphantly to Mecca without violence, most Meccans themselves had become Muslims, and many of the surrounding pagan Arab tribes had also accepted Islam and sent delegations to the Prophet pledging their allegiance to him. Those that did not establish peace with the Muslims were the bitterest of enemies, and it was against these remaining hostile forces that the verse commands the Prophet to fight.
  
  The verses that come immediately before 9:5 state, "Those with whom you have treaties are immune from attack." It further states, "Fulfill your treaties with them to the end of their term, for God loves the conscientious." Now, in its proper context, verse 9:5 can be properly understood.
- Deep_Thinker
  
  This was a guidance to the Prophet at that specific time to fight those idolaters who, as 9:4 mentions, violated their treaty obligations and helped others fight against the Muslims. It is not a general command to attack all non-Muslims, and it has never signified this to the overwhelming majority of Muslims throughout history. Had it been so, then every year, after the "sacred months are past," (The "sacred months" are four months out of the year during which fighting is not allowed) history would have witnessed Muslims attacking every non-Muslim in sight. This yearly slaughter never occurred. Though the present verse is only one example, none of the Quranic verses that mention fighting justify aggression nor propose attacking anyone because of their religious beliefs. Nor were forced conversions recognized as valid under Islamic law.
- Deep_Thinker
  
  The fundamental Quranic principle is that fighting is allowed only in self-defense, and it is only against those who actively fight against you. Indeed, Islam is a religion that seeks to maximize peace and reconciliation. Yet, Islam is not a pacifist religion; it does accept the premise that, from time to time and as a last resort, arms must be taken up in a just war.
  
  If the enemy inclines toward peace, however, Muslims must follow suit: "But if they stop, God is most forgiving, most merciful" (2:192). Also read: "Now if they incline toward peace, then incline to it, and place your trust in God, for God is the all-hearing, the all-knowing" (8:61).
  - Bobseeks
    
    You are, quite simply, glossing over the fact the islam is a violent and oppressive false religion. That makes you a liar not-so-deep (I already knew that).
    - Deep_Thinker
      
      I have no evidence that Islam is a violent religion, except of the few extremists that take it too far and misinterpret the Quran. But you are too quick to put others down to do any intelligent research Bobseks.
      - keyboardshark
        
        Deep_Thinker says: "I have no evidence that Islam is a violent religion…"
        
        I do:
        Videos on Islamic Violence against women http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icNTs30ZRvQ
        
        CAUTION: GRAPHIC CONTENT!
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        It's Kool-aid time… What flavor today?
      - keyboardshark
        
        Deep_Thinker says: "It's Kool-aid time… What flavor today?"
        
        My flavor is reality. What is your fantasy flavor?
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        A very myopic view of reality you have…
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        In pre-Islamic Arabia violence against women began at birth in the form of female infanticide. Islam prohibited the practice of female infanticide. Not only did the Quran prohibit this practice, it also mocks those who view the birth of a girl child with contempt. (Quran 16:58-59).
        
        Another common form of violence against women is that committed by husbands on their wives. Islam requires that husbands treat their wives with respect and it prohibits any form of physical or emotional abuse. The Quran requires that spouses treat each other with love and mercy. (Quran 30:21). Moreover, the Quran repeatedly warns against the use of injurious statements by a husband against his wife. (Quran 58:2-4).
        
        I guess because a few muslims commit sins against their religion and the Quran we can lump them all in one bucket huh? Islam does not condone violence against women…
      - keyboardshark
        
        Deep_Thinker says: " Islam requires that husbands treat their wives with respect and it prohibits any form of physical or emotional abuse."
        
        The actual evidence says otherwise.
        
        "Islam does not condone violence against women…" Those are your words, but again, the actual evidence shows otherwise. Since it is occurring with rather alarming frequency, then we would have to say there is a huge disconnect between what the Koran says and what Muslims do, if your interpretation is correct.
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        Muslims might participate in violence, but that doesn't mean that Islam condones it..
      - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
        
        Hmmm, but "prophet" Muhammad depending on the source either personally or with partial help of his troops beheaded over 800 Jews in Mecca so "the blood reached the ankles" in the courtyard where this was done. Given that don't you think that Islam does have a rich tradition and propensity to violence especially that this type of action is codified well over hundred times in Qu'ran?
      - keyboardshark
        
        Deep_Thinker says: "Muslims might participate in violence, but that doesn't mean that Islam condones it."
        
        Except for all the verses from the Koran you have been shown, but which you either explain away or ignore.
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        I could show you many Christian passages that show the same thing, when taken out of context.
        
        What's your point?
      - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
        
        Deep, no you can show "same thing"… What you can show is passages from OT where Israel was Theocracy. All of that is subject to further interpretation and exposition given by God the Son in New Testament which is a greater and progressive light of truth.
      - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
        
        ' no you can show "same thing" should be: no you can't show "same thing"
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        That's what I mean, is that you have to look at the context. Not just take one verse and assume its meaning… Verses were only added later on for easy reading anyway..
      - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
        
        Nope. Muhammad is the final and last "prophet" of Allah. There is no other context or covenant changing any of that. Islam is self contradictory and there are clearly multimedia of codified teachings prescribing violence. Thankfully most Muslims do not
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        Yes, Islam is self-contradictory, I know that. I am referring to the violence that some say is condoned by Islam, when looked at in the right context, maybe they do, maybe they dont.
        
        There are also many different groups of Islam, the same as with Christians. Not all believe the same thing. But broad, general, and hateful statements toward Islam don't get us anywhere as some have done.
      - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
        
        Please show me few examples where teaching about violence although presented in the Qu'ran actually means something else.
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        9:5 is often misrepresented and taken out of context. I noted all of this below.
      - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
        
        You failed to do what I asked you to do which you assert that you can do…
        
        "So travel freely, [O disbelievers], throughout the land [during] four months but know that you cannot cause failure to Allah and that Allah will disgrace the disbelievers.
        And [it is] an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the disbelievers, and [so is] His Messenger. So if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away – then know that you will not cause failure to Allah . And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment.
        Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].
        ***And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.***
        And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.
        How can there be for the polytheists a treaty in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at al-Masjid al-Haram? So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].
        How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient.
        
        Qu'ran Surat At-Tawbah 9:2-8
        
        Now explain how and why 9:5 marked with *** does not say what it says because of context…
      - Eric
        
        "But broad, general, and hateful statements toward Islam don't get us anywhere as some have done."
        
        And yet you have no problem with "not getting us anywhere" by saying that Catholics are not Christians. Why do you suddenly change your tune when it comes to Muslims?
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        How are catholic Christians? Do they believe in Jesus alone as their savior like Christians? If so, then they are not catholic, but Christians.
      - Eric
        
        As usual, you entirely missed the point. I was not disputing your view of Catholics, I was asking why you are not willing to make this same delineation with Muslims? If all who claim to be Christians really aren't, then doesn't it likewise stand that all who claim to be Muslims really aren't?
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        As usual, learn how to articulate. I already stated that not all who claim to be Muslim are not.. Some call for violence others dont. I have made no change in tone when talking about Catholics, Christians or Muslims. All have different groups with some being wrong and some being right.
      - Eric
        
        There is nothing wrong with my articulation, the deficiency lies in your understanding. Let me spell it out for you:
        
        You are accusing Bob, Desp, and Shark of making disparaging remarks about Muslims that are "broad," "general," "hateful," "out of context," etc, yet you do the very same thing with Catholics (which you believe is a different religion than Christianity).
        
        Why then, is it OK for you to "judge" Catholics, but it is not OK for the others to "judge" Muslims? What is the difference? Do ALL Catholics believe the exact same things about everything? Are not Catholics similar to Muslims in that there are different groups among the broader category? Most Catholics would readily agree to the list of what you said were common beliefs between Islam and Christianity. Should not Catholics then be afforded the same respect that you so readily want to give to Muslims?
      - keyboardshark
        
        Deep_Thinker says: "I could show you many Christian passages that show the same thing, when taken out of context. "
        
        OK, show me some passages from the Bible equivalent to:
        "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
        
        If Muslims, who should know the Koran the best, would understand these Koranic verses in their context as not meaning to actually engage in violence, then why are they still committing acts of violence on a regular basis? Something doesn't smell right here.
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        First of all, the correct interpretation is: The only proper recompense for those who fight against God and His Messenger and try to spread evil in the land is to be killed, crucified, or either to have one of their hands and feet cut from the opposite side or to be sent into exile. These are to disgrace them in this life and they will suffer a great torment in the life hereafter.
        
        So we can see two things about that, it says the proper recompense, but doesn't say Muslims should do that to others first, but in self-defense against those who have first fought.. Also, it shows that Allah and God are the same to them.
        
        Ya, I wonder why when large nations go overseas, kill innocent civilians and cause monetary destruction to their countries they would want to take up arms against the "christian" nations?? I wonder….
      - keyboardshark
        
        Deep_Thinker says: "First of all, the correct interpretation is…."
        
        Your "correct interpretation" does not sound any less violent than the original. It still says to "kill or crucify them, or cut their hands or feet off".
        
        "Ya, I wonder why when large nations go overseas, kill innocent civilians and cause monetary destruction to their countries they would want to take up arms against the "christian" nations??"
        
        "Large nations" are not equivalent to Christians, nor do large nations claim to follow the Bible, but Muslims who murder claim they are following the Koran.
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        keyboardshark says "Your "correct interpretation" does not sound any less violent than the original. It still says to "kill or crucify them, or cut their hands or feet off". "
        
        Yet you call for this same violence to take place overseas in the name of Christianity…
        
        keyboardshark says "Large nations" are not equivalent to Christians,
        
        I believe that America, is looked upon as equivalent to a Christian nation. So it is fair in saying that.
      - keyboardshark
        
        Deep_Thinker says: "Yet you call for this same violence to take place overseas in the name of Christianity.."
        
        Huh? Where does the Bible say to murder, crucify, or cut off the hands or feet of others?
        
        "I believe that America, is looked upon as equivalent to a Christian nation. So it is fair in saying that."
        
        While I don't always necessarily agree with the pretext for going to war, you are still failing to see the difference between a nation sending troops into war and Islamic jihadists sending out individuals or small groups to murder civilians. The troops are not going out in the name of Christianity, but the Muslims are assuredly going out in the name of Islam. So no, it is not fair in saying they are equivalent
      - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
        
        (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
        As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
      - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
        
        (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
        
        They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.
      - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
        
        Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
      - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
        
        (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)]
        Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        Wow! I thought only Islam preached violence…
      - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
        
        This is theocracy of OT that was mentioned to you…
      - keyboardshark
        
        Jeff quotes: ""These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor."
        
        The answer is contained within the verse. This was punishment for the cursing by Balaam of Israel, which caused a rebellion against the Lord at Mount Peor. Still not equivalent to the Koran's admonition to "murder, crucify, or cut off their hands or feet", nor is there any mention of a specific event in the Koran directly tied to their admonition to kill. It is just a general statement against:
        
        " …those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land…"
      - keyboardshark
        
        Jeff quotes Numbers 31:7-18
        
        This was a battle in time of war. They were not ordered to "murder" them as the Koran passage indicated, not were they commanded to crucify them or cut off their hands and feet.
        
        Also, don't forget it was Midian who hired Balaam to curse Israel, which was at least part of the reason Israel attacked them::
        
        "4 And Moab said unto the elders of Midian, Now shall this company lick up all that are round about us, as the ox licketh up the grass of the field. And Balak the son of Zippor was king of the Moabites at that time.
        
        5 He sent messengers therefore unto Balaam the son of Beor to Pethor, which is by the river of the land of the children of his people, to call him, saying, Behold, there is a people come out from Egypt: behold, they cover the face of the earth, and they abide over against me:
        
        6 Come now therefore, I pray thee, curse me this people; for they are too mighty for me: peradventure I shall prevail, that we may smite them, and that I may drive them out of the land: for I wot that he whom thou blessest is blessed, and he whom thou cursest is cursed.
        
        7 And the elders of Moab and the elders of Midian departed with the rewards of divination in their hand; and they came unto Balaam, and spake unto him the words of Balak."
        Numbers 22
      - keyboardshark
        
        Jeff quotes Deuteronomy 20:10-14: "As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace."
        
        Yes, it says that they are to offer them terms of peace first. Far different than the Koran's admonition to kill (murder), crucify or cut off their hands and feet. The Bible passage and the Koran passage are hardly equivalent.
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        Or send them into exile.. I'm sure you "forgot" that one.. Oh and it says only to those who have attacked them first.. Another "forgotten" part of the koran verse you quoted…
      - keyboardshark
        
        Deep_Thinker says: "Oh and it says only to those who have attacked them first."
        
        But it is only a general statement, not in response to a specific incident as the Deuteronomy passage. The phrase "…those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land…" could mean almost anyone.
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        Yes it is, read the context beforehand.
      - keyboardshark
        
        I agree that the phrase "those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land…" indicates it is carried out against those who attack them. But my point is, it is so general it could mean almost anyone.
        
        If I disagree that the Koran is divinely inspired, does that make me someone who is "waging war on Allah"? They could interpret it that way, since the description is so open-ended and non-specific. If I try to preach the Gospel of Christ in a Muslim nation, am I "making mischief in the land"? They could certainly interpret it that way, and use that as justification to kill me.
      - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
        
        "If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor"
        
        Key, you and I have different ideas about what living in peace means if you believe bring forced into labor constitutes living in peace. The difference is negligible.
      - keyboardshark
        
        Jeff says: "Key, you and I have different ideas about what living in peace means if you believe bring forced into labor constitutes living in peace."
        
        I didn't say that it meant absolute freedom, I only indicated that it differed from the Koran's blunt admonition to simply kill them. If they accepted Israel's terms of peace, they would at least be allowed to live, which I would think would be preferable to death, as there would always be the hope of escape or being treated well by their captors. Also, the passage did not indicate the length of time they would be forced laborers, so it may not necessarily have been for life.
      - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
        
        The Koran also offered exile as an option which I would say is preferable to being a slave.
      - keyboardshark
        
        Jeff says: "The Koran also offered exile as an option…"
        
        If it did, I do not see it in the passage to which I was referring, unless you mean imprisonment, which doesn't sound like exile to me:
        
        Quran (5:33) – "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
        
        It also does not say they were given a choice of anything before they were attacked. All the decision-making power as to their fate is in the hands of the attackers. Perhaps you were referring to a different verse.
      - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
        
        I agree it is not part of the verse you quoted, however, that does not mean the verse you quoted was accurate.
        
        Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,
        http://quran.com/5/33
        
        Keep in mind I am not defending the Muslims, I consider them a bloodthristy group. However, the Christians in the past were in the same place as the Muslims today and it was all because of the violence sanctioned in the bible.
      - keyboardshark
        
        Jeff says: "I agree it is not part of the verse you quoted, however, that does not mean the verse you quoted was accurate."
        
        Since I do not claim to know Arabic, I cannot say which translation is the 'correct' one, but they do not appear to differ by much, in that the power to control the fate of the victims lies entirely in the hands of the attackers, which differs from the Deuteronomy passage.
        
        "However, the Christians in the past were in the same place as the Muslims today and it was all because of the violence sanctioned in the bible."
        
        I do not know of any time in the past when Christians conducted murder/suicide against individuals simply because they did not believe the Bible.
        
        If you are referring to the Crusades, those were conducted by Roman Catholics, not Christians, and they were originally launched in response to a call from the leaders of the Byzantine Empire for help to fight the expansion into Anatolia of Muslim Seljuk Turks who had cut off access to Jerusalem.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
        
        I'm not defending the Crusades, but the motive for conducting them was far different than present-day Muslims rationale for suicide bombing.
      - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
        
        The Catholics were Christians. Your desire that they are not does not change the reality that they are.
      - keyboardshark
        
        My 'desire" does not have anything to do with whether Roman Catholics are Christians or not. Their beliefs concerning the nature of salvation, the absolute authority of the Bible, the nature of God, and other theological issues, are proof enough in themselves to indicate that they cannot be considered Christians.
      - aceituna
        
        Haven't you noted that the Koran contridicts itself. Both views are present.
      - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
        
        Of course it does. As does the bible.
      - Bobseeks
        
        If you have no evidence, then you are blind, deaf, and stupid, (we all knew that).
      - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
        
        Bobbiesocks, you are in no position to claim that another is blind, deaf, and stupid. You have always shown that you exhibit those tendencies as well.
      - petroskhan1262
        
        So, a Christian on death row for the horrible crime of renouncing his belief in islam doesn't prove anything?
        
        Quran (47:35) – "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"
        
        Quran (48:29) – "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"
        
        (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."
        
        Quran (66:9) – "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."
        
        Yep, real peaceful thoughts there.
  - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
    
    "Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection"
    
    ~ Qu'ran Surat At-Tawbah 9:29 ~ http://quran.com/9
    
    "The reason that Islam suffers from Multiple Personality Disorder is that its founder also suffered from this disorder. I don’t mean this to be taken literally, of course. It is only meant to describe a peculiar phenomenon that went on in Muhammad’s head. When Muhammad first began receiving his "revelations," many of his neighbors in the city of Mecca took it upon themselves to mock and persecute him. Muhammad was a threat both to their immoral lifestyles and to their source of wealth (the pagan idols of the city brought plenty of revenue), and so he had to be stopped, or at least discredited. During this period, Muhammad was humble, devout in many ways, obedient to the message handed down to him, faithful in giving to the poor, and, in general, a fine moral example. In essence, he was like the many fine examples of dedicated Muslims we see in the world today. He preached a religion of peace, and the hadiths we have from this period reflect his peaceful temperament.
    
    Then something happened. Muhammad fled Mecca and moved to Medina, where his political power rapidly increased. Soon he and his followers began raiding caravans to support the fledgling religion,[1] and, while Muhammad’s enemies multiplied, so did his followers. What followed can only be described as a reign of terror for those who refused to submit to Islam. Both men and women were slaughtered for writing satirical poems against Muhammad, and those who left the Islamic faith were exterminated. One woman was murdered in the dark for writing a poem against Muhammad; after she was slain, Muhammad declared that "Two goats won’t butt their heads about her."[2] Hundreds of Jews were beheaded (after surrendering) for standing against Muhammad, and their wives and children were sold into slavery.[3] A blind man who was reportedly more than a hundred years old had his head split open for saying that, if he could only see, he would throw a handful of dust at Muhammad.[4] When a man named Uqba was about to be killed by Muslims and showed concern for his family by asking, "But who will look after my children, O Muhammad?" Muhammad answered by telling the doomed man that Hell would take care of them.[5] (For more on Muhammad’s violent acts, see "Murdered By Muhammad.")"
    
    MORE: http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Wood/two_f…
  - keyboardshark
    
    Deep_Thinker says: "The fundamental Quranic principle is that fighting is allowed only in self-defense…"
    
    Try telling that to the hundreds of thousands of victims who have been murdered in the name of Islam. Islamic terrorists have carried out more than 18,841 terror attacks since 9/11;
    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/TheList.h…
    - Deep_Thinker
      
      More Kool-aid… Sad you believe everything you read without researching the truth. Sad you think that just because some Muslims have misinterpreted the Quran, it applies to Islam in general..
      - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
        
        Hmmm, what about these:
        
        The Koran’s 164 Jihad Verses: K 002:178-179, 190-191, 193-194, 216-218, 244; 003:121-126, 140-143, 146, 152-158, 165-167,169, 172-173, 195; 004:071-072, 074-077, 084, 089-091, 094-095,100-104; 005:033, 035, 082; 008:001, 005, 007, 009-010, 012, 015-017, 039-048,057-060, 065-075; 009:005, 012-014, 016, 019-020, 024-026, 029,036, 038-039, 041, 044, 052, 073, 081, 083,086, 088, 092, 111, 120, 122-123; 016:110; 022:039, 058, 078; 024:053, 055; 025:052; 029:006, 069; 033:015, 018, 020, 023, 025-027, 050; 042:039; 047:004, 020, 035; 048:015-024; 049:015; 059:002, 005-008, 014; 060:009; 061:004, 011, 013; 063:004; 064:014; 066:009; 073:020; 076:008
        
        Details here: http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Themes/jihad…
        
        This is black on white in Qu'ran and unfortunately believed, thought and lived out by the part of Islamic community. Are you going to relegate this substance to "kool-aid" folder for yourself as well?
      - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
        
        The following are only some of the verses in the Qur'an that can and have been used in the history of Islam in support of violence in the name of God and the glories of martyrdom in a holy war.
        
        2:190-193 "Fight in the cause of God those who fight you … And slay them wherever ye catch them … And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in God …"
        
        2:216 "Fighting is prescribed for you and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth and ye know not."
        
        2:224 "Then fight in the cause of God and know that God heareth and knoweth all things."
        
        3:157-158 "And if ye are slain or die in the way of God, forgiveness and mercy from God are far better than all they could amass. And if ye die, or are slain, Lo! It is unto God that ye are brought together."
        
        3:169 "Think not of those who are slain in God's way as dead. Nay, they live finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord."
        
        3:195 "… Those who have … fought or been slain, verily I will blot out from them their iniquities and admit them into Gardens with rivers flowing beneath; a reward from the presence of God …"
        
        4:101 "… For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."
        
        4:74, 75 "Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of God whether he is slain or gets victory, soon shall we give him a reward of great (value). Those who believe fight in the cause of God and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil, so fight ye against the friends of Satan, feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan."
        
        4:89 "They but wish that ye should reject faith as they do, and thus be on the same footing as they. But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of God. But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them…"
        
        4:95 "Not equal are those believers who sit at (at home) and receive no hurt and those who strive and fight in the cause of God with their goods and their persons. God hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than those who sit (at home).
        
        5:36 "The punishment of those who wage war against God and His apostle and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land. That is their disgrace in this world and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter."
        
        5:54 "O ye who believe. Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust."
        
        8:12-17 "Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips off them. This because they contend against God and his apostle. If any contend against God and his apostle, God is strict in punishment … O ye who believe. When ye meet the unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them. If any do turn his back to them on such a day, unless it be a stratagem of war … he draws on himself the wrath of God and his abode is Hell, an evil refuge (indeed)."
        
        8:59-60 "Let not the unbelievers think that they can get the better (of the godly). They will never frustrate (them). Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of God and your enemies and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom God doth know …"
      - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
        
        CTD.
        
        8:65 "O apostle! Rouse the believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred. If a hundred they will vanquish a thousand of the unbelievers, for these are a people without understanding."
        
        9:5 "… fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war) …"
        
        9:14 "Fight them, and God will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame …"
        
        9:29 "Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and his apostle nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth (even if they are) of the people of the Book, until they pay the Jizya [religious tax] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
        
        47:4 "Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers, smite at their necks, at length when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them) … but if it had been God's will, he could certainly have exacted retribution from them (himself), but (he lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the way of God, he will never let their deeds be lost."
        
        61:4 "Truly God loves those who fight in His cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure."
      - keyboardshark
        
        Deep_Thinker says: "Sad you believe everything you read without researching the truth."
        
        I have provided video, news and referenced written evidence. What have you provided? Your own personal spin, apparently.
      - Bobseeks
        
        Not-so-deep-not-so-thinking has no interest in truth, he is just an atheist troll posing as a Christian.
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        Yes, Bobseks, you can see in my heart that I am not a Christian.
        
        As I have noted before, God wants us to love our enemies, not persecute them.
      - petroskhan1262
        
        You are a liar.
        
        No Christian would defend the koran, for it is clearly the work of Satan, and in opposition to the word of God, The Holy Bible.
        
        You are no Christian, and no one here should listen to a thing you have to say. You have proven yourself to be faithless and a liar, a true servant of Satan. Congratulations.
      - Deep_Thinker
        
        I can show you videos of christian violence, but that doesn't provide truth to the claim that christianity is violent.. You provided materials about A select group of muslims who interpret the quran incorrectly. Your "referenced written evidence" is obviously neutral of course, as it provides absolutely NO context to back up the verses supposed violent demeanor…
keyboardshark

Videos on Islamic Violence against women
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icNTs30ZRvQ

CAUTION: GRAPHIC CONTENT!
http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville

I do not know if educating others about them is gossip. I would think it is not. As to bringing them to faith only God can do that through His means and all in God's time as he prepares it Ephesians 2:10
- Deep_Thinker
  
  I agree, so let's just not lump all of them in a bucket and call them evil, and we say we should destroy them as I have heard many on here say.
  - Bobseeks
    
    Not-so-deep: All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of GOD. Only Christians can claim to be good and that only through Christ. The rest are unrepentant and, therefore, evil. Your lack of understanding once again proves the lie of your screen name. Also, destroying a lie is not the same as destroying a people but, you know that, but your purpose here is to deceive as always.
    - Deep_Thinker
      
      And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
  - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
    
    I do recognize there are different Muslims but all of them are of a lie.
keyboardshark

"Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29

2012.05.05 (Iligan, Philippines) – Two cousins are killed when suspected Muslims activists toss a grenade into a restaurant.
2012.05.04 (Yala, Thailand) – Islamic snipers pick off a father in his pickup truck and seriously injure his 7-year-old son.
2012.05.04 (Khar, Pakistan) – Tehrik-e-Taliban suicide bombers at a bazaar send two dozen innocents to Allah.
2012.05.04 (Taraba, Nigeria) – Muslim extremists gun down five villagers.
2012.05.03 (Pattani, Thailand) – Four Buddhists are hunted down and assassinated by Muslim gunmen.
2012.05.03 (Potiskum, Nigeria) – Islamists toss bombs and fire into a cattle market, massacring about sixty innocents."

Weekly Jihad Report
Apr . 21 – Apr. 27
Jihad Attacks:
37

Allahu Akbars*:
3

Dead Bodies:
128

Critically Injured:
244

*Suicide Attacks

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
Vladimir

All the Muslims that I know well enough to talk about it, tell me privately that they do not want to live under Shariah law. They like the freedoms and protections afforded them by the Constitution. The thought of going back to a Muslim country to live is abhorrent to them.
keyboardshark

Yes, you are correct that lying is part and parcel of Islam as a way to advance their cause. As you say, we cannot judge whether Deep_Thinker is a Muslim or not, but it is curious that he would go to such lengths to defend Islam.

Let's pray that he wakes up to the realization of the truth of how dangerous Islam is to the world as a whole. Only God can open his eyes to the truth, as well as the eyes of all who are trapped in the darkness of Islam. It is already happening in some unlikely places: http://www.christianpost.com/news/tens-of-thousan…
- Deep_Thinker
  
  Of course I am not a muslim, and I know very little about it in general. However, not all Muslims are extremists. It is wrong to lump them into a group.
  
  I have tried to separate your view of Islam, that you project onto all Muslims. I do not defend the evil acts they do, and I would pray they all eventually turn to Christ.
  
  However, putting them all in a group, attacking them, occupying their lands, is only brewing up hate against us. That is what I am most concerned with. It seems that we want to have a war on Islam, and that should not be the way we head if we want to convert any Muslims to christianity.
  - keyboardshark
    
    I am not saying all Muslims are evil, not by any means. Some are not yet radicalized, and live a fairly normal life. In fact, there was a Muslim family that lived on the same street we live on, until they moved back to Jordan. I did not know the man of the house, but her wife became friends with my wife, and we had her over to our house along with her 2 children right before Christmas a few years back. Even though she wore the typical head scarf, she seemed pretty normal and friendly to me.
    
    They moved away not long afterwards, so we did not get to the point where we would have had opportunity to share the Gospel with her. But as I said, we did not treat her with disrespect simply because she was a Muslim. We wished only the best for her and her husband.
msjallen

It is religion that destroys the spread of Christianity. When people put their faith in anything besides Jesus Christ and His gospel they will be led astray. One may call themselves Christian but if they have not believed in Jesus Christ as their savior there is no eternal life. Religions do not teach the grace of God for salvation and living the Christian way of life; they have some type of “working” for their salvation and do-goodism to please their god. Every religious system only has dead leaders – Jesus Christ is alive and seated at the right hand of the Father – our savior. It is the risen Christ that confirms His substitutionary spiritual death on the cross. If at God consciousness one is positive to get information about God; He makes sure they get His message of salvation. Religions are the Devil’s Ace Trump.
- bighoss
  
  But, msjallen, the New Testament certainly does not reflect your concept. of what RELIGION is.
  
  James 1:26 & 27:
  
  26If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
  
  27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
  
  Clearly, there is a form of RELIGION that Christians ought to practice. James teaches that one's religion should not be vain, clearly implying that there is a proper form of religion. He goes on to describe, in verse 27, certain things that are part of "pure religion." I tire of the sweeping critiques of "religion" that I often read from the shallow offerings of those who do not seem to care about what the Bible (that they claim to revere) actually says about RELIGION. I often encounter absurdities such as, "I want to be spiritual, but I do not want to have anything to do with religion." That is foolish and ignorant babble.
  - http://youtu.be/zjgBhpanOfQ Despeville
    
    I made this point to her countless of times… To no avail. She has hers "great at many notes" that obviously supersede the Biblical text for her.
- Juanita Gilbo Ricard
  
  Nothing can destroy Christianity. Look back on history-the more God's people were persecuted the more the Gospel was spread.Yes some will be persecuted, some will be tortured, some will be beheaded. The Bible tells us that. But God will prevail and we will receive our reward in Heaven and nothing will ever hurt us again. It is sad though that America which was blessed and ordained of God to be the world's leader, has allowed false doctrine to enter in to our Country. Millions of Muslims have come to know Jesus as Savior and are themselves being persecuted and killed by the radical Muslims. Pray for them.
keyboardshark

Are mosques just simply buildings used for worship by Muslims? Better read this before you answer.

"IRAN TURNING U.S. MOSQUES INTO COMMAND CENTERS

The Revolutionary Guards and its Quds Forces, which run Iran’s terror networks worldwide, have created two special units to undermine the regimes in the Persian Gulf and push America out of the region.

The Guards are using Imam Ali mosques around the globe, including some in the U.S., as terror command centers.

According to a former intelligence officer who served in that specific region, their orders are twofold: Incite uprisings within the Shiite minorities in Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and other countries in the region, and prepare for military operations against those countries’ governmental facilities.

Bahrain and Saudi Arabia are key Gulf allies of the United States. Bahrain hosts the U.S. Navy’s Fifth Fleet, and Saudi Arabia can help stabilize oil markets should a conflict develop with Iran.

The Guards’ intelligence office also runs operations out of mosques and Islamic centers around the world, according to sources. It finances the facilities, guides assets, recruits Muslims for reconnaissance of potential targets in host countries and forms alliances with other Islamic minorities such as Afghans, Pakistanis, Turks for terrorist operations.

In Afghanistan alone, the Guards have more than 1,000 terror cells that help fund the Taliban and al-Qaida and provide intelligence to attack NATO forces with the hope of pushing America out, according to a former intelligence officer.

A former intelligence officer, who defected to a country in Europe, revealed that all Imam Ali mosques worldwide are under the operation of the Guards’ intelligence office.

Noteworthy are the ones in Stockholm and Hamburg. Other mosques are in New Jersey, New York and Ohio, the former officer said." http://www.wnd.com/2012/05/iran-turning-u-s-mosqu…
mesaman

This article would suggest that muslims in Illinois are great neighbors, consorts, and just all around nice people. They might be but they seem powerless to denounce terrorism and international violence, they proselyte and prey on minority members, especially poor, uneducated blacks, and this might be good for the state. I haven't seen much coming out of Illinois since Abraham Lincoln, but that's my bias.
Esteban Cafe

Is not Illinois Mr. Obama's home state, at least as a senator? I hope they are indeed good neighbors.
Bob Williams

My first thought when I saw the picture was "I'll bet all of these little urchins are hers and that none of them have the same papa. I'm also betting that they are on the public dole and living off of the taxpayers."

Anyone want to take that bet? I didn't think so.
Teri

Mormonism is a cult so that makes Illinois in twice as much danger! Learn the truth for yourselves about Mormonism BEFORE we end up with a GOP nominee who will get slaughtered in the upcoming election in November. You know Obama is going to use this and every thing else he can to get re-selected. Vote for Newt in your upcoming Primaries and get us to a brokered convention so we can get a credible threat to Obama and someone the whole GOP can get behind to DEFEAT that Marxist and remove his policies!
http://carm.org/mormonism to learn what Mormonism really is.
Bud

Or even better yet: Vote for Ron Paul.
OldSchoolAmerican

Note: As you read this information, understand that I studied theology so I know a lot about world Religions, I have practiced Catholicism, Christianity, and even Buddhist believes. The Islamic Religion is a scary one to me. It is the ONLY Religion that has a built in Constitution that vetoes our US Constitution who practice and live the Muslim way or life. If the Muslim doesn't accept the Constitution, he is NOT a Muslim in the eyes of the Clerics. Some facts about Islam and the Qur'an for your pleasure. This information comes directly from the Qur'an but is translated in English for us by a person who walked away from Islam because he/she felt it was wrong to live in America and be here to destroy the same nation that had offered him/her so much: Jihad definition from the Qur'an, "Removing obstacles which stand against the propagation of the Islamic Da'wah (act of forcing Islam on non-believers) to the people. By the way, since this is part of the Muslim Constitution, the US Constitution is an "OBSTACLE" so it must go when they get the numbers to over throw it, as they have in many places in Illinois, and they did in Armenia back in the 1920s. By the way, Armenia was a Christian Nation like the US, and it does not exist anymore because Muslims destroyed and it is now part of Turkey. Don't even try to preach Christianity in Detroit door to door like the Jehovah's Witnesses, it is forbidden and can get you arrested. All Americans in the eyes of Muslims or Islam are considered "Kafirs" or NON Muslims, since we deny the Aqeedah (believers of Allah, a Muslim) we are cursing Allah and thus are guilty of concealing the truth." Don't get mad at me, I am just writing what I was given. Remember the Quar'an has a built in Constitution that "all Muslims must put above all other Constitutions and pledge their honor and life to it and not the US Constitution, America's "law of the Land." So you might ask yourself, why are they here? Well, remember Armenia. Now, one more quote from the Quar'an's Islamic Constitution: "Article 184, #3: "States with whom we do not have treaties, the colonist states, such as Britain, AMERICA, and France, and those states that have ambitions in our lands (yes, you read this right), such as Russia, are considered to be potentially war like states. All precautions must be taken against them and it is not permitted to establish diplomatic relationships with them (didn't Obama spend billions of US tax dollars to set up Libya, Egypt, and Yemen to name only three new Islamic Nation States created using the US military and my money, and he must have known they would NOT be our allies or sell us the oil they now control, so you still think Obama is NOT a Muslim?). Finally the reason these 'NICE?" Muslims you say that live here act so nice, is found in Article 179 of the Quar'an's Constitution: "Political maneuvering (yes, that means telling lies) is dependent of concealing (lying) one's aims and disclosing one's actions." So when do you want to start praising Allah or die because the Islam has become the law of the Land in the US? Have a nice scary day because we are in bed with the (you fill in this blank), thanks to Obama.