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marriage

Civil Unions Die, Traditional Marriage Wins

In back-to-back victories in the culture war on traditional marriage, Colorado’s civil union bill died in the Colorado House on Tuesday and North Carolina voters decided to uphold the biblical one woman-one man marriage definition.

By a margin of 61 percent to 39 percent, North Carolinians voted to become the 31st state to pass a constitutional ban on gay marriage.

Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, applauded North Carolina voters for joining voters in 30 other states in upholding the historic and natural definition of marriage as the union of one man and one woman.

"At every opportunity, the American people have demonstrated a deep appreciation for the unique benefits that marriage between a man and a woman brings to families and society,” Perkins says. “They recognize that marriage is the only kind of union that results in natural procreation and keeps a mother and father together to raise the children produced by their union.”

As Perkins sees it, this overwhelming support for marriage is the reason why President Obama and liberal congressional candidates across the country have not expressed open support for same-sex marriage.

Continue reading at www.charismanews.com
 
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  • Anita

    Oh, oh Odumbo if this keeps up you are going to have to flip flop again.

    • Patriot87

      Like A Fish Out Of Water…

      • daves

        Why not just go with the Biblical definition of marriage?

        Matthew 25

        25:1 "Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins
        who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.

        25:2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

        25:3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them,

        25:4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

        25:5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.

        • Eric

          Not to doubt your inestimable biblical wisdom, but where exactly is the "definition" in this passage?

          • daves

            Well it is obvious it is not between one man and one woman.

          • Eric

            It is also obvious that it is not between two men or two women, so what's your point? Marriage is a picture of Christ and the Church, i.e., the two becoming one. It is not about sexual preference, it is about completedness. The Church fulfills the role of a Bride for the Son, while the Son fulfills the role of a Husband for the Bride. In the same way, a husband and wife "complete" each other, in that what they cannot do alone, they CAN do together (i.e. conceive, birth, and train up sequential generations, Malachi 2:13-16). Incidentally, this is the very thing that same-sex couples CANNOT do.

          • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

            Thank you for saying this. Only the non-believer would come up with a statement like that. They CANNOT understand the things of the Spirit.

          • keyboardshark

            The Biblical definition of marriage is most assuredly between one man and one woman:

            ""So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." (Gen. 1:27)

            " Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." (Gen. 2:24).

            "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."
            (Matthew 19:4-6)

            "But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh."

            There is absolutely no provision in the Bible whatsoever for a marriage union between two persons of the same sex, or between multiple partners.

          • Linda F.

            You have absolutely *no* idea what you're talking about, daves. Then again, that's not exactly a new thing.

            Here's the Biblical definition of marriage:

            And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.

            And Adam said: “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.”

            Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. (Genesis 2:21-24)

            But hey! Why should you care about GOD'S definition of marriage? I mean, He *only* created it. Why should you care that He's the Lord of the universe and the Creator of everything?

            But in all seriousness: God does not need to consult you or anyone else on this subject … or on any other subject, for that matter. *He* created marriage, and *He* has clearly defined it as a lifelong union between one man and one woman. If you don't like it, talk to Him.

            Good luck. You're going to need it.

          • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

            Thumbs-up!

          • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

            What you are trying to apply thin to doesn't apply at all. This is a real stretch. What are you trying to come up with here?

          • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

            I was thinkin' the same thing.
            Where is this going?

        • Evermyrtle

          This has nothing to do with marriage. It is examples of not being prepared, since we have already been the wisdom and the instruction to live our lives according to HIS WORD. The Bible tells us man and woman, not man and man nor woman and woman.

          • Linda F.

            The fact that daves would stoop so low as to deliberately take a Scripture out of context only proves that he is desperate, because he realizes that he has no leg to stand on.

        • M Green

          Oh, sure. And next you're going to quote the Bible and tell us that it promotes slavery (completely skipping the end of Genesis and the whole book of Exodus), that the example of Communion given in the new testament is proof that the Bible condones cannibalism, and quote sections about Abraham with his son, Isaac and Solomon ordering the baby cut in half as child sacrifice. What, did you miss the heading that said "PARABLE of the Wise and Foolish Virgins" that's in most Bibles, or the fact that Matthew contains a LOT of parables that are called such by Jesus and the people who were listening to them?

          • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

            Here's another non-believer.

        • Evermyrtle

          The devil comes quoting Scriptures.

    • Kalev

      He was for gay marriage before he was against it then just yesterday he was for gay marriage again. Now if the religious black community will realize this maybe they'll withhold there ballots of support for him, or they'll prove just how hypocritical they have become.

  • Evermyrtle

    I truly thank GOD that NC honored HIS teachings

    Matt. 12:30 He that is not withe me is against me;he that gathers not with me scatters abroad.

    • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

      I think they said it in a much stronger way. Now its part of their Constitution, and now very difficult to change.

    • C AV8tor

      Righteous invocation of a Biblical verse that is unambiguous in setting the record straight, whatever the topic!

  • Evermyrtle

    Matt. 5:43-45
    43. You have heard that it hath been said, "Thou shall love your neighbor, and hate you enemy,
    44. But i say unto you, "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you,
    45. That you may be the children of your FATHER which is in heaven: for HE makes HIS sun to rise on the evil and and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

    Hate is the world's greatest enemy because that is what GOD'S arch enemy, Satan produces.

    Love it the world's greatest friend because that iS what is produced by OUR GOD AND FATHER and can heal all wounds..

    • FleshProfitsNothing

      Mal_2:16 For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.
      Lev 20:23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.
      Psa 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
      I had submitted 7 more verses showing GOD hates. Why do people like you ignore the fact that GOD not only loves but HATES?

      • Evermyrtle

        Actually I was referring and believe my scriptures were referring, to our hate, for people, for each other, much of which is caused by jealousy, greed and self righteousness. This evil comes from Satan.

        HE made the universe and everything in it and it was good. The evil came about through Satan when he has spoiled everything possible. GOD hates evil and we should hate evil When we hate people we are going against GOD'S will for us. We should hate the evil but love the person and pray for that person to come to, and accept GOD and HIS SON JESUS CHRIST.

        Our children, our friends, all people sin, do we hate them because of it? I don't know what may be in the hearts of other people, but I hate the sin in my life, in all the people of the world, but I promise I do not hate any of these people. I pray for all of and for our sins but hate the people who sin, if we did we would hate everybody because we all sin and do evil, but do we hate them? No, we love them in spite of their sin..

        I do not understand every verse, but it is GOD'S WORD and therefore I will accept every verse.

        Hate of all things good is what is destroying this world, what is wrong with it now..

      • Evermyrtle

        If it is you choice to live by your hate scriptures, OK but remember you do not find any hate directed at man, but at the evil, that man allows to dwell and grow in his heart. We still are supposed to love the person and pray for that person and help that one, if possible to see the error of their ways. This way you may be able to lead someone to GOD, thereby winning great favor with GOD. It is impossible to win a sinner with hate, but with love of all things good, are possible.

  • Linda F.

    Obama will claim to support anything if he thinks it will increase his chances of having a second term.

    • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

      That's not only Odumba but probably vast majority of politicians, judges, mayors and aldermen in this country and beyond.

  • Peter

    What disgust me seeing two peole of the same sex kissing. I want to throw up. we expect to pay for contraceptives for the people like Susan Fluke the money would be well spent on counselling on gaysand lesbians back to normal way of life.

    • Chris

      Fool

      • JPM

        Chris it is the "fool" who says there is no God.

    • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

      I thought the name was 'Flake.' Besides, the money would be better spent at the horse races.

  • msjallen

    I pray that more people wake up to the fake in the WH since he took his stand on same sex marriage. As far as the black community goes more are conservative in the way they live but have been under the control of black racist leaders who fill them with lies to depend on the government and how much the whites don't like them. I have found that white people are more acceptable towards the black than they are towards the white race. I have experienced this in the corporations where I have worked. I have also had a black boss who was one of the best and many black friends whom I cherish to this day. If this won't open their eyes to vote against 0 then I doubt nothing will.

    • JPM

      There is but one race, that's the human race. If you are in a hospital and ever need a transfusion you won't get monkey blood or cow or horse blood to save your life, but human blood. Don't try to say that blood types mean there are different races because these types are in all groups of humanity. Also don't try to state that God created different races at the Tower of Babble, all He did was to confuse their languages. We all came from common stock, the original two, Adam and Eve.

  • Chris

    Yup – Christians are truly homophobic. Reading today about the brilliant mathematician Turing who committed suicide because of his forced chemical castration.

    Pure hate and ignorance is all you have. Nasty as nasty gets.

    • petroskhan1262

      Homophobic? There is no fear involved. Christians disagree with the behavior, and find it objectionable for a variety of reasons. How does that have anything to do with fear?

      It all goes back to standards. Liberals have an intense and overwhelming aversion to anything resembling standards or morals. Everything is okay, nothing is wrong. No one is to be criticized for any behavior, except perhaps for those who commit the unpardonable sin of caring enough to be critical.

      Pure hate and ignorance? Nice try. But toss that accusation at the ones you venerate; it will stick better. I am frequently amused at the hypocritical double standards employed by liberals. Screaming about intolerance and hatred…while being so intolerant and hateful.

      If liberals are so tolerant, and non-judgmental, then why can't you tolerate the fact that I disagree with you?

      • daves

        If you are not afraid, then why do you want to tell them what they cannot do?

        • Evermyrtle

          Why do you want to tell them what they cannot do? Who were you referring to? I do not see an instance where anyone telling anybody what the can or cannot do. I do read where they are stating the things that we are expected to do as Christians. But you are correct in saying, it is not our right to tell anyone in general what they cannot do. We are still free enough and according to GOD'S will, we do as we please, a right HE has given us.

          • JPM

            You are right anyone can do want they want, but there will be a price to pay if it is wrong according to God's word. There is also a scripture that states that if someone is doing something against God's word are we see it and don't warn them then their blood is on our hands. We are truly our brothers keeper.

          • Evermyrtle

            Correct if we live HIM or against HIM according to our desires. We will be rewarded good for good, evil for evil, I believe should be understood, when we make our choices.

        • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

          You can do whatever you want, but you'll also have to pay the price for it.

    • mesaman

      You wear your pure hate and ignorance cradled on your bosom, like a nursemaid. And you have the audacity to name Christians as the culprit. A new label for you; Hypocrit!

    • keyboardshark

      Chris says: "Christians are truly homophobic. Reading today about the brilliant mathematician Turing who committed suicide because of his forced chemical castration. "

      Show me some evidence that Christians are calling for the castration of homosexuals, if that is what you are implying by lumping the two sentences together. I see no connection between the two statements.

      Christians do not "hate" homosexuals. Those who would encourage them to continue in their destructive lifestyle are the ones doing them harm. Christians care enough about them to tell them the truth–namely, that they are living a sinful, destructive lifestyle that results in a much shorter lifespan and will end with God's judgment upon them.

      There is much hope for repentant homosexuals who come out of the lifestyle, as they come to know the forgiveness offered by the shed blood of Jesus Christ. The Gospel offers freedom from slavery to sin of any kind, including homosexuality, and the sure hope of eternal life. Many have already come out of the lifestyle and found forgiveness.

      http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=284474752…
      (An uncompromising yet compassionate look at the tragic consequences of the homosexual lifestyle. It features former homosexuals telling their own stories.)

      • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

        The Dutch parliament on Tuesday called for an investigation into reports that Catholic clerics ordered castrations of young males in the 1950s in an attempt to cure their homosexuality. Dutch MPs raised questions in parliament over a weekend report in Dutch newspaper NRC Handelsblad saying boys from a Catholic boarding school had been castrated.
        http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2012/03/20/du…

        In Germany, Paragraph 175 of the German Penal Code was used to "relocate" and eventually exterminate up to 220,000 German homosexuals, after submitting them to castration and "hormonal reversal" experiments (presumably to enable them to become "ex-gays"). Unlike other groups imprisoned by the Nazis, when the concentration camps were liberated, homosexuals remained prisoners in the camps–by order of the Allies.
        http://www.iwgonline.org/docs/persecution.html

        • keyboardshark

          Jeff says: "…Catholic clerics ordered castrations of young males in the 1950s in an attempt to cure their homosexuality."

          But my statement was, "Show me some evidence that Christians are calling for the castration of homosexuals…" Catholics are not Christians, not to mention that these castrations occurred in the 1950's, which is not very recent.

          The second incident you cite, regarding the Nazi concentration camps, also does not have anything to do with Christians. The Nazis, who were going to exterminate the homosexuals, were certainly not Christians, and the Allies who left some homosexuals in prison did not represent Christians, only the allied military alliance. While both of these actions were wrong, this is certainly not proof that Christians are calling for the castration of gays, which was the original implication Chris's statements.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Such nonsense. Of course Catholics are Christians. They may have different doctrines, but they believe Jesus is god.

            The same holds for the Germans. They were Catholics and therefore, most certainly Christians as well.

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            Dixon,

            Do yourself a favor and do not ridicule yourself than you already are… You have no idea what you generalize and gloss over in your superficiality and ignorance.

            "They may have different doctrines, but they believe Jesus is god."

            Mormons believe that as well and just as Roman Catholics and by their codified official doctrine are not Christians just as official teaching of Rome is not Christianity either. It is absolutely preposterous and ridiculous to see your pronouncements about what is true and what is not in a worldview that you deny a priori as false. Comedy of errors.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Humpty, any advice you give will be given its proper consideration and more than likely be laughed at.

            I know it drives you crazy to consider that Catholics are Christians, but your disdain for the idea does not change it.

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            Schizoid my advice is for the reader even though it is in response to you for this is how the forum works.
            I know you will fail to notice irrationality of your rant as you mind is given over. Nothing drives me "crazy" especially from crazy like you. You are simply irrational.

          • petroskhan1262

            He is not "simply irrational." He is also evil, and a liar. Which anyone who has read more than two of his posts will easily conclude.

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            Yes, indeed. He is given over to satan for destruction as far as we can see. Of course that is what we can see…

          • petroskhan1262

            Well, yes, there is that caveat of it being what we can see. However, I personally see no difference between writing here, and talking to others, either in public or private. It's all communication, the transfer of thoughts into words, intended for others, in an attempt to convey information and influence opinion, thoughts or actions.

            For what we post here (and elsewhere), we will be judged just as much as for the things we say. Looking at what Jeff has posted, and reading the Bible, I am not optimistic about his chances for salvation.

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            Neither am I and I appreciate your voice.
            Please do remember that reprobation is also in God's ends as Proverbs 16:4

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Sure, of course it was. You are being even more delusional than normal, Humpty. Been drinking your canard early again?

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            You are moron and that is a biblical description of your futile stupidity.

          • petroskhan1262

            You do know that you're wasting your time, arguing with someone who has clearly shown that he is nothing more than an evil liar, who will throw out the most ridiculous and inane falsehoods, in an attempt to sidetrack you from the real argument? It's a rather weak ploy; please don't fall for it.

            And in the end, he's really not worth your time.

          • keyboardshark

            There is a method to my madness, or a madness to my method, or something like that. Maybe I am just mad.

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            The only method is to God the Holy Spirit and not to you who might or might not use you as means to His end.

          • petroskhan1262

            Well, as long as you're certain…LOL

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            Yes, that is who Schizoid Dixon is as so many others noticed as well. Yet schizophrenic like him must assume that everyone is wrong because they are "stupid" theists even though he operates with 1500 English words and irrational and illogical and under eductaed simpleton's mind..

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Yes, shockingly, people who share in your delusion agree with you on the issue. What a revelation.

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            As usual nothing to add but your moronic rant.

          • keyboardshark

            Jeff says: "Of course Catholics are Christians. They may have different doctrines, but they believe Jesus is god."

            They may believe Jesus is God, but they do not believe He is the one and only Redeemer. They believe Mary is also a co-redemptrix, contrary to what the Bible says:

            "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
            Acts 4:12

            "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:"
            Hebrews 1:3

            They also do not believe Jesus was the only sinless man, because they also believe Mary was sinless.

            "21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

            22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:"
            I Peter 2

            "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
            I John 1:8

            Plus they also believe the Pope speaks infallibly, which is contrary to Revelation 22:

            "18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:"

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            I think you are trying to explain colors of the painting to a man who is blind from his birth.
            Futile from the beginning and you will find this sooner or later.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Which is what I said. They have different doctrine. But that does not change the fact that they believe that Jesus is god which is what makes one a Christian.

          • keyboardshark

            Jeff says: "But that does not change the fact that they believe that Jesus is god which is what makes one a Christian."

            "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."
            James 2:19

            "23 And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out,

            24 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God."
            Mark 1

            "33 And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice,

            34 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God."
            Luke 4

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            You are arguing from a religious perspective. I am arguing from a secular one. I do not argue that Christians do not accept that all who proclaim to believe are Christians. However, just because you do not accept them, does not mean they are not Christians. Many Catholics do not consider Protestants to be Christians.

            Quoting bible verses that an Atheist does not believe came from any god does not prove anything.

          • Despeville

            No Dixon you are ranting from a clueless neophyte "perspective" wich for the most part consists of imbecilic canards your have plagiarized from other internet morons which have been refuted in writing and published on ages ago. Problem is that neither you nor morons you copy have any inkling nor ambition to read and study in depth subjects you mumble about before you open your rubbish dispensing mouths.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Humpty, there are people who spent their lives studying the Qu'ran or astrology or Alchemy. They may be experts on the topic, but it is ultimately useless information. That same is true of the bible. You might as well study up on what the flat earthers believe.

            The bible is filled with fables that cannot occur. You believe in a delusion. Your opinion is meaningless.

          • JPM

            Jeff, what makes you opinion any more correct than the one you call Humpty. It is only your opinion. Still praying for you.

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            You are a moron Dixon and have no clue what you mumble about in your moronic, spasmodic given over mind.

          • keyboardshark

            Jeff says: "Quoting bible verses that an Atheist does not believe came from any god does not prove anything."

            True, it may not prove anything to an atheist, but if we are trying to decide whether someone or some group is Christian or not, then we have no choice but to quote from the Bible. Being a Christian is a religious concept, not a secular one.

            If a person or group claims to be Christian, then we have to ask the question: What defines whether someone is a Christian or not? Secular arguments? Catholic vs. Protestant arguments? No, the Bible itself defines it.

            If someone claims to be a Christian, and we can show some key beliefs regarding the nature of God or the nature of salvation that they hold which conflict with the Bible, then we must question whether they are what they claim to be. I know of no other way to decide whether those who claim to be Christians are likely to be Christian.

            Notice i say "likely", because we cannot see the heart of an individual to know for certain whether they have been born again. But if we are talking about a group that claims to be Christian, such as the RCC, then we would not examine every individual within the group, but rather we would examine their doctrinal positions to see whether their positions square with what the Bible teaches.

            Catholics may claim that Protestants are not Christians, and I do not know what arguments they would use, but they would have to have strong evidence from the Bible , not Catholic writings, that would show a material conflict between Protestant doctrine and the Bible. I presented some very clear passages from the Bible that conflict with RCC teachings, hence my statement that Catholics are not Christians.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            So if a Protestant does not believe in the bible or in your god in the exact same way as you do, they are not a Christian? Is Daves a Christian? Bighoss? Despeville? Bobseeks? MsAllen? How about Ted? They all hold differing points of view of the bible. However, the biggest flaw in your argument is that ALL believe their view is the correct version of the bible. When you say you must go to the bible, that is exactly what they do. You can say they are wrong, however, they will retort that you are wrong.

            The Catholics and therefore the Germans during WWII may have held an incorrect view of Christianity, but they were certain they were Christians and that their views were accurate. You can argue that they might have been wrong, but you cannot argue that they were not Christians.

          • JPM

            None of us has a perfect view of scripture and we are all fallible (including the Pope) concerning God's word. Many times both beliefs are correct depending on ones point of view. However, that is why we must depend upon the Holy Spirit to teach us. It is more than belief in Jesus. It is accepting Him as your Lord and Savior and the emphasis Is on "Lord. If He is your Lord He is automatically your Savior. If you will abide in Me, I will abide in you and My word will abide in you.

          • keyboardshark

            Jeff says: "So if a Protestant does not believe in the bible or in your god in the exact same way as you do, they are not a Christian?"

            No, I do not mean that at all. We are not saved by having a perfect understanding of doctrine. Plus, it is a different situation when examining the beliefs of a group, such as the RCC, vs. examining whether an individual is born again or not.

            "Is Daves a Christian? Bighoss? Despeville? Bobseeks? MsAllen? How about Ted? "
            I would not be able to determine that for two reason: Number one, I cannot see what is in their heart, and Number two, I do not know them personally, so I cannot know how they conduct their personal lives. I can make an educated guess as to whether they are a Christian or not, based on what they post online, but that would be as far as it could go.

            We also have to keep in mind that someone who has recently become saved and has left a situation where they were previously taught false doctrine, may still cling to some of those false doctrines for a period of time even though they are truly born again. Over time, we would then expect that their understanding of the truth would grow, and they would eventually abandon those false doctrines.

            When we are discussing whether a group, such as the RCC, is truly Christian, then we have a different situation. We can then examine the doctrinal positions of that group and compare those positions to the Bible. If they differ in key areas concerning the nature of God or the nature of salvation, then we can be fairly certain that that group or organization is not actually Christian.

            This does not mean each group has to have a particular understanding of doctrines that are less clear, such as the timing of the return of Christ, or the age of the earth, for example. But the Bible is very clear that God created the universe, that He is all powerful and all knowing. It is also clear that Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh, and that He and He alone, not man himself, or Mary, is the only redeemer.

            And the Bible is also clear that it alone has the truth, and that we are not to add to nor take away from its words. If a group differs on these points, then it is a clear indication that there is a serious question about their claim to be Christian.

            All groups may believe their view is correct, but we can test their assertion by comparing what they consider truth to what the Bible declares. When we test the RCC doctrines against the clear teachings of the Bible we find them wanting. Most groups do sincerely believe they are correct in their understanding, but it's certainly possible to be sincerely wrong.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            And it is most certainly possible that your view is wrong as well.

          • keyboardshark

            Yes, if it were simply my own view, I could indeed be wrong. That is why I trust what the Bible says, rather than what my own fallible mind or the minds of other fallible men say.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            You are completely relying on your own mind. When you say you trust what the bible says, you are using your own view of what that verse means.

          • keyboardshark

            No, I am reading each verse with an ordinary understanding of the English language, while comparing different verses with each other to determine the proper context. Since the Bible was written in Hebrew and Greek, I also use a Concordance and Interlinear Bible at times to go back to the original languages, which can be helpful with certain passages.

            I do not need to rely on my own opinions of what a verse says, though on occasion I will offer a plain language explanation of a passage for clarification. Of course, I am not perfect and my explanation could be in error, but it would be rare that any explanation would go beyond what the plain understanding of the passage is.

            I seldom need a lengthy explanation of a passage because the meaning of the passage in most cases is readily apparent from the language of the verse itself. The verses I have quoted above did not need further explanation, although I prefaced them with a statement indicating the point I was trying to make. For example:

            "They also do not believe Jesus was the only sinless man, because they also believe Mary was sinless.

            "21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

            22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:"
            I Peter 2

            "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
            I John 1:8
            (Shark, 1 day ago)

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            You are navelcentric, solipsistic idolater Dixon with no base or tools to say anything meaningful or factual about what you imagine you can…

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Navels, gonads, etc. You are absurdly fixated on the human body.

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            Nope, you are under-educated belly worshiper. You are trapped in the cage that soon enough will rot 6 ft under…but you will be forced to move on.

            "If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe." ~ Soren Kierkegaard

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. "
            – Frietrich Nietzsche

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            You will and already are ending up like Nietzsche…

          • Joe Anzilotti

            There is no redeeming value to this Nietzsche quote Jeff. Insofar as he (Nietzsche) ended up a lunatic himself. How about thinking objectively Jeff? It might be a novelty to you, I know, but give it a try.

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            The funny thing is that Dixon never ever read anything from Nietzsche beyond the quotes he plastered. :) Dixon the dilettante.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            He probably got the quote from some website, and that without even knowing anything about Nietzsche and how he, unfortunately, ended up. Very characteristic for Jeff–who, likely, is unable to accomplish much without his smart phone nearby. A pawn of Satan.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Jeff, can you be creative and use another quote? I have seen you drag this one up, at least twice before. If the quote was any good, I would not mind seeing it again. Get a life Jeff. Don't let the goads hit you on the way out.

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            Joe, have you noticed his preoccupation with mental asylums?
            Rather consistent for inconsistent guy like Jeffo the schizoid :)

          • Joe Anzilotti

            How about some good St Augustine quotes? Or Justin Martyr quotes? Real stuff.

          • Despeville

            Believing that Christ is God does not make anyone Christian oblivious schizoid… You are operating below a level of a freshman in high school. The Scriptures teaches that even demons believe that and to no avail and certainly there is no demon Christians… Dixon why don't you realize that you are an obnoxious dilettante and have no clue about any doctrine Roman or Christian or Mormon…

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Of course it does. No other religion believes that Jesus is a god. Only Christians believe that bit of nonsense. The Jews and Muslims believe that Jesus existed, but they do not believe he is god. Only the Christians believe that. So, if one believes that Jesus is god, he is a Christian.

            Your opinion of me is one of the least important concerns I have or ever will have.

            I consider you a blowhard. I am sure that keeps you up at nights.

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            What you are sure is a joke just like your neophytism. You are a moron (εμωρανθησαν) and a serial loon on a run.

            "No other religion believes that Jesus is a god"

            That is your serial imbecilism on display again Dixon. Ask any Mormon and they will tell you that they believe that too although that is different from what you try to mumble in your nauseating, stupefying ignorance.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            That is because Mormons are a part of Christianity.

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            Hahhahaahahah like I said you are a moron.

          • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

            Where is their doctrine different?

          • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

            It's nonsense, and you know it. If it comes from those web sites, it's nonsense.

          • petroskhan1262

            You ever notice that Jeff constantly throws out the same arguments, ignoring the fact that they have been refuted many, many times? I truly cannot count how many times he's tried that tired old line of BS about the nazi's being "Christian", or catholics being Christian. Both are easily proven to be false, but he clings to them as though they are pearls of such great wisdom.

            You are wasting your time trying to get through to him, for the simple reason that he doesn't want you to. He has chosen a life of sinful ignorance, willfully and with forethought. He has turned his back on God and His Holy Spirit, and is beyond redemption. It is sad, yes, but it is of his own doing, and I personally feel no sympathy or pity for him.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Since you have not refuted anything, that is an amusing comment.

          • petroskhan1262

            …right…

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Stating that Catholics are not Christians is not refuting anything. Stating that they have different opinions about Christianity than your opinion about what the correct view is is not refuting anything. You quote the bible, they quote the bible.

            All it shows is that there are many different ways of interpreting the book that supposedly was inspired or written by the most intelligent creature in the universe.

          • petroskhan1262

            First off, I don't need to refute anything. Especially a blatant lie.

            When it comes to the subject of the Bible, there is no such thing as an "opinion." There is fact, and there is fiction. One either follows the commands of God, or one does not. Christians do, catholics do not. QED. I have no need to prove that catholics are not Christians, they do a fine job of that on their own.

            And as for "interpreting" the Bible, therein lies another mistake. The Bible is clear, concise and direct. No need to "interpret". There again is where idiots like catholics get themselves into trouble.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Protestants who supported Hitler

            Let us look at three of the most distinguished German Protestant theologians–Gerhard Kittel, Paul Althaus, and Emanual Hirsch. These men were highly respected, extremely erudite, uncommonly productive, and internationally known professors, each at a different, first-class university.

            Professor Robert P. Erickson did an unusually comprehensive investigation of the three theologians' writings, utterances, and activities as they pertain to Nazism and the Jewish Question. He reports his findings in a book, Theologians Under Hitler. If anyone should know whether submission or opposition is demanded of the followers of the living Christ when confronted with a regime as totally reprehensible as that of the Nazis, surely it would be these theologians.

            What conclusions did Erickson reach as to the stance of the three men who would be expected to exemplify the ultimate in the embodiment of those noble values that millions of Sunday school children are taught attach to Christian folk? They are grim:

            "They each supported Hitler openly, enthusiastically, and with little restraint." In fact, they deemed it the Christian thing to do. They "saw themselves and were seen by others as genuine Christians acting upon genuine Christian impulses." Furthermore, all three tended "to see God's hand in the elevation of Hitler to power." Hirsch was a member of the Nazi party and of the SS. The Nazi state, he said, should be accepted and supported by Christians as a tool of God's grace. To Althaus, Hitler's coming to power was "a gift and miracle of God." He taught that "we Christians know ourselves bound by God's will to the promotion of National Socialism."

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Kittel and a group of twelve leading theologians and pastors issued a proclamation that Nazism is "a call of God," and they thanked God for Adolf Hitler. Kittel was a party member and he himself proudly claimed that he was a good Nazi. He explains that he did not join it as a result of pressure or for pragmatic reasons but because he concluded that the Nazi phenomenon was "a völkisch renewal movement on a Christian, moral foundation." He accorded Christianity a place of honor in Nazi Germany precisely because of its position on the Jewish Question. He said he was speaking for other theologians too when he maintained that agreement with state and Führer was obedience to the law of God.

            These theologians were drenched in anti-Semitism. For example, throughout the whole of the Nazi era, Kittel's writings, Erickson has determined, "correspond to and support Nazi politics, including all of the policies on the Jewish question, with the possible exception of genocide," but one is led to wonder. He never spoke out against extermination. Indeed, he actually propounded what was purported to be a theologically solid Christian justification for the oppression of the Jews, whom he referred to as "refuse."

            Let me quote what a well know German Protestant Pastor at the time had to say about Hitler's regime "We again feel ourselves created beings. Profession and Social standing, race and nationality are today again being regarded by us as important facts!" . . . He goes on to tell his congregation about the "divine call in the (Hitler's) spiritual revolution which is beginning to take place throughout the whole of our nation" – (Pastor Neimoeller, The First Commandment, Pg. 58-59).

            During the Nazi regime, the Protestant Church in general supported Hitler. The Protestant clergymen who wound up as inmates at Dachau were those who were anti-Nazi, such as the Reverend Martin Niemöeller, one of the founders of the Confessional Church. Other Protestant ministers who were incarcerated in the Dachau concentration camp were Ernst Wilm and Kurt Scharf. Although there were far fewer Protestants who were persecuted by the Nazis than there were Catholics and Jews, Germany's Protestant Church has admitted using slave labour during World War II, and has pledged to pay compensation to Nazi victims. The admission came after revelations that Berlin church parishes set up a forced labour camp during the war, and used workers from mainly central and eastern Europe for tasks such as grave-digging. "This was complicity in a regime based on force and removed from the rule of law. We accept this guilt," said church council president Manfred Kock.

            Again Peter F. Wiener in these regard confirms for us that that "After the Nazis came to Power, the Lutherans supported Hitler. To them the views as ordained by Luther was infinitely more important than the Church or Christianity". Again he tells us "When the people asked why the German people have never shown any sign of revolt against Hitler and his gang, I have usually referred my questioners to Luther, who was the first to say that even against the most unjust ruler the people have never a right to revolt." (Ibid, Pg. 87-88).

            Let me conclude by quoting for the last time Mr. Peter F. Wiener "Throughout the Last war (WWI) and throughout the present one (WWII), the Germans have committed atrocities which are impossible to imagine by those who have merely read or heard about them. This is teaching hatred, but an undeniable though most unpleasant fact. Not once in either war has any section of the Lutheran clergy protested — such as have the churches of Norway and other occupied counties where the Gestapo is at least as strong as inside Germany. With the exception of a few refugee pastors in Britain, I do not know of any section of the German Protestant Confessional Church whose pastors have refused to preach, to serve, to ordain and bless the atrocities and horrors committed by the German armies and their leaders. These facts are unpleasant and horrible. I maintain that we can understand them and explain them only if we look at the dark figure from whom the German Lutheran clergy has for four centuries taken their orders: Martin Luther" (Ibid, Pg. 98-99).
            http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/p…

          • petroskhan1262

            If you have a point, you've thus far failed to make it.

            Citing a catholic website, talking about about the actions of obviously evil and misguided self-serving sycophants has nothing to do with the actions of Christians.

            You are one severely twisted individual, and you either have no clue what a Christian is, or simply don't care, and like a mentally handicapped monkey with a hammer, just want to smash anything you don't understand.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Your inability to understand information posted is your problem, not mine.

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            You have much bigger problems wacko loon.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Humpty, you believe in a delusion. Calling someone else a wacko is ironically idiotic.

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            Not when that somebody is an idiot and a serial moron like you.

          • petroskhan1262

            Oh, I understand it. It's just that your citations are both pointless and irrelevant.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            As I said, you cannot understand.

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            Cannot understand what? Your moronic rumble? Thanks be to God for that.

          • petroskhan1262

            LOL

            Like I said before, if that's the fantasy that helps you sleep at night, run with it.

            If you think that anyone who disagrees with you doesn't understand you, well…consider this possibility. Maybe, just MAYBE, the person who disagrees with you is RIGHT, and…sit down, this is gonna get rough…you are WRONG. I know, I know…earth-shattering concept. Just take a couple of deep breaths…relax.

            You'll get over it.

            Now try to wrap your thoughts around that one. Take your time…

          • keyboardshark

            Jeff says: "Protestants who supported Hitler

            Let us look at three of the most distinguished German Protestant theologians–Gerhard Kittel, Paul Althaus, and Emanual Hirsch."

            Truth is not determined by what theologians think or say. Many in Germany were fooled by Hitler's doublespeak. Truth is determined by the Bible.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Then why pretend you have refuted anything I have said? There is fact and opinion about the bible, I agree with that. However, you are most certainly mistaken about what is fact and what is opinion. There is nothing that supports the bible beyond some simple coincidences. Science has demolished the bible repeatedly.

          • petroskhan1262

            If that's the fantasy that helps you sleep at night, fine with me.

          • petroskhan1262

            "Simple coincidences"? Really? Here's a small sample of the "simple coincidences" that occur in the Bible. There are roughly 2,000 of them, so I will be brief.

            Some time before 500 B.C. the prophet Daniel proclaimed that Israel's long-awaited Messiah would begin his public ministry 483 years after the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem (Daniel 9:25-26). He further predicted that the Messiah would be "cut off," killed, and that this event would take place prior to a second destruction of Jerusalem. Abundant documentation shows that these prophecies were perfectly fulfilled in the life (and crucifixion) of Jesus Christ. The decree regarding the restoration of Jerusalem was issued by Persia's King Artaxerxes to the Hebrew priest Ezra in 458 B.C., 483 years later the ministry of Jesus Christ began in Galilee. (Remember that due to calendar changes, the date for the start of Christ's ministry is set by most historians at about 26 A.D. Also note that from 1 B.C. to 1 A.D. is just one year.) Jesus' crucifixion occurred only a few years later, and about four decades later, in 70 A.D. came the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus.

            In approximately 700 B.C. the prophet Micah named the tiny village of Bethlehem as the birthplace of Israel's Messiah (Micah 5:2). The fulfillment of this prophecy in the birth of Christ is one of the most widely known and widely celebrated facts in history.

            In the fifth century B.C. a prophet named Zechariah declared that the Messiah would be betrayed for the price of a slave—thirty pieces of silver, according to Jewish law-and also that this money would be used to buy a burial ground for Jerusalem's poor foreigners (Zechariah 11:12-13). Bible writers and secular historians both record thirty pieces of silver as the sum paid to Judas Iscariot for betraying Jesus, and they indicate that the money went to purchase a "potter's field," used—just as predicted—for the burial of poor aliens (Matthew 27:3-10).

            Some 400 years before crucifixion was invented, both Israel's King David and the prophet Zechariah described the Messiah's death in words that perfectly depict that mode of execution. Further, they said that the body would be pierced and that none of the bones would be broken, contrary to customary procedure in cases of crucifixion (Psalm 22 and 34:20; Zechariah 12:10). Again, historians and New Testament writers confirm the fulfillment: Jesus of Nazareth died on a Roman cross, and his extraordinarily quick death eliminated the need for the usual breaking of bones. A spear was thrust into his side to verify that he was, indeed, dead.

            The prophet Isaiah foretold that a conqueror named Cyrus would destroy seemingly impregnable Babylon and subdue Egypt along with most of the rest of the known world. This same man, said Isaiah, would decide to let the Jewish exiles in his territory go free without any payment of ransom (Isaiah 44:28; 45:1; and 45:13). Isaiah made this prophecy 150 years before Cyrus was born, 180 years before Cyrus performed any of these feats (and he did, eventually, perform them all), and 80 years before the Jews were taken into exile.

            Mighty Babylon, 196 miles square, was enclosed not only by a moat, but also by a double wall 330 feet high, each part 90 feet thick. It was said by unanimous popular opinion to be indestructible, yet two Bible prophets declared its doom. These prophets further claimed that the ruins would be avoided by travelers, that the city would never again be inhabited, and that its stones would not even be moved for use as building material (Isaiah 13:17-22 and Jeremiah 51:26, 43). Their description is, in fact, the well-documented history of the famous citadel.

            The exact location and construction sequence of Jerusalem's nine suburbs was predicted by Jeremiah about 2600 years ago. He referred to the time of this building project as "the last days," that is, the time period of Israel's second rebirth as a nation in the land of Palestine (Jeremiah 31:38-40). This rebirth became history in 1948, and the construction of the nine suburbs has gone forward precisely in the locations and in the sequence predicted.

            The prophet Moses foretold (with some additions by Jeremiah and Jesus) that the ancient Jewish nation would be conquered twice and that the people would be carried off as slaves each time, first by the Babylonians (for a period of 70 years), and then by a fourth world kingdom (which we know as Rome). The second conqueror, Moses said, would take the Jews captive to Egypt in ships, selling them or giving them away as slaves to all parts of the world. Both of these predictions were fulfilled to the letter, the first in 607 B.C. and the second in 70 A.D. God's spokesmen said, further, that the Jews would remain scattered throughout the entire world for many generations, but without becoming assimilated by the peoples or of other nations, and that the Jews would one day return to the land of Palestine to re-establish for a second time their nation (Deuteronomy 29; Isaiah 11:11-13; Jeremiah 25:11; Hosea 3:4-5 and Luke 21:23-24). This prophetic statement sweeps across 3500 years of history to its complete fulfillment—in our lifetime.

          • keyboardshark

            petroskhan1262 says: "Here's a small sample of the "simple coincidences" that occur in the Bible."

            Good stuff, petroskhan1262. I knew there were a lot of them, but have not seen a comprehensive listing of all 2000, although I would imagine that they are out there on the web. Did you derive these on your own, or do you have a source you can provide a link to?

          • petroskhan1262

            The few that I posted above were culled from a slightly longer list, here: http://www.reasons.org/articles/articles/fulfille…

            The website is a good source of information, even though I disagree with RTB's founder, Hugh Ross, on a few topics. That said, he is still quite a good source for information regarding the silliness of evolution.

            There are also lists on many other websites, as I am sure you are aware, that hold similar lists.

            There is also a pretty good document with a few prophecies detailed here: http://www.findingthechurch.com/articles/prophecy…

          • keyboardshark

            Many thanks, petroskhan1262. I'll bookmark these for future reference.

          • keyboardshark

            Also, don't forget http://www.answersingenesis.org/ and http://www.icr.org/ for information on creation science.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            As usual, notice how Jeff has disappeared when he can't handle the evidence. Seen it many times before.

          • petroskhan1262

            Pretty much the M.O. of the type. Throw out spurious accusations, outright lies, or twisted facts, then have no answer to the truth.

            Yeah, seen it many, many times.

            But I am sure of two things. 1)He will answer with some sort of refutation based on nit-picking detail (of debatable accuracy/truth) of one of the prophecies, and claim that he has totally refuted all of them. 2)He will, later on, restate his exact same position later on, in a comment on another article.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            petroskhan126264p · 40 minutes ago

            And as for "interpreting" the Bible, therein lies another mistake. The Bible is clear, concise and direct. No need to "interpret". There again is where idiots like catholics get themselves into trouble.

            Well, since there is not one clear, concise and direct version that all Christians agree on, that is obviously wrong as well.

          • petroskhan1262

            While Christians may individually prefer different versions, doctrinally speaking, all of the major translations agree with each other. Minor wording differences do not make for doctrinal disagreement.

            To claim such is simply misleading, and a lie, as you well know.

          • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

            Tell me, where are the Catholics not following the commandments of God?

          • petroskhan1262

            "The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth…by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth." – Quoted in The New York Catechism

            Pope Leo XIII said this about the role of the Pope: "We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty."

            "The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not a mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God…The Pope alone is called most holy…Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven and of earth and of hell. Moreover the superiority and the power of the Roman Pontiff by no means pertains only to heavenly things, but also earthly things, and to things under the earth, and even over the angels, whom he his greater than. So that if it were possible that the angels might err in the faith, or might think contrary to the faith,they could be judged and excommunicated by the Pope…the Pope is as it were God on earth, sole sovereign of the faithful of Christ, chief of kings, having plenitude of power." – Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica Volume V (Paris: J. P. Migne, 1858)

            In 1562 the Archbishop declared that tradition now stood above scripture. “The authority of the Church is illustrated most clearly by the scriptures, for on one hand she recommends them, declares them to be divine, and offers them to us to be read, and on the other hand, the legal precepts in the scriptures taught by the Lord have ceased by virtue of the same authority. The Sabbath, the most glorious day in the law, has been changed into the Lord's day. These and other similar matters have not ceased by virtue of Christ's teaching (for He says that He has come to fulfill the law, not to destroy it), but they have been changed by the authority of the Church.” — Gaspare de Posso Archbishop of Reggio, Council of Trent

            And as for that 4th Commandment, it was given to us by God as:
            Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work;
            but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your manservant, or your maidservant or your cattle,
            or the sojourner who is within your gates; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth,
            the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it.

            The catholic version? Remember to keep holy the LORD'S Day.

            I could continue with further recitations of the various blasphemies of the papacy, and the fulfillments of prophecies of the catholic church (And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws…(Daniel 7:25).), but I am sure you get the point.

          • keyboardshark

            petroskhan1262 says: ""I could continue with further recitations of the various blasphemies of the papacy…"

            Another interesting post, and I like the way you use the actual quotes from the RCC to show how contrary their doctrines are to those of the Bible.

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            Here is something you might find very resourceful:

            http://monergism.com

          • keyboardshark

            Looks interesting. I had not heard of this source before. Thanks, Des.

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            Welcome and blessings.

          • keyboardshark

            Also, don't forget http://www.answersingenesis.org/ and http://www.icr.org/ for information on creation science.

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            Thx

          • petroskhan1262

            I actually visit those fairly regularly, and like them both; they're great sources.

          • petroskhan1262

            As keyboardshark said, interesting.

            I will definitely look into this. I find the synergistic/monergistic differences, and the conflicting opinions fascinating.

            And I, as well, hadn't heard of this source. Thanks!

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            Welcome and blessings too. Use search window on that site to find loads good information on almost any theological topic.

          • petroskhan1262

            Glad you enjoyed it.

            I always like to go the source when making decisions regarding anything or anyone. I'm just following the Bible, actually. Specifically, Matthew 7:16, 18:

            "From their fruits you shall know them. Do they gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?…A good tree cannot produce evil fruits, nor a corrupt tree produce good fruits."

            The best way to answer a catholic (and show how off track the papacy/church is) is with quotations from their own material and history. It's shocking to me how many catholics don't even know the great blasphemies that the church has committed over the years, and perpetuates to this day.

          • keyboardshark

            "Mutants for Nuclear Power" LOL, not sure what to say about your new avatar, except maybe, Take that, you 'greenies'!

          • petroskhan1262

            LOL…yeah, there's actually three things that prompted that:

            1 – I have that pin, given to me a friend a long time ago.

            2 – "Take that, you 'greenies'!" is part of the point. (Well stated, by the way)

            3 – While science is great, and I support it wholeheartedly, we DO need to be careful with it.

            Probably more complex than it needs to be, but I wanted something that meant at least a little bit to me.

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            Indeed that is because he is a given over moron.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Well, you should know what a moron is. You show everyone that you are one every time you post.

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            I know what moron is – and that is you Dixon and you are called that name in the Word you deny … εμωρανθησαν.

          • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

            Moron is a fool like you and that is actually a Biblical description for fools like you. Look up Roman 1:22 moron.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            You are absolutely correct petroskhan. I have noticed this going on and on for many months now. Same thoughts without substance and same useless quotes. Quite amusing to watch this irrational behavior on Jeff's part.

    • M Green

      This coming from a Christophobe.

    • http://conservativebyte.com Michael G.

      Never heard of 'em.
      But I'll tell you one thing. You try that kind of stuff with me, and you're gonna find out how normal I am.

  • petroskhan1262

    So…parents fear their children, then, right? They must be, since they try to tell them what they can and cannot do. Or perhaps lawmakers fear…something, when they make it illegal to, say, drive 100 miles an hour through a school zone?

    And I fear no one, nor am I trying to tell the what they cannot do. I am telling what they SHOULD not do. They are free to choose, and act, as they wish, as long as they do not attempt to deprive me of the same freedom.

    But, since we are a nation of laws, ruled by a majority, then when the majority makes a decision, a simple respect for those laws dictates that the minority, having been on the losing side, shut the hell up, and follow the laws and regulations that the majority has already voted on. Continuing to whine and complain is nothing more than childish petulance, and it shows a lack of regard for the very system of laws they are trying to employ.

    • Deep_Thinker

      Traditionally in the US, the management of the social apparatus of compulsion and coercion, or government, is brought to power by an election in which the majority vote attains dominion. Individuals living in such a democratic republic are mollified by blindly assuming that such a form of government is "rule by the people," as indoctrinated.

    • Deep_Thinker

      In a state operating under a democratic system the populace is inevitably divided into more or less one of two factions: that which supports the newly elected administrator, typically referred to as the majority, which we may identify or label government, and that which opposes, and is thus subjugated by, this dictator, known as the minority.

      Rule of the state will evolve around the decisions made by representatives of the majority, as the minority representatives are generally outvoted in governmental processes. Thus, the minority population is obliged to live according to the will of the majority, while the state rule, believed to be that of the people, promptly transforms into a tyrannical oligarchy by the majority.

    • Deep_Thinker

      Democracy, being nothing more than an arrangement of the monopoly force concentrated within the state, is not much more a demonstration of freedom than any other governmental scheme. We, the citizenry of an involuntary democratic republic, are like a prisoner being allowed to choose his cell, but even worse due to the fact that most of us have committed no crime on which to justifiably restrain our liberties.

      The system is merely a mask for coercive rule of one group over another wherein a portion of the population gets the opportunity to choose its oppressor, the next interim aggressor seizing an illegitimate authority to "govern" individuals and "plan" the economy throughout the land.

    • Deep_Thinker

      Further, it is an illegitimate rule that no individual in this land agreed to. When and where did any one of us sign a constitutional contract to bind our person and property to the state?

      The consensus way back in American history was that the responsibilities of the state consist only of the protection of property, liberty, and peace. Government was organized to uphold a constitution of natural, inalienable laws and rights. Unfortunately, this idea has been grossly altered beyond such simple doctrine into a dastardly perverse justification for the total state, the welfare-warfare machine.

    • Deep_Thinker

      Through the use of unwarranted statutes and laws, the coercive stench of government intervention has plunged its way into the lives of individuals, stealing property, restraining liberty, and disturbing peace behind curtains of legislation and reform. Such centralized forms of democratic government have deceived the masses into believing that they are free.

      Although it exists and operates as a much adorned "lesser of evils" in comparison to other governments, it is still an involuntary institutionalized organization, and the evolution of its forceful hand, in the form of democracy, continues to restrain freedom to ownership of one’s own person and property, the intrinsic right of all individuals. It is the realization of this fact that has introduced the tide of a movement among the masses, a refusal to contribute to the system thus recognizing it as an illegitimate rule.

    • Deep_Thinker

      The underlying issue here is not one resting on capitalist versus soc***ist economies or democratic versus monarchic governments, but rather that of coercive versus voluntary interaction and involvement. To put it simply, the only just system is that of the free market, not political democracy, wherein all tastes are satisfied. This is the system implied by the principles embraced in the founding period of the United States. It is the only form of voluntary government and rule by the people: not democracy, as we understand it today, but freedom itself.
      http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=4…

      It is disgusting you would celebrate over the loss of liberty in this country, only because it supports your moral viewpoint.

      The govt should not be involved in marriage at all, at any level, state or federal. It is of the church.

      • petroskhan1262

        I am replying to just one of your comments for the sake of expedience. I want to assure you, however, that I did read all of them.

        To put it briefly, I understand what you are saying, and in large part agree with what you have cited. However…

        The many problems we have in this country with the government taking over so much of the lives of the people is not the fault of the system, it's the fault of the people. Too many have fallen asleep, and are either too ignorant, or too stupid to realize the long term effects of the "solutions" they see perceive for the problems we are facing.

        For example, Welfare. What kind of idiot really thinks that it solves anything? All it does is foster dependence on the government. Who is served by this, if not the government? And there are those who firmly believe that illegal aliens have some sort of "right" to Welfare. Why? Because they're here? Their very presence is a crime. Why would we reward that with free room and board? These concepts are dismal failures, and avoid the important, long-term question of "Who's paying for this?" Or how about the health care and retirement benefits for Congressmen? Who the hell voted for THAT? I know I didn't…but will anyone actually DO anything about it? Zzzzzzzz……..

        People don't want to have to think. They want short-term, easy answers to tough questions, given to them by someone who talks smooth and acts slick. It's the fault of the people, for letting government slowly encroach upon, and violate, their freedoms and liberties, in the name of security. Ben Franklin must have been psychic.

        So, like I said, I don't see a problem with the system itself, it's the money- and power-hungry A-holes that the sheeple have allowed into positions of power, without holding them accountable for their actions.

        Want freedom? True freedom as spelled out in the Constitution? It's there, all we have to do is take a stand, and demand that those we elect actually represent US, not themselves. We have to demand that our rights are ours, and the responsibility for defending them is ours as well.

        "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
        - Samuel Adams

        Couldn't possibly say it better myself. And another favorite, sadly not well-known, or embraced, today:

        Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty.
        - Thomas Jefferson

  • mesaman

    Your president (he certainly isn't mine) keeps back-washing his position on just about everything. I guess it's the WHINO's way of covering all the bases. Now pick the one you like the best and he will have signed in on it. Personally, I hope the tinkerbell vote does him in.

  • Ann

    The Lord created one man, one woman. He did not originally create two of either. Homosexuality is a sin, those who are willingly, arrogantly, proudly partake in that sin will one day suffer its' consequences. "For the Wages of Sin is Death". Sadly, Barack Obama will one day suffer that same wage of sin, as will the homosexual community and lifestyle he is both condoning and exploiting for selfish personal and political purposes and gain.

  • http://twitter.com/lambsev11 @lambsev11

    2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

    May we all be faithful to this word.

  • Bill Kother

    A preacher friend said this to me more than 20 yrs, ago: if GOD does not punish the USA He will have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah. These cities were a cancer in the human race; GOD in mercy cut them out – a deep scar remains to this day. yet they might have been saved had there been 10 righteous people there. Our only hope is that of GOD'S people to humble themselves and pray, and turn from their wicked way ( yes Christians ) GOD has promised to heal their land. Pray also for GOD fearing men, men of conviction and courage to rise up and stand for what is right; not sodomy, perhaps the most disgusting of sins.

  • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

    Indeed and none of that and so much more evidence makes a slightest effect apart of the drawing of God on those whom He will to draw and who suppress the truth in their unrighteousness as we did too.

    • petroskhan1262

      True dat.

      • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

        Indeed. Click on my nick…

        • petroskhan1262

          LOL Love it!

  • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

    On same sex "marriage" shenanigans:

    "Same-sex marriage makes sense if you assume that the individual is the center of the universe, that God—if he exists—is there to make us happy, and that our choices are not grounded in a nature created by God but in arbitrary self-construction. To the extent that this sort of “moralistic-therapeutic-deism” prevails in our churches, can we expect the world to think any differently? If we treat God as a product we sell to consumers for their self-improvement programs and make personal choice the trigger of salvation itself, then it may come as a big surprise (even contradiction) to the world when we tell them that truth (the way things are) trumps feelings and personal choice (what we want to make things to be)."

    More: http://bit.ly/M40hN5

  • Buck

    It has come to my attention that the current governor of North Carolina is either a sodomist herself or believes that GOD has changed his opinion on sodomy to please the human scum we are succumbing too .

  • ParadoxATF

    As a Christian, I have a hard time justifying posts like these.

    Most of the world gets and understands that you all believe the act of homosexuality to be a sin. I can see therefore why condoning gay marriage would be hard for you, but then again no one is asking you to condone it.

    So some people want to get married, to me marriage is between a man, woman and God… What you think God is going to smite this entire country if it allows two men or two women to be wed by a willing priest or pastor? If it is so wrong then won't God himself not recognize the marriage and so the fact it is recognized by the state will simply not matter?

    If you really cared about marriage then you would be protesting people getting divorces, or two straight couples having sex outside of marriage. I GURANTEE you that it is more shameful to God that people who call themselves CHRISTIAN are getting divorced at an IDENTICAL rate to those who do not call themselves Christian. Until that problem is fixed, I don't think a single Christian can stand there and claim homosexuality has any risk of ruining the sanctity of marriage. Because IF that were possible, we would have been the ones who have done it first.

    It's a simple lie that this is about saving marriage. This is about imposing worldviews on people you are uncomfortable with. Whites were uncomfortable with blacks 60 years ago, so why not segregate them, give them less public rights. What it makes you puke to see a white female kiss a black male? Or to see a black male walk into a white restroom? Well that's too bad, that's how life goes I guess. It's their right as two consenting adults to do that, and if you are going to have YOUR federal government recognize YOUR marriage and give you TAX benefits even though YOUR marriage is a RELIGIOUS sacrement and YOUR government is supposed to be SEPARATE from religion, then you best be prepared to be called a bigot by the rest of society, similar to how the bigoted and racist people we called out on it years ago during the civil rights revolution.

    Gays don't threaten marriage, nor do they threaten God. Don't act like they do and go ahead and say what this really is about. You hate gays, and you think your God hates the same people you do… which is awfully convenient.. Well I am sure the racists in the 50s and 60s thought God hated blacks as well. I guess history DOES repeat itself.

    • Eric

      "I GURANTEE you that it is more shameful to God that people who call themselves CHRISTIAN are getting divorced at an IDENTICAL rate to those who do not call themselves Christian."

      Actually it is more shameful that those who call themselves Christians really aren't.

    • Linda F.

      There are so many things that are wrong with your post. Here are a few things that I take issue with:

      "Most of the world gets and understands that you all believe the act of homosexuality to be a sin. I can see therefore why condoning gay marriage would be hard for you, but then again no one is asking you to condone it."

      Oh, really? With all due respect, ParadoxATF, have you been living with your head in the sand? I don't know what it's like where *you* live, Paradox. But where I live (in the United States), people are constantly told that we must tolerate and accept homosexuality, and that we must endorse gay marriage. Just the other day, a celebrity (I won't say who it was) posted a comment on his Facebook page saying that "we" ("we" meaning himself and every one else) need to endorse same-sex marriage. So please, don't try to feed us this, "no one is asking you to condone it," nonsense.

      "So some people want to get married, to me marriage is between a man, woman and God… What you think God is going to smite this entire country if it allows two men or two women to be wed by a willing priest or pastor? If it is so wrong then won't God himself not recognize the marriage and so the fact it is recognized by the state will simply not matter?"

      Ever hear of Sodom and Gomorrah? God destroyed those two cities because of the sins of the people who lived in them (the cities), and one of those sins was the sin of homosexuality. So do you *really* think that God won't eventually do something if the entire United States decides to embrace homosexuality and same-sex marriage? If you do, you really *have* been living with your head in the sand.

      "If you really cared about marriage then you would be protesting people getting divorces, or two straight couples having sex outside of marriage. I GURANTEE you that it is more shameful to God that people who call themselves CHRISTIAN are getting divorced at an IDENTICAL rate to those who do not call themselves Christian. Until that problem is fixed, I don't think a single Christian can stand there and claim homosexuality has any risk of ruining the sanctity of marriage. Because IF that were possible, we would have been the ones who have done it first."

      What makes you think that we *aren't* against divorce and/or pre-marital sex? I've witnessed what divorce does to families, Paradox. What makes you think that I would *ever* endorse it? I've also witnessed what pre-marital sex does to people who are engaged in it. So what makes you think that I would ever promote it?

      "Gays don't threaten marriage, nor do they threaten God. Don't act like they do and go ahead and say what this really is about. You hate gays, and you think your God hates the same people you do… which is awfully convenient.. Well I am sure the racists in the 50s and 60s thought God hated blacks as well. I guess history DOES repeat itself."

      Do us all a favor, Paradox: don't assume that you know how we think or feel. I, for one, do not hate gay people. However, I am not going say that God is okay with what they are doing because I know that would be a lie. If you don't like the fact that God does not look too kindly on homosexuality, here's an idea: take it up with Him.

      Here's a piece of advice, Paradox: pull your head out of the sand and take a look at the real world. Educate yourself so that next time, you won't look foolish. Instead, you will know what you're talking about. And while you're at it, drop the, "I'm going to compare people who oppose same-sex marriage to racists," routine. It's old, it's pathetic, it has nothing to do with the subject at hand, and it just plain doesn't work.

      • ParadoxATF

        "Oh, really? With all due respect, ParadoxATF, have you been living with your head in the sand? I don't know what it's like where *you* live, Paradox. But where I live (in the United States), people are constantly told that we must tolerate and accept homosexuality, and that we must endorse gay marriage. Just the other day, a celebrity (I won't say who it was) posted a comment on his Facebook page saying that "we" ("we" meaning himself and every one else) need to endorse same-sex marriage. So please, don't try to feed us this, "no one is asking you to condone it," nonsense. "

        You don't need to say, "Yeah its okay for you to be gay and act gay". You can say, it's wrong to do these things, but we ultimately can't stop you from doing it, just as we can't stop a priest or pastor who is willing to wed you, to actually wed you… IF you are going to say you can't have a civil union, then you'd better start trying to pass laws banning the act, otherwise you are being hypocritical. You would have your government recognize yours, for tax benefits, but you would have the government reject theirs? On what grounds? That its against the Bible? Well then why do you let the government allow the worship of other gods? Or why do you even let the government let homosexuality be a legal act?

        "Ever hear of Sodom and Gomorrah? God destroyed those two cities because of the sins of the people who lived in them (the cities), and one of those sins was the sin of homosexuality. So do you *really* think that God won't eventually do something if the entire United States decides to embrace homosexuality and same-sex marriage? If you do, you really *have* been living with your head in the sand. "

        You have no idea if homosexuality was a sin comitted by those in Sodom and Gomorrah, and you especially don't know if that was one of the reasons God destroyed it. You are creating a hierarchy of sins, you are ttrying to play God for him. He made it pretty clear what the hierarchy of commandments were in Matthew 22. Jesus spent NO time talking about homosexuality even though it was even more culturally prevalent than it was before (with all those crazy Gentiles). Why does Jesus spend all his time telling us to take care of each other and love each other, yet all you guys seemed concerned with is who gets married to who. If your so worried about it, protest heterosexuals perverting the name of marriage by acting like its just a circus act.

        "What makes you think that we *aren't* against divorce and/or pre-marital sex? I've witnessed what divorce does to families, Paradox. What makes you think that I would *ever* endorse it? I've also witnessed what pre-marital sex does to people who are engaged in it. So what makes you think that I would ever promote it? "

        I never said you promoted it. I just don't see any Christian out on the streets protesting heterosexual couples. Why not make adultery or pre-marital sex a punishable crime like it is in the Bible? YOu are PICKING AND CHOOSING which verses to follow and God doesn't like that. Who died and made you God and ruler of the law?

        "Here's a piece of advice, Paradox: pull your head out of the sand and take a look at the real world. Educate yourself so that next time, you won't look foolish. Instead, you will know what you're talking about."

        Oh believe me I know what I am talking about. YOu spend all your time and all your hatred spinning spite into fury against gays who mind want to only mind their own business, meanwhile YOUR OWN home is a wreck. Your eye has a massive plank in it, while the gays have only a splinter.

        You think God smiles on you because you stand against Gays? PLEASE.

  • http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22306708/Jn6.37.png Despeville

    What a steak of rubbish and demogogy. What's next in your propaganda? Tree hugging and ufo's?

    ' I GURANTEE you that it is more shameful to God that people who call themselves CHRISTIAN are getting divorced at an IDENTICAL rate to those who do not call themselves Christian. Until that problem is fixed, I don't think a single Christian can stand there and claim homosexuality has any risk of ruining the sanctity of marriage. Because IF that were possible, we would have been the ones who have done it first. "

    This does not follow because one sin and its tolerance which you point does not allow or justify the other sin like homosexuality is. You are deluded by this sin or those who are practicing it who influence you. Besides the Bible does allow for a divorce in ONE specific instance while it does not allow for homosexuality always calling it a sin by its negative teachings against it and positive teachings for what true marriage is and that is only between man and woman. Homosexuality is perverted "mirror image" pseudo "love". It is egoism and hedonism dressed up as "love" while in fact it is curroted lust able to bring only death and not life in physical and eternal realm.

    REPENT and BELIEVE in Jesus or you will DIE in this and other sins.

    • ParadoxATF

      "What a steak of rubbish and demogogy. What's next in your propaganda? Tree hugging and ufo's?"

      Tree hugging? Really? Thats the best you come up with?

      "This does not follow because one sin and its tolerance which you point does not allow or justify the other sin like homosexuality is. "

      What I am saying is that all of you claim the sanctity of marriage is threatened by homosexual marriage, but if that were the case it would have already been completely destroyed by heterosexual divorce, adultery and all that fun jazz. You are pointing and yelling at a falling stone when the bridge is already collapsed. It is foolish.

      "You are deluded by this sin or those who are practicing it who influence you."

      I do not practice it. People who practice it are struggling humans just like myself. I lie, steal, lust and all those things. That puts me in the same boat as them. You think you are so much better that you represent marriage as God intended it? That is arrogance. We'd be better off letting them get married or unionized and then inviting them to our houses for supper so that we can get to know them and then maybe we can help them get through their sin. Instead we treat them like lepers and demons. They are far from that. They need love and support just like the rest of us.

      "Besides the Bible does allow for a divorce in ONE specific instance while it does not allow for homosexuality always calling it a sin by its negative teachings against it and positive teachings for what true marriage is and that is only between man and woman."

      RIght, but you are going to tell me that every divorce was because of adultery? Hogwash, divorce happens in Christian couples just the same as non-Christian. They are the ones perverting marriage, Gays don't even leave a mark in comparison. If God's marriage sacrement is in any threat at all, it is by hetero infidels more so than homosexual ones.

      "Homosexuality is perverted "mirror image" pseudo "love". It is egoism and hedonism dressed up as "love" while in fact it is curroted lust able to bring only death and not life in physical and eternal realm. "

      So then is the heterosexual marriage of today. 50% of Christian marriages will end divorce, and let's not mention how many of those "successful Christian marriages" will be riddled with infidelity, lies, and more. The reason Christians are no better at marriage than non-Christians is because they are too busy commenting on other people's relationship.

      I GET that you think it is a sin, I don't disagree. But I also think lying, stealing, hating, lusting, adultery, idolatry, and others are sins as well! You don't get to play God and tell him which one is more threatening to marriage than the other. Simply fix your own marriage and try to help others get through the trials and tribulations of life. You do NO GOOD to GOD or OTHERS by spreading your hatred towards gays the way you do. God loves all, including gays. Does he condone their actions? No. But he wants to see them come back to him, and he hates to see someone like you continue to caste them further and further a way. That is not what a fisherman does.

      Try harder.

      I believe in Jesus, and I repent for my sins daily. You think I am going to Hell because I think Gays are getting too much negative attention from people like you? I only want to see brothers and sisters in Heaven, what about you? Do you want to see them in Hell, and me too for sticking up for them?

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