'God of Liberty' Crucial to the American Revolution

Even though Americans celebrate Independence Day each year, it's sometimes easy to forget the depth of a word like "liberty."

Men fought and died so America could be free, but for them liberty was intertwined with the God of liberty.

It's a sad fact of history: Christians fleeing the Old World to practice their own religion often turned right around and persecuted fellow Americans from other denominations.

They wanted theirs to be the recognized state church, ruling over all others. But watching that persecution outraged future leaders like James Madison.

"As late as the early 1770s, you have Baptist preachers who are getting thrown in jail for illegal preaching in Virginia," Thomas Kidd, author of God of Liberty, said. "And James Madison as a young man watches this going on, and he thinks its despicable."

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bighoss

Among the ideological descendants of those hypocritical pilgrims are the Christian nationists among us who strive to preferentially implant their doctrinal biases onto the public square–the Roy Moores and David Bartons and by far the worst of all, the conniving charlatans of the "New Apostolic Reformation." Read about this scary crowd of would-be theocrats and their "apostles," including the pompous and disgusting leader of the movement, C.Peter Wagner here's a sample:

"Instead of escaping the earth (in the Rapture)* prior to the turmoil of the end times, they teach that believers will defeat evil by taking dominion, or control, over all sectors of society and government, resulting in mass conversions to their brand of Charismatic evangelicalism and a Christian utopia or "Kingdom" on earth."

More at: http://www.talk2action.org/story/2011/8/12/1713/0…
- Roger H Frost
  
  Please Child of God do not make statements unless you can back them up and since that was 11 generations ago I don't think you know very much. A wise man said once don't sit in any one's chair unless you are prepared to walk and live in their shoes. I learned that the hard way. Start now to learn as many accounts, including diaries of all the souls of that time.
  
  Jesus said; 'The truth will set you free', and only the truth. We have to live by faith and only the 'Absolute Truth.
  - bighoss
    
    Roger, you have somehow missed something. There is no disputing the FACT that early white settlers on these shores were often authoritarian zealots who compelled the citizenry to live and worship according to their standards and punished them when they did not conform. As explained in the link below:
    
    "Many religious groups (such as the Quakers and Puritans) formed the first 13 colonies on the basis of their religious beliefs. Although the plan was to escape persecution, there was actually some amount of persecution happening in the colonies. One example of this persecution would be with the Puritans. The Puritans wanted everyone to worship in the Puritan way. In order to ensure that Puritanism dominated the colonies, nonconformists were fined, banished, whipped, and even imprisoned for not conforming to the way of the Puritans. Eventually this persecution was ended and other religions began to appear. "
    http://www.uncp.edu/home/canada/work/allam/160717…
    
    From the Smithsonian Institution's web pages:
    
    "The problem is that this tidy narrative is an American myth. The real story of religion in America’s past is an often awkward, frequently embarrassing and occasionally bloody tale that most civics books and high-school texts either paper over or shunt to the side. And much of the recent conversation about America’s ideal of religious freedom has paid lip service to this comforting tableau.
    
    From the earliest arrival of Europeans on America’s shores, religion has often been a cudgel, used to discriminate, suppress and even kill the foreign, the “heretic” and the “unbeliever”—including the “heathen” natives already here. Moreover, while it is true that the vast majority of early-generation Americans were Christian, the pitched battles between various Protestant sects and, more explosively, between Protestants and Catholics, present an unavoidable contradiction to the widely held notion that America is a 'Christian nation.'"
    
    Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology…
    
    I can back up what I have posted with much more than that, but that should be a good start for you Roger. Eleven generations ago, there was a lot of religious bigotry and persecution of persons with dissenting views and it is well documented in our history. Can you say "Cotton Mather"? Can you say, "Salem Witch Trials"?
    - wesley
      
      you might want to make a distinction between the Pilgrims (or Separatists) and the Puritans most people try to lump them into the same group. the Pilgrims lived in peace with their native neighbors. Maryland was founded as a English Catholic colony under King Charles I. they allowed for religious toleration and were mostly forced out after Oliver Cromwell and the Puritans disposed Charles I and not granted the right to return until after Cromwell died and King Charles II began to rule England. the Catholics were again forces out of Maryland by William and Mary the Puritan monarchs after the "bloodless English revolution". the southern colonies disestablished the church allowing for true religious freedom before the northern colonies. the south at the founding was mainly two different groups of Anglicans; the official Anglicans who became the Episcopalians and the Methodists society which would become the Methodist Episcopal Church after Francis Asbury left and Methodists separated. as you can see bighoss is correct about the early religious bigotry.
    - bighoss
      
      Here is some more education for you ROGER, concerning the scheming weasels of dominionism:
      http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/dominionism…
Chris

In other words – yet another religious war.
Evermyrtle

Mark 12:2 Be not conformed to this world: but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect will of GOD.

It is not too late for you big boss? As long as you live on this earth it will not be too late," UNLESS YOU SIN ( BLASPHEME) AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST" for that there is no forgiveness, you can repent, and be accepted by our SAVIOR.. But, every one of us will come before JESUS CHRIST, we will be shown the truth, which you will know is the truth, but at that time it will be too late.
- bighoss
  
  Indeed, it is NOT too late for me. To assert that it is, as you have done, implies strongly that you consider me among the lost and doomed. How is it you have come to that conclusion? Would I improve my prospects for eternity if I embraced the unscriptural cultic notions promoted by the New Apostolic Reformation or volunteered as a campaign worker for the disgraced and deposed Judge Roy Moore? What, Evermyrtle can I do to redeem myself in your judgmental sight?
  - Evermyrtle
    
    You don't have to prove anything to me, I'm only a sinner, a repentant sinner, but still a sinner.
    
    By the way, Roy Moore was and Is I assume a repentant sinner just like you and me. He is, i would guess, despised by most liberals . Conservative Christians honor him for his courage and sincerity in serving GOD the best he could. Standing up for your principles is not a new thing, that is a very old and dying trait of past time Christians. If every Christian in the U S OF A had stood up for our Christian beliefs, we would never have been in the mess that we are in today. Making fun of people, the way they worship is childish, immature,cheap and I believe is unCHRISTlike. There are several who post on this site that nothing seems to please them more that tot poke fun (rip them apart) at other people's style of worship.
    
    At least when I say anything concerning you, I say it to you, not about you, and behind your back.and no I am not saying that you have said anything about me.
    
    There is several scriptures which tell us that we can tell a tree by the fruit it bares in relating to how a person serves GOD.
    - bighoss
      
      Evermyrtle, nothing that I have posted on this forum is behind anyone's back. It is all out there naked and open for anyone to read.
      
      I live in Alabama and closely followed the shenanigans of Roy Moore and his ultimate removal from office for his refusal to obey a legal court order. Moore ran for governor after losing his Supreme Court position and finished way down in the running. Alabamians, as conservative as they are, got tired of the little poseur and his defiant theocratic absurdities.
      
      Roy Moore then took off on an extended speaking tour around the country, complaining everywhere he went that back in Alabama he had not been permitted to "acknowledge God." By "acknowledge God", he was referring to his dead-of-night installation of a 2 1/2 ton stone block with the 10 Commandments on it, illegally placed in the middle of the state's Judicial Building in defiance of state and federal court decisions. The courts ordered it to be removed and when he defied that order, it was removed by federal marshals. Roy Moore is a clown and a poseur and an embarrassment to anyone who really cares about government, laws, and the Constitution.
Deep_Thinker

Are we talking about the true liberty our founders espoused? Or the "regulated liberty" that we have now thanks to neocons and liberals? The "regulated liberty" being the sacrifice of individual liberty for the "common good", "national defense", "society" etc..

I for one espouse the Christian liberty, which is inline with individual liberty. I hope others see the difference as they continually roll over and give up their liberties to these false idols.
DSM

Bighoss is yet another example of those pointing to the extreme fringe and implying it's the norm among Christians. Problem Hoss is that this strategy only works with those like you – Internet experts of Christianity that seek out previous injustices and only discuss them in the current context. Those of use that actually know what it means to be a Christian are not fooled. Groups that attempt to replace God and His church with their own attempted power grabs are roundly rebuked in the Bible.
Dennis

I guess most of you people read a different bible than me.You can not be part of this world and Christs.YOu can not serve two masters.Got news for ya.He is coming back to set up his kingdom on this earth.If you want to call it domionism so be it.For thats exactly what its going to be.His dominion.