Vatican gets FOX media adviser

The Vatican has brought in the Fox News correspondent in Rome to help improve its communications strategy as it tries to cope with years of communications blunders and one of its most serious scandals in decades, The Associated Press learned Saturday.

Greg Burke, 52, will leave Fox to become a senior communications adviser in the Vatican's secretariat of state, the Vatican and Burke told the AP.

"I'm a bit nervous but very excited. Let's just say it's a challenge," Burke said in a phone interview.

He defined his job, which he said he had been offered twice before, as: "You're shaping the message, you're molding the message, and you're trying to make sure everyone remains on-message. And that's tough."

The Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, confirmed the move to the AP, saying Burke will help integrate communications issues within the Vatican's top administrative office, the secretariat of state, and will help handle its relations with the Holy See press office and other Vatican communications offices.

Continue reading at bigstory.ap.org

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Why can't they just tell the truth instead of manipulating the public with carefully chosen strategies?
- http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
  
  Because there is no truth in Roman religion.
  - http://www.divinenewsnetwork.com Min. Thomas Allen
    
    Amen…
  - ross
    
    That is one ignorant, despicable post. Try to say something intelligent in the future.
    - keyboardshark
      
      ross says: "That is one ignorant, despicable post. Try to say something intelligent in the future."
      
      Instead of attacking the messenger, why not respond with some facts that you believe would prove him wrong? Or, could it be that you don't have any?
  - ross
    
    The ignorant, mean posts on here are examples of why so many people hate religion . It's really not the religion they hate It's the behavior of the people like some posting here that they hate. Many of the hypocrites posting here are from differing Protestant sects. I suggest they read up on the history of Protestantism, It's just as ugly as the Catholics.
    - wesley
      
      the Anabaptist turning Munster Germany into Sodom and Gomorrah. Salem witch trials, thirty years war, England's civil war resulting in a dictatorship, protestants forcing Catholics out of their own colony of Maryland twice first with Cromwell and then under William and Mary. all that i mentioned in just the 16th and 17th centuries.
    - keyboardshark
      
      ross says: "I suggest they read up on the history of Protestantism, It's just as ugly as the Catholics."
      
      No, I suggest they read up on the Bible to see whether the Catholic religion agrees with it or not. I can flat out tell you that Roman Catholicism has many doctrines that are contrary to the Bible.
      
      "Let's take a look at what the Catholic believer has to do today in order to "receive" salvation.
      
      The Vatican teaches that salvation is through the church.
      
      According to the Catholic church you must do all of the following in order to receive salvation:
      
      Confess your sins to a Roman Catholic priest.
      "Receive" all appropriate Roman Catholic sacraments.
      Believe that Grace comes only via Rome's sacraments, and only through Mary.
      Buy or earn as many indulgences as possible so as to avoid Purgatory.
      Believe that Grace can only be distributed to you by Mary.
      Attend the Roman Catholic Mass on all Sundays and holy days.
      Obey all of Rome's rules (i.e., precepts of the Church).
      Be a member of the Roman Catholic Church.
      Submit yourself to the Pope.
      
      The bible teaches that you must believe in Jesus and obey the Gospel for salvation, and that it's by the grace of God, not Mary or Rome, that we are saved. All of the above only make you subservient to the Roman Catholic church and do not ensure your place with God at all.
      
      But, the Roman Catholic leaders today are even saying that you don’t really need to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved!
      
      Article #841 of the Catechism says: "The Church's relationship with the Muslims. 'The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day.'" This means that the Catholic church believes that the Muslims will be saved just like anyone else even though Muslims don't believe in Jesus, and that they worship the same God that we all do even though Allah was originally a pagan moon god. "
      http://www.prophecyandtruth.com/catholic.htm
      - millergroup2
        
        John 14:6
        
        New International Version (NIV)
        
        6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
      - keyboardshark
        
        Exactly.
  - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
    
    You should have merely said there is no truth in religion.
    - wesley
      
      i guess you believe there is no truth at all. which is a contradiction in itself.
    - petroskhan1262
      
      You believe in the "truth" of your religion, don't you? Why can't you allow others the same? You seem awfully threatened by something you claim to not believe in, and for which you claim to have nothing but contempt.
      
      Yet here you are, tossing out your unsubstantiated claims, day after day, being proven wrong time after time…so persistent, aren't we? SO eager to toss out your venom on those who have no interest in your point of view.
      
      A psychiatrist could have a great time studying your behavior.
      - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
        
        I do not have a religion. That is part and parcel of your delusion.
      - petroskhan1262
        
        From Merriam-Webster:
        "a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices"
        
        Do you deny having a personal set of religious attitudes?
      - Evermyrtle
        
        We have just as much right to believe in our delusions, as you do to believe in your delusions and you are a very delusioned person.
    - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
      
      Hahahahaha what a dummy you are Dodo.
      Here read if you can get past 50 pages of it and I highly doubt that you can:
      http://amzn.to/MVxwx1
  - petroskhan1262
    
    Amen, brother.
- Wayne
  
  It is not necessarily that they are not telling the truth. The problem is how to tell the truth in such a manner that it cannot be twisted by the media into a pretzel to conform to their own agenda. The media agenda BTW is ALWAYS to make the Catholic church and all other protestant churches look stupid, ignorant, devious, lying hypocrites. When Bush said WOW while observing new technologies for bar code readers, the media made it appear that he had never seen a bar code reader before! When Romney talks about how an order is streamlined at a restaurant, the media makes it look as if he is so out of touch, he has never ordered at a store before. You know the routine.
  - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
    
    The catholic and protestant churches need no help in looking stupid.
    - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
      
      I don't think they can Dodo. You beat all the records :) Hahahahahahahhaha
- Stephen
  
  The same reason why they won't admit that Hitler was acting on the behalf of the vatican.
Hurricane

The Church tells the truth, it's the media that twists everything. We must be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.
- http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
  
  Hahahahahah yes, Roman religion tells so much truth that it is pursuing a typical corporate cover up strategy and is acting as a rotten corporation that it is… Wake up gullible man. Is the rest of your intelligence completely hijacked by your erroneously, egregiously and vaingloriously misplaced loyalty?
  - Evermyrtle
    
    Is it that funny? I don't see anything to laugh at. It is sad the way people of all faiths are turning against HIM There are thousands churches of all denominations who consider themselves to be of the Chrislam faith which in itself, is an abomination to GOD. Anybody who does not believe this, should look it up and see what is happening.
    - jojo
      
      Since you seem to have appointed yourself internet expert as to who is a real christian and who isn't, why don't you enlighten us all as to which christian denominations you approve of?
      
      It never ceases to amaze me how SOME christians will attack other christians making themselves out to be BETTER than others. This is exactly why the progressives have managed to achieve as much as they have. People like you are too busy attacking and judging others….and you call yourself a christian?
      - Evermyrtle
        
        Just because you say you are a Christian does not make you a Christian any more that saying you are an automobile bakes you an automobile.
        
        Read Matt. 7: 13-20; 12:33-37; Luke 3: 8-9. Luke 6:43-45
        
        My denomination? I'm a child of the KING, at the same time I am a sinner because HIS WORD says "If you say you sin not you are a liar and the truth is not in you!"
      - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
        
        So many false automobiles are making that claim.
      - keyboardshark
        
        I thought the saying went, "Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than going to a garage makes you a car". At least that's the version I learned. In any case, the point is, it's not the external trappings or pious declarations one makes that determines whether they are a Christian, but the fruit they produce as evidence of a true, saving faith.
        
        "15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
        
        16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
        
        17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
        
        18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
        
        19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
        
        20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
        
        21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
        
        22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
        
        23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
        Matthew 7
        
        "22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
        
        23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
        
        24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
        Galatians 5
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        "I thought the saying went, "Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than going to a garage makes you a car". At least that's the version I learned. "
        
        It is but it echoed differently by Evermyrtle :)
    - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
      
      You are speaking like a Roman Catholic and perhaps you are a crypto Roman Catholic… There is no "thousands churches and denominations". It is a Roman propaganda and the very same ambiguous source they use to assert that states that there is 242 Roman Catholic denominations and that Roman religion is responsible for almost 5 million martyr deaths of Christians throughout the ages… Want to speak about that one?
      - HaveALifeDespeville
        
        What is your source Despeville? According to the World Christian Encyclopedia, there are more than 33,000 different denominations of Christianity. That's what you get with the unbiblical belief of sola scriptura. Why do you need a pope when you can be your own!
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        You need to educate yourself Sir… First of all that source is a imprecise and counts as "Christians" all kinds of heretics like Jehovah Witnesses or Unitarians or Spiritists. Second of all the very same source on the next page states that your Roman Religion is responsible for a murder of almost 5 million Christians and that there is 242 Roman Catholic denominations too. Please make sure you quote that along with this misrepresentations of 30,000 (not 33K :) ) of "Christian" denominations, after all you want to be truthful and consistent right? HHAhahahahaah nope, we both know that you will not and you will assert only one set of this data for any confusion and disinformation that serves mother Rome is all good and right. :)
        
        Some of what I mentioned documented and accounted for here: http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a106.htm
      - GetALifeDespeville
        
        The fact that these 30,000+ denominations have essentially no connection to each other, than the fact that they claim to follow the Bible alone, means that each of them follows their own unique beliefs. But, you are right, we certainly shouldn't count JW's, and Mormons as Christians. Let's revise downwards that figure. How does 29,998 sound? Almost every single Catholic faith mentioned in the article is not a separate faith, the beliefs are the same, the differences are in the form of the liturgy that is used. On the other hand, many, if not most sola-Scriptura Christians claim that the differences between the beliefs of these Protestant denominations are not 'significant' issues, and this is why they can all be considered part of the same church (funny thing is that the Bible says the Holy Spirit will lead us into ALL truth). Just how is this done without an authoritative Church? But, the only important thing is that they believe the Bible! So, for Protestants, some end up believing that God pre-destines some people to heaven, others to hell
      - GetALifeDespeville
        
        ; baptism for some is only a ritual, while others believe they receive the Holy Spirit in this act; some believe Christ is present in the bread and wine, while others do not; some believe in once saved always saved, others do not; some believe the gift of tongues is for today, others think the time is past, and many, many, many other significant differences. And every one of these beliefs can be supported by quoting out of context whatever verse from the Bible that supports someone's thinking, despite the fact that by interpreting for ones-self, you merely disregard verses that suggest something else to another Protestant.
      - GetALifeDespeville
        
        By the way, you failed to address where the Bible says we should follow the Bible alone. If YOU want to know what the early Christians believed, and how closely (haha) it resembles Protestantism, why don't you read the writings of the early Church Fathers, some of whom were taught directly by the Apostles themselves, and others within a few generations of them. Quite clearly they were sacramental and liturgical. They believed in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, they practiced Apostolic Succession, and it was this Church that selected the canon of Scripture, and preserved it. As for the five million people you say the Catholic Church murdered… Sorry, I still didn't see this information on the link you provided. Please provide something scholarly. Waiting to hear your well-researched response.
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        " why don't you read the writings of the early Church Fathers, some of whom were taught directly by the Apostles themselves,"
        
        :) It would do you well to follow your own advice :) Also to not to hide behind my nick would only show a shade of originality which I guess is alien to you. Here is from Church Fathers and clearly teaching sufficiency of the Scriptures which you deny in your religiosity:
        
        Anthony (c. 251–356) (recounted by Athanasius):
        
        One day when he had gone forth because all the monks had assembled to him and asked to hear words from him, he spoke to them in the Egyptian tongue as follows: ‘The Scriptures are enough for instruction, but it is a good thing to encourage one another in the faith, and to stir up with words.
        ~ NPNF2: Vol. IV, Life of Anthony, §16.
        
        Athanasius (297-373):
        
        The knowledge of our religion and of the truth of things is independently manifest rather than in need of human teachers, for almost day by day it asserts itself by facts, and manifests itself brighter than the sun by the doctrine of Christ.
        
        Still, as you nevertheless desire to hear about it, Macarius, come let us as we may be able set forth a few points of the faith of Christ: able though you are to find it out from the divine oracles, but yet generously desiring to hear from others as well.
        
        For although the sacred and inspired Scriptures are sufficient to declare the truth,—while there are other works of our blessed teachers compiled for this purpose, if he meet with which a man will gain some knowledge of the interpretation of the Scriptures, and be able to learn what he wishes to know,—still, as we have not at present in our hands the compositions of our teachers, we must communicate in writing to you what we learned from them,—the faith, namely, of Christ the Saviour; lest any should hold cheap the doctrine taught among us, or think faith in Christ unreasonable.
        ~NPNF2: Vol. IV, Against the Heathen, Part I, §1-3.
        
        But this all inspired Scripture also teaches more plainly and with more authority [than the light of nature in the form of the testimony of the stars themselves], so that we in our turn write boldy to you as we do, and you, if you refer to them, will be able to verify what we say. For an argument when confirmed by higher authority is irresistibly proved.
        ~ NPNF2: Vol. IV, Against the Heathen, Part III, §45, points 2-3.
        
        Lactantius (260-330):
        
        For this is especially the cause why, with the wise and the learned, and the princes of this world, the sacred Scriptures are without credit, because the prophets spoke in common and simple language, as though they spoke to the people. And therefore they are despised by those who are willing to hear or read nothing except that which is polished and eloquent; nor is anything able to remain fixed in their minds, except that which charms their ears by a more soothing sound. But those things which appear humble are considered anile, foolish, and common. So entirely do they regard nothing as true, except that which is pleasant to the ear; nothing as credible, except that which can excite pleasure: no one estimates a subject by its truth, but by its embellishment. Therefore they do not believe the sacred writings, because they are without any pretense; but they do not even believe those who explain them, because they also are either altogether ignorant, or at any rate possessed of little learning.
        ~ ANF: Vol. VII, The Divine Institutes, Book V, Chapter I.
        
        Basil of Caesarea (AD. 329-379)(To a widow):
        
        Enjoying as you do the consolation of the Holy Scriptures, you stand in need neither of my assistance nor of that of anybody else to help you to comprehend your duty. You have the all-sufficient counsel and guidance of the Holy Spirit to lead you to what is right.
        ~ Epistola CCLXXXIII, PG 32:1020; translation in NPNF2: Vol. VIII, Letters, Letter 283.
        
        TBC.
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        Continued:
        
        "By the way, you failed to address where the Bible says we should follow the Bible alone."
        
        Many places which you cannot see out of your syncretism… Just a few:
        
        2 Timothy 3:15-17
        And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
        
        Psalm 119:105
        Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
        
        Psalm 119:99
        I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.
        
        John 20:31
        But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
        
        James 1:21
        Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
        
        John 5:39
        Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
        
        Acts 17:11
        These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
        
        TBC.
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        Continued:
        
        "Sorry, I still didn't see this information on the link you provided. "
        
        That is because you do not want to see it :)
        
        "World Christian Encyclopedia: A Comparative Survey of Churches and Religions in The Modern World" 2001 edition on page 16 states that there are 242 Roman Catholic denominations and soon too be 245. You do not have that publication and you never actually read it so here is an image of that page with relevant numbers: http://bit.ly/MO0T6J
        
        "World Christian Encyclopedia: A Comparative Survey of Churches and Religions in The Modern World" 2001 edition on page 11 (right after the page 10 where bogus 30000 denominations is presented) states that Roman Catholicism is responsible for its 4,951,000 persecuted victims of Rome. Again an image of that statistic from that page visible here: http://bit.ly/Lc8gnM
        
        The facts are provided very few from the mountain of factual support for sufficiency of the Scriptures as taught by Church Fathers.
        Some quotes from the many more from the Word of God teaching that this Word is sufficient to know the truth.
        Finally two proofs from same source you and your Roman apologists are using (i.e. "World Christian Encyclopedia: A Comparative Survey of Churches and Religions in The Modern World" 2001 edition along with page numbers and images) to smear Christianity your dishonest selectivity while omitting same source's presentation of 242 Roman Catholic denominations (soon 245!) and almost FIVE MILLION VICTIMS of Roman Catholic persecution… Something to chew on huh? Think about these documented facts next time you will be repeating your lie about 33,000 "Christian" denominations which bogus assertion of is AGAIN explained here:
        
        http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a106.htm
      - ProudCatholic
        
        Hiding behind your nick. Okay, what do you want, my full name, address, telephone number, what's your point? No hiding here. I'll change my moniker though to "ProudCatholic", just for you. Sorry no originality. I'll have to conceed that point to you. As for Scripure, the Catholic Church, determined the canon of Scripture (this act itself could not have resulted from reading Scripture alone), tells me that Scripture is inerrant, and that is all that any of the Scripture verses you selected say. They do not say that they are the only rule of faith. The most glaringly deficient case you cite, is that of 2 Tim 3:15-17. Sorry, but if you go back a verse, you'll see that this doesn't say what you want it to: "14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it". So, in fact Timothy is being told that he can trust the Scriptures based upon from whom he learned it. There was no complete "Bible" at the time this was written, and for many years after this. In fact Scripture and Tradition are not in conflict with each other, they are complimentary.
      - ProudCatholic
        
        Also, the Scriptures mentioned in 2 Tim 3:15 would not be referring to the New Testament. The Scriptures that Timothy would have learned as a youth would have been the Old Testament. So, if we are to take from the context of 2 Tim 3:15, the meaning at the time it was written to Timothy, we would have to throw out the New Testament. Also please note that the Bible says we should follow the Traditions of the Apostles: 1 Cor 11:2, 2 Thess 2:15, 2 Thess 3:6, 2 Tim 2:2. And as for the Early Church Fathers you cite were not proto-protestants, they practiced the Catholic faith, and that very fact proves they were not Bible Only Christians. Here only a few of the mountainous list of writings in which the Early Church Fathers describe the importance of Apostolic Tradition…
      - ProudCatholic
        
        St. Irenaeus of Lyons: " As I have already observed, the Church, having received this preaching and this faith, although scattered throughout the whole world, yet, as if occupying but one house, carefully preserves it. She also believes these points [of doctrine] just as if she had but one soul, and one and the same heart, and she proclaims them, and teaches them, and hands them down, with perfect harmony, as if she possessed only one mouth. For, although the languages of the world are dissimilar, yet the import of the tradition is one and the same. For the Churches which have been planted in Germany do not believe or hand down anything different, nor do those in Spain, nor those in Gaul, nor those in the East, nor those in Egypt, nor those in Libya, nor those which have been established in the central regions of the
      - ProudCatholic
        
        world. But as the sun, that creature of God, is one and the same throughout the whole world, so also the preaching of the truth shines everywhere, and enlightens all men that are willing to come to a knowledge of the truth. Nor will any one of the rulers in the Churches, however highly gifted he may be in point of eloquence, teach doctrines different from these (for no one is greater than the Master); nor, on the other hand, will he who is deficient in power of expression inflict injury on the tradition. For the faith being ever one and the same, neither does one who is able at great length to discourse regarding it, make any addition to it, nor does one, who can say but little diminish it. [Against Heresies 1:10:2]
      - ProudCatholic
        
        Clement of Alexandria: "Well, they preserving the tradition of the blessed doctrine derived directly from the holy apostles, Peter, James, John, and Paul, the sons receiving it from the father (but few were like the fathers), came by God’s will to us also to deposit those ancestral and apostolic seeds. And well I know that they will exult; I do not mean delighted with this tribute, but solely on account of the preservation of the truth, according as they delivered it. For such a sketch as this, will, I think, be agreeable to a soul desirous of preserving from loss the blessed tradition" (Miscellanies 1:1 [A.D. 208]).
      - ProudCatholic
        
        Origen: "Although there are many who believe that they themselves hold to the teachings of Christ, there are yet some among them who think differently from their predecessors. The teaching of the Church has indeed been handed down through an order of succession from the apostles and remains in the churches even to the present time. That alone is to be believed as the truth which is in no way at variance with ecclesiastical and apostolic tradition" (The Fundamental Doctrines 1:2 [A.D. 225]).
      - ProudCatholic
        
        Cyprian of Carthage: "[T]he Church is one, and as she is one, cannot be both within and without. For if she is with Novatian, she was not with [Pope] Cornelius. But if she was with Cornelius, who succeeded the bishop Fabian by lawful ordination, and whom, beside the honor of the priesthood the Lord glorified also with martyrdom, Novatian is not in the Church; nor can he be reckoned as a bishop, who, succeeding to no one, and despising the evangelical and apostolic tradition, sprang from himself. For he who has not been ordained in the Church can neither have nor hold to the Church in any way" (Letters 75:3 [A.D. 253]).
        And, many others.
      - ProudCatholic
        
        As for the 5 Million people who were allegedly murdered by the Catholic Church. Let me see, you're telling me I shouldn't believe there are 30K Protestant Churches cited by the "World Christian Encyclopedia", but from that same unreliable source your asking me to believe their 5 Million victim figure, attributed to the Catholic Church? As to the Catholic Churches being split up, and counted separately. Sorry, that doesn't fly. The Catholic Church is but one Church, with the same beliefs (with the exception of two very tiny groups: "Old Catholics" (a misnomer), and the Cedavacantists)). The names of other Catholic groups are different because they refer to the LITURGICAL differences only; such as Latin Rite, Byzantine Rite. They are all loyal to the Bishop of Rome and the Magisterium. They all follow the teachings of the Catholic faith, as laid out in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Have a nice day! :)
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        "I shouldn't believe there are 30K Protestant Churches cited by the "World Christian Encyclopedia", but from that same unreliable source your asking me to believe their 5 Million victim figure, attributed to the Catholic Church?"
        
        You are evading. You know exactly what I asked you to do and that is BEING CONSISTENT which none of your Romanists want to be. All I said is since you quote BOGUS number of 30K "Protestant" denominations which really is 9000 as PROTESTANT but equally BOGUS then DO quote from the SAME SOURCE equally BOGUS number of 242 Roman Catholic denominations and overstated number of victims martyred by Roman religion of almost 5 MILLION as documented. Yet that you will not do and we know why… Because you will misrepresent, confuse, deceive and eve lie as long as you can bring another soul to "mother church" where that soul will be slaughtered.
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        "in 2 Tim 3:15 would not be referring to the New Testament. "
        
        That is your tradition inspired assertion and not the fact. 2 Tim was written around 63-65 AD years after Paul stay in Ephesus and there were already Apostolic letters written before that date and circulating between Christian Churches like for example Galatians written between 48-53 AD, 1 & 2 Corinthians around 55 AD, Romans around 57 AD, Colossians and Romans around 60 AD etc. etc. So obviously while referring to OT writings it also could and DID refered to what Church had and recognized as inspired right then and there invalidating your assertion.
        
        "Also please note that the Bible says we should follow the Traditions of the Apostles: 1 Cor 11:2, 2 Thess 2:15, 2 Thess 3:6, 2 Tim 2:2."
        
        You are committing a category, irrational and nonfactual error of anachronistic misrepresentation of the word "TRADITIONS" for the sake of your agenda. Yes, the Word of God says that but you would have to be able to prove that those traditions mentioned there are actually your Roman Catholic traditions as developed over 1500 or 1600 years. You cannot do that you just want to import your meaning to that account thinking none will notice :) Not only you cannot do that but Christians can show you from the same Word of God that what developed in your religion through hundreds of years of syncretism and absorption on non Christian beliefs is not any of what Apostles taught and knew but directly opposing that which they taught and knew. Again your assertion of those mentioned traditions in the Word with what you know now or even from a 1000 years ago cannot be equated or proven. It can only be asserted and imported back to those text which is what you erroneously do.
        
        'And as for the Early Church Fathers you cite were not proto-protestants, they practiced the Catholic faith"
        
        I never said that that they were proto Protestants that is you bogus Roman apologetic speaking. They were Christians and Catholic in a sense of UNIVERSALITY of that term and therefore they could not be ROMAN i.e. of a specific rite and Catholic i.e. UNIVERSAL as that is an oxymoron and a later development.
        
        "Here only a few of the mountainous list of writings in which the Early Church Fathers describe the importance of Apostolic Tradition…"
        
        Again you are evading and manipulating. First of ALL you did not answer to any of my quotes from the Early Church Fathers teaching what you were ignorantly denying in prior. NOT ONE… That would be only intelligent prerequisite to discuss what you asked for and I provided for you before attempting to move somewhere else which is an evasion tactic on your part.
        
        Second, in each and every quote you provided below (while tellingly ignoring my despite asking for them before) you are committing a category and anachronistic error. You assume that every time those Fathers mention "tradition' or "church" they speak about your traditions as you know it and your Roman Church as you know it. That is not only bogus but simply erroneous and you are importing that to the reading of those texts without proving that.
        
        See when I quote Anthony as "…The Scriptures are enough for instruction, but it is a good thing to encourage one another in the faith, and to stir up with words. .." (which is by the way a STRIKINGLY STRONG AFFIRMATION OF 2 Timothy 3:15-17 ) I do not make your category and anachronistic importing of your meaning back as you do with your "traditions"… Why? Because I am talking about THE SAME SCRIPTURES they had that we have today. While you want to import evolved and changing traditions that you know as of today or last few hundred years BACK almost 1800 years without providing a shred of factual and concrete proof that would allow for that. That is a deadly error and think it through that. If you a rational person you will see the logic of my argument even if you do not like it or disagree with it due to your sympathy and loyalty to your Roman Church.
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        CORRECTION of my mistyping.
        
        "Romans around 57 AD, Colossians and Romans around 60 AD etc."
        
        Should have been:
        
        "Romans around 57 AD, Colossians and Ephesians around 60 AD etc."
      - ProudCatholic
        
        "That is your tradition inspired assertion and not the fact. 2 Tim was written around 63-65 AD."
        Well, Paul died in 64 AD, so that would be the absolute latest that Paul would have written what we now refer to as 2 Timothy, to Timothy.
        "…years after Paul stay in Ephesus and there were already Apostolic letters written before that date and circulating between Christian Churches like for example Galatians written between 48-53 AD, 1 & 2 Corinthians around 55 AD, Romans around 57 AD, Colossians and Romans around 60 AD etc. etc. So obviously while referring to OT writings it also could and DID refered to what Church had and recognized as inspired right then and there invalidating your assertion."
        Yes, and there were letters and even the gospel of John, 1, 2, 3 John, the book of Revelation, and possibly the book of Hebrews which were written after 2 Timothy. And those books were not yet even part of what would later become the inspired, inerrant Scriptures, at the time that Timothy was told that it "all Scripture is God breathed, and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness."
      - ProudCatholic
        
        So, since these essential portions of the Scriptures were not yet written, and because Paul referred to Scripture as "useful", rather than "sufficient", then St. Paul could not have been telling Timothy that Scripture should be the only rule of faith.
        
        ""Also please note that the Bible says we should follow the Traditions of the Apostles: 1 Cor 11:2, 2 Thess 2:15, 2 Thess 3:6, 2 Tim 2:2."" "You are committing a category, irrational and nonfactual error of anachronistic misrepresentation of the word "TRADITIONS" for the sake of your agenda. Yes, the Word of God says that but you would have to be able to prove that those traditions mentioned there are actually your Roman Catholic traditions as developed over 1500 or 1600 years."
        No, the Traditions spoken of in Scripture are the Traditions of the Apostles. History points to the utter failure of Sola Scriptura as the sole rule of faith. Christ repeatedly says that Christians should be ONE body of believers…
      - ProudCatholic
        
        This is what it means to be Catholic. Yes, the term "catholic" certainly does mean "universal". But, the Church is not universal if it is not united in its beliefs. Yes, the term "catholic" certainly does mean "universal". But, the Church is not universal if it is not united in its beliefs. A belief in Scripture alone has lead to anything but unity of belief. Would you care to tell me how it does, and Christian beliefs are to be accurately understood, in light of Christ's promise that the Holy Spirit would lead us into ALL truth? As for "…a category, irrational and nonfactual error of anachronistic misrepresentation of the word "TRADITIONS"". In the future, can you please just speak vernacular English?
        
        You cannot do that you just want to import your meaning to that account thinking none will notice :)
        Oh yeah, how stupid of me: Catholics = BAD; Protestants = Good. The fact that I am Catholic means that I automatically intentionally lie, mislead and discredit anything or anyone that disagrees with "Rome". Your understanding of human psychology is amazing!
      - ProudCatholic
        
        "Not only you cannot do that but Christians can show you from the same Word of God that what developed in your religion through hundreds of years of syncretism and absorption on non Christian beliefs is not any of what Apostles taught and knew but directly opposing that which they taught and knew. Again your assertion of those mentioned traditions in the Word with what you know now or even from a 1000 years ago cannot be equated or proven."
        
        Oh, is that right? Then what is your understanding of what these early Christians meant by the word "Tradition"? How did we get our canon of Scripture? Did the Bible drop from heaven with an inspired table of contents? Even Martin Luther admitted the Catholic Church determined the canon of Scripture. You accuse me of evading you. I notice YOU never answered MY assertion that the early Christians believed that Christ was uniquely present, body, blood, soul and divinity in the Eucharist. This is the most sacred belief of the Catholic faith. Yes, we worship Christ, as being present under the appearances of bread and wine.
      - ProudCatholic
        
        Since this is the most basic and central belief of Catholicism, you should have plenty of evidence to show how the Catholic Church deviously developed this dangerous and pagan syncretistic practice, and we are really worshiping just bread and wine, and therefore committing idolatry. Would you like to provide evidence of how this belief in the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist, is erroneous?
        
        "'And as for the Early Church Fathers you cite were not proto-protestants, they practiced the Catholic faith"
        I never said that that they were proto Protestants that is you bogus Roman apologetic speaking. They were Christians and Catholic in a sense of UNIVERSALITY of that term and therefore they could not be ROMAN i.e. of a specific rite and Catholic i.e. UNIVERSAL as that is an oxymoron and a later development. "
        So, if these early Christians did not believe as Protestants do, what am I to believe about these early adherents?
      - ProudCatholic
        
        "Here only a few of the mountainous list of writings in which the Early Church Fathers describe the importance of Apostolic Tradition…" Again you are evading and manipulating. First of ALL you did not answer to any of my quotes from the Early Church Fathers teaching what you were ignorantly denying in prior. NOT ONE… That would be only intelligent prerequisite to discuss what you asked for and I provided for you before attempting to move somewhere else which is an evasion tactic on your part."
        
        The fact of the matter is that the people whom you quoted, practice a form of Christianity that was apostolic (ordinations occurred from the original apostles down to the clerics of the early Church, and up until the present day), sacramental (grace is received from both form: words of blessing, and matter: bread, wine, water, oil, etc), just as our Lord used prayer and matter to heal the blind man (spittle and dirt), and liturgical. The fact that they practice this form of Christianity, proves they were not sola-Scriptura Christians. So, if you deny this, then what is it that they meant when the spoke of "Tradition"?
      - ProudCatholic
        
        "Second, in each and every quote you provided below (while tellingly ignoring my despite asking for them before) you are committing a category and anachronistic error. You assume that every time those Fathers mention "tradition' or "church" they speak about your traditions as you know it and your Roman Church as you know it. That is not only bogus but simply erroneous and you are importing that to the reading of those texts without proving that. See when I quote Anthony as "…The Scriptures are enough for instruction, but it is a good thing to encourage one another in the faith, and to stir up with words. .." (which is by the way a STRIKINGLY STRONG AFFIRMATION OF 2 Timothy 3:15-17 ) I do not make your category and anachronistic importing of your meaning back as you do with your "traditions"… Why? Because I am talking about THE SAME SCRIPTURES they had that we have today."
        
        Well, not exactly. As I mentioned before, several books were written after that time.
      - ProudCatholic
        
        "While you want to import evolved and changing traditions that you know as of today or last few hundred years BACK almost 1800 years without providing a shred of factual and concrete proof that would allow for that. That is a deadly error and think it through that."
        
        The Church, as the "pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim 3:15) affirms that there will be some development of understanding in dogma, but not invention as you believe. Good examples of this are the Trinity, and the Hypostatic union. Sorry, but the Bible alone could never have given the Christians the understanding they have today about this without the Councils of Nicaea and Constantinople. By the way, these councils are biblical (Acts 15). So, why do the Protestant churches not follow this biblical practice, in favor of a non-biblical one?
      - ProudCatholic
        
        "If you a rational person you will see the logic of my argument even if you do not like it or disagree with it due to your sympathy and loyalty to your Roman Church."
        I believe you passionately believe in practicing a form of Christianity that follows an individual's own interpretation of Scripture. But, for myself, a convert to the Catholic faith, I deny that the Bible should be the sole rule of faith, and I think history and logic prove Christianity drew useful truths not only from the Bible, but also from Sacred Tradition. Without the Church and it's Tradition, we have no way to reliably interpret the Bible. This is why Protestantism is so horribly fractured.
        Let's wrap this up, shall we? I have a life outside of Zionica. I say that if you want to continue further with this, that you respond to what I've written here. Then, I'll respond to yours, and then I'll give you the satisfaction of having the last word after that. Okay? Try hard to have the humility not to pronounce yourself the victor, simply because I choose to end this correspondence. I won't be evading you, just attempting to live a well-balanced life.
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        "But, for myself, a convert to the Catholic faith,"
        
        MY CONDOLENCES. You were never a Christian in the first place and you have been massively duped and cheated into a damning production of fallen men with satan behind it all.
        
        " I deny that the Bible should be the sole rule of faith, and I think history and logic prove Christianity drew useful truths not only from the Bible, but also from Sacred Tradition."
        
        I and I and anyone else who is born from above does not care what you deny or not for that has no meaning whatsoever besides the truth that you are confused and possibly lost.
        
        " Without the Church and it's Tradition, we have no way to reliably interpret the Bible. "
        
        Really, what a bogus hogwash. So how is that Athansasius stood for DECADES against all of the world (Athanssius contra mundum) and all of the other Bishops and Emperor who all wanted him to deny Christ and become Arian as they all did? What was he standing on traditions? Church? Really? All of Church and all of traditions went HERETICAL for they were ARIAN. No He stood on the Word of God as a empowered and enlightened by God the Holy Spirit. This example shows you how wrong and duped you are and there are many more from the Church History and from the Scripture itself.
        
        "This is why Protestantism is so horribly fractured."
        
        You WERE NEVER a Protestant in the first place and you are horribly ignorant and tricked.
        
        "Let's wrap this up, shall we? I have a life outside of Zionica. "
        
        Gee, really? You must be the only one then…
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        'The Church, as the "pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim 3:15) affirms that there will be some development of understanding in dogma, but not invention as you believe."
        
        It is really sad to observe how indoctrianted and brainwashed you are. So you read that word "Church" in 1 Timothy 3:15 as assume automatically that had to be a Roman Catholic Church? Man give me a break. Did you read the opening of the letter? Here it is:
        
        "Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by command of God our Savior and of Christ Jesus our hope, To Timothy, my true child in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord."
        (1 Timothy 1:1-2 ESV)
        
        This speaks about a LOCAL CHURCH headed by Timothy and that LOCAL church is "the household of God, which is the church of the living God, a pillar and buttress of the truth" and not your religious organization that did not evolve until hundreds of years later since the writing of these words…
        
        The rest is besides the point and proves you being completely clueless about the matters you want to discuss. Like this one:
        "Sorry, but the Bible alone could never have given the Christians the understanding they have today about this without the Councils of Nicaea and Constantinople."
        
        WRONG. Irenaeus for example wrote about Trinity long before Nicaea and Constantinople and Nicaea WAS NOT ABOUT TRINITY but about the nature of Christ. Wow man you are really wasting my time here.
      - ProudCatholic
        
        I am afraid you are the one who is wrong, about several things; yet again. For example, you said 1 Tim1:1-2 speaks only of a local church. Okay, so Timothy was going to visit the church at Ephesus. Was the church at Ephesus the only church that could claim to be the pillar and foundation of truth? How ridiculous! Would not the truth that is recognized at the church at Ephesus, also be the same truth recognized at the church of Philippi, Thessalonika, or Corinth? Talk about Eisegesis!
        Yes, I am well aware that Irenaeus wrote about the Trinity. Also, several other Early Church Fathers affirmed Christ's divinity as well. As for the word "Trinity"; it does not appear in the Bible, and this concept required additional clarification and ratification to the entire early Church, through the action of these councils. But, I thank you for providing a great example (Irenaeus) of how sacred Tradition (as opposed to the so-called "self-sufficiency" of Scripture) as passed down by an Early Church Father, helped the church in its theological understanding of this great truth.
      - ProudCatholic
        
        Now, where was I wrong again about what I wrote of the councils of Nicaea and Constantinople? Nice try at editing out what I said about the hypostatic union. You should work for CBS. Your omission would certainly suggest to an inattentive reader that I was saying that Nicaea was only about the Trinity. Build a weak argument for your opponent and then knock it down. This is a classic "straw-man" technique, performed rather carelessly (not to mention unscrupulously) I'm afraid. Look again at what my COMPLETE quote was: "…good examples of this are the Trinity, AND THE HYPOSTATIC UNION. Sorry, but the Bible alone could never have given the Christians the understanding they have today about this without the Councils of Nicaea and Constantinople." At Nicaea, Christ's divine and human natures were more fully revealed to the Church. This is what the hypostatic union that I mentioned, means. Wow, maybe Sunday School is in order; oh yeah, you'd only discuss the Bible! While, at Constantinople, the Holy Spirit was also more fully defined as a person of the Holy Trinity.
      - ProudCatholic
        
        Now do I really have to provide you with a transcript of the Nicene-Constantinopolitan creed to refresh your memory of what it has to say about the nature of Christ and the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?
        After all these opportunities you've had, at my request, you continue to utterly fail to answer how Christianity can be unified in belief as our Lord insisted would be the case (the Holy Spirit will lead you into ALL truth) by following the unbiblical principle of Sola-Scriptura. The fact of the matter is that the early Church was sacramental, and liturgical, and was comprised of clerics who were selected through apostolic succession. It is only the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches which continue to carry forth these practices today. And it is that Church, which as Martin Luther rightly stated, that gave us the Bible. This is my last post here. Please do not take my lack of a response as meaning that I don't have an answer for whatever assertion you might have. The fact of the matter is that I'm not even coming back to this dialogue. Have a nice life.
        P.S. It's really more classy if you let a reader mark my comments with the thumbs up or thumbs down symbols.
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        "After all these opportunities you've had, at my request, you continue to utterly fail to answer how Christianity can be unified in belief as our Lord insisted would be the case (the Holy Spirit will lead you into ALL truth) by following the unbiblical principle of Sola-Scriptura. "
        
        Deceiver, not only I did answered to that but I ALSO provided quotes from Early Church Fathers who spoke to that which you have totatly and completely IGNORED while asking for them in prior. You are a dishonest indvidual and you will not stop from any lie to advance the interest of your Roman Church just as Muslims do who lie to according to their principle of Taqiyya … After all they are your "saved" brothers who adore and worship the same "god" as your Roman Cathechism teaches in point 841.
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        ' Please do not take my lack of a response as meaning that I don't have an answer for whatever assertion you might have. The fact of the matter is that I'm not even coming back to this dialogue. "
        
        You have no factual responses and you cannot respond to fact as quoted to you from Early Church Fathers or from the Scriptures. Your loyalty belongs not to God and His inspired Word but to your syncretic Church with its paganized pseudo "gospel" that does not save but damns and damns only. That is why for the most part and over 90% of your posts were deceitful, evading, nonfactual ad illogical avoiding the substance to my arguments. YOU HAVE NO ANSWERS but lame propaganda only. Your Roman church made you believe that traditions are not subservient to the Scritpures but EQUAL and in observed practice of your idolatreous religion actually HIGHER than the Word of God all of this lie:
        
        " As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honoured with ***equal*** sentiments of devotion and reverence."
        
        Catechism of Rome 82
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        "The fact of the matter is that the early Church was sacramental, and liturgical, and was comprised of clerics who were selected through apostolic succession."
        
        Hogwash. There is no sacrificial preisthood in NT besides ONE and ONLY in the Person of Christ. All your priests are impostors as is their "re sacrifice" or "continuation of sacrifice" or however semantically you want to frame the blasphemous Roman sacrificial mass developed hundreds of years after true Lord Supper.
        
        "And it is that Church, which as Martin Luther rightly stated, that gave us the Bible."
        
        Bogus. No church and no Apostolic Church which was not your later Roman development "church" gave us the Bible. The Church only RECOGNIZED what was INSPIRED BY GOD. Get the difference.
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        "Now, where was I wrong again about what I wrote of the councils of Nicaea and Constantinople?"
        
        In claiming that Nicea was about Trinity… The actual concern of the council was clearly and unambiguously the relationship between the Father and the Son. Is Christ a creature, or true God? The council said He was true God i.e. hypostatic union but that union did not just popped up at Nicea bit was taught 200 year before and later. By the way hypostatic union of Christ is not all encompassing for the truth of Trinity nor are these separable issues as it could be read from your imprecise assertion of: ""…good examples of this are the Trinity, AND THE HYPOSTATIC UNION."
        
        The rest is usual propaganda.
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        "Was the church at Ephesus the only church that could claim to be the pillar and foundation of truth?"
        
        Nope, every LOCAL church was and the Apostolic Church was local with FEW CENTERS like Antioch, like Jerusalem, like Alexandria etc. and not ONE and LATER i.e. Rome.
        
        "How ridiculous! "
        
        Yes your straw men and contradictions are ridiculous.
        
        "Would not the truth that is recognized at the church at Ephesus, also be the same truth recognized at the church of Philippi, Thessalonika, or Corinth? Talk about Eisegesis! "
        
        Nope, talking about the straw man on your part, and being dishonest for the sake of your agenda and denomination.
        
        "Yes, I am well aware that Irenaeus wrote about the Trinity."
        
        HAhhahahaahahaha, you were so "aware" that you denied it here asserting councils and hundreds of years later:
        
        ""Sorry, but the Bible alone could never have given the Christians the understanding they have today about this without the Councils of Nicaea and Constantinople."
        
        "I thank you for providing a great example (Irenaeus) of how sacred Tradition (as opposed to the so-called "self-sufficiency" of Scripture) as passed down by an Early Church Father, helped the church in its theological understanding of this great truth."
        
        You are completely irrational, brainwashed religious loyalist and you do not understand the Church History and the Scriptures. So Ireneous understood the Trinity from "traditions" of your then non existent Roman Church. Wrong, He understood it FROM THE SCRIPTURES gullible man:
        
        "The Word of God, the Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, who appeared to the prophets according to their way of prophesying…"
        
        Alister E McGrath, "The Christian Theology Reader" , 2nd ed, Blackwell 2001, pp 174-175.
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        "Well, not exactly. As I mentioned before, several books were written after that time."
        
        HAhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah HAhahahaahahahahaahahahahahhaha Realy? Do us a favor. Do not bother me when you have to respond with such a bogus evasions.
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        'The fact that they practice this form of Christianity, proves they were not sola-Scriptura Christians."
        
        HOGWASH. That is not dealing with what was presented and their words. That is replacing it and asserting something else. Just like below:
        
        "The fact of the matter is that the people whom you quoted, practice a form of Christianity that was apostolic (ordinations occurred from the original apostles down to the clerics of the early Church, and up until the present day)"
        
        Rubbish. DEAL WITH THE TEXT THAT DEBUNKS YOU and not what you want to paint it over with. You are dishonest and irrational and avoiding the substance presented to you despite you ignorantly asking for it only to ignore it when you cannot answer to it… :)
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        "So, if these early Christians did not believe as Protestants do, what am I to believe about these early adherents?"
        
        Early Church was Christian and not Protestant and nor Roman Catholic either. Yet out of the two later which one is Christian? Obviously not Roman Church and that is why most of you do not even claim that name for yourself but Roman Catholic. You ought to believe God as in His Word and for that you will be judged. As the Lord of Glory said:
        
        The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.
        (John 12:48 ESV)
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        "Oh, is that right? Then what is your understanding of what these early Christians meant by the word "Tradition"? How did we get our canon of Scripture?"
        
        NON SEQUITUR – DOES NOT FOLLOW. Your imported back traditions without any shred of proof have nothing to do with the Canon. It is a separate issue which you do not understand just like you were caught completely ignorant about the dates of so many New Testament letters as written PRIOR to 2 Timothy 3:15-17
        
        "I notice YOU never answered MY assertion that the early Christians believed that Christ was uniquely present, body, blood, soul and divinity in the Eucharist. "
        
        That was never part and parcel of any argument you were pretending to make and after avoiding and ignoring so many factual arguments presented to you and substantiated you have no right to whine about anything anyway.
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        "Would you care to tell me how it does, and Christian beliefs are to be accurately understood, in light of Christ's promise that the Holy Spirit would lead us into ALL truth? "
        
        Huh?
        
        "As for "…a category, irrational and nonfactual error of anachronistic misrepresentation of the word "TRADITIONS"". In the future, can you please just speak vernacular English? "
        
        There are dictionaries for that.Use them if you do not understand terms… Were you not the one who was asking of "scholarly sources" ??? :) When I delivered them you ignored them and now you do not understand scholarly terms… Make up your mind.
        
        "You cannot do that you just want to import your meaning to that account thinking none will notice :) "
        
        "Oh yeah, how stupid of me: Catholics = BAD; Protestants = Good. The fact that I am Catholic means that I automatically intentionally lie, mislead and discredit anything or anyone that disagrees with "Rome". Your understanding of human psychology is amazing!"
        
        You are dishonest, evading and manipulating to cover up the fact that you cannot prove that those mentioned "traditions" in NT are actually the traditions you assert them to be. You import back what developed in your church over 1500 years and that is why you plaster this irrational non answer :) YOU HAVE NO ANSWER TO THIS ONE! :)
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        "So, since these essential portions of the Scriptures were not yet written, and because Paul referred to Scripture as "useful", rather than "sufficient", then St. Paul could not have been telling Timothy that Scripture should be the only rule of faith. "
        
        HOGWASH as proven by the dates… Which part of this you cannot understand:
        
        Galatians written between 48-53 AD, 1 & 2 Corinthians around 55 AD, Romans around 57 AD, Colossians and Romans around 60 AD etc. etc. So obviously while referring to OT writings it also could and DID refered to what Church had and recognized as inspired right then and there invalidating your assertion.
        
        "No, the Traditions spoken of in Scripture are the Traditions of the Apostles."
        
        BASED ON WHAT?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
        PROOF and not assertion please but you will not for you cannot deliver that and you know it :)
        
        'History points to the utter failure of Sola Scriptura as the sole rule of faith."
        
        HOGWASH. History shows failure of many to hold fast to Sola Scriptura and not this Biblical Truth.
        
        "Christ repeatedly says that Christians should be ONE body of believers…"
        
        And that suppose to be a unity under your pope? That is laughable. Proofs. Nope that was spoken about unity in TRUTH of Christ teaching…
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        'And those books were not yet even part of what would later become the inspired, inerrant Scriptures, "
        
        Huh? So you think they were circulating as consulting letters only? :)
        You have been DEAD WRONG and the dates do not lie… You did here as proven: ""in 2 Tim 3:15 would not be referring to the New Testament. " "
      - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
        
        Despeville · 7 hours ago
        You need to educate yourself Sir
        
        Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha. Thank you. I needed that moment of levity.
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        Dodo you must have been an inspiration for that line in Nirvana's old song:
        "I feel stupid and contagious Here we are now; entertain us" :)
      - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
        
        Please offer more enlightenment such as how the sun can stop in the sky and cattle mating in front of a striped stick bring forth striped offspring. It is always fascinating to learn from the master of absurdities.
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        I already spoke to that in the past but you are too stupid of an imbecile to even learn from those answers as to even restate your questions as to make them harder to answer which also makes you a bore and any interaction with you a debilitating one.
      - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
        
        Yes you did. But your answers were simply more nonsense. Your belief is fiction. Your attempts to explain it are laughable.
      - Evermyrtle
        
        In this very small town we have 2 churches and within 5 miles we have 6 or more churches, and guess what, not one Catholic Church in the bunch, so go back to your drawing board!!.
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        You do not have to attend a Roman Church to be in their wake and you are…
      - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
        
        You do not have to have an education to know what nonsense Des rants about either.
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        Beat it troll… Read something to push that shoelace IQ a bit higher :)
        Like this neophyte: http://amzn.to/MVxwx1
      - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
        
        If you offer it, there is no point to read it. Your worldview is fiction.
- petroskhan1262
  
  "The Church tells the truth…"
  
  So, you agree with the church that the pope is God? That one of those "truths" you're talking about?
petroskhan1262

I thought the Devil already had the power to assume a pleasing shape? Oh, well, a little help couldn't hurt, right? I guess the whore of Babylon needs help with her zipper, or something.
- peter1589
  
  You do realize that there are 7 continents upon the earth and that is the Babylon Christ referred to, don't you?
  
  Says the Lord: "Maria, now I take you by the hand to guide you in the most obscure point of the book of John5. The commentators of this book have exhausted their capacities with many deductions to explain to themselves and to the people who the "Great Babylon" is6. With human vision—to which the shocks of events desired or which happened were not foreign — they have given the name of Babylon to many things.
  
  But how is it they have never thought that the "Great Babylon" is the whole of Earth?7
  I would be a very little and limited Creator-God if I had created only Earth as an inhabited world!8 With a throb of My Will I have raised up worlds upon worlds from nothing and cast them forth — luminous fine dust — in the immensity of the firmament.
  
  Earth, of which you are all so proud and so fierce, is but one of the bits of fine dust revolving in that infinity, and not the largest. But She is certainly the most corrupt. Lives and [more] lives teem in the millions of worlds that are the joy of your gaze on serene nights.8i
  
  Is not Earth perhaps the great Harlot9 who has fornicated with all the powers of the earth and of hell? And the inhabitants of Earth, have they not prostituted themselves: bodies and souls, to triumph also in the earth's day?10
  - petroskhan1262
    
    First off, no. Second off, no. Thirdly, you guessed it, no.
    
    I have no idea what inane ramblings you are quoting, but the words you are holding forth as some great pearl of wisdom have no basis in, and contradict a great portion of, the Bible, the only source of knowledge regarding God's will that we have, or need.
    
    And if you were to study the prophecies of the Bible with half the effort you put into reading whatever claptrap you've quoted above, you would see that the RCC fits the image of the Whore of Babylon to a "T".
    
    'Nuff said. Have a great day.
    - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
      
      He is merely doing what you do. Voice inane ramblings.
      - petroskhan1262
        
        Well, thank you for contributing to the conversation. It's always a delight.
      - http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon
        
        You may not like it, but it is an accurate description of your delusion.
      - petroskhan1262
        
        Jeffie, between the two of us, the delusional one is obviously you. Sorry to have to point that out, but it's the obvious and inescapable truth of the matter.
        
        You cling to a set of beliefs which you claim are based on science, yet they are in defiance of the laws of the science you claim is the basis for that very belief. You continually revert to the same arguments, after being proven wrong every time. You repeat the same arguments, only to have them refuted time and again.
        
        You kid yourself into thinking you are some great intellectual, freed of the chains of religion. Yet, you are nothing but a slave to the dogma of your unsupported and unsupportable disbelief, chained to the religion of your disbelief by your own stubbornness to grow and advance your thinking beyond the world you can see and touch. You claim that your belief is supported by the evidence, yet you deny the very evidence around you that shows you how wrong you are. Your belief is devoid of any redeeming quality, moral foundation, or meaning.
        
        Jeffie, you're so lost you couldn't find your front door without a Google map and directions.
great_grandma

The problem is that the ideologues in the media manipulate facts, statements, and pictures to present an image they want to sell. Witness the media frenzy over the false accusations at Duke University, the media hype starting riots over the Trayvon shooting. Dealing with the media is as tricky as a dance on a high wire. It takes someone who knows their methods to keep them at bay.
- luckylyn
  
  But,But, wasn't that the great 'left-wing nut jobs that spoon fed us that jiberish?!
  - wesley
    
    "the great left-wing nut jobs" control most of the mainstream media. unfortunately much of the conservative alternative media does not have enough support to send reports to all press conferences. they have to focus their resources to what they believe is major which means most foreign news ends up going through the mainstream media.
thedreamweaver

I don't even know who Greg Burke is, but I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised. I'm glad it 's FOX who is doing this because at least we'll get a chance at what the true news is…………….Congratulations, Greg!
- Hocus_Pocus
  
  Yes, Faux News is the "True" news…
  
  Sheeple….
  - Paul Wharton
    
    Your name is appropriate, for you are likely a Pagan and slip in here as a Troll. I'm sure you suck from the teat of the liberal media and believe every lie they puke forth.
    - Hocus_Pocus
      
      NO, I believe that the lieberal media is worse, but Faux news is hardly any better…
      
      Pagan? So if I'm not a believer in Fox news I'm somehow a pagan?
      
      Wow.. interesting christianity you espouse…
http://www.divinenewsnetwork.com Min. Thomas Allen

The bible speaks the truth for us…

The First Beast: Papacy

Rev. 16:13, "And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet." (KJV)

Rev. 17:3-6, "So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration." (KJV)

Rev. 17:13, "These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast."

The Second Beast: USA

Rev. 13:12-18, "And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." (KJV)

Both Beasts:

Rev 12:17, "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." (KJV)

The saved:

Rev. 14:12, "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." (KJV)

Rev. 22:14, "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." (KJV)

God bless you all…
- http://www.divinenewsnetwork.com Min. Thomas Allen
  
  The Apostasy Today
  
  "The pope is the supreme judge of the law of the land… He is the vicegerent (replacement) of Christ, who is not only a Priest forever, but also King of kings and Lord of lords.", La CiviliaCattolica, March 18, 1871, quoted in Leonard Woosely Bacaon, An inside view of the Vatican Council (American Tract Society ed.), p.229
  
  "Union of minds, therefore, requires, together with a perfect accord in the one faith, complete submission and obedience of will to the Church and to the Roman Pontiff, as to God Himself", Pope Leo XIII. Encyclical Letter Sapientia Christiana, Jan 10 1890
  
  "We [the pope] hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty.", Pope Leo XIII. Apostolic Exhortation Praeclara Gratulationis Publicae, June 20, 1894
  
  "This is our last lesson to you: receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God's commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church; the strong andeffective instrument of salvation is none other than the Roman Pontificate.", Pope LeoXIII. Allocution for the 25th anniversary of his election, February 20, 1903; PapalTeachings: The Church, Benedictine Monks of Solesmes, St. Paul Editions, Boston, 1962,page 653).
  
  "Sunday is our MARK of authority….. The church is above the Bible, and this transference of sabbath observance is proof of that fact." – The Catholic Record, London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.
  
  "If protestants would follow the Bible, they should worship God on the Sabbath Day, that is Saturday. In keeping Sunday they are following a law of the Catholic Church." Albert Smith, chancellor of the Archdiocese of Baltimore, replying for the cardinal in a letter of Feb. 10, 1920.
  
  "The observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, tothe authority of the [Catholic] church." Monsignor Louis Segur, Plain Talk About the Protestantismof Today (1868), p. 213
  
  "Sunday…is purely a creation of the Catholic Church." — American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883.
  
  "Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church." — Priest Brady, in an address reported in The News, Elizabeth, New Jersey, March 18, 1903.
  
  What does the bible say?
  
  Matt. 24:5, "For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many."
  
  John 14:6, "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
  
  Acts 4:12, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
  
  Acts 10:43, "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."
  
  1 Tim. 2:5, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
  - Hocus_Pocus
    
    No one knows who the Anti-Christ will be yet….
    
    He will be revealed to us ALL in due time. He will make peace and we still won't know who he is.. Then he will be revealed.
    
    Do you think you have some divine knowledge above and beyond the rest of us?
    - http://www.divinenewsnetwork.com Min. Thomas Allen
      
      Yes the bible and holy spirit teaches all truth…
      
      1 Cor 2:13, "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual." (KJV)
      
      Acts 5:32, "And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." (KJV)
      
      How do we obey?
      
      John 14:15, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." (KJV)
      
      John 15:10, "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." (KJV)
      
      1 John 2:4, "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (KJV)
      
      2 John 1:6, "And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it." (KJV)
      - daves
        
        Does preaching on the Sabbath violate the 4th commandment?
      - http://www.divinenewsnetwork.com Min. Thomas Allen
        
        No…
        
        Matt. 12:11, "And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?" (KJV)
        
        Acts 17:2, "And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures," (KJV)
      - Hocus_Pocus
        
        I'll make sure to watch out for false prophets like yourself…
        
        Truly it is a hypocrisy to state that the Bible teaches all truth, and then ignore what the Bible teaches about the Anti-Christ…
      - http://www.divinenewsnetwork.com Min. Thomas Allen
        
        I am no prophet…. But everyone has their choice to whom they will follow.
        
        As paul even says:
        
        Gal. 4:16, "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"
        
        God bless…
      - Hocus_Pocus
        
        no prophet? You claim to know the Anti-Christ before the rest of us? The AC will be worldwide, and be revealed to all at the same time..
        
        How are you not a false prophet?
      - Evermyrtle
        
        I think Min…. you are a little like me, a sinner who loves CHRIST AND HIS WORD AND DO YOUR BEST TO LIVE ACCORDING TO THE ENTIRE SCRIPTURES THAT GOD GAVE US AND NOT BY A SELECT FEW..
        
        Another thing we cannot not expect to get much out of it by just reading it and putting it down and forgetting about it. To understand it, we must study it, regularly and listening to others speak on it, who have studied it for a long time. After all of this we can see as through a glass darkly, even though some of the scriptures are very plain in what they say.
      - Eileen
        
        Jesus keep the whole law not just the outward appearance of the law, but also the part that says we must love God with our whole heart, soul, mind and strenght. When we trust in Jesus we are also keeping the whole law. Jesus is our sabbath.
    - wesley
      
      we can tell exactly who antichrist is. antichrist is anyone who denies that Christ came in the flesh. to be more accurate anyone who denies what the creeds say about Christ. the Jehovah's witnesses, mormons, muslims are a few examples. it is so said that dispenationalists have so twisted scripture that they have create a person who would and can never exists.
      - Hocus_Pocus
        
        No, that is the spirit of the antichrist. The antichrist will make peace first, then be revealed.
      - wesley
        
        where?
      - Hocus_Pocus
        
        what?
      - wesley
        
        where is the antichrist makes a peace treaty found in the Bible?
      - Hocus_Pocus
        
        Rev. 13; II
        Thess. 2:3-4
      - wesley
        
        so this peace treaty is pure fiction just like the antichrist rising from the dead after three days.
      - Hocus_Pocus
        
        Daniel 9:27
        Ezekiel 38-39
        
        I can give you more if you still have your doubts…
      - wesley
        
        Daniel 9 deals with Israel's redemption and the person who CONFIRMS the covenant with many is Jesus Christ himself for he preached the gospel for 3.5 years and his sacrificial death ended the need for all sacrifices. the disciple preached the gospel another 3.5 years to the lost sheep of Israel. Stephan's martyr sparks the persecution and the gospel started going to the rest of the world. Stephan only preached that sermon after the Jews wanted to kill him in the first place for his faithful witness.
      - Evermyrtle
        
        There are many little anti CHRISTS but there is one who will be that controls all the little ones. and he is the one that is spoken of in the BIBLE, as the Anti-CHRIST. Look at some of the leaders of this country, could one of them, be the one spoken of in the WORD???
  - Evermyrtle
    
    Min Thomas…..Excellent post, this should ruffle some feathers. When you study the history of the Popes you can see how well they stand up beside regular Christians. No shining stars there
- prodigal48
  
  No, You are incorrect.
- wesley
  
  the beast of the land sometimes referred to as the false prophet was the Jewish high priest of those days. the beast of the sea was caesar most likely Nero who declared himself god and demanded worship. for Nero to Diocletian there were ten waves of persecution of the saints. Nero set Rome on fire and then blamed to Christians for the fire in 64 AD which corresponds to the timing of Peter writing his first letter to the Jewish Christians from Rome. the harlot that rode the beast was the Jewish temple for she had once followed God but just as what happened before the destruction of the first temple her worshippers turned to other god this time it was to the Roman Emperor. Caiaphas told Pilate that the Jews had "no king but Caesar". Jesus returned in judgment to judge the Jerusalem and the Jewish temple within a generation just as he declared he would in the Olivet Discourse(30 AD) in 70 AD.
  - Evermyrtle
    
    I don't know that because we have someone like him in America, today, one who is playing GO. Apparently only GOD can bring him down
- peter1589
  
  Indeed the Bible speaks the truth. Problem is, with over 38,000 DIFFERENT protest-ant sects, not one of you has the humility to submit to the Church which Paul spoke of in First Timothy:
  
  3:15. But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
  
  The pillar and ground of the truth…. Therefore the church of the living God can never uphold error, nor bring in corruptions, superstition, or idolatry.
  
  That's the Catholic Church. The world is Babylon, and the Catholic Church is indestructible. Imagine that! A mere 416 citizens (as of data dated 1991) who are running a billion strong world-wide organization for over 2,000 years. And you PROTEST-ants can't see the miracle of that, but are running around theologically challenged and confused, refusing in your pride to submit to the Church. Poor PROTEST-ants! Never get the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ in the Eucharist and then wonder why He will say to you, "7:22. Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? 7:23. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity."
- nancy
  
  Mr. Allen, __Please take a deep breath. The book of Revelation is like Shakespeare — it contains many many layers of meaning. Trying to use the Bible to attack any historical and biblical church cannot bear good fruit.__Most of us need to stick with Jesus' instructions to "knock, seek, and ask" — for when we do receive the Holy Spirit which the Father desires to give to us, the next thing that will happen to us, if we stay on the path of humility and constant prayer, is the inner fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, self-control. God does not give us a spirit of fear. "Judge not, that ye be not judged." I suggest you go back to square one, as it were, and knock.
Marilyn Smith

I believe I will cling steadfast to what I know. God is sovereign and holy. We cannot get to Him except through Jesus, His only Son who died on the cross to pay for all our sins–past, present and future. All we need to do is accept this, believe it in our hearts, recognize we have missed God's requirement of holiness and ask forgiveness and put our trust in Jesus who took our place. Then we go out to tell others so that they may be rescued also from the Evil one. It's simple. It's easy. A child can understand it. We don't need anything else. Overcomers: Let's do our job and forgetting everything else, press on to the high calling of God. Run the good Race!
- http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
  
  It can be said as such but there is more that later has to be qualified and affirmed for what you wrote above can be signed under by a Mormon or Jehovah Witness too unless it is qualified from the Word of God.
  - Eileen
    
    They added to the word of God. The mormons puts more faith in their fictitous book of mormon then in the bible. So they are clearly not trusting in the gospel delivered to us by the apostles. Paul said" if anyone preached any other gospel then what I pearch let him be accursed".
    - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
      
      Indeed and Roman religion does exactly the same except they have an evolving traditions instead of few more books.
      - Harvey
        
        The Church of Rome DOES HAVE additional books in their Bible.
      - wesley
        
        the Catholic Bible has the books that protestants removed well after the Reformation. the Geneva Bible included them and so did the King James 1611 edition as well. the Catholics did not add anything for their extra books were included in the Greek Septuagint. they do add some historical background of Judaism at the time of Christ.
      - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
        
        What a bunch of anachronistic hogwash. You never heard about Jewish canon and Council of Jamnia.
- Evermyrtle
  
  Marilyn, excellent post, so much truth is only a few words. Thank You!!
Bob

Even if the utter decatholization of the true Faith has not been enough to convince so-called conservative Catholics that Rome has been infiltrated and even taken over by satanists and Freemasons, the fact that it has turned to faux news to pretty up its image should put the final nail in that coffin! LOL!
- Eileen
  
  At least they didn't turn to MSNBC, which gives me a lot hope for them.
- peter1589
  
  Taken over? Really? Then why didn't all the forces of Hell over the past 2,000 years succeed? The Vatican is still there, still running a billion strong Church, the only Church instituted by Christ and the Holy Ghost at Pentecost and still teaching what the Apostles taught. And you will have none of if.
  
  Unless you eat My Body and drink My Blood, there is no life in you. Thus says our Blessed Lord. And you won't submit. Enjoy Hell.
  - wesley
    
    there is just one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
    - http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
      
      Yes, there is but with Roman or any other rite in front of "Catholic" it is not Catholic i.e. universal anymore…
  - petroskhan1262
    
    "The only church instituted by Christ…and still what the Apostles taught."
    
    REALLY? Did the Apostles teach that a mere man was equal to God? Did the Apostles teach that God's laws could be altered by any earthly authority? I'm going to need chapter and verse on that if you claim "yes" to either of those.
    
    You are seriously delusional, my friend. The RCC is a pagan organization at best, or perhaps a cult. I suggest, and strongly at that, you open your Bible and actually read it, without "help" from the RCC.
- Dennis
  
  Dont understand all the negative remarks and thumbs down to this.Bob is right on the money about this.
Eileen

I resent the anti-catholic remarks on here. The catholic church is far from perfect but they stick by their guns when it comes to protecting the unborn and condemning homosexuality. If there is a devil that spins the news it's Obama and his anti constitutional mandates like the healthcare bill that will force the catholic church to choose between their faith in God or being obedient to the democrat dictators.
- prodigal48
  
  I'm not catholic but I agree with you. I have read and experienced enough to know that there are many true and committed Christians within the Catholic Church, and there are many hypocrites and lukewarm "christians" within evangelical churches. Some of these anti-catholic remarks are really nauseating. Some of these people need to get the plank out of their own eye.
Ron

Math 5:17&18 not one jot or one tittle shall pass from the law till all things be fulfilled. Luke 16:17 It is easier for heaven and earth to pass than for one tittle of the law to fail. The Anti Christ has been around since christs day, the apostle Paul said it was already there in his day."The Babylonian Mystery Religion" is Constantines Christianity when he forced the Universal Church to change the day Christ gave from the beginning "Saturday the 7th day" to Sunday the 1st day of the week. From what I have studied the truth of this is going to be revealed so that people will have no excuse and will have to make a choice some to everlasting life some to destruction. Look up Sat or Sun in any encylopidia, or the fist Sunday law, people are just fooling themselves with this who knows what the right day is.an astronomer can tell which day it is just from the location of the stars. Ron
- http://www.divinenewsnetwork.com Min. Thomas Allen
  
  Amen brother….
  
  But remember the words of peter…
  
  2 Peter 2:2, "And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of." (KJV)
  
  As for you…
  
  2 Tim. 4:3, "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry." (KJV)
  
  Titus 2:1, "But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:" (KJV)
  - dwoodphd
    
    Does Titus 2:1 give us permission to phrophesize? I am confused. I was told we cannot add to the bible.
- dwoodphd
  
  We have Math in the bible?
Mexseiko

I prophesy Greg's resignation on his first head spin after he's faced with that web the Vatican wieved.
Luong

The Great Whore of Revelation 17 is pouring more of her gold out to deceive the world exactly like the Book of Revelation said she would.
Buddy

The one Church which was established by Jesus Christ himself and guaranteed by Him to be free from error for ever can always be sure of being attacked by the enemies of Almighty God until the end of time.
- Dennis
  
  Are you seriously talking about the Catholic church? Really? Sir you are so far off the mark that it borders on the insane.
Chris P

How do you effectively communicate that you have raped young women and boys and kidnapped their babies?

How do effectively communicate that you covered it all up and forgot to tell the legal authorities?

Fox News lies. That's the strategy. You just lie.
dwoodphd

Where does it say in the Bible to call the Church of Jesus Christ "the Holy See"?