Obama, Romney, and Rick Warren

Saddleback Church’s evangelical mega-pastor Rick Warren has announced that he’ll be holding another presidential forum, just as he famously did in 2008 with Barack Obama and John McCain. While nothing is confirmed yet, it is tentatively scheduled for the end of August and will supposedly work “to promote social civility so that people with major disagreements (can) talk without beating each other up.” However, neither President Obama nor Republican challenger Mitt Romney should be fooled, this is an exercise in conservative Christian power, a religious litmus test in all but name.

Pastor Rick Warren has an entirely undeserved reputation as a “moderate” evangelical Christian because has no trouble being courted by Democrats, or signing toothless global warming documents. In truth, the man who has sold countless “Purpose Driven Life” books is lock-step with the evangelical mainstream on almost all social and theological issues. He’s for banning same-sex marriage, doesn’t believe in evolution, and only spoke out against draconian anti-gay legislation in Uganda (he had ties to one of the bill’s supporters) after immense public pressure. The only real difference between Warren and many other figures within the realm of conservative Christianity is his genial self-help-book-writer tone. In short, this is not a man I’d trust to explore alone the serious moral and ethical questions inherent to the world’s more powerful job, because there’s only one moral and ethical standard he’s truly capable of understanding.

Around 20% of Americans fall outside the accepted boundaries of the Abrahamic traditions (Jews, Christians, and Muslims) entirely. If we’re talking just non-Christians, then the number is about 22%. Around 18% of American Christians belong to (generally more liberal) Mainline Protestant Churches. Catholics claim 24% of the population. Evangelical Christians make up around 26% of religious adherents in the United States, the largest faith grouping in America, but does their size justify the prominence of place they seem to now inhabit in national politics? The margins are small enough that it seems like folly to think that the moral concerns of an evangelical pastor will line up with a the concerns of all the other groups. It’s more a testament to the organizing power of conservative protestants, than a true reflection of their demographic weight or cultural influence.

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tod

mitt is a NEW WORLD ORDER PUPPET that's a morrmon and morrmons have a Long History of Hating Our Country and it's Laws the same as muslims,plus they are a Antichrist cult not a religion the same as muslims !!! Dr.Ron Paul 2012 the Only Proven Honest for Well Over 30 years,and the Only Natural Born citizen Christian Patriot running for President,PERIOD !!! Quit listening to the Media and the Media Parrots the keep repeating the same Media crap over and over to you on these sites !!! The Media is Our Number One Enemy !!!
- KittyKat
  
  Tod,
  I do agree with you that the media is our number one enemy. Obama has done his level best to bring down our economy, all with the help of the MSM. I will vote ABO (Romney), simply because voting for Dr. Paul would be a vote FOR Obama. Dr. Paul should have been the Rep candidate, yes, but he's not.
  
  Obama had no experience running ANYTHING and should never have been elected. His actions speak much louder than his words, he is out to destroy us and will succeed if we don't defeat him in November.
  
  As for Rick Warren, I do not trust him at all any more. He's now promoting a Muslimized Christianity (Chrislam) – that will be neither – by suggesting that churches remove their crosses so as not to 'offend' other religions..
  
  No thanks. I'll vote ABO : Romney
- DWoodPC
  
  Dear Tod: I think you are kidding: Dr. Ron Paul is a gynecologist. He wants open borders. I like his energy, but hardly any of his hard-line suggestions. When the right man gets the presidency (Mitt) I hope he takes Ron on in his cabinet, to fight the forces of evil that promote abortions in this country, and real health care for Americans, in defiance of the "trinity" of Obama/Pelosi/Reid. Ron would be great, don't you know! That is Ron's calling and I hope he wants it and accepts it. The country needs him to focus on the issues of his discipline. Mitt Romney has the resume for jobs and the economy, see mittromney.com . You don't want me to post my list for Mitt here again, do you?
  
  BTW, Rick Warren is an opportunist and does not teach by the Spirit of the Lord. He is duping people by the thousands.
- Vladimir
  
  Hey tod, you can't get anything right. You are wrong on every point, up to and including the spelling of Mormon.
  
  Actually your comment on the Media was pretty good, but still not accurate.
- Paul Molyneux
  
  So sorry that you know not of what you speak.
- http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1229573242 Nina Flora
  
  and you think a muslim is better and one who is leading us toward a new Germany as fast as is humanly possible.. ron paul is a good man but sir he cannot get elected this time im afraid..it will only split and give us the current president for 4 more years. and our faith will be tried and tried much further..
- E.
  
  Mormons believe the Constitution is divinly inspired and one of the Articles of Faith says "We believe in obeying the law of the land". Mormons are the most patriotic people I know. Don't speak about things of which you obviously know very little.
  - Bighoss
    
    The notion that the Constitution is divinely inspired is both heretical and blasphemous, just one of many Mormon beliefs that are heretical and blasphemous.
Evermyrtel

I know little about Rick Warren but I believe he is luke warm to real issues, that he is willing to compromise GOD'S WORD. There is one thing that I am positive about, he cannot get around GOD, because HE knows everyone of us inside and out. We cannot fool HIM. HE knows exactly why we do and say, every move of out lives and if Rick Warren is
false, HE knows it. We should be careful who we put our trust in. We need to know the word so that we cannot be fooled. If someone says anything that we are doubtful about, search the scriptures and discuss the matter with someone who can tell you what you need to know.
- http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1229573242 Nina Flora
  
  yes adnd we will be judged according to the real heart motive and even preachers will stand before God and answer…whether they are for God or for self exaultation..The Bible is the only tried and tested item..man can change it to suit themselves but as i said time will come……….
msjallen

I remember too clearly the last forum Rick Warren had with -0 and McCain that was a total disaster and I hope the GOP and Romney does not take part in his forum. One would think by now that if Warren was a Bible believing person he would not support -0 in any way. Even though I am not a fan of Romneys I will vote for him against -0. I pray that more people will get back to honoring God first in their lives so we can elect someone who will lead this country according to God's principles found in His Word. I doubt that I will see this in my lifetime or even my grandchildren's.
I Tim 2:1-2 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.
- http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1229573242 Nina Flora
  
  amen
- Sandy
  
  I hope Romney doesn't do it, I think it will be a trap for him because of his beliefs and we already know Obama will lie about what he believes. It is possible we are under God's judgement already and if we don't return to being a Godly nation then the judgements will continue. We have been led down the wrong path and now we have to pay the consequences. God help us.
rocketman

Pastor Warren I believe loves God, but only God knows our hearts. I totally disagree with what I think I remember about his stance on 'muslim' and being any part of the Abrahamic covenant. 'islam' is a fraud and to say other wise is just plain PC-ness, ignorance or both. If and when I feel the need to start a new religion, I think I will use as much as I know people will believe from the ones already existing. My 'god' will be named something catchy , some name already in use were people will say coo. Maybe even a title of an event yeah that's it ' The Second Coming' how does that sound? people of heard of that before. So my god ' The Second Coming' will now dismiss those previous religions as not the true one, close but no cigar. I will use many of the same characters to display my new god, but will condemn the others for falling short. I will tweak the stories and threaten all who believe and all who don't . For threats worked really well for the last so called Abahamic religion. Okay enough is enough. This little bull crap story is just what 'muhammad did, and for Rick Warren to give credence to this fraud is pure nonsense. The truth given to people backed up by evidence, history, and proofs, is the best cure of those trapped by 'islam'.
DWoodPC

The No Religious Test Clause of the United States Constitution is found in Article VI, paragraph 3, and states that:
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.
Wordman

Old Rick may not be as bad as we thought, but he does have an unfortunate habit of selling out to Christianity's enemies. Obama played him like a fiddle last time around. Let's hope and pray that he's learned something. We don't need another another clueless, guttless evangelical leader in the mix.
- Jojo
  
  He's a social justice kind of pastor, we don't need pastors like him helping progressives/socialists lead the sheep to the slaughter under the guise of religion. He's not to be trusted.
David

I do long for those gentler days when we had both a Ronald Reagan and a Billy Graham steer the ship of state with His guidance.
- http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1229573242 Nina Flora
  
  yep
- Lenora
  
  Right on! So very true!
- Sandy
  
  Me to David.
Paul Molyneux

I would truly like to know the author's intent when he conceived and pubished this article. There is nothing in it except for the author's opinion disguised as a news article. Of course, the author's name is not readily noticeable on the piece either.
Unashamed Christian Moralist

Funny. Most conservative Christians find Warren repulsive and tainted with deceptive heresies. But what can we expect from leftists who claim the Christian faith? They see anyone not of the LEFT as 'dangerous'. How petty.
- http://www.facebook.com/michael.hilton.773 Michael Hilton
  
  I'm a Conservative Christian and I don't find him that way. Where did you find the statistics that justify, "Most conservative…find…repulsive…tainted…heresies"?
  
  "MOST" is a powerful word. You can justify it, can't you? Of course you can, else you wouldn't have said it…right?
  - Ken
    
    I am a conservative Christian and I DO find him offensive. He is a fraud and a fake. He is not conservative at all. The words used are accurate but do not go far enough.
  - DrBarbara
    
    I am a conservative, in-your-face, sold-out to Jesus, Christian. When people started raving about Purpose Driven Life I started to read it also. I could not get past the first chapter. Several times I scanned through it until I had the information Warren was peddling. It is not a Christian message. Matthew 7:16 says that we will know them (other Christians) by their fruits. This man's fruits are sour and rotten through and through. Yes, we are told to test the spirits of those who would try to teach us. And yes, we find that they are not teaching Truth, Jesus calls them wolves in sheep's clothing. Warren is one of those who tickle the ears of his congregation. It is rightly said that he is the Rev. Wright of the Republicans.
    - Sandy
      
      Amen to that DrBarbara
    - http://www.facebook.com/people/J-W-Majors-Majors/100000951325079 J W Majors Majors
      
      Don't worry. The United States is a reprobate Nation. The Congress,the Executive,and the courts are reprobate. Now the churches are going reprobate. Like Episcopalians and others. The young have been desensitized to truth and decency. It is going to continue to deteriorate until God brings it to a halt with devastating judgments.Avoid listening to the news when possible. It will only depress you.It could be worse. You could be headed for hell and be forced to have the Company of the reprobates forever.Count your blessings.
jasKir5984

In 2008 Mr. Warran gave Obama an open opportunity to place his lies before the voters, while in the presence of a well know religious leader. Conservative Christian values suffered during this biased arrangement. I hope Gov Romney will pass up this invitation for a more level playing field upon which to met the great deceiver. James Kirksey
Cheery1

Rick Warren "claims" to be against abortion..and was gloating and gleaming at the Obama inauguration..up on stage with The New Socialist President…smiling like a buffoon..used to go to Saddleback…and that changed my mind about this man forever..Fake…fake…fake…shame on you Rick Warren that you support this man…
- http://www.facebook.com/michael.hilton.773 Michael Hilton
  
  Gee Cheery, why don't you tell us what you really think? I don't have a 'dog in the fight' regarding Rick Warren, but I gather you don't credit him with even being a Christian, much less being able to be an impartial moderator for such an appearance of the two candidates.
  
  Cheerio, Cheery
  - azjen
    
    Cheerio, Cheery. For what it is worth, after viewing the non-partial interview between Obama & McCain, I have a gut feeling that Rick Warren is anything but he appears to be. Sorry to those who have such faith in him…but he just doesn't strike me as someone who is on the up & up.
- LouiseCA
  
  He was invited to speak at the inauguration. He prayed in Jesus' Name. Just because you disagree with him on certain matters and you don't like Obama's policies (and neither do I), does not mean you should be calling a minister of God a fake. You should not.
  - Evermyrtle
    
    Unless he is a fake. All who call themselves " Ministers of GOD" are not really "Ministers of GOD".
  - Ruth
    
    Louise, Rick Warren ended his Obama Inagural prayer " IN ASA'S Name", which is the name of Jesus Christ in the Quran ! Dr. Jack Van Impe exposed that fact along with many other Christian ministers since then. Asa is NOT the same Jesus Christ that WE as Christians follow….. And Why would Rick Warren use Asa's Name instead of Jesus' Name, If it weren't for the fact that Obama IS a Muslim ! Reserch It for yourself ????
  - Hans
    
    …..his GOD is Satan!!!
- fliteking
  
  Clarity, thank you! When you support a man you support his causes and agenda.
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FSOOH2T4QDDTXJBQDLDXMDLFNM honorary

Is he related to Elizabeth Warren (the 1/32 Chirokee Native Indian)? Judas also claimed to be one of Jesus disciples!! This paster Warren has a good job, well respect from the Christians who presume that he deserve this position..but in fact,he must be the same with Rev. Wright of Odumbo …
- UF Gator
  
  lol
azjen

I wonder how many lies Obama will tell this time around. When he talked with Rick Warren & John mcCain before the election in 2008, many of the things that he said are now being shown as false.
http://twitter.com/catsune Cat

Oh please Im not watching the imposter get up there and claim hes a Christian and all that. We all know by now hes only lying. And Warren has been teaching all kind of New Age Philosphies and Leaders in his church so wake up everybody. He sold out. Do the research before you start saying ohhhhh
- LouiseCA
  
  Do some Bible Study before you bash another Christian publicly.
  I think what Rick Warren has fallen prey to is good old fashioned Jealousy of Ministry.
- Sandy
  
  So agree Cat, he is a new ager.
Yukon36

Rick Warren is not an evangelical Christian. He is a fake. He believes in a one world government and a one world church. Listen to true born again Evangelical Christian Ministers across this land and they will critizise he and his Purpose Driven Life book and warn their congregations about not reading this book. He and his message is the type the bible teaches about in the last days.
- LouiseCA
  
  No. True "Evangelical Christian Ministers across this land" will not bash another minister by name publicly. If they disagree that strongly with Pastor Warren or any other minister, they should contact them and meet with them personally and discuss the issues and difference. To those who engage in public bashing of ministers with whom you disagree, I say "shame". Wonder if it hurts or makes breathing difficult, when they stand there pounding on their chest..
- Sandy
  
  I agree Yukon, I read a book call "deceived on purpose" and it ties him with Robert Schuller and the new age movement. I would say "caution" to anything from Rick Warren.
- EstebanCafe
  
  Again, its seems that we'll divide over anything and everything. Why can't we pull the good from Mssr Warren's writings and dismiss the rest? Where does it say that acceptance of pieces means one must swallow the whole? Take the good; leave the bad. BTW, just as we may see him as a fake, fraud, whatever–there is an equal number who find him inspired. I worry when I hear that Evangelical preachers are warning people away from everything but their own writings and interpretations of the the Bible. It would be better that said preachers weren't holding so tightly to the 'filthy lucre' they must derive from us congregants.
  - Pastor Dwayne
    
    ""ACCEPTANCEof pieces means one must swallow the whole""",,,,,,,,,,,,,A little leaven does what???
    - EstebanCafe
      
      Sir, you cannot separate truth and error? I wonder about your congregation. You would throw out the baby with the bath water? What if Msr Warren said "2+2 = 4?" Would you accept that? A bruised reed should be crushed like the smoking flax should be extinguished? Your 'take no prisoners' reminds me that most Christians shoot their own wounded (so as not to taint the rest of the congregation?) Learn to point out both good and the bad and don't be so dismissive of everyone else. I'm sure if you were as published as this other fellow you would be as attacked as he as a sell out; people would find problems with your doctrine, too. Especially on this site.
Cheryl

Proponent of Chrislam. Don't be fooled by him.
David

As I read the opinion piece above, I was at first a little taken aback by the idea that evangelical Christians were not a large enough demographic to warrant the attention. (Perhaps it's because they of all the groups mentioned, hold to many of the values and ideas of our nation's founders.) But that was all but forgotten by the comments focusing on Rick Warren.
For all those "Christians" who made accusatory statements about him: have you ever contacted him to talk with him about your perceived failures of him as a pastor/Christian? The Bible says not to bring an accusation against an elder in the church without 2-3 witnesses, so if you don't think he follows Biblical teachings… why don't you?
I've followed Rick's career for over 20 years, and while I don't agree with everything he says or does (most notably the global warming issue mentioned above), I've never been able to find Scripture that contradicts what he's said. He loves the Bible and seeks to live by it and teach it to others. Yes, he has sought to befriend Muslims, homosexuals and others considered "outsiders" or even "enemies" by most Christians, but it seems like I heard of another guy who did the same thing in order to reach them for the Kingdom of God… now Who was that… hmmm… Oh yeah! Jesus of Nazareth!
Rick's no Jesus, but has probably done more to love his enemies in an effort to share the Gospel with them than any person who has commented on this post. In this day & age, non-Christians in America are rarely going to listen to Christians' Gospel if they don't see us living it out and loving people as Jesus said. Rick doesn't accept any lifestyle or teaching that contradicts the Bible, but he loves them anyway so that he can have an opportunity to share the Gospel with them.
Perhaps those of us who are radical, right wing conservative Christians should give it a try. Politics will not save America… only Jesus can.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Mark-Spence/100000463780297 Mark Spence

He was "forced" to speak out against the Ugandan anti-gay law because of "immense" public pressure? Hmmmm! Obviously, he wasn't thinking of WWJD on this one. Could you see Jesus caving in on certain things because of immense public pressure? I think not! Christians are not suppose to be swayed by what the world wants. He who is friends with the world is at emnity with GOD. Many a martyrs went to the stake and other forms of execution because they would not compromise what is right and wrong. Obviously, Warren must be more intimidated by the gay and gay supporter bunch than he is of the God of all, who has made it clear that that type of lifestyle is an abomination to Him. Whoever it was that wrote this article claiming that Warren walks in lockstep with evangelical Christians obviously needs to do further research in what true Evangelical Christians believe. If I am not mistaken,didn't Warren take a stand against the proposition, in California that the voters were deciding to be against gay-marriage and to have marriage only between one man and woman? Doesn't sound very evangelical to me.
sandy

I believe Rick Warren is not main stream Christian or Evangelical. I believe he is more in line with "new age" type of Christianity. He is has ties to Robert Schuller who definitely leans new age. I would not listen to nor agree with most of what Rich Warren says. I go to a "bible church" and I am not in the more liberal group that you speak of. I am not really sure where are you going with this article?
http://www.facebook.com/GeraldtheHoosier Gerald H. Johnson

Reading down through the comments about Rick Warren saddens me, Are these commentators claiming to be Christians? They're statements do not reflect this! I don't know Rick Warren though I've heard of him quite often but even if I knew him and disagreed the most I could say as a Christian is: I have heard but disagree with some of his teachings if he be annointed of God to begin with somewhere along the line I feel he has drifted astray and I can no longer accept his teachings but it would not be for me to judge him rather it would be to pray for him. At the Throne of God Judgement will come not in this world.
SHIRLEY MOORE

What exactly is wrong with organizing conservative power?
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004047180339 John Adams

rick warren is DISGUSTING. He is a shill (and, at best, a willing shill) for the Devil and the new-age, emerging church. He, and his ilk, are leading MANY to eternal torment in the flames of Hell.
Hans

I wouldn't touch Saddleback Church and Rick Warren with a 10 foot pole. Warren is a false prophet !!!!
TheTruthSpeaker

To most true conservative Christians, Rick Warren is a farce. He is one of those deceived ones who the bible refers to as coming before the throne at the Judgement and saying, Lord, Lord, have we not done great and mighty works in thy name," and he will be told that he is a worker of evil and will be sent to hell.,