Congressmen voice concerns about Air Force attacks on religion

Sixty-six members of Congress have penned a letter to Defense Secretary Leon Panetta asking him to address what they say is an “alarming pattern of attacks on faith in the Air Force.” According to the Air Force Times, the congressmen blame Air Force Chief of Staff Norman Schwartz (a member of the internationalist Council on Foreign Relations) for cultivating the attack on religious expression, which they say includes removing Latin references to God in an Air Force unit logo, deleting Christian references from a missile training course, taking Bibles off an Air Force accommodations checklist, and prohibiting commanders from informing Air Force service members about Chaplain Corps programs.

“When our sons and daughters join the military, they are not signing away their First Amendment right to religious liberty,” the congressmen said in their epistle to Panetta. “Unfortunately it seems that some parts of the military are intent on prohibiting religious expressions rather than protecting it.”

The congressional protest is being led by Representative Randy Forbes (R-Va.), who said in a statement: “The Air Force has repeatedly capitulated to demands from groups that seek to remove all traces of faith from the military and the public square…. Those who sacrifice so much for our nation must be assured that they need not leave their faith at home when they volunteer to serve.”

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Evermyrtle

Too little, too late, but at least an effort!!
- daves
  
  It is ridiculous to say that removing Latin references to God in an Air Force unit logo – or any of these other things – are an attack on religion. No one is taking away anyone's religious freedom and I would much prefer to get the bible I choose to believe in compared to the military issued bible.
  
  What Christian could possibly deploy a nuclear missile? It goes against everything that Jesus teaches.
  - Eileen
    
    People like you is whats wrong with this country.
    - daves
      
      Maybe I am wrong for the country but I have Jesus on my side.
      - a concerned woman
        
        Jesus would have you stand for everyone's rights to life, rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness … read the U. S. Constitution sir and read 1776 by McCullough to get a clue about the tyranny that befalls this country when we appease those who would have us dead, those who would kill our spirit if they could. Be Christian and stand for something! Honor the dead who fought for your right to have and speak an opinion, for God's sakes! Jesus Christ did.
      - Hocus_Pocus
        
        The US constitution has nothing to do with other nations rights.. Potential harm is not harm.. Learn a little logic before you argue on here.
        
        Funny that you talk about liberty when you would force your beliefs on others via the law, which directly takes away their liberty. Think gay marriage, drugs, etc.. Christianity is of the indidual, and so is liberty, yet you would make an individual slave to your beliefs and at the same time take away their liberty.
        
        Our founders knew the tyranny that could come about by subjective decision making such as acting on subjective statements like "those who would have us dead.". That is why war was only supposed to be used when we were attacked. That is also why our founders spoke out against standing armies.
      - Hocus_Pocus
        
        Amen. Too many people believe this countries policies are in line with Jesus' teachings. Nothing could be further from the truth. The theocons have brainwashed the illogic and those who blindly follow everything they told.
    - Hocus_Pocus
      
      Yes, people that actually enjoy not killing people is what is wrong with this empire, er I mean country..
  - keyboardshark
    
    daves says: "It is ridiculous to say that removing Latin references to God in an Air Force unit logo – or any of these other things – are an attack on religion."
    
    That's because you have bought the lie that any mention of God or the Bible in the government is prohibited. Those references have been there for decades, and no one was being hurt in any way, shape, or form by them being there. It was simply an acknowledgement that our nation was founded on Christian principles by Bible-believing founding fathers, and that God is in control of the affairs of men (which He is).
    
    In other words, these actions are a backhand slap in the face of our nation's historical acknowledgement of the God of the Bible. You may not perceive it to be an attack on religion, but after years and years of these small steps to remove all mention of God, one day you will wake up and all our freedoms of religious expression will have disappeared, right under your nose.
    
    If you call yourself a Christian, you should be alarmed at these types of backdoor attacks. No one is forcing you to buy a military-issued Bible, as you seem to imply, but by taking that choice away, you are saying it is OK for the government to limit the freedom of others to choose such a Bible. Whether you agree with the use of military force or not (the Bible does not prohibit military action for defense), you have no right to remove the free choice of others who would like to affirm the military by owning a military-issue Bible.
    - Hocus_Pocus
      
      Does God exist because he is referenced on a logo? Or does he exist because his spirit is within us?
      
      Do you own the air force? No. So if the air force wants to take God out of its logo, it very well can. You own your own body, where you can choose to put God all over it if you want, and choose to believe in God. But you can't force the Air Force to believe in God. Nor will it hurt you if the logo is changed. It will only hurt your cause, which will survive because it is not dependant on a logo.
      
      You might be tempted to say you do own the air force because you pay the tax dollars. But do the majority of taxpayers want it changed? Furthermore, you have elected "representatives" who make these decisions.
      
      Daves was saying he would rather buy a Bible he believes in then a military one, which means he wants that choice. You seem to think he meant otherwise.
      - wesley
        
        as a citizen of the United States of America we sure do for the government is the servant of the population not the rulers of the population. that is why our elected officials are called public servants.
      - keyboardshark
        
        You are missing the point entirely, Hocus_Pocus. I'm not concerned that God will be harmed by not having His logo on anything. But what I am concerned by is the repudiation of our nation's historical acknowledgement of the God of the Bible. While the logo is only symbolic, it is a symptom of a far greater problem, namely, the repudiation of God by the present administration.
        
        Do I own the Air Force? Yes, as a taxpayer whose taxes go to fund the military, I do. And I don't see where any input from the taxpayers was applied to this decision to eradicate God from the military. So we do not know if the taxpayers approved of this decision or not. It is the responsibility of our elected Representatives to know and vote the will of the people in their district.
        
        Daves said he would rather buy a Bible he believes in then a military one, but what does a logo have to do with the contents? If a Bible with the logo is a KJV and one without the logo is also a KJV, there is no difference in the contents, so his argument is irrelevant and nothing more than a red herring.
    - daves
      
      When I went to Marine Corps boot camp in 1980 they told us pick a religion because you are going to church on Sunday. We obeyed everything they told us to do there.
      - keyboardshark
        
        And your point is…..?
      - mesamanp47
        
        Seems obvious to most of us. I would guess he is suggesting that the Marine Corps shows more respect for religion than the US Airforce.
      - keyboardshark
        
        Or he could be suggesting that the Marines forced religion on the troops. There are several ways you could interpret what he posted, which was why I requested clarification.
      - daves
        
        I was making the point that the U.S. government was forcing some sort of religion on us. In direct violation of the United States Constitution.
      - mesaman
        
        Point well taken. Regardless of interpretation, there seems to be a plethora of anti-religious commenters who love to hide behind the church/state perplexity yet presume that it is acceptable for them to shove paganistic, agnostic, atheist ideas and ideal onto us. I must admit, though, I don't think the Marine Corps is in the business of recruiting or activating religiosity in their troops.
http://www.OnlyWay.com David McElroy

At least the Air Force is not sending drones to attack Christianity…. yet! God help us to stand against the darkness!
- Mike
  
  Are you implying that they are sending drones to attack another religion?
  - Randy131
    
    If you are of the Christian or Judao faiths, in the future those drones, that they are now allowing to spy on Americans, will be used against you through their armament. See what you now have to look forward to because of the type of policies that are being instituted by this General Schartz, not only in the Air Force, but all our military branches.
    - Hocus_Pocus
      
      Amen.
- MSGT JOHN CORREA
  
  Who gave Chief of Staff Norman Schwartz the right to rescind individual religious rights and logos long practiced in every branch of the military? Is Norman Schwartz an atheist? If he is… get rid of him! I have attended church services with many friends of different religions and always respected their beliefs as they respected my own. I have never seen nor experienced any form of denial of religious expression while serving in two branches of the military in all of my 28 year of service. As far as I'm concerned, Chief of Staff Norman Schwartz has dishonored the United States Air Force and its loyal members.
  
  MSGT JOHN CORREA
  USAF (RET)
  
  MSGT JOHN CORREA
  USAF (RET)
  - keyboardshark
    
    I agree with you, MSGT John, and your personal experience of having served honorably in the USAF lends credibility to your post. I commend you for your service to the USA. I have not been in the military myself, but my (late) father served in the army in the Philippines in WW II, so I have a special place in my heart for those who have served.
  - Hocus_Pocus
    
    "individual religious rights" – no one is taking away individual rights. You can believe in God if you like. They are determining what logo the AIR FORCE should have. This has nothing to do with the individual, unless the air force is an individual. Which it's not.
http://www.divinenewsnetwork.com Min. Thomas Allen

Typical government intruding on the lives of the people telling them what they can and can not do. I'm surprised they are still allowing elections. Its only a matter of time.

Rom. 13:11, "And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed." (KJV)
- MexSeiko
  
  The US is heading for a rude awakening as she leaves her first love of Jesus. Romans 1 lays it out clearly and the Arm Forces exemplify that not acknowledging the Creator and catering to immorality. The wrath of God will be revealed.
  - http://www.divinenewsnetwork.com Min. Thomas Allen
    
    Any country which tramples upon God always falls as we read in Daniel 5…
rick

Politically correct has no place in our government or religion.
- Hocus_Pocus
  
  Our government has no place in religion.
nelson smallenbarger

leader stop taking our freedom away from us. we need our freedom the way it was 90 years ago . religion freedom is our rights .that what we in world war 2 fighted for freedom thank you
- daves
  
  No one has taken any freedom from you.
  - Evermyrtle
    
    Instead of growing in wisdom, your wisdom seems to be shrinking. Where have you been during the last 3 1/2 years. I admit that liberals freedom is growing laws are favor. they are getting your ant-GOD laws passed so often, we have few Christian laws left. Christians are losing ground everyday. This is what the WORD OF GOD tells us will happen in the last days. That time has arrived.
    - Hocus_Pocus
      
      There are no ant-God laws passed, just God neutral laws. Have they made it illegal for you to believe in your God?
      - Evermyrtle
        
        I'll name just one of the many: Homosexuality has been legalized. This act is an abomination to GOD, the fact that it was legalized, is also, an abomination to GOD!!.
  - Rick
    
    Daves: You my friend are a brainwashed Idiot. Just for openers, Leon Penetta has just ordered all branches of the Military to pull all Bibles with Military Insignias out of the PX's and that they are not allowed to be sold to our Men & women serving our country. Odumbass has now ordered the INS and ICE to refuse to pick up Illegal Aliens in Arizona. They are also trying to institute new Gun laws. Even H. Clinton wants to sign a U.N. Treaty to ban all private gun ownership world-wide. The Muslem-In-Chief wants to destroy the U.S.A. as we know it and make it a Muslem country. Wake up and smell the coffee you Dunce.
    - daves
      
      The U.N. small arms treaty bans international sales of weapons, not ownership. It will never be ratified in the U.S. anyway.
      
      Why is it important that our military have government logo's on their bible? They haven't lost a freedom here, they can add their own logo if they want to.
      
      Focusing limited immigration resources on the worst offenders is smart.
      
      So, can you name a freedom that you have lost?
  - Fed up
    
    Daves, I do not know where you come from but if you think for one minute that our religious freedoms are not being taken away right and left you must be in another country and not the USA. Christians are being told day after day they can not pray or use the name of Jesus Christ and if that is not taking freedom away I don't know what YOU call it. I for one would like to see them try to take away the right of the Muslims to answer that sickly call to fall on their face 5 times a day where ever they are and pray to their false god. Even schools are making places where they can do that. But you will not hear that they tell them that they can't because we can not offend them. No one cares if they offend Christians. I think it is time for Christians to start standing up for Christ and letting them know we are not taking it anymore.
    - daves
      
      What Christian has been told they cannot pray? It has not happened.
      - keyboardshark
        
        daves says: "What Christian has been told they cannot pray? It has not happened."
        
        Where have you been, daves? Christians all around the nation have been prohibited from praying in Jesus name:
        
        "FREDERICKSBURG, Va., May 23 /Christian Newswire/ — The Fredericksburg City Council has told the Rev. Hashmeal Turner that he is not allowed to pray in the “Name of Jesus,” at City Council meetings." http://www.forgottenword.org/no-jesus.html
        
        "Police Chaplains Told to Stop Invoking Jesus
        For the past seven years Pastor Terry Sartain has ministered to police officers and their families in Charlotte, N.C. Whenever the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Dept. invited him to deliver an invocation, he prayed in “the name of Jesus.”
        
        But not anymore.
        
        Volunteer chaplains in the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Dept. will no longer be allowed to invoke the name of Jesus in prayers at public events held on government property." http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/…
        
        "The Secretary of the Navy recently released an updated instruction on religious ministry in the Navy. It specifically states that "other than Divine/Religious services, religious elements (that is, prayers, including invocations and benedictions) for a command function, absent extraordinary circumstances, should be non-sectarian in nature. Neither the participation of a chaplain, nor the inclusion of a religious element…renders a command function a Divine Service or public worship."
        
        In other words, the official guidance coming from the Secretary of the Navy is that chaplains, when praying in a public ceremony such as a change of command or retirement, should offer only a non-sectarian prayer. This can only mean that chaplains should not pray in the name of Jesus." http://chaplainreform.com/Prayer.htm
      - daves
        
        Those are instances of government promoted prayer. Every one of those people still retain the right to pray.
        
        Matthew Chapter 6:
        "5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you."
      - keyboardshark
        
        Ah yes, daves favorite verses whenever the issue of public prayer is brought up, but he ignores the public prayer mentioned in the Bible such as Solomon's prayer in 2 Chronicles 6. The admonition to not pray in public was directed to those, such as the Pharisees, who made a show of it to gain the adulation of men.
        
        But not allowing someone to pray in Jesus name wherever they happen to be, even on government property, is very definitely taking away the rights of Christians to pray. I don't understand why you cannot see that.
      - wesley
        
        public school coaches can not even bow their heads while their team prays if the players are allowed at all. wake up to the coffee our religious freedoms and even the atheist will eventually lose theirs to not believe in God with this president submitting to muslims.
    - Hocus_Pocus
      
      Have you ever been refused the right to believe in God, or the right to worship him? No.
      
      It all deals with property rights. Who owns the property that said right is being taken away from? If a PUBLIC school wants to ban something, it is their right. Don't send your kid to the school then.
      
      Religious freedom will be gone when you can't pray on YOUR property.
  - http://Att.net Alfred Mcdaniel
    
    To HELL you say!!!!
CHRISTOPHER

With Islamic Principles dominating the White House what else could we expect!!!!!
http://cowboybyte.com/9276/white-house-congratulates-muslim-brotherhood-for-winning-egypts-presidential-election-calls-it-a-milestone/
JPM

I spent 22 years in the A F and now am an evangelist. This General should be removed from his position of authority immediately.. I believe that he is violating the constitution with his stance. Remember he is in the military and therefore part of the government. As far as I am concerned this guy is nothing more than a politician in uniform. Not even Obama dares do what this guy is doing. Not only is he obviously against the christians, but is trying to direct what people under his command can or cannot read or hear. This is pure censorship. If it were up to me he would be stripped of his rank and all retirement privileges including retirement and treated the same as any other terrorist. This man has way overstepped his authority and in doing so has instituted a criminal action.
- robo77155
  
  I believe the Muslim Obama is more than likely Dictating It.!!
- mesamanp47
  
  JPM seems to know what he's talking about. It would be erroneous to label the "US Airforce" as the culprit in this snafu. The blame and direction of your hatred or disdain really belongs to General Schwartz (isn't that deutsch for black, dismal, gloomy?).
Wendell Fountain

This is sickening! BHO and his minions have intruded into every part of our lives. This general should be sacked, but he won't be, because he is doing exactly what BHO, Muslim plant, wants him to do!
- daves
  
  General Schwartz is a command pilot with more than 4,400 flying hours in a variety of aircraft. He participated as a crewmember in the 1975 airlift evacuation of Saigon, and in 1991 served as Chief of Staff of the Joint Special Operations Task Force for Northern Iraq in operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm. In 1997, he led the Joint Task Force that prepared for the noncombatant evacuation of U.S. citizens in Cambodia.
  - Fed Up
    
    Daves, It does not matter what kind of Military background he has what he is doing now is why he should be retired. He is acting like a dictator. I feel sure he is doing just what BHO wants but is letting someone else do his dirty work. BHO would let them put a Koran anyplace they wanted because you can't offend the Muslims. Wake up Daves and look around you. Do you want to be told that you have to say prayers 5 times a day to a false god? That is coming sooner then you think. Americans will have to do it or be killed unless we vote BHO and all his cronies out of office. If he is elected for another term we will see all our freedoms disapear fast. He will be a dictator for life if he wins or takes office again. I feel like he has a plan that no matter who wins the election he will take it anyway and that will be the last election this country ever has. I am scared to death of him, he is pure evil and anyone that will vote for him has their head screwed on wrong.
  - MSGT JOHN CORREA
    
    Wonderful! General Norman Schwartz should be commended for his achievements. But he has no right nor the authority to violate the 1st Amendment of the United States Constitution that he swore to preserve, protect, and defend against all enemies foreign and domestic, in any way shape or form. And so, the issue was never about his achivements; it is about his violation of the 1st Amendment… got that!
    
    MSGT JOHN CORREA
    USAF (RET)
    
    Nec Aspera Terrent
    27th Infantry Regiment
    (The Wolfhounds)
    APO 25
JPM

Horay for Randy Forbes and the 65 others like him. What's wrong with the others that they didn't also sign the letter to Panetta? As for him siding with other groups who want to remove religion from the military, they did not promote him to the rank he now occupies congress did. He also took an oath to uphold the constitution and this does not mean he can pick and choose which parts of it he wants to obey.
JPM

Sorry it should read hooray not horay
Chris

This article is completely wrong. The problem is exactly round the other way. The Air Force is being run as a Christian recruitment organization. The Air Force Academy allows right wing Christian organizations to come in and recruit. They bully "not true Christians" and harass them.

This is supposed to be a secular force not God's dominionist army.
- MSGT JOHN CORREA
  
  Did you know that this nation was founded upon Judeo-Christian principles and not Muhammad's Muslim Islamic Sharia laws? Did you know that Muslims demanded Australia live under Islamic Sharia law? Prime Minister Kevin Rudd of Australia told them to get out. Have you read the history of Muhammad and Islam? Read it, and then read their Qur'an. How in heaven's name could anyone follow Muhammad, its lone "prophet," who made no prophecies, conceived his religion to satiate his lust for power, sex, and money. This guy was a murderer, a terrorist. His slogan was; "I am the prophet that laughs when killing my enemies." (Hadith) Did you get to see Muslim kids in Michigan riot against Christians while police condoned their action? Did you know that the Muslim's goal is to conquer the world and impose their Sharia law upon all people? If you don't convert to their false religion, you'll be dead.
  
  MSGT JOHN CORREA
  USAF (RET)
  - Hocus_Pocus
    
    This country was most certainly not founded upon christian principles, but founded by some christians. Just because some of the principles were similar to christian principles at the time, does not mean anything.
    
    You can't force christian principles on others. Just like Islam can't force its principles on others.
    
    Wake up!
msjallen

Once the present administration removes anything about God and His Word from any government service person the sooner they can turn them against the American people and establish martial law. I wonder when they will take down Moses and the Ten Commandments on the SC building and on the doors inside? With Jesus Christ and His doctrines in the minds of believers they can never take what we know from us.
II Peter 3:8… but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity.
Jer 17:5 Thus says the LORD," Cursed is the man who trusts in mankind and makes flesh his strength, and whose heart turns away from the LORD
- http://www.missiontoisrael.org Ted R. Weiland
  
  msjallen, you have a double standard. You often contest my consistency in pointing out this government's failures (including the constitutional framers and the Constitution itself) while inconsistently picking and choosing the failures you wish to indite. You cannot have it both ways. If you're going to use the Bible and Yahweh's morality (as codified in commandments, statutes, and judgments) as the standard (as you should), you must use it for anything that falls short of that standard, including the Constitution.
  - msjallen
    
    Ted, I am sorry you are confused about my statement. It was meant for freedom of choice to have the Bible available to service personnel in the military as well as any government service. Our Nation is not a monarchy and never should be. If we were a monarchy there would be total control of choices by the government. You go right ahead and continue with your foolish thinking and beliefs — they are not Biblically correct. When Jesus was here on earth He did not get rid of the Roman rule over Palestine but taught how to live within it. You know, give unto Caesar what is his and unto God what is His. Religion has blinded your eyes to the truth. Yes, this country has failed in many ways but it is the greatest country on earth and after the Bible our Contstitution is one of the greatest documents ever written for a government.
    - http://www.missiontoisrael.org Ted R. Weiland
      
      I'm not confused about your statement at all. You clearly have a double standard when it comes to what it the Bible you choose to agree with and how you choose to apply it.
      
      Which is more foolish – hold the Constitution accountable for where it is antithetical and/or hostile to Yahweh's morality, or proclaiming that next to the Bible (which it is antithetical and hostile to), the Constitution is "one of the greatest documents ever written for a government"?
      
      As for being great, you might want to consider what Libertarian attorney Lysander Spooner (1808-1887) wrote. Even as early as the late 19th-century, he (and many others) recognized that the Constitution “has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it.” (Lysander Spooner, No Treason, No. 7, The Constitution of No Authority)
      - Vladimir
        
        Shame on you, msjallen, for waking up Ted R. Weiland. Ted R. Weiland is our resident U.S. Constitution hater. It is his job to turn people against it because it is a barrier to Marxist/Socia list/Liberals like George Soros, BHO, Hillary Clinton and the current crowd that infest this administration. Soros has formed many non-profit socia list institutes and foundations and gives mountains of money to anyone who will push his agenda. Ted R. Weiland is the "religious arm" of this movement. It is his job to turn religious folk against the U.S. Constitution.
      - msjallen
        
        Ted, there have been too many times that I have stated what I believe to you and there is no need to keep bringing up our differences over and over. I will continue to state what I believe on this site and you have that same right. So calm down and stop trying to CONVINCE everyone about your false doctrines. I totally agree with Vladimir in his response to me about you. I consider you a dangerous person going against this great Nation whom God has blessed mightily and given us the freedom to worship Him. The only reason this Nation will go under is because too many people have turn their backs to God and do not learn what His Word says or applies it their lives. Concentrate on Jesus Christ; not your religious rantings.
      - wesley
        
        just visit missiontoirsael.org and see all kinds of things his cult believes. better yet don't and try this one for size. Ted believes that there was a people called the Anglo-Saxons and they were one of the lost tribes of Israel. he believes all the lost tribe ended up being the Germanic tribes of northern Europe. how about the Bible being the literal word of God meaning God literally spoke it like Muslims believe happened with the Qur'an.
      - msjallen
        
        Thank you, I appreciate your information and will view that site.
      - http://www.missiontoisrael.org Ted R. Weiland
        
        Wesley, based on previous rounds with you, it would seem you are prone to identify anything that doesn't agree with your theology professor and certain confessions (which you believe are doctrinally flawless, at least your refused to admit otherwise) as a cult.
        
        You're going to have to explain your last sentence. What does what the Muslims believe happened with the Qur'an have to do with the Bible being the inspired, infallible Word of God?
      - wesley
        
        We believe the Bible, as found in the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts, is the literal Word of God. this is your own statement from your website. how did God write it like he wrote the ten commandment on the stone tablets with his figure or like Daniel 5 the handwriting on the wall?
      - http://www.missiontoisrael.org Ted R. Weiland
        
        Am I understanding you correctly? Are you implying that you *don't* believe what's provided to us in Hebrew and Greek manuscripts, regardless how He provided it to us, is *not* God's Word to us? In other words, that you *don't* believe His Word is inspired and infallible?
      - wesley
        
        the Bible was written man godly men who wrote as the Holy Spirit moved them. it is God's inspired inerrant word.
      - http://www.missiontoisrael.org Ted R. Weiland
        
        Amen! Glad to hear you say it. So what's you beef with me? If you would quit nitpicking what I stated in order to try to indict me in the eyes of others, you'd see were in agreement.
      - http://www.missiontoisrael.org Ted R. Weiland
        
        By the way, Wesley, are you going to be consistent? You've declared my beliefs cultic simply because I believe there's been a case of mistaken identity regarding today's Israelites. So are you now going to likewise declare that anyone who believes the opposite – that is, that today Jews are Israelites (despite the fact that theJews admit they are not in their own Almanacs, Encyclopedias, etc.) are a cult as well? Which is it going to be: consistency or a double standard? Or are you going to simply avoid my questions like you have in the past?
      - wesley
        
        the sign that Pilate had made to state the crime for Jesus was Jesus of Nazareth King of the Jews. after the exile the israelites became known as the Jews for they were called Jews in Babylon which was short for Judah. any church who does not deny the essentials of historical Christianity is not a cult, but any church who does deny the essentials of historical Christianity is and the members are heretics. the church was founded by Jesus Christ himself who started with eleven faithful disciples who he gave the keys to the kingdom to at the cave called the Gates of Hell in caearea philippi who were filled with the Holy Spirit on Pentecost and became the Apostle who preached the good news to first the Jews and then to gentiles of the rest of the Roman Empire making new disciples and passing on the faith from one generation to the next.
      - http://www.missiontoisrael.org Ted R. Weiland
        
        So just what in your statement do you presume* I don't agree with? (*"Through presumption comes nothing but strife…." Proverbs 13:10, NASB) I agree with everything you've written and, more importantly, the Scriptures from which your statements are derived. The Jews (better rendered Judahites) in the Bible are the descendants of the two-tribed house of Judah to whom the gospel went first.
        
        You are so intent on putting me in a bad light that you are, not only nitpicking my statements and thereby misrepresenting them, but you're commenting upon things of which you have no clue about what you're talking about and thereby misrepresenting me and my beliefs. This is because you would appear to be guilty of Proverbs 18:13.
      - Vrae
        
        Ted, will you please name some of these “almanacs, encyclopedias, etc.” that you are referring to?
      - http://www.missiontoisrael.org Ted R. Weiland
        
        "Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a 'Jew' or to call a contemporary Jew an 'Israelite' or a 'Hebrew.'" (Richard Siegel and Carl Rheins, eds., “Identity Crisis,” The Jewish Almanac, (New York, NY: Bantam Books, 1980) p. 3.)
        
        Don't overlook the Chapter title "Identity Crisis," which happens to be the first chapter of the this Almanac.
        
        See also:
        
        The Jewish Encyclopedia
        
        Encyclopedia Judaica
        
        The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia
        
        The Standard Jewish Encyclopedia.
        
        "The Thirteenth Tribe" by Arthur Koestler
        
        And many others.
      - bighoss
        
        Ted, you ask: " What does what the Muslims believe happened with the Qur'an have to do with the Bible being the inspired, infallible Word of God?"
        
        ANSWER: No more than the Anglo-Saxon peoples have to do with being the lost tribes of Israel, which is NOTHING!
      - msjallen
        
        wesley, I reviewed the site and truly understand why Ted is extremely off base when it comes to the teaching of God's Word accurately. It is totally false doctrine. I now know why so many people on this site refute his rantings.
      - http://www.missiontoisrael.org Ted R. Weiland
        
        "I *reviewed* the site and truly understand…" You mean, you're guilty of Proverbs 18:13, as well.
        
        And how about 2 Corinthians 13:1? Would you like to humble yourself and confess you violated what's found in this passage? If not, why should anyone care what your evaluation of anything is?
      - http://www.missiontoisrael.org Ted R. Weiland
        
        I defend the God of the Bible and his morality at every opportunity I can and against all comers, regardless how unpopular, and you side with an antichrist, false accusing Mormon. Not only have you violated 2 Corinthians 13:1 but you didn't even ask Vladimir to provide evidence for his pathetic claims, which he created in his own vindictive heart (Nehemiah 6:8). This speaks volumes about your Christianity.
      - http://www.missiontoisrael.org Ted R. Weiland
        
        This is for Msjallen.
      - Vladimir
        
        Ted R. Weiland, why don't you deny my "pathetic claims". Just say, "I, Ted R. Weiland, don't work directly or indirectly for George Soros or any of his front organizations and I don't accept donations from socia list groups or any groups that are intent on destroying the U.S. Constitution."
      - http://www.missiontoisrael.org Ted R. Weiland
        
        "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him." (Proverbs 26:4)
      - Vladimir
        
        I knew it! YOU ARE WORKING FOR GEORGE SOROS!
      - http://www.missiontoisrael.org Ted R. Weiland
        
        I knew it, YOU ARE STILL FALSE ACCUSING, ANTICHRIST MORMON!
      - Vladimir
        
        You've been exposed as a Marxist/Social/Liberal masquerading as a minister. You can call me anything you want.
josh

this commander has broken his sworn oath to defend and protect the constution of the United States and is therefore not fit to command military forces of the USA–CANN THE SOB
- a cooncerned woman
  
  AMEN
- a concerned woman
  
  AMEN
  
  from a concerned woman
Duke1CA

As Christians, we need to pick our battles here. I believe fighting to preserve Christian references in a missle training course or references to God on national symbols actually undermines our efforts to preserve true Christian liberty. We do need to respect that America has become a religiously-diverse nation and that we need to avoid offending non-Christians needlessly with a phony civil religion. The more we push for this the more hardened non-Christians become toward Christianity, resulting in more and more efforts to curb our real freedoms, like freedom of speech on issues like homosexuality and abortion or just our freedom to talk to people about our faith or worship in public. The Gospel itself is offensive enough without us giving non-Christians other reasons to be offended, which distract from the only issue that really matters – that is, one's understanding of Who Christ Is.
- a concerned woman
  
  you are advocating a slippery slope… I have a friend on facebook … his picture depicting his site is a simple statement
  
  "We can't coexist with people who want to kill us"
  I think he is right.
  Hard heart are not softened by appeasement
  Remember the scorpion and the frog story
  
  The Holy Ghost is the only being who will save us and our cowering from letting it be known that He is central in our lives as Christians, will only make opportunities for the opportunistic… if you know what I mean
- MSGT JOHN CORREA
  
  Read my response to "Chris" so that you may understand exactly what is going on throughout the world where one false religion is trying to dominate the world. One would have to blind not to see in progress.
  
  MSGT JOHN CORREA
  USAF (RET)
Guest

Why are there Christian references in a missile training course anyway? As a Christian who taks Jesus at his word when he says "blessed are the peacemakers" that's actually somewhat offensive to me. That said, I support the congressmen''s efforts to expose any prejudice or anti Christian bigotry in the military.
- wesley
  
  part of being a peacemaker is to discern what is a just war to bring peace and what is pure warmongering. the references came from St. Augustine's just war doctrine. i hope that helps you see why they were there in the first place.
  - a concerned woman
    
    They are there because Our Eternal Father inspired the U. S. revolution of 1775 against British pure tyranny!!! whereby this exceptional nation was born… and the founders knew it and WE as a nation are forgeting it. I quote Ann Romney: Wake Up Michigan, or in other words: Wake Up America!
  - Hocus_Pocus
    
    Being a peacemaker is avoiding war at all costs.
    
    A "just" war is subjective. Self defense is objective – you defend yourself WHEN you are being attacked. Our founders understood these differences, but you neocons don't. We have no right to be the police of the world no matter how subjectively "just" that makes you feel.
robo77155

Panetta and Air Force Chief of Staff Norman Schwartz needs to stop kissing the Muslim B–tard Obama's ass and start looking out for the Brave and Honorable individuals in the U.S. Military! Thats more than you can say about Obama himself and his ACORN, Occupy Movement and His Black Pantherrs that are too cowardly to join the U.S. Military ! The U.S. Military individuals stand up for a True God Loving Democracy rather than a Socialist, Muslim led by Obama and his sorry A-s Democraps!! The Psychopaths:
Atheist and ACLU should be put down in HELL where they belong!!
Vietnam Vet 1962-1967
- jude456
  
  Why do you think Muslim Odummer picked Panetta? He's probably Muslim too. Birds of a feather flock together, right?
  - bighoss
    
    If you apply the same criteria to Panetta to determine his religion as the criteria so often used by nut jobs on this forum to determine the President's religion, you will have to concede that the Secretary is a Roman Catholic. It is tiresomely argued by the Obama detractors that he just must be Muslim because of his history of enrollment and tenure in Muslim schools. Well, you religion detectives, consider this, from the Wikipedia bio on Panetta:
    
    He "attended Catholic schools San Carlos Grammar School and Carmel Mission School."
    
    Those schools are Catholic schools!
    
    Therefore, using the same "reasoning" as Obama haters use for determining HIS religion, Leon Panetta is a Catholic, and thus can not be a Muslim!
    
    Of COURSE he is Catholic, but he COULD nevertheless have attended those Catholic schools and NOT be a Catholic, just as the President attended some Muslim schools in his early youth and is NOT a Muslim!
    
    The nattering nut jobs can't have it both ways!
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Panetta
John

To many Anti religion people in High Command Positions, Socialist Governments do not like GOD the IAM, But pagan Gods are ok. But this has been going on in all services to a POINT. I was in the Army chaplains Corps. when they said we could not preach JESUS NAME.
a concerned woman

The Ballot Box is where this will be changed in November. To hell with the "progessives," God help us in the name of Jesus Christ.
bighoss

General Schwartz is undoubtedly aware of the Air Force's recent history of proselytizting and selective endorsement of evangelical Christianity at the Air Force Academy and elsewhere and he is responsibly doing what he can to prevent recurrence of that unconstitutional activity. There are still within the Air Force officers who will find devious means to repeat those actions if it is not made very plain to them that such things are flat out off limits.
Dennis

Strange in a way.We are told that satan is the ruler of the air and now the Air force is doing everything it can to destroy christianity.Strange correlation wouldnt you say?
- daves
  
  Oh the drama. Is the Air Force really trying to destroy Christianity? Where is your evidence?
bighoss

The Air Force needs to focus its attention on such pressing matters as rape and sexual harassment at its air bases. Behavior of certain training instructors seems to involve considerably more ungodliness than any of the Air Forces efforts to keep religious exercises within Constitutional bounds.See description at :
http://www.htrnews.com/viewart/20120626/MAN0101/3…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/commander-…

"Allegations of misconduct at Lackland came to light in June 2011, when basic military training instructor Staff Sgt. Luis Walker was accused of sexually assaulting a trainee, according to Rice’s statement. An investigation led to 28 charges, including rape, adultery and multiple counts of aggravated sexual assault. He was relieved of his duties and is scheduled for a July court martial. A message left for his civilian attorney, Joseph Esparza, was not immediately returned Friday.

After Walker was charged, several other members of the Military Training Instructor corps have brought forth allegations of inappropriate sexual behavior by instructors at Lackland, Rice’s statement said."

The Air Force is not alone in this:
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18563_162-4872713.htm…

Having young women in the military in constant close contact with young men in the military will inevitably result in scandalous behavior of this kind, since there is a pretty significant fraction of the young American male population who will use force or intimidation to obtain sexual satisfaction from unwilling young women.