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mikesalman

Arizona man sent to jail for home Bible studies

A Phoenix pastor who was jailed for holding a Bible study group on his private property is now holding one behind bars.

Michael Salman is serving a 60-day sentence in Maricopa County's notorious Tent City jail for allegedly violating his probation by holding religious services on his property in violation of zoning and building codes. He was arrested July 9, after authorities charged the one-time gang member hosted Bible sessions for as many 80 people on his 4-acre property, which he tried to claim as a tax-exempt church.

"And I'm sure he'd do it all over again," attorney John Whitehead, president of the Rutherford Institute, told FoxNews.com.

In a sense, he is. Salman has assembled a Bible study group on site that has been attended by as many as 30 inmates, according to Whitehead. On Thursday, he was chosen to lead inmates in prayer for the anniversary of the Tent City jail, just before they dined on moon pies, according to a report.

Continue reading at www.foxnews.com
 
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  • Chris

    Another "Liars for Jesus " headline. He was not put in jail because of bible studies – he was put in jail because he had constructed an illegal building and was running a "Church". Using religion to ignore the laws is getting ridiculous. It would be like holding a church meeting in the middle of the freeway and then claiming "put in jail for for bible studies".

    • David

      "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and render unto God what is God's.

      The city was certainly aware of the construction of this meeting hall; they accepted his money for the construction permit and inspections. Whether he decided to use the definitely "non-agricultural" building for his purposes, or His purposes, seems to me to be an individual matter beyond the purview of the government.

      Having not seen many photos of the interior, I cannot comment exactly about whether it meets all the code compliances of emergency lighting, outward opening doors with panic hardware, fire and smoke detection, and so on. (I work in insurance loss control)

      Considering the history of the ancient church, and the growth of small group settings in people's domiciles in current times, I do have a hard time believing that this issue is as cut-and-dried as you state, plus your specious analogy of putting a church meeting on a freeway is not exactly intellectually sound.

      This sounds much more like either a zoning commission or Department of Revenue problem with a place of worship in someone's back yard. Follow the money.

    • Texan 2000

      U R correct, but the real reason does not sell. I can't for the life of me figure out why The Rutherford Institute is getting involved. Or maybe as poorly written as this piece is they may have just called him for a comment.

    • PolitiJim

      I am a far right, Christian conservative Tea Party "bitter clinger" – and Chris, I couldn't agree with you more. This has nothing to do with religious freedom at all but lawlessness.

      • Delores Hill

        The city is ultimately at fault here….they should never have approved the building permit and then changed their minds after getting their money and the man had invested his in the building…I saw this on the news and you could not see the building from the road and no cars were parked in the front on the roadway. His error was probably in putting up the cross which could specify it as a church….I can't help but wonder how much furor would have arisen had he just continued meetings inside his home…then again how many "religiously" fanatic football fans have just as many people come to "mancaves" to celebrate something they love??? If the traffic is a nuisance or there is disturbingly loud noises in the middle of a residential area, it doesn't matter who is doing it….church people or sports people, it should be handled according to the law.

        • PolitiJim

          Am I wrong that the city "changed their minds" because he didn't abide by city code agreed to as part of his permit? I didn't get that it as an arbitrary decision.

          • Bighoss

            No, you are right. Salman did himself in by illegally exceeding the terms of his permit.

    • Evermyrtle

      Laugh if you want, the last laugh will be on you. You sneer but what is going on today is of is exactly what the WORD OF GOD, said would be going on in the end days and think this is the last of HIS WORDS which were was spoken about 1,930 years and the last of it was written more than 1,950 years ago. It could have been written yesterday it is so perfect.

    • nathzane

      Chris,
      Maybe that needs to happen in NYC. Read another post that states that NY closes a street or two so Muslims can pray each day in the streets.

  • Brendajanetorres

    God takes you where you are needed….You just have to answer with Yes, I will…!

  • Evermyrtle

    We can thank our Muslim for this and he is just getting started. He ain't nowhere near done with us. Election? In a fish's eye.

    • http://twitter.com/BradNova Brad Nova

      One thing you can be sure of, Maricopa county Arizona is not a liberal place.

      Evermyrtle, you have a Muslim? Sounds like slavery to me.

      • Evermyrtle

        No, really I do not even know a Muslim, I hope but we have many of them and they are, at least most them liberals. Liberals, I believe are those who will persecute GOD'S people in these last days. I believe the persecution has begun. Do you have one and are you one??

        • philote

          Muslims are not liberals. They are ultra-conservative (as far as limits on freedoms go). Many liberals THINK they would like to follow Muslim ways and methods (sharia) but that's only because they don't understand what slavery is. Yet.

      • Bighoss

        Maricopa County is a neo-Neanderthal place, at least when considering the throwback they employ as a sheriff, Joe Arpaio. That disgraceful varmint has cost the county millions of dollars in court-awarded judgments to prisoners who have been subjected to unconstitutional treatment in his penal colony.

        • Patrick Murphy, California

          I think when your opinions makes you appear a foolish person full of prejudice, and most everyone sees you for what you are. There are precious few as it is fighting for integrity and yes, I meant actual liberties. Sheriff will lose his fight, eventually we will too, it says so in the bible, but at least until then, people like Arpaiao give people hope, what do you offer us all bighoss, besides hate for anyone who doesn't want to bow down to the traitor in chief of free thought and will, I mean after all, Obama IS only doing his job right ? Following orders, writing executive orders like a good soldier, as you seem to hold blindly to the party line also I see…..

          • Bighoss

            Your semi-literate, rambling rebuke includes quantities of baloney rivaling the daily production of that commodity in any large meat-packing plant. Joe Arpaio is a disgrace to the justice system of this country and he will lose his fight because he has consistently abused his office. He is currently under investigation by the Justice Department and I suspect they will find plenty of cmalfeasance. He gives no one any semblance of hope. He exudes the stink of egotistical arrogance. You are welcome to join his fan club, Murphy, if you really want to cast your lot with that absurd caricature of a law enforcement officer.

    • Paul Brown

      You got it right in time we will be living under an islamic ruled country. He has already said he wants a one religion country, and he thinks islam is a peace loving religion. Not in my book, not when its OK to beat your wife and kill any an all Americans on sight.

    • Betz

      What a ridiculous thing to say. He knew the penalty for violating a local zoning code and had been warned. Read up.

      • Dragon Freedom

        It is unlawful to stop the exercise of personal religious expression by ANY municipal code… YOU READ UP,,, it's called the BILL OF RIGHTS! Idiot!

      • philote

        Yes. And he's standing up for his faith, and his ability to tell others about the Lord Jesus. And he's paying the civil penalty for it. But notice he didn't fall over: he's continuing to teach others of Jesus even in prison. We should all take notice and do the same.

    • Bighoss

      If by "our Muslim" you mean the President of the United States and Commander in Chief of Her Armed Forces, the HONORABLE Barack Hussein Obama, then you have stretched your credibility well beyond the breaking point. The President
      of the United States and Commander in Chief of Her Armed Forces, the HONORABLE Barack Hussein Obama, has NOTHING to do with the implementation of local zoning regulations.

      • Michael g.

        I hope you were standing on your head when you uttered all this bilge.

      • Dragon Freedom

        There is NOTHING Honorable about the illegal alien Obama!
        And we all now know the color of your nose!

      • philote

        Nothing honorable about him. Or any current politician for that matter – form over substance; politics over people.

  • DW

    I think Chris is largely right, BUT then why do we accomodate Muslim women trying to wear headscarves when getting pictured for photo ID and other crap like that. If we are going to accomodate stuff like that when Islam is at war with the world, then let's give this guy a pass or just start bowing down to ALLAH three times a day and institute Sharia.

    • philote

      That is, not so slowly, being eliminated as well. The problem is that most places were caught off guard by those wearing tents for ID photos, because it was unknown how to handle the "free exercise" clause in these cases. The answer was simple. They can choose to do that. No problem. THAT is their RIGHT. But those who do that, cannot get photo ID, nor participate in any PRIVILEGE for which a photo ID is needed. Rights are assured. Privileges are not. Same thing as telling a motorcycle rider s/he has to take the helmet off to come into and use the bank, etc. Need to ID you for this privilege.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jerry.lofton.56 Jerry Lofton

    It appears, this is what we get for warped thinkiing and bargan basement judges.

    • Bighoss

      No, this is what we get when duly-appointed and responsible local government officials even-handedly administer laws and regulations designed to protect the public interest.

      • philote

        …and God ensures that what others intend for evil, He will use for good. Bible studies in prison – just where we need them. After all Jesus did not come to call the (self) righteous, but sinners.

  • SHARON

    Here we go again I'd like to say WHO ARE YOU? anyone that feels the right to dictate ones own right to do in their own home what they can or can't do other then harm another human being or child ect, cannot be tolerated by any of us. We must do with all our hearts with Gods help stop this insanity!!! ENOUGH!!!!!!

  • whynot

    Religious suppression….this is utter bu// $h it…..!

    • philote

      But it is totally to be expected. Christ warned us that the world would hate His followers (you know who you are) because they hate HIM.

  • tarbella

    Every time I hear about individual [s ] trying to jail or do something else to christians, I keep remembering what God said…'let them keep pouring coal on their heads.' In other words, the more they do these things, the more they wil be judged for it. Their time is coming and for many others too.

    • Bighoss

      Speaking of "coals" and other incendiary matters, the building that Salman constructed fails to meet the local FIRE CODE., according to local officials. From the article:

      "The case is about the building that is used for regular assembly does not meet construction and fire code requirements for assembly," Phoenix officials said in a statement.

      Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/05/arizona-man-sent-to-jail-for-holding-bible-studies-in-his-home/#ixzz22ooLdgYs

      If that building, as constructed, had been approved by local zoning officials for assembly-type uses and had caught fire with church members assembled therein, and if persons were killed or injured as a result, a competent tort claims attorney would likely find that the city had improperly permitted the construction and use of the building and thus could be held liable for harm to its occupants. Building and zoning laws serve important purposes. Salman was in violation of such laws and it was proper–even necessary–to prevent use of that building for purposes not authorized. This intransigent citizen is no martyr and should not be treated as such.

      • Dragon Freedom

        Show us where in LAW, government is granted the right to tax the building of structures they will then tax? That is called double taxation and is ILLEGAL in and of itself… Building Permits are a direct violation of their own law.

        • philote

          While government was ordained by God, and while God allows and often ensures the appointment of all governments (some for blessing, and some for judgement) it is man's sinful heart that causes him to do those vile things that are against God and His people (excessive taxes, wealth redistribution, deficit spending, favoritism and pandering). Render to the govt what is the govt – but remember to render to God a contrite heart, full faith in His Son, and humble submission to His will.

      • philote

        Preaching the word of God serves a much more important purpose than any zoning law. One day, fire code or zoning law or not, the earth and all the works done in the name of self righteousness will be burned up. The souls that are ready for that day will have received their pardon, from the judge of the universe – who personally suffered and died for their (and your, if you'll have Him) sins and who rose again to life, as a promise of the life that now belongs to all who put their trust wholly and solely in Him.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1075890952 Gordon McCauley

    "… or the free exercise thereof."

  • Boyd Thomas

    Our Government today is trying to do away with Christianity, but welcomes Muslims and Islam in America. More laws are past every day to silence Christians and take away their freedom of speech, but no Muslim or Islam follower is placed in jail for practicing their Shariah law beliefs. Obama recently said the Muslim's 30 days of worshiping Allah in July and August should be recognized by everyone in America, but that Christians had no right to worship God or Christ in the streets, like Muslims and Islamic followers. America's government is only going place more Christians in jail and take more Christian's rights away, as long we have an Islamic president that wants to remove Christianity from America.

    • Bighoss

      You say, "
      Obama recently said the Muslim's 30 days of worshiping Allah in July and August should be recognized by everyone in America, but that Christians had no right to worship God or Christ in the streets, like Muslims and Islamic followers."

      Kindly provide some documentation to prove that he actually said this. I wager you can not, and that you are carelessly quoting or misquoting something that you have .heard someone else say that appeals to your deeply embedded bigotry. Can you put up the goods? I await.

      • Dragon Freedom

        Open your eyes and you will see it for yourself. No he did not SAY christians had no right,,, but he did say the rest, and openly supports the supression of the rights of all other religions, just look at his commentary given to the Catholic Church over Obama Care… Why is it only Morons back Obama?
        Prove it is the cry of a preadolecent mentality…

        • Bighoss

          You, like Boyd Thomas, have failed to put up any documentation. Your mere assertion proves nothing. However, you are to be commended for acknowledging that " he did not SAY christians had no right," You thereby have denounced that part of Boyd Thomas' false and insupportable statement.

          • philote

            Logic and right conclusion do not always need acts of congress and written statements to prove them. In fact, the written statement is often the opposite of the natural conclusion derived from empirical evidence. If it walks like a duck; if it quacks like a duck… it's a duck.

      • philote

        Don't know about that, but he did set aside "National Sin Month" That I CAN prove.
        http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/06/01/presidential-proclamation-lesbian-gay-bisexual-and-transgender-pride-mon

        • Bighoss

          Uh, philote, I believe the issue under consideration has to do with the Muslim religion and Christian worship. Your injection of homosexuality into the discussion is entirely irrelevant. Stay on topic!

          • philote

            Perhaps you'd like to limit the discussion to such – but the real issue is that we have all sinned and fallen short of God and His Glory. We are all criminals and "scofflaws". By nature. By willful and willing decisions and action. Sin – whether it is to blaspheme God, deny His son, perpetuate false religions, attempt to destroy Christianity, promote and legalize sinful activities and behavior, criminalize God-honoring activities… it's all evidence of the heart of mankind in general and each of us in particular. So, I deliver to you as of first importance, what I also received – that Christ died for your sins according to the Scriptures, that He was buried and that He rose again, according to the Scriptures. And that those who take God at His Word, and believe that Christ's death was in our place, as our substitute, receive forgiveness of their sins (all of them) and become His children. And as His children, adopting His nature, we become ambassadors of the great blessings He provided through Christ. And we speak, and teach others of and from the Word of God – pointing out sin wherever it is found, and revealing how all sinners can receive forgiveness and have new life; a life in Christ.
            Thanks for listening.

  • Briguy

    I might be wrong here, and I usually would defend something like this, but it sounds like the guy had attempted to scam the government by using his private property as a tax-exempt church, and that is where he did something wrong. If he was arrested just for inviting people to his home to share the Bible, then I would be outraged and say, "Is this America?" Sounds like he was arrested for trying to skate the government for a tax exemption and was probably told he could no longer conduct any kind of religous program on his property as a result, and he did anyway.

  • southern conservative

    barack HITLER Obama the great divider.;

  • Steven Clark

    This is horrible.
    On another note, the banner at the top asks us to listen to Mr. Rushdooney. He was wrong in 1971. His philosophy ignores Jesus' words "My Kingdom is not of this world."

    • Bighoss

      Right on, Steven. Rushdoony was a deep-dyed theocratic dominionist nut job. Regrettably, he still has followers who really believe the tripe he promoted.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WRUS7H3KQEJGA6TA5U5ZNJR4PA KERRY

    Wow, what a crime! Has the country gone mad?

  • ChaliePie

    If he wants the tax-exemption for a church, then he MUST comply with all appropriate codes-PERIOD! If he is ONLY holding a Bible study for family and a few friends, he should NOT ask for a church benefit. What;s with this guy? I support Rutherford, but NOW i'm wondering if I'm wasting money..

    • Bighoss

      Rutherford lost its appeal to the Arizona Supreme Court. They picked a bad case this time.
      They should be more careful in choosing who to defend. Salman is a loser all the way.

  • Brenda E.

    Who can I call to complain or comment? People need to rise up and have more than just an opinion. Make your opinion heard in a venue that is effects change!

    • TINYTIM

      READ 2ND CHRONICLES 7:14-15

    • Bighoss

      Call your local right wing talk show crackpot. He or she will be pleased to reinforce the warped notions that infest your thinking.

  • John Munro

    pardon me but this sounds like an obama plan

  • John Munro

    for their salvation Ihope they do….
    perhaps, a book called what every anerican needs to knoow about the quran.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/QHRUML5XFH7AMSWH63TQH7F7E4 MalikTous

    'Modern Romans' is not just a music group.

  • Brendajanetorres

    Obama, the dictator, has spoken….."America is NOT a Christian Nation". He WILL eat those words!!!

    • TINYTIM

      Yes Obama he will pay royally. And not only that if God put him to be president man I feel sorry for Obama because he will and I mean WILL have to answer to the MOST HIGH for what he has done. God heard The Israelites cry and Moses was sent to lead them out of Egypt, and God will do the same for us read 2nd Chronicles 7:14 believe me it works. TRUST HIM!!

      • Bighoss

        And the resounding self-righteous voice of right-wing crackpot judgment once more contaminates this forum!

        • philote

          Jesus: I tell you, if they keep quiet, the stones themselves will cry out…

      • philote

        Christians have no reason to expect that God's dealing with His people, Israel, in the Old Testament is an indication of what He will do for us now. Context is totally different. However, take heart, He has told us that the suffering of this time is but for a short duration and that He will return to take His church home to be with Him. And like the parable of the servants – we are to occupy (remain doing what we do as ambassadors, worthy of the calling) until He returns.

        One thing to definitely do, is engage in prayer for everyone including the lawmakers so that they will have their eyes opened and receive the Son as their ransom for their sin as well.

        "1First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, 2for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time." 1 Tim 2:1-6

    • TINYTIM

      Obama is only one person with lies coming out of his ears

      • philote

        …and far from the ONLY one, too.

    • philote

      Be careful not to judge him harshly, we are all sinners, who, but for God's Son, would still be condemned in our own sin.

      "9do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God." 1 Cor 6:9-11
      I know that emotionally the loss of liberty and freedom, and the legalization of sinful practices and criminalization of speaking the truth is wearing. But we are still commanded to speak the truth in love. It's time to pray for Obama, not condemn him.
      "1First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, 2for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time." 1 Tim 2:1-6

      • Brendajanetorres

        philote….I do struggle with that, thank you….we do need our brothers and sisters to remind us once in a while. God's Blessings, Brenda

  • ck

    I would bet if he was preaching the koran…he would not be in jail!

    • Donna

      No if he were a muslim and this happened, the CAIR would be yelling so loud it would be on every news cast. Christians have not been heavy handed like this. Gee, they even close a street or two in NY so the muslims can pray every day. Doesn't this inconvience the public?
      Then on the other hand, I have not seen a picture on where he was holding the Bibe studies. I know it was 4 acres, but are the road conditions like to where he lives? Was he interfearing with hisa neighbors? Just becasue you are a Christian does not give you thew right to whatever you wish without taking others in consideration. I would think on 4 acres, he would have enough property to build a real church…OH, I forgot you cannot build a church just anywhere any more.

      • philote

        Slowly, over many decades, the ownership of personal property has been eliminated. You think you own your property? Just try not paying your taxes on it. See how fast they auction it off to someone else who will pay them their taxes.

        That's why God commanded us not to store up our treasures on earth where they decay, fall apart, are consumed, or are taken from us. Instead, store up your treasure in heaven (where your heart is, that's where your treasure is) – love the Lord God with all your heart and He'll give you the desire of your heart: Him. The only thing that is eternal and can never be taken away from you. Whether you're in your "own" home, or in prison.

    • Harald

      You said it All in one Line, And the Truth will set you Free. To ALL! GOD IS IN CONTROL!
      Let Us All Pray for OUR Country under GOD. GOD Bless America. Nov: U Can Make a Diffreins.

  • JB Hayes

    It stands to reason that when society kicks God out of schools, public places, off courthouse steps, out of everyday life, someone will also try to keep Him out of our own homes. Shame on you.

    • tinytim

      But no one can remove God from your heart

      • philote

        As the former convict, turned pastor, now incarcerated for following the commission of His savior (to make disciples of all)… is showing us in living color.

        • Bighoss

          The former convict, turned pastor, has now turned scofflaw poseur and phony martyr. One can only imagine what the varmint's next incarnation will be.

          • philote

            Thanks, as always Bighoss, for enlightening us to just what a hardened heart sounds like.

    • Bighoss

      Shame on anyone who, after reading the TRUTH about this Arizona dust-up, continues to ignorantly believe that freedom of religion is the issue there. Salman is a whining scofflaw and does not deserve the martyrdom some shallow-minded dupes are bestowing on him. It does despite to authentic martyrs to give him anywhere near the status that they have rightfully achieved.

      • philote

        Jesus, then was a "scofflaw" as well, because He taught of the Kingdom of God in the synagogues – where the Pharisees wanted only their own version (rife with their rabbinic tradition replacing God's clear Word). Paul was arrested as a "scofflaw" for teaching "The Way" (Jesus – the Way, the Truth, and the Life) in areas that held that caesar was a god and that Yahweh God was to be known only through the Law and not personally (which personal relationship Yahweh God had repeatedly told through the prophets that He desired, and one day through the Messiah, would have again). Christians in muslim countries are "scofflaws", as are those who disobey(ed) communism continued to teach and preach Christ crucified for sinners despite the consequences. Salman is in good company. This goes beyond "freedom of religion", "the constitution", "liberty" and all the other secular and political agendas. This is about the lifeblood of a Christian – to examine and learn, to proclaim and teach, the Word of God so that others may come to the waters of life and drink freely and be saved.

  • http://www.facebook.com/sillsl Linda Sills

    This nation is upside down in so many areas. Who would have ever thought we would have a socialist on the supreme court or a marxist president? They want God out of view. Is that because they are fooling themselves with their evil actions? As to the individual here, I pray he is strong enough for the adversity. He is following a way of life to righteousness and sharing it with others. May he be blessed with strength in doing what he knows is right.

  • fliteking

    We will see more of this soon.

    • Bighoss

      Probably so, since there are plenty of people who will unquestioningly believe the distorted and incomplete version produced by Fox News (i.e. Faux News) and who will get busy e-mailing it to all their equally tunnel-visioned acquaintances, who will in turn forward it to their own coteries of wing-nut true believers, until this trumped-up fable of alleged religious persecution has been read by hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of gullible sheeple who will take it as gospel. If you care about TRUTH, book-mark this article from a local Phoenix newspaper, which gives the full account of what is involved in this story and should you receive a panties-in-a-wad e-mail on this subject from your demented crazy uncle, shoot the truth back to him and pray that it might stimulate his dormant rational processes to some minimal level of sentient activity.

      http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com…

      • fliteking

        "Mr. Salman had regular gatherings of up to 80 people," the city says. "He held services twice a week and collected a tithe at the services. The building that he held services in had a dais and chairs were aligned in a pew formation. He held himself out as a being a church through the media (Harvest Christian Church) and claimed a church status for tax exemption purposes on his property."

        What a horrible terrible crime.

        How tolerant of you bighoss, aka tiny guy living in mom's cellar. delta bravo.

        • Bighoss

          If you had done any fact checking on this matter, you would know that Salman clearly violated zoning laws and that his activities had become an unwelcome nuisance to others in his residential neighborhood. I live in a city with similar zoning laws and this city, amply supplied with churches, has never had any trouble with churches following the laws that apply to where, and under what conditions, churches may construct buildings and carry out religious activities. No unconstitutional restraints are being imposed upon Salman. Your snide and silly comment about my dwelling place is ample demonstration of your impotence insofar as offering any rational and substantive rebuttal to what I have posted.

          • fliteking

            Continue finger point fool-boy.

            Funny how you made zoning laws to be such a big issue.

            It's OK for you to say you are a Christian Hater, your gay brethren do it all the time.

          • Bighoss

            My original post predicted the likely pathway of distribution of bogus information relative to the phony martyrdom of Mr. Salman. It was based on years of experience following the knee-jerk proclivity of ultraconservative ideologues for distributing large quantities of misinformation, both religious and political, without making any effort at fact checking.

            Zoning laws, in this case, WERE the issue. I did not make them the issue. Salman's freedom of religion, which was NOT the issue, was elevated to undeserved prominence by his ignorant supporters.

          • fliteking

            BigotHoss attempts to take the pressure off himself . . . poorly.

            Wow, a Christian broke zoning laws, and BigotHoss revealed his bias.

          • Bighoss

            Christians should be good citizens and obey all the laws. Being a Christian does not give one the latitude to choose which laws to obey and which to violate. There is no pressure on this Hoss and there is no bias on my part in my respect for law and my conviction that Christians should be law-abiding citizens. If you choose some other ethic, that is your problem.

    • MsMaryPoppins

      I think you are exactly right. And it isn't far off either.

      • fliteking

        Thanks.

  • Bighoss

    There is vastly more to this story than you will get from the wing nuts at Fox News. Check out this detailed account from a Phoenix news source:http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2008-01-17/news/michael-salman-wants-to-build-a-church-in-his-backyard-his-neighbors-aren-t-buying-it/

    Salman is obliged to honor the zoning laws of his county, just as other property owners are. Churches do not have immunity from such laws. His neighbors had plenty of reasons to object to his violations of the law and the courts justly punished this my-way-or-the-highway zealot, although it might be responsibly argued that no one should have to go to that particular jail, since it is operated by the despicable, tyrannical egomaniac, Joe Arpaio, now under investigation by the Justice Department.

    • fliteking

      Ahhhh, a bigoted Christian hater, no? Nice job, bet your family is proud . . . not to speak your name.

      • Bighoss

        Bet YOU could not come up with any rational defense of the unlawful activities of Salman and thus reverted to silly, non-substantive, polemically pitiful ad hominem nonsense.

        • fliteking

          BigotHoss said: "…vastly more to this story" . Overstated, no? Hoping to bring negative attention to a Christian couple, huh Hoss.

          Are those in question being denied the right to hold a bible study? Yes.

          They violated zoning laws? Likely. Big deal.

          It seems clear the local police force and politicians wish to make an example out of this Christian couple . . . One step further – - – If this were a Muslim issue they would proceed as if walking on glass and you'd be silent.

  • John J flanagan

    I applaud this man's courage. God bless him and keep him as he does the Lord's work. The faith shall prevail in the end. No judge, no government, no earthly oppression, will contain the gospel, because it is God who is directing the Great Commission.

    • Evermyrtle

      You are absolutely right. We will have to do like he is doing, stand our ground and if we have to suffer for HIM, let us to that, also. Don't give in to them. LIVE FOR JESUS CHRIST, IN WHATEVER WAY WE CAN.

  • Paul Brown

    As it says in the Bible, where more than one gather in my name, there I will be also. This is what we get when we elect a muslim idiot to be in charge and he wants to push is views off on the whole world.

    • philote

      We are also admonished to speak the truth in love. Let's lover Mr. Obama right out of the white house and into Jesus' arms!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-B-Severy/557985964 David B Severy

    Where ever two or more believers are gathered in the Name of Jesus, He is THERE with them. That is the definition of the church: Where ever two or more of Christ's own children are gathered in His name. I am often in church on the Metro buses in Baltimore and on the phone with the 700 Club prayer counselors or with my friends locally.

    The government places requirements on property owners which are unnecessary to hold church, and do not benefit the church. It is difficult for me to imagine who 80 people would be disturbing on the property in question, EXCEPT for SATAN and his demons. Too bad for them, they are toast.

    • philote

      Actually the definition of the church is those called out (of sin) to a new life in Christ. Whether gathered or not, the church is all those who belong to Christ. The PROMISE is that where two or more (the minimum number of witnesses upon which the testimony in OT times could be considered true) are gathered, He is in the midst (literally, being the center of their witness).

      I'd watch out for the 700 Club… take it to the LORD in prayer, and watch out for the government and religious organizations with their hands in your pockets as they whisper in your ear.

  • bill1776

    God bless him. He is do good where ever he may be, in jail or out.

  • smogdew

    But it's OK for hundreds of Muslims to kneel down in busy streets, face Mecca, pray &- block traffic for hours.
    This is what the Supreme Court/Obama, Islam and the ACLU gave us – a Godless country – but as God said, "retribution is Mine".

  • dntmkmecomoverther

    St. Paul plied many a soul…in chains AND in prison…not that I like how this guys is being treated…Just saying that God's call is a cure, not a burden. Hey, isn't Maricopa where Sheriff Joe is? JOE…WTH?

  • bobbiejojo

    Why is Islam so dangerous? Great little comic books like "Camel' in the tent", "The sky Lighter", Allah had no Son", " Is Allah like you"?, and others can be read at Chick publications.

  • Bighoss

    BREAKING NEWS: The Arizona Supreme Court refused to intervene in the case of the Phoenix pastor who was sentenced to 60 days in jail for holding weekly Bible study in his home in violation of the city's safety code.
    Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/arizona-supreme-court-refuses-to-intervene-in-jailed-pastors-zoning-code-case-78812/#hURYFQDZ8juxQ5GZ.99

    Read the entire article and see just how foolish anyone is to contend that Salman has been mistreated or that freedom of religion has been abused. Wake up, people!

  • js1019

    A couple of thoughts, if this were a muslim they would never have the courage to put them in jail.
    Second, why are Christians not getting involved? Voting these people out of office and uniting under the banner of freedom of Jesus.
    Jesus said if you deny me before man, I will deny you before My Father.

  • Douglas

    So it begins…."I was just following orders was what those that killed so many in Germany declared"!! So history is about to repeat itself only this time there won't be an America to come to the resque…because this time America is the New Germany…and Obama is the new Hitler.

    Where is Jan in all this…surely she can't actually think this anything but a shame by the DOJ and the White House getting back at those that dared to stand up to these bums in Washington!!

    We must Contact our Representatives in Washington and call until we can hear it across America…if it happened to this guy…you may be next!! Stop The Madness coming from Washington!!

  • Carla J

    If this same guy were Muslim country and he did this. He would be killed. That said, this country is
    suppose to be a land of free speech. Does that not include the bible? What are we turning into and is it worth it? Are we letting the Muslims win in this case by jailing people who are teaching the Bible
    to those who need it the most?

  • willy

    big arse seems to be a total Idiot that speaks off the top of his hindend

    • Bighoss

      Now that you have produced rancor, you can turn to the more challenging task of providing something of substance.

  • http://www.facebook.com/kamaut.longbabilon Kamaut Longbabilon

    Americans under threat and active prosecution for doing what God wants them to do! – The land of the Free is no longer! – God warned the Jews of attacks against them, and only a few responded and fled the areas they once lived, and the host countries were blessed with their presence and knowledge, until they too, persecuted His people. In WW2 a few thousand Jews and true Christian followers left their homes when they saw the "signs" and obeyed the call to "Get out" of the places they had inhabited. Those who did Not Listen, died by the Millions in the World's greatest mass extermination of any race of humans. Now it seems, America is fast becoming antagonistic towards those who believe and do God's work. Australia is still free from that, and will be the Last Western Country to develop such problems, according to an American Female "Prophet" (Messenger of God.) – So I suggest, see, hear, and obey… or you must suffer the consequences of ignorance.

    • Bighoss

      Well, if an American Female "Prophet" says so, it must be so! Tell us, Kamaut, where we can find this prophetess, that we may drink in more of the lofty wisdom she offers!

  • relsie30

    It is amazing how concerned the local government is for the welbeing of this guy and his converts. Why is there so little concern for those sleeping under a bridge or in the park or for that matter the many that are sleeping in abandoned buildings. Our elected leaders do not serve the majority but the minority with the mony theu use for everage to mandatewhat they do or don't want to happen. There may e more to this story,but what I read here leaves me to this conclusion.

    • Bighoss

      And where is the sympathy for the unjustly abused inmates of the primitive dungeon where Maricopa County houses inmates under inhumane conditions. "I was in prison and ye visited me not" someone said. Oh, yes, it was JESUS who said that, wasn't it?

  • Marilyn K. Smith

    Jail and ridicule in the US, prison and torture in China, executions in Egypt and Iraq and lets not forget our brothers and sisters in Iran, India and Pakistan. Christians are everywhere and wherever they go, they are persecuted and always have been–in other countries, now here, just not quite so harshly. So was our Lord persecuted. OVERCOMERS: Remember, this is a short time. Soon we will be reigning with Him as He steps to the Throne. Hold fast to the faith. Love your neighbor like He does and stay closer to His side than ever! Amen!

  • Byron

    Poeple, remember Jesus was hung on the CROSS because of what he did & said. So why should this Pastor be any different?