This website is a member of Liberty Alliance, which has been named as an company.

Where Christianity intersects with politics, culture, and entertainment.


universe

Would Finding Aliens Shatter Religious Beliefs?

The discovery of life beyond Earth would shake up our view of humanity's place in the universe, but it probably wouldn't seriously threaten organized religion, experts say.

Religious faith remains strong in much of the world despite scientific advances showing that Earth is not the center of the universe, and that our planet's organisms were not created in their present form but rather evolved over billions of years. So it's likely that religion would also weather any storms caused by the detection of E.T., researchers say.

"I think there are reasons that we might initially think there are going to be some problems," said Doug Vakoch, director of Interstellar Message Composition at the SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) Institute in Mountain View, Calif. "My own hunch is they're probably not going to be as severe as we might initially think."

The Bible, Koran and other sacred texts of the world's major religions stress God's special concern for humanity and for Earth. So the discovery of aliens — microbes on Mars, say, or signals from an intelligent civilization in another solar system — might seem threatening, by implying that we and our planet aren't all that special.

Continue reading at www.space.com
 
Posting Policy
We have no tolerance for comments containing violence, racism, vulgarity, profanity, all caps, or discourteous behavior. Thank you for partnering with us to maintain a courteous and useful public environment where we can engage in reasonable discourse. Read more.
  • http://www.divinenewsnetwork.com Min. Thomas Allen

    No it would not… The Nephilim were aliens in a sense, and look what they did!

    Jude 1:6, "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." (KJV)

    Lucifer will use this in the last days to shake people away from the faith.

    • msjallen

      True and…see Gen 6:4 for Nephilim – fallen ones – angels that were capable of having sexual activity. They had half angelic and half human people who became early heroes and are mentioned in what is called Greek mythology but based on a fact. They tried to cut off the line of Christ in the flesh. II Peter 2:4 says they are residing in Hades. They are confined until they go to the Abyss for eternity. After His death, Jesus Christ went to Tartarus and gave the Victorious Proclamation in which He told them they did not succeed in their bold attempt to destroy true humanity and frustrate the 1st Advent.
      The earth was made especially for man to prove to Satan that God was fair to condemn Satan to the eternal Lake of Fire. God does not have to explain anything He does but in His grace He explains why man is on earth through the Doctrine of the Angelic Conflict started in eternity past.

      • keyboardshark

        @ msjallen & Min. Thomas Allen:

        The so-called Nephilim were neither aliens nor angels. The "sons of God" in Genesis 6 are believers, as we see elsewhere in the Bible:

        "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"
        John 1:12

        "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."
        Romans 8:14

        "Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not."
        I John 3:1

        The "giants" also mentioned in Genesis 6 are simply extra-large persons. The word "giants" is the Hebrew word "nephil" or "nephyl" and is the same word used in Numbers 13:33 where it is clearly referring to humans:

        "And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight."

        It is also used in Deuteronomy 2 and again is clearly referring to humans:

        "10 The Emims dwelt therein in times past, a people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims;

        11 Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites called them Emims."

        Besides, no angel is capable of having sexual relations with a human and producing offspring. Angels are spirit beings and are an entirely different class of creation than humans. God created everything after its kind, and a human would no more be able to produce offspring by an angel than they would by a union with an elephant.

        The angels mentioned in Jude are the demonic angels which rebelled against God with Satan, who will be judged and their fate sealed on the last day.

        • msjallen

          I disagree that they were believers because there were only 8 believers in the time of Noah. Not all demon angels were incarcerated except those who could pro-create at that time. There are plenty of demons all over the world doing the bidding of Satan to turn people against God.

          • keyboardshark

            But it doesn't say there were only 8 believers at the time. Genesis 6:1 says, "And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,"

            Then verse 2 mentions the "sons of God": "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."

            It doesn't give us an exact number, but the phrase "when men began to multiply" would indicate that it was some time after the original 8 believers had multiplied, and that it could be a fairly large number.

            True, demons or fallen angels can turn people away from God, but neither "the sons of God" nor the "giants" are used elsewhere in the Bible to indicate that it is referring to fallen angels. The comparison verses I gave you above indicate that they were humans. We have to compare Scripture with Scripture to derive our answer, not rely on what some church or some teacher has told us.

  • Jack

    Exactly, the Nephilim would be the aliens from satan. The article above mentioning that most religions or whatever believe in evolution is preposterous! Has not the author ever heard of Creation Science or ID? Evolution is bunk! It is not scientific in the least!

  • Evermyrtle

    Where did such an idiotic idea come from?. Angels? Nonsense! Angels come from the same place where JESUS CHRIST went after HE was murdered, to be with HIS and our FATHER , it is where Satan was thrown out of. The angels are not aliens, but are of GOD, in heaven!!!

    Now if Angels did come to this earth visually, that would enhance Christianity. They are all around us but we can't see them, they have jumped in and saved most of us from some type of disaster at some time our lives.

    • Curious

      lol…. we are all aliens to this planet. : )

      • Evermyrtle

        We were created by GOD and put here in this universe which HE created, also and gave it to us. That means that we are owners not aliens.

      • mesaman

        Explain your logic please. If we are all aliens when we came to this uninhabited planet to inhabit, does it then follow that earth was an alien planet? If so, aliens would not necessarily be alien when they came to this planet, as they may have come from an inhabited planet, Thus, we are the aliens, but the aliens are not. So what do we call them?

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      Jesus was not murdered. He committed suicide according to the fables of the bible.

    • Evermyrtle

      Good heavens,,, I was reading aliens as angels. I have to get my glasses changed, again as soon as possible!!!!!. but first I'm going to hide in a closet,the darkest one I can find. NO WONDER I GOT SO MANY NEGATIVE VOTES. I THANK ALL OF YOU!!! i DESERVED THEM!!!! I'LL GIVE MYSELF ONE!!

      • Evermyrtle

        I'll make another stab at an answer about the effect aliens may have on earth, if there is any such things. Aliens is of Satan's equivalent of GOD'S ANGELS, and GOD IS MASTER OF ALL. There is very little that will alter Christians of our belief and faith in GOD, if we will keep in touch with HIM in prayer and Bible study.

  • Noreen

    No more than finding Noah's Ark will make believers out of unbelievers…. Our faith doesn't depend upon the visible, but upon the invisible: a relationship with Jesus Christ, the living Word of God. Besides, if we do come into contact with "aliens", they will prove to be demons and won't be the benefactors they appear. My entire family saw a UFO in 1964, and we were drawn more deeply into the occult as a result; not a God experience at all!

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      2 Peter 3:10: “The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.”

      If there are aliens and if the bible is true, then the aliens will be destroyed along with the heavens. They will be destroyed for the actions of humans. Hardly the act of a loving god.

      • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

        Dodo why are you so concerned about something that supposedly will not happen?
        Is this not a sure sign of your acute schizophrenia?

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          Just pointing out the absurdity of the Christian worldview, Humpty.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            No Dodo, you are only showing the chaotic, inconsistent and frantic state of your schizophrenic mind.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            No, I was pointing out that your worldview is idiotic.

      • myth buster

        No more than humanity will be destroyed. That which is free from sin will be purified by that fire, transforming it into a perfect, new creation, which shall not know decay.

  • Aristophanes

    Someone actually "researched" this? This is probably the most idiotic thing I have ever seen!!! Are humans really so arrogant that we think, in all the galaxies and universes out there, that we are the only life form? Puh-lease!!!

  • Sirwizard

    There are alien life forms in our government!

    • KnowTheTruthToday

      I always suspected Pelosi and Reid of having issues.

      • bighoss

        John Boehner is very likely an alien. That skin tone of his is unearthly!

    • mesaman

      Right you are, and NOMObama is the prize example. With faith in the Lord and some reasonable undecided voters, we can transport him back to Uranus or Chicago, whichever.

  • garry williamson

    No where is it written we are the only ones, people have just assumed we are. If GOD is a GOD of creation and eternity has no beginning and no end (which I believe to be true). It would be logical to assume there have been others before us and there will be others after us. The angels are a pefect example the Bible plainly states they where here before us.
    My personal thoughts on this are that if we were created to live forever (before the fall in the garden) then it would only stand to reason that the universe would be a huge place for us to discover and explore.
    And before you blast me remember I said MY PERSONAL THOUGHTS

  • KnowTheTruthToday

    Why would it?

  • msjallen

    If there are so called aliens they would be angels. The elect angels, billions of them, invisible to us are actually in the stands along with all the angelic creatures and they observe you according to 1 Corinthians 4:9 For, I think, God has exhibited us apostles last of all, as men condemned to death; because we have become a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men. And Ephesians 3:10 so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places. 1 Timothy 5:21 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality. I Peter 1:12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven–things into which angels long to look.

  • TEH

    God and his Son are a Universal Event!

  • Buck

    Why shoudl they ? God created everything , on earth and in the universe , including the universe itself , so it only stands to reason that if we are visited by aliens they are GODS creatures just like us .

  • Dennis

    I dont know if anyone here follows the alien thing or ufos but has it ever occured to anyone why they fly here millions of light years away.To drag us from our homes basically rape us then deny who or what YAHSHUA MESSIAH(JESUS CHRIST) is and give a new age message instead? This happens time and time again when you read these stories of peoples encounters.There are no aliens,in my opinion but when you see what they are doing and saying it is clear what they are.Wake up to this deception my friends.for it is coming upon us and i believe ,in some way ,shape or form this alien deception will be "the" or part of ,the great deception spoken of in scripture.

  • keyboardshark

    The Bible is silent concerning intelligent life on other planets or galaxies. If there were any, it would simply mean that God has created life elsewhere besides earth. The reason evolutionists and atheists get excited over supposed evidence of extraterrestrial life is because they believe it would somehow 'prove' evolution was true. Since we would not be able to observe or test anything on the planet they came from, it would just be assumed they evolved.

    Evolutionists are always stumped when it comes to explaining the origin of the first life form, so space aliens offer a convenient vehicle, if you will, to get that initial life to earth without having to explain how it arose. Problem is, it simply pushes the puzzling (from their viewpoint) dilemma off to another planet. Then, they can keep repeating the sequence, hypothesizing that life on any given planet simply came from, you guessed it, another planet. This is a logical fallacy called infinite regress. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_regress

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      They are not stumped. They are exploring the topic. 100 years ago we did not understand how to replace a heart or how to build a ship that could travel to the moon. That did not mean we were stumped. It means we had not yet determined the solution.

      • keyboardshark

        "Exploring the topic". Translated, that means stumped. Replacing a heart valve or building a ship that could travel to the moon are examples of operational science, meaning that they are based on observation and testing of known phenomena. Creating life from nothing, if it were possible, should also be able to be observed and tested, but every attempt to explain it, such as spontaneous generation, have proven to be false when subjected to the rigors of observation and experimentation. There is no known Law or principle of science that would offer an explanation for life to be created from non-living material.

        Since we observe with 100% accuracy that all life we see has arisen from pre-existing life, the only logical conclusion is that creating life from non-living materials is impossible. Stating that "they are exploring the topic" is merely a smokescreen for not having to conclude that it is impossible, which is what we have observed throughout history.

        • Joe Anzilotti

          This is an excellent presentation on the impossibility of life without a Creator Keyboardshark, especially your second paragraph. I really enjoyed reading it! Thanks.
          However, as you and I know, Jeff is not going to yield to such wonderful logic and such an obvious conclusion. He would much rather come up with some antagonistic remark, as I have abundantly noticed for over one year now.
          As an aside, I personally do not think that there are any "aliens" out there in "outer space," as I am convinced that God created space, if you will, for man, of course, to exist in. Further, in space we subsist under time–a sort of common denominator for each one of us. How we use it, and what we do in time, either glorifies the Creator and shows our mettle or shows that we do not have any mettle!
          If I may add to your second paragraph, the mere existence of a conscient life, which as you noted, cannot be reproduced in a "laboratory" or perhaps, might we say in another planet–some zillion "light years" away shows that our existence must come from an eternal life–God / The Logos that became incarnate. There is not other explanation. This is a direct corollary of your second paragraph.

          • keyboardshark

            @Joe

            Yes, I also personally believe that there are no space aliens either. I believe that planet earth is the focus of God's program for life and salvation, but I still have to hedge my bets a little because there is no clear statement in the Bible that would automatically eliminate the possibility. Genesis, however, seems to delineate the difference between the earth and everything else, so this would be at least an implication that earth is unique.

            "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them."
            Genesis 2:1

            "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,"
            Genesis 2:4

            Psalms also tells us the purpose for the heavens is to declare God's glory:

            "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork."
            Psalm 19:1

            I agree with the information you have added. Well spoken. I should have also added that life arising from non-living materials would also violates basic concepts of biology and genetics, as well as the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

          • dwoodpc

            What about the possibility of earth being a generic term in the bible?

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Macaroni 10:4 Wormwood

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            :)

          • Joe Anzilotti

            What about the possibility of The Bible being the only authoritative Book on the Universal God and His manifestation in the flesh–The Christ?

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Well, Wormwood or Jeffrey?

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          It is fortunate that scientists do not share your disdain for the scientific method and the pursuit of knowledge.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            It is fortunate that you are not a "scientist" Jeff. BTW I love the pursuit of knowledge and have nothing against the so called "scientific method." So do not start coming up with fictitious assertions as to what I "disdain" Jeff.

          • DWoodPC

            Ha Joe you are absurd at times .. Jeff is indeed constant, calm, judicious… all the characteristics of a scientist. I am 99% positive he is

          • Joe Anzilotti

            You are truly a dreamer wormwood. : )
            Just like your unfounded "Book of Mormon" and other absurdities–only found in dreams. Macaroni 10:4

          • DWoodPC

            sticks and stones joe

          • Joe Anzilotti

            You don't have to vote for yourself wormwood. Let Jeff do it.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            It is reassuring to see that this is all you can say against the conclusions posted above Jeff. Really though, there is nothing you can say against the reality of facts. You are going to continue with your inane remarks and antagonistic thoughts–as I expected. Sad really.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            No reply from you Jeff, as often seen, is also reassuring. You have no good answers Jeff. Get a real job.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            You have not offered up anything requiring a response. Now Key has been and I have been answering him. You merely offer up inane comments.

          • dwoodpc

            just in, on The Hoggs Boson Particle
            http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/07/05/elusive

          • dwoodpc

            Notice Joe, that the article states that "But there is a twist: the measurements seem to diverge slightly from what would be expected under the so-called Standard Model of particle physics… " I wanted to point out that these models are just that, mathematical models, based upon quantum mechanics, limited by its approximations, but still very good to detect things. :)

            It seems the universe of the atom anyway is a very logical place, even with as little evidence as we have, it does seem to denote there is a logic dynamic here that is more than just random selection (as Darwin theorists suggest)

        • dwoodpc

          Can we agree on something?

          Consider:

          The issues of science-content versus religious-content is often rooted in baseless, absurd cross references, to wit, "there no Law or principle of science that would offer an explanation for life to be created from non-living material." Okay, I understand the need for the juxtaposition. The question implied initiated the science of microbiology and saved many lives. Yet, the question, if anything, solidified the division of labor that developed as it must between the scholarship of the biblical and the scholarship of science.

          Consider furthermore:

          The religious scholar speaks in absolutes, as they must. When they speak of God they speak of Him as the Creator of all things, having infinite intelligence, being everywhere, being infinitely concerned with issues of righteousness of His people and so forth. This is the internal clue that a reference to man's observations, his science, is a non sequitur.

          Science is a new discipline to the world of man – a couple hundred years in terms of advancements to the point of developing the discipline, codifying its methods in order to observe, theories, laws, and so forth. "Science" became a reality through the natural curiosity of man to observe, to put it bluntly, the observables.

          I know science is boring to literature-lovers as yourself, yet, it is the mere truth.

          Please don't tell me things like I don't believe in the real God. That is one absurdity you nor anyone else knows except myself. That doesn't change the argument. God created man and the KJ Bible, to me, is the most correct book on the face of the Earth, bar-none, and yes, I believe contains the essence of all we need to know. And, I know that God continues to enlighten us spiritually.

          Here's the thing: God created man. Man created science. I know that God encourages we use the intelligence he gave us and that He encourages us to labor hard having been cast out of the garden. That is an encouragement to take care of ourselves, explore science. What is science? It is the study of the eternal creations, but not of The Creator. Consider the implications of what science knows (very little) and what is to be known of God's creations (an infinity of information.)

          What science is not: It is not the study of God. Even though, many scientists, like myself, when I see beauty at every turn in my observation of science, it increases my appreciation for God and what He has done for us.

          Do you think you understand better why scientists are humble in the face of creation? And can you just be more patient and just in your assessments of scientists? They are looking only for facts. None scientist has the primary goal of studying or using literature. Few true scientists give a hoot if what they observe is written up to share with everyone. Though they often have the kind of job where they must do so, while the religious scholar always MUST do so, but note that evangelicals are aplenty in both disciplines.

          • keyboardshark

            Science is not boring to me as you seem to assume. At least not real science. What I tire of hearing is speculations about the past that are based on assumptions and cannot be observed or tested in the present, being passed off as "science".

            Operational science, which deals with the observable, testable and repeatable present, has brought very much benefit to mankind. And as "luck" would have it (note the sarcasm), virtually all of the modern branches of science were founded by Bible-believing scientists, such as Faraday, Galileo, Kepler, and Boyle, just to name a few. http://unmaskingevolution.com/29-100_scientists.h

            True, science is not the study of God, but it is a study of the universe and world He created, which is governed by the laws which He also created to maintain order. And I believe that is why it was Bible-believers who were able to finally unlock the mysteries of the world, such as electricity, which we now take for granted–they realized that the universe was much more than just a random collection of forces and matter, but rather a orderly yet complex creation of God.

          • DWoodPC

            Thus — I am happy to say — we are on the same page . "…orderly yet complex…" I think you did reiterate my main point very nicely. Also, I did not mean to imply at all that you thought that science was boring. I apologize if you got that impression. I am not accustomed to blogging and the science that I write about is almost all math and graphs.

            Henry Eyring was one of my favorite scientists. He is American, went to Germany and studied with Max Planck (of Planck's constant fame) and has been mentioned many times by Nobel Laureates in Physics/Chemistry for his transition state theory which was groundbreaking for studying the mechanisms of fast reactions. He once wrote a story about a famous Welch Foundation meeting that often took place in Houston. He once asked the question of the gathering of many important American scientists in attendance "Do you believe in God?" and everyone of them raised their hand. I think that is comforting, but that was 30 years ago. I think the vote would be very different today.

          • DWoodPC

            KBshark said: "What I tire of hearing is speculations about the past that are based on assumptions and cannot be observed or tested in the present, being passed off as "science". "

            I couldn't agree with you more .. the characters who promote this kind of science would be the one who would not raise their hands to Henry's question "Do you believe in God?" I think we always need to know just who is working on especially in the life sciences on stem cell research and why they do it and where they are going with it, do they intend to use aborted babies in their research etc etc, or if the scientist from China is an American before he gets millions to do research on his new idea to make bombs, … these kinds of questions really encourages my exploration into these peoples' motive with regard to the safety, not to mention the soul of America. Romney said this election is for the soul of America. Time will tell.

          • DWoodPC

            Lots of times such empty speculations as you tire of, are promoted in order to hide the real agenda, so you are correct in your concern against these really very serious matters of so-called "science", that costs the taxpayer mega-millions of dollars…

            Ann Romney said WAKE UP MICHIGAN… —-> extrapolate that to WAKE UP AMERICA… in many instances, not all, they are stealing up blind

          • DWoodPC

            I apologize for saying that about literature lovers … I did say explicitly that you thought science is boring. I am a literature lover also and I don't fall in that category.. it just seems on this blog when it comes to the simple question of science it is demeaned by certain folks who are wholly disrespectful of the topic. That is obviously not you.

      • Joe Anzilotti

        Sure Jeff "exploring the topic"–right. You are going to be exploring the topic until death–never certain about any one thing. "Evolving" like the present administration.

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          Scientists are very certain that evolution is accurate. I am too.

          It is always amusing to hear the king of the Luddites pontificate on scientific knowledge.

          • keyboardshark

            Here is a good explanation of the atheistic naturalist's dilemma:

            "When thoroughly scrutinized, error always exposes itself through some kind of self-contradiction. Truth alone stands the test of scrutiny. One such example is highlighted when considering a fundamental plank of the atheistic naturalist’s position.

            The atheist says, “I refuse to consider believing in anything that isn’t natural—whose explanation cannot be found in nature. Everything must and can be explained through natural processes.” So, according to the atheist, the existence of everything in the Universe must be explainable by natural means—nothing unnatural (e.g., a supernatural Being) can be considered in the equation. Evolutionary geologist Robert Hazen, who received a Ph.D. in Earth Science from Harvard, is a research scientist at the Carnegie Institution of Washington’s Geophysical Laboratory and a professor of Earth Science at George Mason University. In his lecture series, Origins of Life, Hazen said:

            In this lecture series I make a basic assumption that life emerged by some kind of natural process. I propose that life arose by a sequence of events that are completely consistent with the natural laws of chemistry and physics. In this assumption I am like most other scientists. I believe in a universe that is ordered by these natural laws. Like other scientists, I rely on the power of observations and experiments and theoretical reasoning to understand how the cosmos came to be the way it is (2005, emp. added).

            The problem is that in holding this position, the naturalist quickly runs into walls of scientific fact that contradict it. The laws of science are formal declarations of what have been proven, time and again through science, to occur in nature without exception. The naturalist cannot hold a view that contradicts the laws of nature and not simultaneously contradict himself.

            But this is precisely the position that the naturalist is in. He must allege an explanation not in keeping with nature for many things we find in the Universe. For example, the naturalist’s explanation of the origin of matter and energy (i.e., spontaneous generation or eternal existence) is unnatural (i.e., in contradiction to the 1st and 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics; see Miller, 2007). The naturalist must further contradict himself by alleging an unnatural explanation for the origin of life (i.e., abiogenesis, in contradiction to the Law of Biogenesis; see Miller, 2012).

            And what’s more, the naturalist must contradict himself by alleging that various kinds of living creatures can give rise to other kinds of living creatures through macroevolution—a contention which, unlike microevolution, has never been observed to occur in nature (see Thompson, 2002). Abiogenesis, spontaneous energy generation, the eternality of matter, and macroevolution are all unnatural suggestions since they have never been observed to occur in nature, and yet they are fundamental to the naturalist’s unnatural view. Simply put, the atheistic naturalist’s position is self-contradictory.

            The worldview that is in keeping with the evidence—that is not self-contradictory—is the Christian faith as described on the pages of the Bible. The naturalist cannot explain the Universe without relying on unnatural means. The creationist has no problem with unnatural explanations, since the Bible clearly states that God—a supernatural Being—created the Universe and life. Truth is never self-contradictory. When scrutinized, it always comes out on top. When a person chooses to fight it, he will inevitably get hurt in the end. “The fool has said in his heart, ‘There is no God’” (Psalm 53:1)."
            http://www.apologeticspress.com/apPubPage.aspx?pu

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Key says: “I refuse to consider believing in anything that isn’t natural.

            We have no evidence of anything that exists that is not natural. It is not a refusal, it is an acceptance of the reality of the universe.

            Key says" in contradiction to— the naturalist’s explanation of the origin of matter and energy"

            Not if the universe is eternal and has always existed. There can certainly be multiple Big Bangs. The universe expands, then contracts and a new Big Bang starts the process over.

          • keyboardshark

            Actually, my quote was "The atheist says, “I refuse to consider believing in anything that isn’t natural…"

            Jeff says: "We have no evidence of anything that exists that is not natural."

            The existence of the universe is not natural. Its existence cannot be explained by natural processes. There are only two possibilities: Either the universe was created supernaturally, or it was created naturally. But in order for there to be a natural creation, all kinds of scientific Laws, which are themselves natural, would have to be violated.

            The universe cannot be eternal, because it would violate the Laws of Energy Conservation. The amount of useful energy in the universe is constantly decreasing, so it had to have an initial state (beginning) when 100% of the energy was useful. We cannot get an infinitely high percentage of useful energy, which would be required if the universe were eternal.

            Since we are talking about a fixed amount of energy in the universe (energy can be neither created nor destroyed), we have to start with 100% and continue decreasing until a point in the future when there will no longer be any useful energy remaining, and the percentage will be 0%.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            The universe can be eternal if there is a repeated pattern of expansion, contraction and a new Big Bang. There is evidence of this idea.
            http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-11-scientists-gl
            However, Penrose and Gurzadyan have now discovered concentric circles within the CMB in which the temperature variation is much lower than expected, implying that CMB anisotropies are not completely random. The scientists think that these circles stem from the results of collisions between supermassive black holes that released huge, mostly isotropic bursts of energy. The bursts have much more energy than the normal local variations in temperature. The strange part is that the scientists calculated that some of the larger of these nearly isotropic circles must have occurred before the time of the Big Bang.

          • keyboardshark

            And where did all that energy come from that supposedly did all this? Sorry to spoil the narrative with such a simple question.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Then do not be concerned, for you did not ruin it.

            If the universe has always existed, then the energy and matter in the universe have always existed as well.

            As Stephen Hawking writes: "the quantum theory of gravity has opened up a new possibility, in which there would be no boundary to space-time and so there would be no need to specify the behavior at the boundary. There would be no singularities at which the laws of science broke down and no edge of space-time at which one would have to appeal to God or some new law to set the boundary conditions for space-time. One could say: "The boundary condition of the universe is that it has no boundary." The universe would be completely self-contained and not affected by anything outside itself. It would neither be created nor destroyed. It would just BE." Hawking, A Brief History, p. 136.

          • keyboardshark

            One can postulate virtually anything they want, but subscribing divine qualities, such as being self-contained, not affected by anything outside itself, or not being able to be created nor destroyed, to an inanimate universe, is merely wishful thinking. While it offers a convenient explanation for the problems that are unexplainable from a naturalistic perspective, it is pure speculation that would not only violate known Laws of science, but principles of sound logic.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Not when the evidence points to that being the answer. Quantum theory has set old ideas aside.

          • keyboardshark

            So the Laws of Science are considered to be "old ideas"? That's news to me.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Like you really do know what Quantum theory means Jeff. Neither you nor Hawking can comprehend infinity with regards to time or space and now you have become enamored by the "Big Bang"–it does not take much to keep you occupied. Google and the Big Bang–knock yourself out.

          • Despeville

            :) Dodo's pleasure: rehashing old stuff and presenting his discoveries… Hahahhahaha

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Humpty Dumpty rehashing old bible fables as if they are true.

            Your beliefs about fairy tales is what is laughable.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Besides, Quantum theory is hardly old stuff, moron.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Hahahahahah sure simpleton… AHhahahahahahaha

          • DWoodPC

            TOE do you know what that means in terms of physics (not feet)

          • DWoodPC

            TOE do you know what that means in terms of physics versus quantum mechanics vs thermodynamics (i.e. not toes or feet)

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Kiddo do not strain yourself with your shenanigans. None is buying your pretense…

          • DWoodPC

            You are obviously in the negative on study of Nature; Nature being God's creation. Many are in the same boat as you, so you feel smug. It is from that point of view that you can be so critical, without being accountable. That is not a good sign for a man of God. You should repent. (I do everyday do don't bother telling me to do so.)

          • DWoodPC

            Jeff, will you please explain TOE to these jokers.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            A Theory of Everything would unify all the fundamental interactions of nature: gravitation, strong interaction, weak interaction, and electromagnetism.

            However, explaining it would take much more space than is allowed here. I am also not a physicist. If they are interested, they should read up on the topic.

          • DWoodPC

            THANK YOU JEFF DIXON!

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Nice googling Jeff. Now we need to teach you Noodling.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Try explaining it Jeff, I need some good entertainment.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Theory of Everything. What about it?

          • DWoodPC

            For one thing it would blend the mathematics of thermodynamics and quantum mechanics in a way that would make these two essentially defunct. It would change all the instrumentation built upon those two "parameters" so when we see something with the instrument which are our "eyes" we will see it differently . No one has come up with the TOE, but many are making the effort. Look up what kept Einstein enthralled in the last years of his life. If he looks like he is distressed in photos it is because the TOE had him totally stumped. I imagine Hawking must have something to say about it. Hawking is pretty much the top when it comes to physicists.

            One of Einstein's best friends was Henry Eyring (when he asked Einstein what was his gardener planting when Henry could see he was planting beans, Albert said he didn't know) Henry famously reported that "Einstein didn't know beans."

          • Joe Anzilotti

            This bean thing, wouldbephd, is actually pretty funny–but not any funnier than what you and Jeff manage to put out together as your relationship develops. : )

          • dwoodpc

            I can travel to the other side of the earth and talk to a scientist the way I talk to Jeff, dear Joe. It is not me and Jeff … it's logic that you would not understand even though you think you do … to wit: you think you "understand" God's gospel logically… well. hate to tell you , so don't shoot the messenger… you DON'T …. What you do is not logic… let me re-iterate: You do not use logic to study religion. You use religion to study religion! And religion is based upon MIRACLES, dear Joe. Get a grip.

          • Eric

            What do you use to study miracles then? What do you use to study logic? If logic studies logic, how do we know which one is illogical: the logic we begin with or the logic we are studying? Likewise with religion; if religion studies religion, which "religion" gets tossed when a conflict arises?

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Did you hear that sound Eric? It went right above Deadwood's head and solely because hes ducked…

          • dwoodpc

            Henry Eyring's son is Henry B. Eyring, first counselor is the presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Look him up at lds.org… I will plagiarize the site and get a copy/paste of one of his quotes just for you Joe, from his book TO DRAW CLOSER TO GOD: http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/91549.Henr

          • dwoodpc

            I think the only One who knows is Our Father in heave.

          • dwoodphd

            heaven :)

            So no amount of Googling or Noodling wiil divulge it

          • dwoodpc

            Jeff: Did you see the news on the new particle found at CERN in Switzerland?

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Gee, who did not…?

          • dwoodphd

            I know what it means joker Joe Anzilotti. Quantum theory has nothing to do with infinity at this time unfortunately. It is limited because it is not purely TOE. Ask Jeff what that means. Sure we would like to capture the nature of infinity — you are right to say it is incomprehensible at this time. We have only touched on knowing a miniscule of the infinities… so what do you expect … that persons who have an interest in knowing all of God's creations should give up … you treat is like it is such a menial exercise! I will tell you this much: Our Father who art in heaven, i.e. Heavenly Father wants us to know Him and His creations, so on that count Jeff IS smarter than you. He is not knee deep in the philosophies and the misinterpretations of men!!! He is onto what is actually happening in the universe. Not a thing wrong with that and I know that Our Father who art in Heaven would defend his right to investigate as he choses..

          • Joe Anzilotti

            This is just wonderful stuff there wouldbephd. Thanks for talking about the "infinities"–it really touches my heart : )
            I can't wait to see what Jeff will have to say about your TOE.

          • DWoodPC

            IamPhD… the PC in my "new name" stands for my science field

            I hope Jeff takes it on!!

            Thanks jokerJoe : )

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Hey I liked the old name better.
            Yes, you are right, it is easy to see that Jeff is interested in "knowing all of God's creations"–sorry, I missed that.

          • DWoodPC

            the new name is more specific… anyway no one likes a phd it is lonely at the top

            Jeff needs some scripture .. I wonder if he has read any.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            You are as much a PhD as I am a Roman Catholic nun… :) Who are you fooling? :0

          • DWoodPC

            Gotcha

          • dwoodpc

            Nuns serve the Lord. They are oblivious to your kind.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Yeah, sure. They serve Roman "lord"

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            "And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. And the LORD said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, whither I will drive them." (Ezekiel 4:12-13)

            "But Rabshakeh said unto them, Hath my master sent me to thy master, and to thee, to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?" (II Kings 18:27)

            "If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart. Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it." (Malachi 2:2-3)
            .

          • Joe Anzilotti

            I have to agree with you there PHD, Jeff does need some scripture.

          • Despeville

            Mormon's?

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            I offered you some scripture. Did it not make you feel more spiritual?

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Dodo,

            You and Scriptures do not match just like a blind man and a microscope does not.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Your analogies are pointless as usual, Humpty.

          • Despeville

            Of course they are for an imbecile like you. Most will observe it and understand it.

          • DWoodPC

            Check it out Joe! Jeff finally answered!!

          • Joe Anzilotti

            If you give Jeff long enough time to come up with something, he usually does a fairly decent job at plagiarizing someone thanks to google "Chrome" and the advent of the "smart" phone. With these 2 items, life for him has become a breeze.

          • dwoodpc

            Joe: I notice all of us have learned to copy/paste, but I learned in high school English from my Shakespearean-actor teacher, that plagiarizing is a no-no and could get one thrown out of school. He taught us to judiciously reference. I don't see scientists like Jeff plagiarizing. He is logical, you know, as God is. Deep inside he is a child of God and deep inside he knows it. He embodies more religion in his little finger than some I know on this site in their entire parts. So please remember you may incur the wrath of some judicious person when you attack Jeff for being honest.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            " He is logical, you know, as God is. "

            Maybe your bathroom going "god" and Jeff is a irrational schizophrenic and does not know a first thing about logic, despite his Wikipedia "research" :)

          • DWoodPC

            And TOE will set Quantum Theory in the dysfunctional category — and all that work would have been for naught

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            It would not be for naught. It would be part of the foundation that helped us get to the next level. Like with all advancements that mankind makes. Without any help from any gods i should add.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            From Cephalization to the Big Bang and on to the TOE–we are just an advanced bunch of folks. And now people don't even have to think; why, with the advent of the smart phone and all.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Joe, your posts show that you have no ability to think.

          • Despeville

            Dodo, your numb-nut in your cranium evolved past that function. You have Google and vast reservoir of human stupidity on the net to sync with.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Between Google and the bible, I will tak Google every time. I prefer information that is useful.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            That is why you are a moron.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            That is why you will never understand how the world operates.

          • Despeville

            LOLOL hahahhahahaha

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Yes Jeff, google really helps one understand "how the world operates." Oh my goodness, you are funny!

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Your kind words Jeff bring an overwhelming sense of well being to my heart Jeffrey.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Start offering something of value then.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            No colors for the blind.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            No reasoning with the delusional.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Exactly, that is why I do not discuss Scriptures with you and most of your old canards you have copied of the dumbest parts of the internet.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            You drink your Canards, Humpty. You should give your liver a break.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            I wish you could give a break to your lying tongue and your dumbness.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Humpty, you stated that you drink wine every nite. I am not lying at all.

          • Despeville

            Nope Dodo. I said that enjoy wine and have a glass of with with a dinner. That is a difference and you purposefully blur it to smear me for you cannot do anything else.

          • myth buster

            But that isn't even truly atheism; rather, it is pantheism, that is, declaring the Universe itself to be God. So by your own logic, or rather Hawking's, whom you subscribe to, you either believe that God created the Universe, or that God is the Universe, but in no way could you say that there is no God.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Stating the universe is eternal is not calling it god. The universe is not conscious. It does not have a purpose, it merely is.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            I don't think that you are conscious Jeff. At any rate we discussed this already. See immediately above. Oh I see, you didn't read it carefully. What else is new?

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Joe, you have never offered anything of value to read.

          • Despeville

            Oh yes he did because in deference to you Dodo he reads way more and o way higher level than you and your popular science books for dimwits.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            lol. He offers hope for Luddites, as you do for the delusional.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Schizoid you need your check up and pronto.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Everything is firing on all cylinders. But thanks for the fake concern.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            You meant misfiring on all cylinders Jeff.

          • Despeville

            No, misfiring on all synapses Joe.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Maybe even not firing on any synapse. That would have to be an option with Jeff.

          • Despeville

            No wonder you merely are too Dodo along with your stupefying superficiality and nitwit cliche urban myths.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Thank you for showing your inability to use English once again.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Jeff merely is alright. I hear that!

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            I am alright. Thanks for the fake concern.

          • DWoodPC

            Agreed.. "Jeff merely is alright!" said JOE

            dwoodphd, phys/chem

          • Dionesius3

            Phd, your phd is not worth the paper it is written on. You have no ability to think your a moron for goodness sakes. No moron Mormon uses their brain unless their elders tell them it's o.k.

            The greatest Mormon scholar couldn't get a job at a real university, they have to work in the Mormon universities. Where they are told what to think, and say, and read lest they learn the truth of their fairy-tale religion.

            It's hilliarious that DWoodPc, aka DWoodphd, the moron Mormon is befriending Jeff Dixon, aka the google queen, who never presents one original thought on any subject.

            Jeff has to check with his god google before he posts, and DWood has to check with her moron Mormon husband before she posts.

            It is absolutely hilliarious!!!

            Keep it up you two pea brains, LOL

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Gee Dion you are being sort of rough on our 2 resident scientists–especially now as their relationship recently started to "evolve." The stress may be overwhelming already.

          • Dionesius3

            Hahaha, that's good for a laugh!!

            These two love birds are certainly cut from the same cloth.

            It is just funny how DWood will latch on to ANYTHING that she feels discredits Christianity, and then in her next breath she says she is a christian.

            Seems moron Mormons can't really make up their mind on the question. One minute they love and want to be called a Christian, and the next they are trying to tear Christianity to pieces.

            The textbook definition of; "a fool in his folly".

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Would you happen to know the way to Kolob? Should I check National Geographic?

          • Despeville

            Joe just wait for nightly demonic download like these Mormons (or morons like Romans 1:22 states) do…

          • Dionesius3

            Kolob, Kolob, isn't that the name of the spider in Lord of the Rings you know the one that tries to eat Frodo, yes that is the spiders name Kolob.

            I think it might be right next to golob, and holob, just south of nabob, which by the way is exactly what DWood is a nabob.

          • dwoodpc

            cc: Jeff & Vlad: To: Joe: we are already aware of possible permanent damage to Dionesius3, so good, I am soooooooooooooo glad to see you are looking after your brother.

            I am heading to the gym to catch the fireworks display. Happy 4th ***

          • dwoodpc

            cc: Vlad & Jeff, To: Dionesius3: I see I have made it into your Book of Remembrances and you are digging for more private information on me. BTW, I won't tell you at this time who printed up my Ph. D. diploma as it would incite envy in your puritan heart and — as Vlad so touchingly put it, and I am sure Jeff would agree – we would not want to cause you any permanent damage.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            I believe the damage is already done.

          • dwoodphd

            KBshark: how did you get all this text to print in one block without intervention from the webmaster?

          • keyboardshark

            @ dwoodphd: You have to use Google Chrome as your web browser. Internet Explorer will only allow you to post a small block of text. You can download Chrome here:
            https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/browser/

          • dwoodphd

            : ) thank you sosososososo much

          • keyboardshark

            You're welcome. A tip of the hat to Jeff Dixon who passed that info on to me a while back. Thanks, Jeff.

          • dwoodphd

            Amen

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Yes, Jeff is all over Google, Chrome or otherwise. All of his research, I am afraid, is "google based." He also uses workfromhome.com and it really makes a difference in his community.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            I should add–because it keeps him indoors! : )

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Joe, your hatred of technology can be cured.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Maybe but your imbecility cannot be.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Delusional Disorder
            Paranoia and Related Illnesses
            Alistair Munro, Dalhousie University, Nova Scotia
            http://www.cambridge.org/gb/knowledge/isbn/item11

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Dodo we know what you have but thanks for your self disclosure…

          • dwoodpc

            good book Jeff … just what is needed here,since it " Includes many informative case histories and Emphasizes that the condition is treatable, and gives clear guidelines for diagnosis and treatment" The infinity you study is the human psyche?

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            I am interested in many areas, but biology is my favorite.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Yes the study of life that just came to be–out of nothing! Your use of the term "biology" is actually on the level of an oxymoron. Congratulations on not making any sense, yet again Jeff!

          • Joe Anzilotti

            I am quite recalcitrant Jeff.

          • dwoodpc

            meaning, in your case, exactly what, Joe?

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Nonsense. You love authority. You pray for it every day. The humorous thing is that the authority you pray for does not exist.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Why don't you go and google the meaning of the term again Jeff? This time look it up in English!

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            You are welcome. I always enjoy passing along useful information.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            You may be passing but definitively not information Dodo

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Here is more useful information, Humpty. You are a pompous blowhard with the maturity level of a child and the ability to use English that requires some remedial classes to even start trying to be coherent.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            "Scientists are very certain that evolution is accurate. I am too."
            Right Jeff! You are dreaming. And you know how we know that for certain? By this simple fact: you are not willing to die for your, so called, "accurate" conclusion.
            You are sad Jeff. Go get a real job.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Once again you offer pointless comments. You are more fun when you rail against science. At least that gets to the core of your beliefs.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            You don't know Jeff, what it means to really believe in something. You just issue forth a lot of empty words.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            So, when you rail against Google or smart phones, you are offering words of substance? Please stop, my sides are hurting from laughing so much.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Don't get a hernia now Jeff. Go easy.

          • Despeville

            Dodo,

            Here are two tenets of your beliefs:

            A.There is no God
            B.You hate Him…

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Except I do not hate any gods. Just another aspect of a reality you cannot comprehend.

          • Despeville

            Sure… you do not :) and none of us observed that here and in plethora or evidence. Hey, but we Christians just conspire against you… Hahahhahahhaha

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Christians have conspired against science for thousands of years. That is true. I am glad to see you opening up to reality.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Congratulations Dodo! ~ http://youtu.be/YpuRcmPnSTM

          • DWoodPC

            dream on Jeff … and remember, "sometimes on the way to a dream you get lost and find a better one." Real thinkers are approved by the Father, you will find his truths and revel in them while on your stated mission. The discouragers are those who follow the adversary who eggs them on to be so cruel. Just remember who you are: You are a child of God and He knows us personally. You don't need the approval of airheads to know Him. Promise.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            This is really touching wouldbephd. I am more of the idea, though, that sometimes on a way to a dream one never wakes up. Thinking is; however, approved by the Father. Promise.

          • DWoodPC

            Haven't you heard of REM sleep where all problems are unconsiously being solved…. maybe you exegesisians should get more of that … Heavenly Father could intervene there and provides some truths you seem to be missing. You need a bit more of the Holy Spirit too. It will help a lot with your efforts to convert Jeff to the fold. Promise. 10:4

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            So you get those heavenly down loads from Kolob while you are a sleep? That would explain your trance like nonsensical repetitions.

          • DWoodPC

            I have learned the hard way that a teacher must repeat!!! sometimes several times over to get the point across… I have noticed this to be a characteristic of preachers as well. Et tu Brute?

            Not that I am a working person as well as a response ible one.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            So your kolob "god" installs his downloads in you repeatedly till you get it and sync it? You must have one small and slow RAM then…

          • DWoodPC

            No actually the continuous input and exercise and additional use also of REM for the little gray cells has permitted me quite good results in my scientific career… I have also experienced being a part of some advances in that thing (which you use to write such demeaning things about other than yourself) called a "computer." It is a result of science you know DV, not preaching

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Is this gibberish characteristic of your everyday speech, or do you actually speak English sometimes?

          • Despeville

            Deadwood, I think you might be a bit dehydrated or something.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            We know that is never an issue for you, Humpty. Your never empty bottle of wine keeps you well soaked in liquid.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Dodo,

            When you not plastering imbecilic canards refuted ages ago you can only smear people personally. Always inane and always useless you are.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Useless to delusional people, that is true.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Your mumbling is on a HS sophomore's level at best. It can only be useful to someone who is dumber and even less educated than you are.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            You should enjoy it then.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            There is no reason to assume REM is god helping out. Until a god is shown to exist, it is just more nonsense.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Yes, Dodo tell it as it is… :)

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            I always tell it as it is. Sadly, you have no idea what that means.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            I know you do Dodo and funny enough I know that is completely meaningless just like your godless life is although that is actually sad.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Sure you do, Humpty. The mere idea that you know anything is laughable.

          • Despeville

            Yawn… You are so boring today Dodo.

          • DWoodPC

            I know He is… and that is something you cannot argue with… i.e. something that I know is True …. how do you know you love someone Jeff? Don't you just … know it !!!

            By the way. You have not given me your opinion on TOE. (vs quantum mechanics) as a way of analyzing the infinities)

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Some people think they are in love and realize they are not. Gut feelings are hardly the way to determine if something is accurate.

            TOE is not a way of analyzing the infinities.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            "Theory of Everything"–sure. Is that related to "our" plan to colonize Mars or Jupiter sometime in the future as "our" "knowledge" evolves beyond iphones? I can't wait. I feel a "tingle up my legs" just thinking about it. Actually I would just be satisfied if we can colonize "kolob." : )

          • Dionesius3

            Why not analyse your own cartoon based god heavenly father DWood, and compare it to the real God found in the Bible! It will blow your little two watt light bulb of a mind.

            And while your at it explain how it is that a good moron Mormon wants to team up with a godless atheist like Jeff Dixon???

            Are you trying to love him into your cartoon religion???

            Or are you just looking for a fling???

          • Despeville

            You missed a big announcement Dion. They are both scientists :) :) :) :0

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            I am funnier than most.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            In your mind only Dixon.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            No one finds you humorous, Humpty. Pompous windbags have no idea what humor is.

          • Despeville

            Dodo, you are too ignorant and too unread to take any of what you mumble about as valuable or meaningful. So keep on your moronic rant.

          • http://twitter.com/ohionippon @ohionippon

            Your comments are pointless, and mine will be over your head. Whatever. From one Christian to an athiest looking into infinity, your knowledge would be considered at the same level as mine. You would make an infinity number of mistakes same as me. You are not smart enough to know that and I am. The Christian wins!

          • DWoodPC

            Please don't underestimate the power of atheists to know if thy can make mistakes. They have made plenty and know it that is why the step to belief is a hard one to take.
            "Love one another as I have loved you." Who said that? Jesus of course. So please stop playing superior to any child of God, which we all are. 10:4

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            It is actually the Theists who do not realize they are making a mistake.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Jeff tell it as it is…

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Humpty, I have always told it as it is. You merely are unwilling to listen.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Dodo you are not telling anything new that I have not studied 10 years ago or 3 months ago (depending on the topic). Additionally you are not really telling anything but mindlessly and carelessly plagiarize most absurd and stupefying canards from the dumbest portions of the net. In short Dodo you are a Moron as Paul called you in Romans 1:22

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            That you use bible verse as your basis for understanding anything shows your inability to actually understand anything.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Dodo that is your lame numb nut shenanigan only. Bible does not explain "anything" It does explain some things and of the most importance.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            No, it actually does not explain anything least of all the issues of an afterlife. It is your fear of death that makes you run for the cover of religion.

          • Despeville

            Hahahahahah sure Dodo. And it is your Oedipus complex making you hate the faith and religion of your father.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Ah yes, the dreaded Oedipus complex. Hmm, but should I have not killed my father instead of making a home for him with me? I certainly did not marry my mother.

            Wait a minute, silly me. You are merely making up a new definition of what that complex means.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            I know Dixon that with your red neck education you have never heard about this besides what you have just read on Wikipedia. That is why you can only think about this in this cliche way which further proves that you are unread moron.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Humpty, when all you do is make up definitions for words, it would be impossible to know what idiotic point you are trying to make.

          • Despeville

            Sure dodo, like with Oedipus complex about which you just learned and feel and expert on after reading a short reference of Wikiepdia. You are truly a pathetic imbecile.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            That you use your atheist stance as your basis for understanding anything Jeff, shows your inability to actually understand anything.

          • DWoodPC

            We all know we are making mistakes… that is why I —speaking strictly for myself — repent frequently

            BTW: I have no interest in Buddha as a focus of my life, I don't care how much he is right on about this that or the other… It is not a Christian religion and that is reason enough for me. I love Christ and follow Him as the best example (He is called Exemplar) I know on the Earth.

          • Dionesius3

            Hey DWood, in case your unaware your not in a Christian religion, your in a mind controlling cult called Mormonism. Which has about as much in common with Biblical Christianity as a lemon has in common with automobile.

            You don't love Christ, because you don't know Christ. You think he is the spirit brother of lucifer. And you think they both have the same daddy.
            And you believe that this heavenly daddy demands his followers to wear magical underwear.

            Your so funny, and so pathetic, that it makes me laugh and cry at the same time.

            Get a clue moron Mormon, and find the real God before its too late.

          • dwoodpc

            You need to repent Dionesius3. You are repeating yourself. That is evidence of a limited view of the Eternal Father … pray for redemption … btw, happy 4th of July. I am enjoying the middle of John Adams by John McCullough … also a man of God , after spending the morning celebrating the 4th with some great Americans at a prayer breakfast at our church. : ) It is unlikely that I will follow any of your advice, though I have eternal hope you consider mine.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Buddha expressed a similar concept hundreds of years before Jesus supposedly existed.

            "Just as a mother would protect her only child at the risk of her own life, even so, cultivate a boundless heart towards all beings. Let your thoughts of boundless love pervade the whole world." (Sutta Nipata 149-150)

          • DWoodPC

            Sutta Nipata and his followers would love to come to the good ole USA and get my job too and since I won't join up in their worship they could care less if I have a job. You have to look at the practical side of what you believe. I believe that Christ died for everyone, including the Nipata followers, let them join us and ketow to our way of life. their's is not an iota as successful as ours,and that is why they would suppress us in a minute if they could. If you don't believe me, get involved in the politics of working with these people. Start at your local university. I know more. Just ask me.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Are you suffering from suttanipataistic oppression?

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Most on here suffer the pain of reading your absurd postings, Humpty.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            So Dodo? Are you going to sue Jesus for Siddhārtha's patent infringement?
            And how "similar' is this really if not a reduction of your simpleton's numb-nut?

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            One cannot sue a myth, Humpty.

          • Despeville

            LOLOL you are really getting dumber.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            The Christian does not win. You merely voice baseless assumptions. That is not a win.

          • DWoodPC

            The Christian however fosters win-win situations, though it is difficult for you to see that from your nemeses on this blog. I am talking about Joe, DV and Dion who seem to think they can use negativity to con you into the belief that God exists. But remember what St. Anselm — or is it David — said that "Only a fool saith in his heart there is no God" Do you get this? If you say the word — then you — in a sense — are saying He exists.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            No it does not. I can also say Zeus, Thor and Quetzalcoatl. That does not mean they exist either.

          • DWoodPC

            oh well… that is the argument of the ancients. they didn't know you Jeff!

          • Joe Anzilotti

            I can only imagine how history would have been different if they knew Jeff!

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Dodo but can you say Guacamole?

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Humpty, I can not only say it but also make a delicious side dish of it.

          • Despeville

            Stay with that then and do not dumb down internet as it is dumbed down already by folks like you.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Nope you don't hate gods. They in fact do not exist. You hate God. Let's get that out there in the open–unlike our DOJ and Eric Holder.

          • DWoodPC

            ridiculous
            Do you know St. Anselm? Joe… He said only a fool saith in this heart there is no God. Now once you use the Word…. you have stated a belief in The Existence. So that should be a clue to the opportunity you have to wake up Jeff to the realities of Him. If you don't I just may and if I win he will become another Mormon. Not a bad idea actually. 10:4

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Macaroni, this may be a surprise to you but this was not said first by Anselm 900 plus years ago but by David 3000 plus years ago. Look it up in a real Word of God in Psalm 14 by the way that applies for you for David spoke about the God of the Bible which you deny with your Kolob resident and his plethora of spiritual offspring.

          • DWoodPC

            My died in the wool Baptist professor of Religious philosophy taught me that years ago … I will have to reprimand him for this… maybe I can get him to come on this blog and teach you a few Baptist things.

            You are wrong about my beliefs .. you have no idea. not a clue

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Sure I am so wrong and I am having no clue so much that none of you Mormons can actually address facts quoted from your primary sources.

          • DWoodPC

            wait just a moment

          • DWoodPC

            http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/jbms

            chew on that for a minute DV

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Listen I am not interested in your links. If you cannot express it in your own thinking and own words you do not have it. Pure and simple.

          • DWoodPC

            LOL… if you want to see any real scholarship it will have to be linked … I am not a biblical scholar though I delve into it to the extent I must. That link is one of the best examples I could give … because I doubt if you would ever look beyond your horse-blinders to examine the true scholarship in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on the topic of this work.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            'I am not a biblical scholar"

            I assure you that this did not make any news…

          • Joe Anzilotti

            "I delve into it to the extent I must." Whatever it takes to get that temple recommend certificate. That is great wouldbephd.

          • DWoodPC

            for DV, from the link:
            The Early Christian Prayer Circle
            Hugh W. Nibley:
            The nature of the early Christian prayer circle may be described by letting the oldest documents speak for themselves, beginning with the latest and moving backwards to the earliest. The rite was depicted for the last time in a document read to the assembled churchmen of the Second Council of Nicaea in AD 787 and condemned by them to the flames. Their objection was to parts of the text that proclaimed the gnostic doctrine of the total immateriality of Christ; on the subject of the prayer circle, which was strange to them, they preserved a discreet silence (see sidebar on facing page).1 Actually that part of it was an excerpt taken from a much older writing, the Acts of John, being the earliest apocryphal Christian Acta, dating at least to the early third century.

            In reading this and other accounts of the prayer circles, we seem to enter, as Max Pulver expressed it, into "a strange space, a strange world—unlike ours—a world above the world that opens before us when we enter into the round dance of the disciples, led by Christ." 2 The passage from the Acts of John reads as follows, after a notice on the extreme secrecy in which these things were guarded:

            Before he was seized by wicked men and by the wicked serpent of the Jewish authorities (lawgivers, nomothetoumenoi), he called us all together and said: "Before I am given over to those men, let us sing a hymn (of praise) to the Father and so go forth ready to face whatever lies ahead." Then he commanded us to form a circle, taking hold of each other's hand; And he himself taking up a position in the middle uttered the Amen (formula) and "pay attention to me (epakouete mou—follow my instructions)." Then he began a hymn, saying,

            "Praise (glory, doxa) to thee, Father," and we standing in the circle, followed him with the Amen.

            "Glory to thee Logos, glory to thee grace (charis, love). Amen.

            Glory to thee spirit, glory to thee Holy One; praise to thy glory. Amen (or be praised [doxasou] with glory. Amen).

            We praise thee Father; we thank thee Light in which there is no darkness. Amen.

            …. etc

            Augustine in his 237th Epistle quotes a slightly different version, calling it "a hymn . . . commonly found in the apocryphal writings," which he gets from the Priscillians, who believed it to be "the hymn of the Lord which he recited in secret to his disciples, the holy apostles, according as is written in the Gospel: After he recited a hymn, he ascended the mountain" (see Matthew 26:30; Mark 14:26). Its absence from the New Testament, which was Augustine's argument for rejecting it as spurious, was explained by the sectaries by quoting Tobit 12:7: "The ordinances of the King it is well to conceal, though it is praiseworthy to reveal the works of God." Conventional Christianity, following Augustine, has always denied that there was any significant teaching of Christ not included in the New Testament, for to admit such would be to admit serious gaps in their own knowledge. Yet Augustine labors to show line by line that the hymn is not heretical (as the Bishops of Nicaea found it 350 years later) but that each statement can be duplicated somewhere in the scriptures.4 The further back we go the more prominent becomes the rite in the church. to be continued

          • DWoodPC

            H Nibley continued:
            The actual performance of such a rite is described in a very old text attributed to Clement of Rome and preserved in a seventh-century Syriac translation entitled "The Testament of Our Lord Jesus Christ as delivered orally by him to us the apostles after his resurrection following his death." 5 In celebrating the sacrificial death of the Lord (Pulver calls his study "The Round Dance and the Crucifixion"), the bishop would make the sacrifice, the veil of the gate being drawn ………
            A sort of antiphonal follows with the people in the ring responding to the words of the bishop. Then the bishop begins the prayer proper, the people repeating these same things, praying. He thanks God for the plan of salvation, by which "thou hast fulfilled thy purposes by preparing a holy people, hast stretched forth thy hands in suffering, that they who have faith in thee might be freed from such suffering and from the corruption of death." 7……………….
            The old Christian prayer circle does not pretend, as the Orientals do, to embrace the whole universe and to sum up all knowledge; it is merely a timid knocking at the door in the hopes of being let into what goes on in the real world. Capra completely ignores the Near Eastern and old European schemes and patterns in his survey, and they are quite as rich and ingenious and probably more ancient than their Far Eastern derivatives. The Jewish and Christian systems are late and confused as we get them; they wander in an apocalyptic mist that cannot distinguish between revelation and speculation, but the dominant idea is that there is more, much more, going on than we have yet dreamed of, but that it is all on the other side of the door. The Oriental shuts his eyes in mystic resignation and with infinite humility makes sure that we are aware of his quiet omniscience. He knows all there is to know, and that is the message………..
            It is Joseph Smith's prayer circle that puts it all together. Not only did he produce an awesome mass of purportedly ancient writings of perfect inner consistency, but at every point where his contribution is tested—and since he affects to give us concrete historical material as well as theology and cosmology it can be tested at countless points—it is found to agree with other ancient records, most of which are now coming to light for the first time. The prayer circle is one example of that; we may not discuss his version too freely, but we have seen enough of the early Christian prayer circle to justify some important conclusions: 1. It always appears as a solemn ordinance. 2. It always takes place in a special setting—the temple………
            Notes to "The Early Christian Prayer Circle"
            1. Johannes D. Mansi, Sacrorum Conciliorum Nova et Amplissima Collectio (Graz: Akademischer Verlag, 1960), 13:169–75. The minutes of the meeting are instructive, beginning with col. 172 (see sidebar on p. 65). Conventional Christianity views the ancient prayer circle as a sort of gnostic aberration. L. Gougaud, "Danse," in Dictionnaire d'archéologie chrétienne et de liturgie (hereafter DACL), ed. Fernand Cabrol and Henri Leclercq (Paris: Letouzey et Ané, 1907), 4:248–58. It is never mentioned again in orthodox sources. See Henri Leclercq, "Agape," in DACL 1:787–92.
            2. Max Pulver, "Jesus' Round Dance and Crucifixion according to the Acts of John," in The Mysteries, ed. Joseph Campbell (New York: Pantheon, 1955), 169.
            3. Texts of this part of the Acts of John, taken from a number of sources, may be found in Mansi, Sacrorum Conciliorum Acta; Leclercq, "Agape," 787–92; Montague R. James, The Apocryphal New Testament (hereafter ANT) (Oxford: Clarendon, 1975), 253–70; Edgar Hennecke, New Testament Apocrypha, ed. Wilhelm Schneemelcher and Robert McL. Wilson (hereafter NTA) (Philadelphia: Westminster, 1963–65), 2:227–32.
            4. Augustine, Epistolae (Letters) 237, in Patrologiae Latinae (hereafter PL) 33:1034–38; quoted partially by Leclercq, "Agape," 786, and NTA 2:227–28 n. 5.
            5. Ignatius Ephraem II Rahmani, ed., Testamentum Domini Nostri Jesu Christi (Mainz: Kirchheim, 1899). The age of the work is discussed on pp. ix–xiv.
            6. Rahmani, Testamentum Domini Nostri, 36–37.
            7. Rahmani, Testamentum Domini Nostri, 38, 40–42.
            8. Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechesis XX, Mystagogica II, de Baptismi Caeremoniis (Catechetical Lecture on the Rites of Baptism), in Patrologiae Graecae (hereafter PG) 33:1081; also in Hugh Nibley,

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            I said your words… We have already serial numb nut plagiarizer Dodo.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            You are mesmerizing wouldbephd!

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Is she not a great copier and paster Joe? Just look at those tremendous skills. I think her and Dodo will get along just fine. What say you?

          • Joe Anzilotti

            They seem to get along quite well already. I will try to watch it blossom.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            True, you are only interested in your own links, Humpty.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Nope, Dodo, I am interesting in intelligent arguments well formulated and supported when needed. You are astonishingly lacking in that and can only copy and paste and usual dumb stuff just like your fellow "scientist" Deadwood.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Humpty, you are only interested in comments that reinforce your delusions. Anything else you dlsimiss out of hand.

          • Despeville

            You have nothing to offer dodo and you cannot even learn to ask harder questions of provide tougher arguments. You are a dumb bore.

          • DWoodPC

            stew in your own inconsistencies, see if I care

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            A singular god is part and parcel of multiple gods. None of them exist.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville
          • DWoodPC

            Your youtube offering is typical of your win-lose strategy that is rampant on this blog

          • DWoodPC

            Only a fool saith in his heart there is no God… ask VesperDille what it means

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            No ask your astronaut "god" deadwood

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            It means that a religious person could not envision any other options.

          • DWoodPC

            Then why do you establish His existence in your mind by talking about Him.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            I discuss the topic at hand. Discussing something does not make it real. If it did, the Earth would be surrounded by space aliens and their spaceships.

          • DWoodPC

            See Joe, DV — other Christians like sunshine on subjects just like Our Father

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            That is not getting anything accurate out in the open. It is you expressing more inane views.

          • DWoodPC

            I think Jeff is "laying low" as they say in the Brer Rabbit tales. He will not come out in the atmosphere of this blog — oh no — I know I wouldn't if I were a novice to Christianity. I would certainly question it as a matter of fact if the missionaries who showed up to teach me were the likes of DV and Dion… and for that matter … you, joker Joe Anzilotti… where is Vladimir when we need him?

          • Joe Anzilotti

            "Brer Rabbit tales"? Is that something most scientists are well versed in Deadwood?

          • dwoodpc

            parents of five-year-olds are , JA

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Vladimir is currently downloading in his REM latest revelation from your space "god" from Kolob. Do not disturb him.

          • dwoodpc

            and competently so

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Another tenet of Jeff's Despe:
            C. When in the corner calumniate.

          • dwoodphd

            kindergarten still in session here

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Let's get all the higher education credit we can get wouldbephd

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            It can only help if you can get all the higher education you can get.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            LOL, like the role of comics in the late 20th century?

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Going to start down that path of lying again, Humpty? Not a surprise.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Dodo you know you have asserted that…

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            I stated that some colleges use them, which is accurate for some do. The rest you lie about.

          • Despeville

            That plus you have asserted comic books as a valuable tool of education FOR YOURSELF which you then tried to justify by some odd course using odd comic book. You are a pathetic liar.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Very true

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Humpty, you know nothing about truth.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Dodo there is no ultimate truth in your schizophrenia of a worldview. All you got and all you van hope is a set of assertions.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            The Christian worldview offers no ultimate truth. You have no foundation to claim it does.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Surely my foundation is at least aspiring to be external and objective while yours resulting from overgrown germs… But you will fail to grasp that point Dodo.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            What you hope it aspires to is meaningless. It does not offer an ultimate truth.

          • Despeville

            Yawn dodo

          • dwoodphd

            Jeff you are okay
            Our Father who art in heaven is infinite… so are His creations/works and so are words for that matter. He appreciates a seeker and you are obviously that … I really think that deep in you cold heart there is a tiny amber waiting to be fanned into a flame for receiving the Holy Spirit if it is not already being done. All in good time. I do enjoy your comments, but really sometimes they are just enigmatic. but I hasten to add I think that is because you are trying to understand His infinite works all at once. He will reveal things to you periodically, more often, once you soften up a bit. : ) Read Moroni 10:4 in the book of Mormon, just for the heck of it.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            What a bunch of fake and smelly hogwash…

          • dwoodphd

            Hi DV. Have a good Sabbath?

            I look forward with great anticipation to the things all of God's children, sons and daughters, will report, wherever they come from

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            'Hi DV. Have a good Sabbath? "

            No I don't anymore, I don't listen to Black Sabbath anymore. Do you?

          • DWoodPC

            Not at all what I meant… but par for your course DV

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            I actually wen off that course by the Grace of God (do not confuse Him with your anthropomorphic Kolob dweller).

          • DWoodPC

            I do not. All I know about them is the name and it is a rock band. I am a book worm. grew up that way and still am and very particular about music. If I ever heard them on the radio I couldn't tell you … I am a founder for ThePianoGuys.com… my kind of music. you should look it up… 10:4

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            I listen to all kinds of music and especially to Classics and Jazz and I do know Piano Guys. I loved The Cello Song

          • DWoodPC

            You just got your first thumbs up from me DV. I love their "less miserables" and everything else they do

            They perform with America's Choir (and in choirs of those environs) … you know which one and where I mean

          • dwoodpc

            then you love Mormons… that is news

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            If you truly love books then get this one:

            "Letters To A Mormon Elder" available here: http://www.aomin.org/catalog/product_info.php?pro

          • DWoodPC

            Why do I know the book you recommend is anti-Mormon? I could not pick it up DV … first, I don't want to hear it. I've heard enough of the anti-. I have heard it over and over. Such literature leaves me cold. My experience in the Mormon Church is nothing like what is depicted in these. Did you know that I am not expected to believe everything I hear or read, but only those things the Holy Spirit testifies to me is true, the sacred purpose of the Comforter, DV? Be real!

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            You are deluded and leaving in ignorance. The book is highly scholarly one and if you are of truth it can only make you stronger in your faith… Of course that is not the case and you know it deep down in your deluded mind and that is why you will not read.

            I read and I watch and listen atheist thinkers (do not confuse them with morons posting here) frequently. I am not afraid of doing that and in fact I look forward to hear real atheistic arguments I have never heard before which becoming increasingly hard to do given progressing shallowness of society. Why is that deadwood? Because the truth will defend it self and is not depended on bosom burning or vertigo or anything else you hide behind in your irrational childish indoctrination.

          • DWoodPC

            That's why you won't hear responses from us to match the many expletives hurled at us. We are taught to "teach by the Holy Spirit and if we do not have the Holy Spirit, we do not teach"

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Sure, that is a same bogus assertion every cult makes under the sun. I heard that from Jehovah Witnesses, I heard that from Roman Catholics, I heard that from Unitarians, I heard that from Christadelphians etc. etc. etc and world wide.
            All of them just like you Mormons will not go to their sources and will ignore quotes from their sources and juxtaposition of them with the actual Word of God i.e. The Bible. Your "spirit" is a spirit alright but it ain't The Holy Spirit to be sure. This is about your "spirit":

            See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

            (Colossians 2:8 ESV)

          • dwoodpc

            rotten trees cannot bear good fruit… you know the scripture… look up the exact words in your greek text… you will probably reinterpret to mean the very opposite

            you depend on the philosophies of men to interpret the works of an infinite God… you are worst then any name you have called me, and I am a Child of God, you nuckle-head

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Bogus, ambiguous, vain, inane baseless assertion. Your "god" is a conjuration of fallen men and does not exist. Repent and believe upon true Christ, true One Triune God and His Gospel and His word.
            As such, as a Mormon you are a child of satan and a father of lies.

          • DWoodPC

            "From the rain under gutter. Sorry…" said DV

            Despe: This proves my point. Now did you come to this conclusion in a Christ like manner? This is such an insult to my religion! Do you really think I will convert based upon this kind of "persuasion" I hesitate to say it is evil… I think you have never been around women, is the excuse I made up for you. They don't like these kinds of insults. Well, I have three brothers, i was blessed also with six sisters! And Mother always said, with a sad stern face, "Sticks and stones can break your bones, but words can never hurt you" where insults were heard and feelings were hurt. You can imagine the chaos of her and Dad's household, especially when Dad wasn't there.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            I did not even know you were a woman so you gender assertion is completely besides the point just like the rest of your ambidextrous and inane opinions.
            Do you really think that I can convert you? :) You are dead wrong deadwood.
            If you will not come to true Christ and true Gospel it is because it was not given to you and if you do it will be because there was a mercy of God over you. Either one of those cannot be stopped or changed by any man or woman.

          • dwoodpc

            Despeville: You assert the view of an atheist point of view, from your basic studies, upon the head of an honorable and worthy child of God, and your nefarious point of view that if one is not Chosen by God, one has no right to enter into the Kingdom. Actually, I was already chosen, it was "given to" me when I was a spirit child in His presence when I chose to come here to Earth, He sent me in order that I night show Him of my ability to learn from the Comforter, to make the choice to follow the Savior's teachings, to come back to Him by MY CHOICE. He doesn't want satanic criminals as you point out he does. He wants people who promote His will, not those who follow satan!!! Well, you sir are blasphemous, blinded by philosophies of men, including atheists. Your teachers point out …. I have heard them … look, even atheists say this, this, this… let's take Hitler up to Heaven etc etc … you think up an instance, you know it better than I do… you know how to copy/paste… copy/paste that one … it is your mantra. Surprise!!! I have sat in your classes and heard experts many times expound the philosophy you follow. It is nothing new to me, as you have called me name after name, an idiot in so many words, you and your kind. You have shown me whose camp you inhabit on the Earth, and it is not the Lord's. It's your choice in your measely small mine that The Great Creator Created, not God's choice. He actually sent you here to make the choice, to demonstrate your faithfulness, otherwise Christ's atonement would be null and void. You seem to align with the latter. You think I should acknowledge that my God created me for the pleasure of watching me burn in Hell as He chooses the unfatithful "it's so freeeeeeing" persons who demean His words of wisdom. I will continue to pray for your redemption.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Just for the record there wouldbephd, Moroni has nothing to do with God's Word. Actually, however, Jeff does get his data from periodicals–but you can see what good that has done.
            BTW wouldbephd, do you ever read the Bible? I mean only the OT and NT.
            As I wrote earlier for our beloved friend Jeff (up above):
            "Right Jeff! You are dreaming. And you know how we know that for certain? By this simple fact: you are not willing to die for your, so called, "accurate" conclusion."
            This, of course, as you know intuitively in your "burning bosom" also applies to the Mormon stuff.
            If you have any questions ask a true believer in Christ.
            Otherwise as Despe has pointed out, correctly, it is all a bunch of "fake and smelly hogwash."

          • DWoodPC

            I was raised on the Good Word of God, Joe. Actually Catholic, with Catechism EVERYDAY, during first hour at school. No it was not a Catholic school, it was a community of ONLY Catholics. I was steeped in it. I full well know that "the burning of the Bosom" is a nick name for the feeling of the presence of the Holy Spirit. NO worries. Don't tell me you don't believe in Holy Ghost. I have known about Him as long as I can remember and I always felt His presence when I was close to my Mom, bless her sweet heart. I hope you have that same experience. I have also studied Philosophy of Religion with a dyed in the wool Baptist professor in a secular university in Florida. I have also studied the Reformed Church is my investigations of what is the closest religion that I can accept as the True Church on the Earth. I tire of people who diminish this process. Et tu, Brute?'

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            From the rain under gutter. Sorry…

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Your point wormwood being? Quit attempting to confuse the issue.

          • DWoodPC

            Thanks to KBshark, I have a new comment process, so I changed my PhD to PC to indicate my actual field of study in which I earned my Ph. D. can you guess what it is? You will no doubt love it.

            Also note that I think Jeff's dreaming is right on… dream on Jeff … and remember, "sometimes on the way to a dream you get lost and find a better one." Real thinkers are approved by the Father, you will find his truths and revel in them while on your stated mission. The discouragers are those who follow the adversary who eggs them on to be so cruel. Just remember who you are: You are a child of God and He knows us personally. You don't need the approval of airheads to know Him. Promise.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            This sounds like a bank commercial wouldbephd. Do you work for FW?

          • DWoodPC

            I saw it at walmart Joe
            What is FW?

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Funky Weasels

          • DWoodPC

            I did at one time, BIG MISTAKE

          • Joe Anzilotti

            BTW wouldbephd is it ok for Mormons to be on this site, with all this exposure to avant garde "thinkers" like Jeff?

          • DWoodPC

            Jeff is a scientist. So am I. I usually encounter all kinds of ideas that may conflict with my faith in my work environment. My greatest conflict would be with non-Christians and with people who do not like Americans' politics (but they like the American money), the various eastern and middle eastern religions, etc, you get the point. That is just about everyone, but my faith teaches coexistence. We all are children of God. Co-existing comes with the territory where I work.

            But I do like the sign that one of my FB friends uses for his picture: It says "You can't COEXIST with people who want to kill you." I think that is quite powerful, truthful and thought-provoking.

            So the answer to your question is yes, its OK to be on site with Catholics and their friends. The company is mild compared to the company at work.

            Also, I think Jeff is a thinker, not "thinker". I think he is a seeker, and as I told him, the Lord loves a seeker. I don't know where it is in scripture. Maybe you can tell me if you do exegesis. Are you Baptist? Why do you "bother" with Jeff?

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            "Jeff is a scientist. So am I. "

            LOL :) No, you are both mad scientists hahahahahaa

          • Joe Anzilotti

            WOW, now we have to deal with 2 "scientists"!!! What a turn of events.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Just think about all this tremendous knowledge and high end exchanges we will be able to observe now… WOW.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            I am so glad that now instead of 1 scientist, we have 2 scientists to explain the Bible to us, and… as a bonus one of them can also tell us all about the Book of Doorman. What else can we ask for?

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Nothing Joe. This is the absolute nirvana. We will hear how overgrown germs took over the world with the blessing of spiritually and continually copulating Kolob "god". This is indeed a pearl of wisdom of a great price…

          • DWoodPC

            So Jeff is just needing some intro to a different peiodical… why don't you send him one?
            DP doesn't bother me with his triteness. Heavenly Father will take care of him for being so mean. … or I should say Our Father who art in heaven! 10:4

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            You mean your father in the specific part of heaven like the planet Kolob?
            Jeff needs "Logic for Dummies" and not periodical,

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Your points are absurd and your beliefs are idiotic.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Preach Dodo preach!

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            I have always known the idea of a god is absurd. It is not a search for god I am on. It is to help others with their god delusion.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Yes Jeff you are helping us a lot with free entertainment and hard laughing at times.
            See if it would not be for Dawkins you would not even know how to mumble this out.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Humpty, you are too far gone in your god delusion for there to be any help.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Dodo you need to step out sometimes out of your neuro-linguistic programming from Dawkins jerk and his wanna be crowd of clueless sycophants and into the brave new world of thinking…

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            The brave new world of thinking is science, not the absurdies of religion, Humpty.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Dodo your simpleton's mind and true science are on the opposite sides of the spectrum.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            It is science and religion that are opposites. You embrace the delusion of religion. You will never grasp reality.

          • Despeville

            That kind of ignorant statement can be only uttered by under-educated moron like you who is so oblivious to the immeasurable contributions to science made by Christians and scientists who believed otherwise not to mention that you cannot even account for science and its laws in your myopic, schizophrenic and unattainable schizophrenia of atheism. You are double stupid dodo.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            I read the book of Mormon in High School. Just like the bible, or any religious text, it is full of absurdities.

          • DWoodPC

            Did you absorb ONE scripture FIRST: Moroni 10: 4

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            No but he surely absorbs macaroni with a good sauce too.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Oh, Oh, here we go with that Moroni thing again.

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            I read it. There was nothing to absorb.

          • DWoodPC

            do you like dr, suess children's books Jeff?

          • DWoodPC

            No, They are not. accurate, because in the scheme of things, It we came from apes they would have disappeared long ago, but they are still here.

            It is snake-oil stuff in the highest form. Don't be misled. Read this book: It is CERTIFIABLY LOGICAL, just like you like, Jeff !

            The Darwin Myth: The Life and Lies of Charles Darwin by Benjamin Wiker

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            Nonsense. There is nothing about evolution that states this idea. As new groups emerge, the older, existing group remains.

          • DWoodPC

            Jeff: There are some logical points of view different from yours that evolve different outcomes than ones you know. One thing I learned as a graduate student under the tutelage of several renowned physicists is that no matter how thorough you cover your subject there will be questions asked of you by those teachers that will take you back to square one. It is the nature of science, hard to accept but true. It seems to me that persons who study nature, thus, are vastly more humble that those who teach out of a book. After all, what is nature but the Almighty's work.

          • DWoodPC

            READ IT then tell me it is nonsense

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            ' CERTIFIABLY LOGICAL, just like you like, Jeff ! "

            LOL I was about to go to bed but this is getting to funny. Scientists continue please :)

          • DWoodPC

            DV: I didn't realize that you wrote this last night … I was exhausted… I hope you did not stay up all this time to listen in to a couple of science die hards! I feel so guilty. You poor darlin'

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            "You poor darlin'"

            Now don't get carry away…

          • DWoodPC

            I say that to all the 5-year-olds : )

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            That is even more troubling and revealing…

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Moroni 10:4

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            You mean 10 Morons on 4 normal?

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Let me google it! : )

          • DWoodPC

            google it at lds.org …. i will get it for you … when you shall receive these thing meaning "the scriptures"

            Moroni 10:4
            4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would aask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Jeff is certifiable alright deadwood. Wait until your relationship blossoms.

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Indeed, who needs comedy Chanel?

          • DWoodPC

            Why don't you just go and read Spurgeon if you want to be in complete bliss… no accountability, no consequences, freeeeeedom from issues completely… to your triteness, etc. That is a rather nice thought, it IS more like the Disney Chanel. I do like Charles S., he must be a wonderful priesthood now that he is with the Lord. I have no doubt that he is and is helping the Lord to prepare our place, including all the Mormon Christians that I know are like precious to the Lord and are worthy as well as for yourself.

          • DWoodPC

            that is … "priesthood holder"

          • DWoodPC

            Jeff: not all scientists, maybe many would be a better word… are there stats on this question?

        • DWoodPC

          Jeff will be doing just that… God's creations are infinite Joe and some of us never tire of exploring… that is one thing for certain… and Jeff is on this site, probably to see what God is all about. So be good.

          • Joe Anzilotti

            Hey wormwood, do you always vote a thumbs up for yourself when you post? Have seen that before. Wouldn't be unique to you. Don't be afraid to admit it.

  • Thunderrcat

    Anyone who believes there are other life forms, whether intelligent or not within the known universe is in serious need of mental evaluation. Consider we have through modern science been able to study the universe to thousands of light years distance with absolutely no other planet with the physics of the earth capable of harboring life! Consider that the occurance of multicellur life on earth has shown to have occured almost at the beginning of life on earth. God spent millions of years developing a planet with the necessary physical charactreristics to habor life as we know it and created that life, it amazes me that anyone with a straight face actually defend a theory for which has no evidencce of accuracy has ever been brought forward and is being destroyed further with all modern scientific discoveries. Which of course does not destroy the existence of aliens per se, but you will have to learn to observe another dimension.

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      The first confirmed detection of an extrasolar planet came in 1992, a mere time of 20 years ago. We have no idea what these planets are actually like.

    • DWoodPC

      Thunderrcat: "accuracy" is your key word as I see it since we need better instruments … very costly… I think we should spend the money though "searching for intelligent life on earth" as one contributor offered .. I don't know about another dimension… sounds like science fiction at this point… Hollywood… better instruments will tell us for sure, but do we want to spend for all that? It is exciting to think about! So many of us were excited all the time about progress in space exploration. Seems to be just routine now.

  • Joe Anzilotti

    Distraction: finding an alien from some other rock in space. Another distraction: playing with Google. Yet another distraction: looking for the Ivory-billed Woodpecker. Another example: being antagonistic when you can't come up with any valid arguments in discussion of any particular topics (case in point: my friend Jeff) : )

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      Joe, science is not a distraction. It is how people determine how the world operates.

      • Joe Anzilotti

        Again Jeff: Note, I did not say that science is a distraction. Knock it off already with making stuff up. Sometimes it appears that that is all you do.

        • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

          You constantly rail against science and technology. I do not have to make anything up. You provide all the comments yourself.

        • DWoodPC

          You do make up stuff Joe

          • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

            And there it is. Boom!

          • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

            Was that your cranium finally giving in Dodo?

          • dwoodpc

            Jeff is responding to my comment about joker Joe making up stuff

          • Joe Anzilotti

            You mean like the "Book of Mormon" Deadwood?

          • dwoodpc

            you are a stand-up comic … where DO you preach?

          • DWoodPC

            why didn't you answer Joe? touchy subject… sorry… but we are on zionica

    • DWoodPC

      You know Joe, science is every bit as complicated in a logical way, as religion is in a spiritual way. You should show Christ's charity to Jeff. His quandary over science is every bit as knotty as yours is over religion. The difference is Jeff seeks the theory of everything, so really he deserves a little latitude. I know you will begin to do the Christian thing where your friend Jeff is concerned, please.

      • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

        I really enjoy to listen to the cultist preaching about "Christian thing"… How about a sermon on the moroni? Jeff has plenty of latitude what he need is altitude.

        • dwoodpc

          Moroni 10:4 You know the book. :)

          • Despeville

            In my book it says not Moroni but MORONS. Here is a direct quote:

            "Although they claimed 45 to be wise, they became fools."
            "φασκοντες ειναι σοφοι εμωρανθησαν"
            ~ Romans 1:22

            "εμωρανθησαν" – "moraheno" – "morons" – "fools"

          • dwoodpc

            I don't see where Romans 1:22 has anything to do with Mormons and neither do you. Just because you say it does doesn't make it so. Whatever Despe, you have no proof and you know it. I studied with Gaffin and Beale and they would not go so far as you have done with your single piece of evidence. I will give you their contact information if you want to verify. I don't claim to be a biblical scholar as they are, so you can't take my word for it… besides, you wouldn't take my word for it, as I am lds. I hope you have a happy 4th and I haven't ruined it.

            p.s. how did you write your greek letters? :)

          • Despeville

            Thanks for telling me what I see or do not see but I can assure you that I did not yet sync mind mind to your nightly kolob download channel.

            Romans 1:22 DOES SPEAK ABOUT YOU and your fellow duped religious as it does about other cultists including atheists. In your case with your "god" who used to be a man and has a body of man it is PRECISELY on the target.

            For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

            (Romans 1:18-23 ESV)

            VERSUS:

            "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not ddwell in us."

            Doctrines and Covenants 130:22
            Official Mormon's site: http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/130

            Did you catch that??? Here it is again:

            "Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man "

            VERSUS:

            "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s"

            Therefore it only follows that you and all your cultists are in fact "εμωρανθησαν" – "moraheno" – "morons" – "fools"

        • DWoodPC

          you make up stuff too despe

  • Mexseiko

    There are many shallow Christians which faith and understanding are so thin that may cease to trust the Scripture when something they think is not talked about in the Bible appears.

    • dwoodphd

      RK points out "other sons of God" are mentioned in Genesis … also I recall there are His sheep of not of this fold… who are they?

  • Richard

    Stop spending millions on looking for intelligent life out there. Spend the money looking for intelligent life on earth. It may be just as hard to find!

    • http://rationalresponses.blogspot.com/ Jeff Dixon

      Based on the replies found on this site, it does seem difficult to find.

    • DWoodPC

      KEEP UP THE MANTRA RICHARD… WE ARE IN DEEP DEBT AND AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP!!!!!

  • Robert Koomans

    Why would finding out that there are other people in the Universe make us didbelieve God? – After all, from the very beginning of the Bible, it was mentioned that there were other sons of God"out there! – and besides, Genesis was talking about a world that was void (or made void by some cataclysm) , and was made (again) in a better manner than what had disappeared. The Laws God made for the NEW occupiers was linked to this , and had to be kept intact as best as possible so that the World could run properly with all due respect for life and feelings. Those Laws are everlasting, even though men would try to change them (and many have done so – which is why the earth is "cursed" for their sakes with strife mostly of their making, and God's Spirit Receding away, destabilizing the atoms He put together.)

    • dwoodphd

      RK: do you think the other sons of God are keeping a record of their people and their interaction with God? Will we allow them to "add" their experience about God and Jesus Christ to our libraries and/or condemn them for their artificialities since no one can "add" to the Holy Bible their experiences and be considered worthy Christians?

      • rkoomans

        First, we must understand that our Bible is compiled from a massive List of letters about following God. There are many times More letters thus not included into our Bible. Some of those letters contained deeper description of what God wanted, or what The Christ did or explained. The books and letters in our bible were considered to be the best suited for study, and so included into the compilation. It is true that we should not Add to words or letters to make outcomes Different from that written By God's servants, yet explanations can be based on scripture by revelation as it comes from God. Genesis first few lines suggests a PRE-DAWNING era of an Earth that was Void or voided by some cataclysm. That could explain those fossils of monsters in the earth being found. In further sentences is a mention that The "other" sons of God were watching ("out there") God's handiwork, and applauded the results. They know the Laws God gave to mankind via Adam, and later via Moses. Note that the Laws required as best for Mankind ae not made by Man, but written by God (or "YHVH" or "I AM"). If we refuse to follow THE HIGHEST LAWS, we obviously will never keep or obey the Lower laws of man, and keep changing them to suit our own wishes, lusts, deviations etc. That is why God gave us those rules, to help mankind live with each other in respect, and give due acknowledgement to God as our Creator. If we refuse to keep those laws as best as we can (and not "add" to those laws which Jesus (Y'shua) rebuked the Jews for doing) – then we can expect the Earth and ourselves to be "cursed" (2nd. Law) as a result of our own deviations, making mistake after error, bad decisions after bad. We shall "think that what is wrong is right, and what is right is wrong" unto the end. Here is the meaning of being "saved" – at times true followers were given warnings of a disaster, and instructions on how to avoid it: Noah's obedience saved him and family, Moses obedience saved many of his people, Jews believing in Y'shua obeyed the warning to "run to all the corners of the Earth, … hoping the day to move would never be on God's Sabbath" … and the descendants of those Jews who were saved are the Jews who exist today, even if they have forgotten it! – There will be more warnings and instructions to the faithful who Keep His Commandments, before the Final day when they are lifted away from this depraved Earth where deviates will roam free to molest. The END will come shortly after that, when they have killed each other off to only about a quarter of it's population. ( from new diseases (AIDS 2 and 3?) and war and famine and natural disasters). Governments today are offending God by wanting Homosexual Marriages, Murdering babies in utero, giving minimal aid to starving people while burying the rest of the crops. etc. etc. etc. You name it! – In all, a fairly good question "dwoodphd" But we don't need to keep tabs on each others private thoughts, as God Knows them already! – It is up to them to follow or not to be saved. Have faith in God more than faith in churches or pastors and priests, as they have deviated too far already from God's Word, and refuse to repent and change Back to what was Commanded.

  • DANIEL BARBOUR

    All of these comments aside, the N.T. says many will come performing great signs and wonders so powerful that IF IT WERE POSSIBLE (which it is not) would deceive the very Elect. My emphasis. All this talk leads me to think it is about to happen. The main point here, Satan is very, very convincing.

    • DWoodPC

      Daniel: Thanks. I completely agree … The True Believers know the difference and have guidance … the presence of one sends a chill up the spine and the other warms the heart… it is NOT possible for their presences to switch by any means .. so which direction to follow for good is a no brainer … what is the most difficult (and our Father does allow us to be tested) one must cultivate and protect one's vessel to keep the Holy Spirit within us. We pray to God the Father for safety in the name of Jesus, as He taught while He walked upon the Earth. Satan hates us to mention Jesus Christ because when we do it reminds him that he has no power over us, so it nips him in the bud and destroys his ability to displace the Holy Spirit.

  • DanMK

    If we did come into connact with OS aliens we could see what they know about God in Christ. I did like what Stephen Hawking said "If aliens visit us , the outcome would be much like as when Columbus landed in America , which didn't turn out well for the native Americans…" But for the world we already know the end of the story and it is the people of God in Christ who inherit the earth and HE has no competition.

  • Despeville

    They must for mockery and laughter are the involuntary self defense mechanism of an idiot who knows he is clueless apart of his neophyte declarations coming from 15 second Google sifting.

  • Joe Anzilotti

    For crying out loud Jeff, you should at least know how to spell your hero's name. Sheesh.

  • Joe Anzilotti

    Let's break this down–what "new information" would you like to talk about?

    • Joe Anzilotti

      "new information" Jeff? Something besides Chrome Google? We are waitiiiing. . .

    • dwoodpc

      But it was not just on the cross Christ suffered. In the Garden of Gethsemane He began the suffering that allowed Him to take the sins of the world upon Himself, or as Isaiah says, to bear our griefs and carry our sorrows (see Isaiah 53:4 ). Speaking of this suffering and pain…

      “Christ’s agony in the garden is unfathomable by the finite mind, both as to intensity and cause. The thought that He suffered through fear of death is untenable. Death to Him was preliminary to resurrection and triumphal return to the Father from whom He had come, and to a state of glory even beyond what He had before possessed; and, moreover, it was within His power to lay down His life voluntarily. He struggled and groaned under a burden such as no other being who has lived on earth might even conceive as possible. It was not physical pain, nor mental anguish alone, that caused Him to suffer such torture as to produce an extrusion of blood from every pore; but a spiritual agony of soul such as only God was capable of experiencing. No other man, however great his powers of physical or mental endurance, could have suffered so; for his human organism would have succumbed, and syncope would have produced unconsciousness and welcome oblivion. In that hour of anguish Christ met and overcame all the horrors that Satan, ‘the prince of this world’ could inflict. The frightful struggle incident to the temptations immediately following the Lord’s baptism was surpassed and overshadowed by this supreme contest with the powers of evil.

      “In some manner, actual and terribly real though to man incomprehensible, the Savior took upon Himself the burden of the sins of mankind from Adam to the end of the world. Modern revelation assists us to a partial understanding of the awful experience. In March 1830, the glorified Lord, Jesus Christ, thus spake: ‘For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent, but if they would not repent, they must suffer even as I, which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit: and would that I might not drink the bitter cup and shrink—nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.’” ( Jesus the Christ, pp. 613–14.)
      ~ Talmadge

      The Savior’s suffering was a vicarious act of one totally innocent assuming responsibility for myriads of guilty ones. Thus, Isaiah said, “He hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows” and “was wounded for our transgressions, [and] bruised for our iniquities” ( Isaiah 53:4–5 ).

      When Jesus stood before Pilate, the governor of Judea, “he was accused by the chief priests and elders” of many evil things, but “he answered nothing” in return ( Matthew 27:12 ). “Then said Pilate unto him, Hearest thou not how many things they witness against thee?” But Jesus held His peace and “answered him . . . never a word; insomuch that the governor marvelled greatly.” ( Matthew 27:13–14 .) In fulfillment of Isaiah’s prophecy, “as a sheep before her shearers is dumb,” so Jesus “openeth not his mouth” ( Isaiah 53:7 ).

      While it was yet early in the morning, the soldiers in charge of Jesus brought Him “from Caiaphas [the high priest] unto the hall of judgment” of Pilate’s residence ( John 18:28 ). Later, at the time of crucifixion, Jesus’ cross was placed between two evil men who were thieves (see John 19:18 ; Luke 23:32–33 ). After Jesus’ death on the cross, Joseph of Arimathea, a rich man, went to Pilate and begged for permission to bury Jesus. Joseph laid the body “in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock” ( Matthew 27:60 ). An examination of Matthew’s account shows that the remarkable detail with which Isaiah foretold the Savior’s arrest, trial, death, and burial was accurate."

      accessed 7/5/2012: http://institute.lds.org/manuals/old-testament-in

      I hope this alleviates you Joe. : )

      • http://youtu.be/HlD3Gaq4cN0 Despeville

        Deadwood,

        If you would just spent equal time thinking on your own that you spend finding, reading, copying and pasting this kind of utter rubbish…

        • DWoodPC

          Despe, I am not a member of the priesthood, but I will continue to pray for you.

        • DWoodPC

          Despe: I am not a priesthood holder, he is. Also, I think it is better than the Sturgeon piece you copy/pasted

  • Joe Anzilotti

    The only way my religious belief would be shaken would be in the finding of Mormon aliens, already inhabiting some far away planets with their many wives, and listening to the music from the Tabernacle Choir on their ipods. Would their Book of Mormon be in English? Or "reformed egyptian"? That is a pesky question.

  • DWoodPC

    I asked my "friend" who is a Presbyterian chaplin in the military a question once that really threw him for a loop: it is this:
    When will you begin to practice your religion? He looked at me like he hadn't a clue about what I meant. It is just that I don't see the external manifestation of a religious person around him and I feel like there is an icy cold breeze in the room when he is there. I believe it is the presence of satanic influences. That Joe is truely pesky.

    • Dionesius3

      I feel the same thing EVERY TIME you post something DWood, it must be the Holy Spirit confirming your a satanic, deluded, moron Mormon who is trying to sound so smart!!!

      But you come off as exactly what you are, a big joke.

      Go pray to the nonexistent heaven father god that you moron Mormons worship, surely he can give you something logical to respond back with, that is if he is not asleep, or away, or in the bathroom, or having sex with heavenly mother…

      • dwoodpc

        You must be the arbiter of it all Dionesius3 i Screwtape… Yes? This forum is just your game room. It is like you must have missed all those ducks when you went to the carnival and here is the replacement to salve your ego, which no doubt is huge. Your religion is but a game and really not in serious contention for your time as you rarely actually practice it, if at all, – not any indication here – as you are already in real "heaven" taking shots at good people who disagree with you.

        • Dionesius3

          Your really funny, did you make that one up yourself or did Dixon, or your husband help you come up with it???

          At any rate, you have already claimed that you have a phd in art history, and now you have a physics phd as well, hmmm, you must be an ugly chick if you had to send that much time in college to find a husband.

          As to "practicing" my religion, I don't practice girlie I am an adult, who knows the one true God, and who does not abide horse manure from CULT MEMBERS like moron Mormons, and junky Jehovah's Witnesses.

          So go back to your blind stupor in lala land where your non existent god requires your to have your magic underwear on all the time. By the way, do you have to keep the magic underwear on while having sex as well???
          I have always wondered.

    • Mary Wood

      ……..