Rape: Separating Myth From Truth

Obviously, we need to debunk the myth that implies that, in cases of rape, the trauma to a female's body prevents any chance of pregnancy.

The second myth is a matter of semantics: There is a distinction between legitimate and illegitimate rape. No! Rape … is rape… and this despicable act is evil.

Personally, I believe when the congressman said, "if it's a legitimate rape," he was making the distinction between wanted sex verses unwanted sex.

God designed the sexual act to be a mutual expression of love between a married man and woman … to intimately communicate tenderness, endearment and devotion. In contrast, the Bible considers forced sex as a perversion of sex, an act of violence. The Word of God clearly refers to rape as "wicked." In Sodom and Gomorrah, a man named Lot said to those who were intent on rape … "Don't do this wicked thing" (Genesis 19:7 NIV).

What are other major myths that should be exposed?

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daves

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 )
- Aristophanes
  
  daves – what is your point? As usual, your posts make no sense.
  - daves
    
    It is just another example of the evil in the old testament. It sounds like God is condoning rape in this one.
    - Aristophanes
      
      As usual, you are taking Bible verses out of context and trying to twist them to your convoluted way of "thinking".
      Go back to Verse 11: " 11 I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins. I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless. 12 I will make man scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir. 13 Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the LORD Almighty, in the day of his burning anger. 14 Like a hunted gazelle, like sheep without a shepherd, each will return to his own people, each will flee to his native land."
      Also, it is a PROPHESY about Babylon. You just do not want to accept the wrath of God. Lucky for people like you, Jesus died. That simple statement right there probably has you going into convulsions.
      Really, when are you going to give up trying to use the Bible for your perverted way of "thinking"? Have you not learned yet that Christians know how to research and already know that you love to quote the Bible out of contextt?
      - Vladimir
        
        Yep, Daves famous for that.
      - Esther
        
        Vlad, but consider the ongoing conversation after the first response from Aristophanes.
      - Jeff Dixon
        
        (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
        
        They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded
        Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi,
        Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of
        Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and
        children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder.
        They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After
        they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they
        brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of
        Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across
        from Jericho.
        
        Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the
        people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the
        military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the
        women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice
        and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They
        are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all
        the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who
        are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
        
        Clearly Moses and God approves of rape of virgins.
        
        (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
        
        As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its
        people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you,
        then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse
        to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD
        your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for
        yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy
        the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
      - Aristophanes
        
        Why am I not surprise to hear from Jeff?!! Go to the New Testament and point out where rape is "approved".
        Just your statement: "Clearly Moses and God approves of rape of virgins" is a lie. Read the verse before your comment. You really are comprehension challenged aren't you? I am not going to do your research for you. I am sure you have taken this out of context just like your buddy Daves. Try going to an atheist site and post this drivel – THEY will probably believe you.
      - daves
        
        Could you please explain the real meaning of this line then? (if it is not showing approval for rape).
        
        When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
      - Aristophanes
        
        daves – where you you get this line is approving rape? Are you saying God is telling them to rape women, children, livestock and other plunder? Do you really think "enjoy the spoils" means rape and only rape? Wow, what a neanderthal!
      - daves
        
        God gave the women to these men with no regard to whether or not the women wanted to belong to the men.
        
        If the women did not want the men and the men took them anyway, how is it not rape?
      - Aristophanes
        
        So, are you saying the same thing about the children, animals and other plunder? If it were just women, I would say you have a good point. But, considering other things were included, I do not read that passage that way at all. But, that is one thing that is so wonderful about the Bible – it speaks differently to different people.
      - Esther
        
        On the other hand, Aristophanes, you are justifying the unjustifiable.
      - Aristophanes
        
        esther – on the other hand, you do not know what you are "talking" about. Instead of throwing out a one liner, how about racking your brain for some facts? At least with daves and jeff, they make comments that can be remarked on and discussed. Your one liner is nothing but a comment with no basis.
      - Esther
        
        I think Jeff and Daves are handling you quite well, actually.
      - Aristophanes
        
        I think you are not capable of attempting to "handle" me. Funny, daves and Jeff are the only ones answering my comments and being very polite and using resources instead of just coming up with one liners that have no use in this discussion. C'mon esther, join the fun!!!
      - Esther
        
        Exactly what I implied: You said "I think you are not capable of attempting to "handle" me"
      - Aristophanes
        
        You like ambiguous one liners her you go: Just what I thought. Coward.
      - Esther
        
        LOL
      - petroskhan
        
        You know, I'm sure, that you are wasting your time with Esther.
        
        She is a nitwit, a coward, and will not answer a single question regarding anything of substance.
        
        Also, despite her claims, she is NOT a Christian. She has, on numerous occasions, proven that beyond any doubt. Also, should she claim to be a mormon, you can ignore that claim as well, as she many time made statements of her stand on issues contrary to mormon doctrine. (I'm not a mormon, in case that question comes to mind. Far too sane for that)
        
        I do agree with her on one thing she said, though. Several posts back she stated, "As far as I can see the reasonable people win this argument."
        
        She's right…you've won the argument.
      - Aristophanes
        
        Thank you petroskhan – nice to know I have some support here.
      - petroskhan
        
        No problem.
        
        And you know, I thought of pointing out to those claiming Biblical support of rape a few simple facts, but realized it would be pointless. Things like:
        
        The time/setting: "Taking" a woman to be one's wife was not uncommon in that time/place. It might seem barbaric by our standards, but times change, right?
        
        Specificity: The stories held up as proof of Divine condoning of rape were most specific to a time and place, and certain peoples. NOT blanket excuses to be draped over every occurrence of forced sexual activity.
        
        Custom: Anyone looking at these passages should also read, and carefully consider, what the Bible has to say about the value that a man is, according to the Bible, to place upon his wife. She is to be a precious thing, cherished above all else, and he is to be willing to lay down his life for her.
        
        There is more that could be said, but why bother? No one who wants to find flaws will see anything but flaws. Truth is there, for those seeking it, and God will speak to those to whom HE chooses, and they will hear Him. Those who choose to be blind will not see, and will remain blind of their own volition.
        
        All we can do is pass along some information, and hope for the best.
      - Aristophanes
        
        You stated very succinctly what I am trying to get across. But, you are right: People who do not want to accept the Bible will try to find flaws where flaws do not exist. And no amount of posting is going to get through to people who do not want to see. I hope I have gotten through to someone; but, I kind of doubt it. Some people just are not open minded enough to see what God has placed before them. I guess God has not chosen them and I feel sorry for them for that reason.
        And now of course, we will hear from the ones who choose not to see and probably be called all kinds of names because of that. Oh, well, I can live with that.
      - petroskhan
        
        Same here. It actually amuses me when people get so defensive (or offensive) regarding religion. Seems to me like they're trying to prove to themselves they're right by convincing themselves you're wrong. Pretzel logic, but different strokes for different folks.
      - Aristophanes
        
        My favorite thing to do is throw out questions at people who claim to be atheist. I never get a reply to those questions; but, it is still fun. I guess I confuse them with logical questions since I find atheism (or those who claim to be atheist) very illogical. Like you say, pretzel logic.
      - petroskhan
        
        There's a lot of questions that can't be answered by atheists/evolutionists. Most of the time, they will claim something like "Science doesn't have all the answers yet, but given time…" Sure…that's scientific.
        
        I've held for years that the more science uncovers, the more it's obvious that things don't happen by themselves. To assume otherwise is deliberately blinding oneself to the truth that is right there, in plain sight.
        
        But I think there's a verse for that, isn't there?
        Jer. 5:21 "Hear now this, O foolish people, and without
        understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not."
      - Aristophanes
        
        I can't find the quote; but isn't it also in the Bible where God said, " whomsoever does not believe in me is a fool" or words to that effect? I wish I could find the quote. I do not have my Bible with me and the Bible site I have does not want to look by topic. I think it is rather sad that "atheists" are not really atheists in the true sense of the word. Most people who claim to be atheists are fighting with God. They kind of contradict themselves by claiming they do not believe in God; but, spend so much time arguing with me because I do believe in God. If they really did not believe in God, then what does it matter to them that I do? Why do they get so bent out of shape when I keep on affirming my belief in God? I have never been able to get an answer from so-called atheists.
        And as far as science goes, none of it has been proven beyond any doubt. A lot of it is theory (evolution and big bang are 2 of the big ones) and cannot be proven. I just think atheists are trading God for the false god of science. Too bad for them.
      - Esther
        
        @disqus_LObMU1h3zf:disqus: But, that is one thing that is so wonderful about the Bible – it speaks differently to different people." How can this possibly be true. What kind of world do we live in that the pseudo-Christians want to build a theocracy based upon the bible, implying biblical law, means different things to different people. It would be open season for the Muslims when they get citizenship, and many already do. That was you point to which I said you are attempting to justify "the unjustifiable." Ever tried to pass a class in college where the professor kept moving the goal posts? You couldn't win a football game that way either. As far as I can see the reasonable people win this argument. cc: @jeff_dixon:disqus @BradNova:disqus
      - Aristophanes
        
        Esther – you and your ilk just do not understand at all. Jesus is the one I follow and He is the one I believe. Jesus spoke in parables so people would think and interpret. Have you ever read a book and got something out of it that another person who read the same book did not see at all? Have you ever watched a movie and saw something in it that someone else saw differently? That happens all the time. Read the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) – each is different; but, tell basically the same story. Heck, eye witnesses to a crime see it differently.
        Just like I disagree with your assessment of the definition of "reasonable". That in itself is a very subjective word open to interpretation. Anyhow, I am not trying to "win" an argument – there is another one of your interpretations I disagree with. I am having an intelligent discussion with Jeff and daves. I do not see me changing their minds anymore than I see them changing mine. But, I am enjoying this discussion with daves and Jeff.
      - Esther
        
        I didn't know I have an ilk. Can you tell me what it is?
        
        No, Aristophenes, when it comes to sinning and eternity, I want to know exactly what I must do to enter the kingdom, no ifs, ands, or buts. You are saying it is alright for God to move the goalposts. Yeah, right, Aristophenes..
        
        Also, if all these things are so subjective, the one thing I never want to see is a Christian theocracy in my country, the U.S.A.!
      - Aristophanes
        
        Try to learn to use a dictionary. Oh, wait. Silly me – I actually thought for 1 second I was dealing with a person who knew how to use a dictionary. Get your caregiver to look it up. I am not your mommy; therefore, i am not going to do your homework for you.
        YOU are the one who is saying "it is alright for God to move the goalposts". I never said anything like that at all.
        Life is subjective, nothing is written in stone. This country was based on Christianity and did pretty good – now, it is going downhill and will eventually be socialist/communist if the slide is not stopped. But, people like you who want everything objective are incapable of seeing that and will never see it.
        If you want to know how to enter Heaven – read the Bible!! Jesus tells you unequivocably. But, unfortunately, you will not see it because you choose not to see anything Christian. I really actually feel sorry for you Esther. You are so close-minded that you cannot think for yourself. You see one doctrine and that is all you see. Really sad.
      - Esther
        
        I will ignore your personal attacks. I have always been a Christian.
        
        1. You said: "This country was based on Christianity and did pretty good – now, it is going downhill and will eventually be socialist/communist if the slide is not stopped."
        
        Question: Are you implying that I am socialist/communist?
        
        2. I meant by "Moving the goalposts" an absolute authority over an individual's life, meaning no matter what choice that individual makes the authority says "no" that is the wrong choice. (I really thought that is pretty clear… it is an oft used phrase in schools where I have taught. Even the kids understand it; considering the fact they all like football, it is a good analogy for them.)
        
        Question: Which one of the over 400 bible versions in regular use should we adopt when we adopt rule by Christianity?
      - Aristophanes
        
        I will not ignore your personal attacks. The difference between you and I is I am pretty obvious when I attack personally. You like to insinuate which I suppose makes you feel intelligent.
        If you are a Christian, why are you asking me how to get to Heaven?
        1. Answer – if that is the way you take it, that is your choice. Unlike you, I do not "imply" anything. I am not into implying something as serious as that.
        2. If you claim to be a Christian, this is rather a non-question. The 10 Commandments and what Jesus told us is basically the same in ALL versions. I am not including the versions that are paraphrasing the Bible (such as "The Message"), I am only trusting the versions that are translations. I am not even saying to rule by Christianity, I think that would not work for a lot of people. But, some of our laws are based on Christianity (murder and theft to name two).
        Also, the only absolute authority I believe in is God. And, even He gives us free will.
      - Esther
        
        Lets see:
        
        Thank you for your comments.
        
        If you will re-read my explanation of "moving the goalposts" you will see the original reference is to your implication that the bible like life is " very subjective … open to interpretation" and I understood you suggested our country should be run this way, implying a Christian theocracy. Now you say "no" it is not what you implied. Okay I am glad that is cleared up, because some Christians do advocate a theocracy and I don't want to name names.
        
        To your answer number one: Good. I hoped you did not imply such a thing.
        
        To your answer number two: That referred to my concerns that in a theocracy how would one ever know what the laws are, which bible to use with the various and abounding interpretations and so forth. Since you do not advocate a theocracy, the question is withdrawn. I have many commandments, true, and I don't want any other version from another branch.
      - Mary
        
        Murder, rape, and pillage at
        Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)
        
        This is a story about women being kidnapped to be wives. I recommend that you read the whole story, however I will pick out a few highlights for you:
        
        "So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill
        everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do,"
        they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a
        virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young
        virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at
        Shiloh in the land of Canaan,,,But there were not enough women for all of them…Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between
        Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to
        Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in
        the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out
        from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife…So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took
        part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own
        inheritance."
        It can't be clearer than that.
      - Aristophanes
        
        I never said that the Old Testament was not sometimes brutal and cruel. What I am saying is do not take it out of context. Here is verses 1-9: 1 The men of Israel had taken an oath at Mizpah: "Not one of us will give his daughter in marriage to a Benjamite." 2 The people went to Bethel, where they sat before God until evening, raising their voices and weeping bitterly. 3 "O LORD, the God of Israel," they cried, "why has this happened to Israel? Why should one tribe be missing from Israel today?" 4 Early the next day the people built an altar and presented burnt offerings and fellowship offerings. 5 Then the Israelites asked, "Who from all the tribes of Israel has failed to assemble before the LORD?" For they had taken a solemn oath that anyone who failed to assemble before the LORD at Mizpah should certainly be put to death. 6 Now the Israelites grieved for their brothers, the Benjamites. "Today one tribe is cut off from Israel," they said. 7 "How can we provide wives for those who are left, since we have taken an oath by the LORD not to give them any of our daughters in marriage?" 8 Then they asked, "Which one of the tribes of Israel failed to assemble before the LORD at Mizpah?" They discovered that no one from Jabesh Gilead had come to the camp for the assembly. 9 For when they counted the people, they found that none of the people of Jabesh Gilead were there.
        What I am saying, which is obvious once you read the ENTIRE Chapter, is God does have a reason for everything He does and He does not need anyone's approval for what he does or does not do. And, that seems to be the problem a lot of you have.
        We could go on like this forever. You are not going to change my mind no matter what you try to come up with. God bless you.
      - Mary
        
        I did read the entire chapter. I only included parts in order to save space. But notice that I was the one who suggested you read the entire story.
        
        Basically your argument is "might makes right" Immoral acts are ok as long as they are sanctioned by God. In that case where are we going to stop? We can pretty much justify anyone doing anything to anyone in the name of God.
        
        You seem awfully defensive considering that I only posted bible verses. I didn't say that you have to change your mind for little o'l me. I am contributing to a converation that was already started.
        
        The thing is that if you are going to talk about your religious views and try to convince others that you are right then you have to come up with better answers than "God said it is ok to (fill in the blank)" Instead of actual discourse on the matter.
        
        It reminds me that when I was a child my sister and I had a way of settling disputes. It was the "that's that" rule. Whoever said it first was considered in the right. It went like this: "This is what I want and that's that!" Well that worked out fine for a child's argument. But it is not the way adullts settle disputes.
        
        When you attack me all you are doing is saying that you can't answer the question.
      - Aristophanes
        
        I do not see where in my reply was any of the stuff you commented on. You are inferring things that are not there. No where did I say immoral acts were sanctioned by God, you inferred it by the section of the Bible you decided to quote. Also, your definition of defensive escapes me. I was merely pointing out that you did not include all the verses relating to your quote and that does make a difference in the interpretation. Seems to me you are the one getting defensive. Also, read my last sentence. Like I said, you are not going to convince me and I am not going to convince you.
        Also, extremely defensive on your part – Where do you get I am "attacking" you? I posted a reply to your comment and nowhere did I "attack" you. According to you – you started out by attacking me. And you still are attacking me. I have no problem with you not believing – that is between you and God. But, do not attack me because you do not understand what is written in the Bible. I will be the first to say I do not totally understand the Bible; but, I am willing to study it until the day I die. And, the more I read and study the Bible, the more I do understand. But, if you want an explanation in one post, good luck with that.
      - Mary
        
        The reason why I said that you were defensive was because you asked for the bible verses condoning rape and then when I provided them you declared the subject off limits. I see this with Christians all the time. They don't want to answer the hard questions.
        Don't ask a question and then get upset when people respond.
      - Aristophanes
        
        How did I declare the topic off limits? I just quoted the first 9 verses of the passage in the Bible that you were trying to use to justify your position. The Bible does not "condone" rape. That is my belief and my opinion. Now, I am sure you could find passages that support your belief that it does condone rape. That is not a hard question, that is a matter of opinion. I, personally, think the Old Testament can be very cruel and brutal. But, I also think man (and woman) brought a lot of it upon themselves. And Christians live by the New Testament, Jews live by the Old Testament. Christians read and study the Old Testament and learn from it.
        Like I also said in my previous post – you are not going to get simple answers.
      - Mary
        
        I don't expect simple answers. What I do expect is honesty. If you deny that the bible condones rape, then you are being dishonest with yourself and others. It isn't a matter of interpretation. You can believe what you want but it doesn't change the truth.
        
        Yes some things changed with the new testament. But hiding behind that fact does not explain how a good God can command his followers to commit evil acts, including rape, slavery, murder and human sacrifice. And yes, I said human sacrifice.
        
        'So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave him victory.
        He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area near Minnith – twenty
        towns – and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus Israel subdued the Ammonites.
        When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his daughter – his only child – ran out
        to meet him, playing on a tambourine and dancing for joy. When he saw her, he
        tore his clothes in anguish. "My daughter!" he cried out. "My heart is
        breaking! What a tragedy that you came out to greet me. For I have made a vow
        to the LORD and cannot take it back." And she said, "Father, you have made a
        promise to the LORD. You must do to me what you have promised, for the LORD has
        given you a great victory over your enemies, the Ammonites. But first let me go
        up and roam in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will
        die a virgin." "You may go," Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two
        months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would
        never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and
        she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young Israelite
        women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah's
        daughter." (Judges 11:29-40 NLT)
        
        I don't expect you to have all the answers. It would be nice though for you to acknowledge that this is a major theological problem with the bible.
        
        Why does all this matter? Because the attitides towards women that our dear friend John Adams exibits COME STRAIGHT FROM THE BIBLE.
        
        By the way, it appears to me that the story of Sodom and Gommarah only condemns man on man rape.
      - Aristophanes
        
        I do not have to justify my beliefs or explain those same beliefs to you. I do not believe the Bible condones rape. I believe that God used these passages as teaching tools to the Israelites and the pagans. If you want to interpret it as condoning rape, that is your choice. But, do not try to impugn my beliefs or question my honesty because I do not share your belief. Reply, if you like. As far as I am concerned, this is done. There is no way we are going to agree and, frankly, I am getting bored. if you want to look at this as a "win" for you, knock yourself out. I do not care.
      - Mary
        
        "You are not going to change my mind no matter what you try to come up with. "
        
        That is declaring the topic off-limits. I don't see how I could take it any other way.
        
        If you want to see more verses on rape, see http://www.godhatesrapevictims.com
      - Aristophanes
        
        You are very narrow minded. Stating that you are not going to change my mind does not, in any shape or form, declare the topic off limits. I am open to intellectual discussion. It means what it states: you are not going to change my mind. If that is your purpose in these discussions, then, yeah, you would consider it off limits. As far as your website goes, no matter how much it claims to not be interpreting the Bible, it is interpreting the Bible. No where in those quotes do I see God condoning rape or hating rape victims. I see him saying that if the woman does not call for help, then SHE is condoning it, if it is rape. You just proved my point with this website that it is all a matter of interpretation. And, before anyone gets all bent out of shape by that statement – why do you think there are people who spend a lifetime studying the Bible? Because it is so explicit and cannot be misunderstood or interpreted to suit individual needs?
      - Jeff Dixon
        
        What if the woman was knocked unconscious and could not call out for help? Or was gagged? What if the rapist was holding a knife to her throat and told her if she cried out she would be killed?
      - Esther
        
        I said the errancy of the bible is in question and thus, the biblical god.
      - Esther
        
        I think your website should say "the biblical god hates rape victims" We always make that distinction on this forum because the bible is rampant with contradictions and it comes up a lot whether there is errancy vs. inerrancy. It's not God fault. God does not hate rape victims. Satan hates rape victims and loves to see them abused. Our God is good not satanic and the errors in the bible are not a real description of him but mistakes of human error in the many translations or just basic misunderstanding by many scribes involved.
      - Mary
        
        I am sorry I forgot to include the entire story. Here it is:
        
        ""At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon
        Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including
        Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a
        vow to the LORD. He said, "If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will
        give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I
        return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."
        
        "So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and
        the LORD gave him victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to
        an area near Minnith – twenty towns – and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus
        Israel subdued the Ammonites. When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his
        daughter – his only child – ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine and
        dancing for joy. When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish. "My
        daughter!" he cried out. "My heart is breaking! What a tragedy that you came
        out to greet me. For I have made a vow to the LORD and cannot take it back."
        And she said, "Father, you have made a promise to the LORD. You must do to me
        what you have promised, for the LORD has given you a great victory over your
        enemies, the Ammonites. But first let me go up and roam in the hills and weep
        with my friends for two months, because I will die a virgin." "You may go,"
        Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two months. She and her friends went
        into the hills and wept because she would never have children. When she
        returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin. So it has
        become a custom in Israel for young Israelite women to go away for four days
        each year to lament the fate of Jephthah's daughter." (Judges 11:29-40
        NLT)
        Can you tell me what this poor girl did to deserve her fate?
      - petroskhan
        
        Can you tell me what reward she will receive in God's kingdom for being so faithful that she willingly died to keep a promise made to God?
      - Aristophanes
        
        Are you kidding? "This poor girl" did nothing but be the first one out of the door. What you are NOT seeing is that Jephthah made a PROMISE to God and SHE realized that you do not break a promise to God!!! Would you have said the same thing if it had been a slave that was first out the door? She saids in her first line of her reply why she had to die, ""Father, you have made a promise to the LORD." This is one passage of the Bible I think is pretty self explanatory.
      - bigbadude
        
        ya well its ok to lie for alah too! get a life
      - Mary
        
        Sticks and stones…Anyone you don't like is a Muslim, or a communist or a socialist or a Satanist..or whatever. I quote from YOUR BIBLE so how can you say I am a liar?
        It doesn't matter because you are a bigoted fool.
      - Mary
        
        "You are not going to change my mind no matter what you try to come up with."
        That is declaring the topic off-limits.
        If you are interested in more verses see http://www.godhatesrapevictims.com
      - Aristophanes
        
        See reply above.
      - Jeff Dixon
        
        There can be no doubt that Jesus embraced the Old Testament scriptures as nothing less than God's word to man. When Christ quoted the Old Testament He referred to it as God's word and indicated that God was speaking through the authors in what was written.
        
        When rebuking the Pharisees for their hypocrisy Jesus quoted from the book of Exodus referring to it as "the commandment of God" and what "God said".
      - Esther
        
        I am sure glad to hear from Jeff.
      - http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/QHRUML5XFH7AMSWH63TQH7F7E4 MalikTous
        
        Sounds like you're reading the section posted by Alla the War God of Persia, not YHWH – er, aren't they supposed to be the same god?!?!
      - bigbadude
        
        Muslims got nerve using freedom of America to speak badly about the reason America is free. In a muslim country your eather a muslim slave 2ond class or dead!
        You would have people acuse Christian of blasphemy and tried for beheading or just have a mob attack their church and beat them for the same things you do here.
        Anyone who reads the news sees what goes on in the muslim world!
      - daves
        
        I am not trying to twist anything, merely giving my opinion.
        
        There is a lot of evil in the Old Testament and Christians should distance themselves from it.
        
        On the other hand, the lessons and messages Jesus gave us are wonderful and should be embraced and followed as much as humanly possible.
    - Evermyrtle
      
      What are you talking about? The Bible condoning rape? GOD will not hold you unacccountable for your evil and you are piling evil upon evil upon………….
      - daves
        
        I said sounds like.
        
        This line here "For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off.:"
        
        Who is talking there?
      - Jeff Dixon
        
        Yep, the bible condones rape.
        
        Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)
        
        So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.
        
        The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."
        
        Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.
    - Dennis
      
      Evil? And who are you to question YAHWEH?? His will shall be done.Whether you like it or not or agree.As was pointed out this is a prophesy to befall those who are evil,wicked,arrogant and prideful.
      - Mary
        
        It always makes me laugh when people equate disagreeing with the bible with disagreeing with God, rather than actually addressing the issue. Like it or not, the bible is a mixed bag. No one has ever explained to me why, if in fact the bible is inerrant, God would change his mind. Jesus challenged the old archaic injustices inflicted in the name of God. He defended the woman caught in adultry against being stoned as just one example. He also changed the "eye for an eye" law to "love thy neighbor."
        Many Christians try to find all sorts of rationalizations to deny the problems with the bible rather than face up to the fact that the bible is not perfect and should not be treated as such.
      - bigbadude
        
        Look why dont' you just try to be a christian instead of protesting Jesus?I can tell you this many people try to do things the wrong way Jesus is real if you want to find out.
        begin an investagation of your own. If you want the true God maybe the peacful muslims will chop of you head if you realize whats his name is …
        First google the resurection of Jesus and make a goal when you find what proves to be right to devote your self. Just listen and investagate it!
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diKEZb9_M8Q
      - Jeff Dixon
        
        Why would you assume that someone should "just" try to be a Christian, when the bible is filled with idiotic and contradictory events? ,
      - bigbadude
        
        Well, anyone can put down anything that does not require inteligence.
        If you spent five miniutes examining the resurection you would see that there is plent of evidence for it. Do you enjoy the freedom and equality you hold? first think of why other people in the world want to come here? We have justice if you enter a court room you must swear to tell the truth the whole truth and noting but the truth so help you God. We are compasionate people. We have laws to protect.Who want to go to a muslim country anyone can acuse anyone of blasphemythen they are sent to jail to be beheaded to spend a long sentence. The elder musilms control the police there is no justice. We want the whole truth and seek justice. You have the most freedom of any county in the past. Before the 1700 the norm was monarchs. In this rare situation we were able to live in this country. This was a test people did not believe it could last this long. We have the greatest economy that has ever existed. See we believe in God he gives us the freedom the government protects it. If we loose the belief of the people then.. The government gets to choose who holds freedom and who does not. if this is the case they can take any time they wish it becomes more like a communist state. We had no problems until people stoped telling others about Jesus.
        Jesus Loves you and wants a relationship with you.
      - Jeff Dixon
        
        It is obvious you have not spent five minutes examining anything. People are not required to swear on the bible. Court scenes in American movies, television, and books typically show people swearing an oath to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Usually they swear an oath "to God" and with a hand on the Bible. Such scenes are so common that most people seem to assume that it's required, but it's not. You have a right to just "affirm" that you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. No gods, Bibles, or anything else religious need to be involved.
        
        What other absurdities do you have?
      - Aristophanes
        
        Jeff – years ago, people in courtrooms did swear on the Bible. When America started the political correctness crap is when it stopped
      - Mary
        
        "The government gets to choose who holds freedom and who does not. if this is the case they can take any time they wish it becomes more like a communist state. We had no problems until people stoped telling others about Jesus."
        
        Are you kidding me? You obviously have not read the Constitution. Freedom isn't just for some self-righteous Christian elite. It is for EVERYONE.
        I doubt if you even know what communism IS. Is your definition that anyone who doesn't agree with everything in the Bible is a communist?
        Don't throw out terms without even knowing what they mean. You lose all credibilty when you do that.
      - bigbadude
        
        Here before you expect to learn anything you must admit you do not know everything. Imagine if you went to a college and had the aditude you knew everything. Everyone was brainless wonder if you would find what you wanted to know? Its called pride. Until you release it it may be had to learn.
      - Mary
        
        Funny it seems to me that Christians are the ones who act like they know everything. Whenever anyone asks you a legitamate question you have no answer exept that you are right.
        But then what can I expect from someone who thinks there should be a "sin tax" on homosexuals.
        I don't hold out any hope for a rational conversation with you. However maybe someone else will see this and it will give them food for thought.
      - Jeff Dixon
        
        Good luck with that
      - Esther
        
        We try constantly, Mary, it is important to get them to focus on the issues.
      - Aristophanes
        
        Jeff – The Bible kind of mirrors life, doesn't it? I do not agree with the "idiotic" comment; but I do agree with contradictory events. Humans are contradictory and the Bible is about God dealing with humans. Wait. Maybe, I do agree with the idiotic since humans can be awfully idiotic, too.
      - Mary
        
        By the way, I am not protesting Jesus. I think he was actually a pretty cool guy.
      - bigbadude
        
        http://www.answersingenesis.org/
      - Jeff Dixon
        
        In what way with Jesus leading the charge during Revelation to send people to hell for eternal torment does that make him a "pretty cool guy"?
      - Mary
        
        I don't believe everything in the NT as representing Jesus' actual teachings. The church only included Revelations to provide a nice ending and further their political aims. I consider the book to be either the rantings of a mad man or else symbolic of events taking place at that time. Since early Christians believed that the end was near some scholars think that the number 666 was a covert reference to the Emporer Nero. In that case Revelation can be seen as basically an elaborate revenge fantasy in response to his reign of terror.
        
        As far as hell is concerned, I don't believe in it simply because no one deserves eternal torment. Also the concept of hell has never been a part of the OT so it is clearly a Christian invention.
        
        The reason I think Jesus was cool is because he stood up to the religous bullies of his day and encouraged people to think for themselves. Too bad most Christians miss that point. He also added some humanity to the harshness of the OT.
      - daves
        
        I don't question God, just the old testament.
      - bigbadude
        
        http://youtu.be/DqarwCKiIe8
      - Jeff Dixon
        
        Which is supposedly also from the same "perfect" god.
      - Jeff Dixon
        
        Who is anyone to question mythical deities? A rational person, perhaps?
      - Aristophanes
        
        Jeff – your arguments were pretty intelligent until you got off on your "mythical deities" kick. I personally do not care if you believe in God; but, do NOT denigrate mine and other people's belief in God. Just because you do not have the ability to see what is obvous to Christians does not mean He does not exist. It just means you are not capable of seeing Him. That is your loss not mine. When the end comes, if I am right, I will be in Heaven. If, by some remote chance I am wrong, what do I lose? Absolutely nothing. If you are wrong, what do you lose? An eternity. Your choice.
- fliteking
  
  daves often masquerades as a Christian, the post above clearly indicates otherwise.
  
  Liberals have real issues concerning the Truith and Faith.
  
  They rely on the same only when there is an immediate benefit to the individual.
  - Esther
    
    Bur daves makes a very good point, so does Jeff.
  - Jeff Dixon
    
    And Christians refuse to accept reality.
    - fliteking
      
      The perfect storm , Jeff (the FAMOUS Conservative) , Esther and Daves all backing each other . Niiiiiice !
      - Jeff Dixon
        
        In what way I am backing Daves or Esther? I disagree with Daves on Obama and Sharia law. I disagree with Esther that Mormons know the way to heaven. Sorry, that was a swing and a miss.
    - Aristophanes
      
      I CHOOSE to accept reality, just not YOUR so-called reality. Awfully narrow minded statement made by you, don't you think?
  - Mary
    
    Actually liberals have a better grasp of the truth in the bible. They don't pretend that the bible is perfect and they don't deny the theological and moral difficulties with it.
    - fliteking
      
      OK! Thanks Mary, keep pushing on, it has to come true at some point.
    - Aristophanes
      
      Thanks, Mary. You just proved my point that liberals are narrow minded and biased.
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-Patton/592034163 Andrew Patton
  
  For their sins, Babylon would be handed over to the Medo-Persian alliance, just as Judah was handed over to Babylon for her sins. Yet, in both cases the attacker is not innocent of sin themselves, though they function as an agent of God's wrath. The point? War is hell, but it's a consequence of sin to be handed over to your enemies.
John Adams

MUCH of what is called rape these days is in no way truly rape. In MOST "rapes" the woman is at least partially at fault. Whether is is due to the way she dresses, her behavior, the places she chooses to go, the time of day she does something. a poor choice of companion, etc. While none of these things excuses the man they also make the woman "at fault".
- Jeff Dixon
  
  You are a buffoon if that is truly what you believe.
- Aristophanes
  
  Are you kidding me??!!! Would you like to go back to medieval day where women did nothing but stay at home? Do you condone Sharia law? Do you really think a woman is partially "at fault" when a knife is held to them? You are really unbelievable!!
  - John Adams
    
    I believe that if women truly lived according to the Bible by obeying God's commands and living as God says that they should, few if any rapes would occur.
    - Aristophanes
      
      And that explains why nuns get raped. Trying to blame the women for the actions of the men is just plain wrong!! I do not care if a woman is pulling a Lady Godiva, if she says no, it means NO not "let me think about it or go ahead and even if I am trying to claw your eyes out I asked for it." That is such medieval and chauvinistic thinking!
      - John Adams
        
        Just how many nuns have been raped within the last 10 years? What were they doing when it happened.
        Also, I don't believe that nuns are living according to God's laws found in the Bible.
      - Aristophanes
        
        Middle East!! You are so close-minded and narrow minded I do not know why I bother.
        Two definitions of rape that coincide with this article:
        1. the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
        2. any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.
        Nowhere does the definition of rape say: "But, we will not punish the man because the woman was not living according to the Bible." So, blaming the woman like the muslims do is okay even thought the women in muslim countries are covered from head to toe.
        Also, there are many definitions of how to live according to the Bible.
      - John Adams
        
        I've never said that the man is innocent. However, the woman usually does contribute to the crime by her dress, her behavior, her location, her choice of companion, etc. By her ungodly dress, behavior, location, companion she has in effect already said "yes".
      - Jeff Dixon
        
        According to the U.S. Department of Justice: (All statistics are taken from:
        Violenceagainst Women, Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Dept. of Justice,
        1994.)
        
        One of every four rapes take place in a public area or in a parking garage.
        How dare these women be in public areas or parking garages.
      - John Adams
        
        First of all, I never believe government reports.
        However, to address your post, do those statistics report how the woman was dressed, her behavior, where she had come from or was going (a bar, for example), who she was with, what time of day, etc.?
      - Jeff Dixon
        
        Since I have already shown that nuns often get raped, which you assumed incorrectly did not occur much, and they wear clothing which could hardly be discribed as revealing, it shows that women DO get raped even when their dress is modest. You are working off a flawed and warped opinion about rape.
      - John Adams
        
        There is nothing warped about my opinion of rape. However, you DO have a warped opinion of morality.
      - Jeff Dixon
        
        Anyone who argues that women bring rape on themselves is warped, sick and twisted.
      - John Adams
        
        Well then, your argument is with God, not with me, for He tells us not to defraud one another.
      - Jeff Dixon
        
        No, my argument is with a warped individual who blames women for being attacked, not an imaginary deity.
      - Aristophanes
        
        You really are very narrow-minded. I would also guess you are single since, by your posts, the Virgin Mary would be raped. I just pray you are in the minority.
      - John Adams
        
        Mary was not raped. I can't imagine why you went there.
      - Aristophanes
        
        You really take things literally. I thought my post explained it; but, let me see if I can break it down. According to the way you think, Mary did not live by Biblical standards. While Joseph thought Mary had cheated on him, according to you, if he had raped her it would have been partially her fault. See where I am going? And, how do you know if anyone is living by Biblical standards. There are plenty of people who LOOK like they are okay; but, who knows what goes on in private. Good example: Ted Bundy. A lot of people who knew him were shocked when they found out he was a serial killer.
      - John Adams
        
        Why do you accuse Mary of not living by Biblical standards? What standard do you believe she broke? No, I don't see at all where you are going.
        Looking like one is living by Biblical standards and in reality not doing so is an intirely different matter.
        Most prove that they are not living by Biblical standards by they way they dress, the way they behave, the things they say, the places they go, the people they keep company with, etc.
      - Aristophanes
        
        Really, John? In your Bible, was Mary married to Joseph before pregnancy with Jesus? Is it Biblical standards to be pregnant with a child before marriage? We know what happened now; but, Joseph did not until he was visited by an angel. Up to that point, Mary was a "fallen woman". Why do I have to explain what is written in the Bible to you when you claim that women should be living by Biblical standards? Sounds to me like you are a little confused.
      - John Adams
        
        The FACT remains, Mary did not sin in this matter. The fact that Joseph misunderstood doesn't make Mary sinful.
      - Aristophanes
        
        Make up your mind. Are you talking about perception (which is what I think since the Bible can be interpreted multiple ways) or are you taliking about the way GOD views us? How do you know that that woman who is dressing in a suggestive way is not right with GOD? Your PERCEPTION does not necessarily coincide with God. That is what I am trying to get through to you.
      - John Adams
        
        NO woman who is suggestively dressed is right with God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      - Aristophanes
        
        How would you know? Do you have a direct line to God? Does He tell you everything He knows?
        Sorry, John, I do not think that God is that closed minded. I like to think that God is an understanding God. Anyhow, my suggestively dressed would be a short shirt or showing a little cleavage. You would probably think that is wrong; but, I see no problem with that. But, even dressed in a state of almost undress still does not condone rape. If a man has that little self-control, then maybe HE should be the one confined to a one room apartment.
        We might as well agree to disagree. You are not going to change my mind and I am not going to change yours. I just pray for your benefit that any woman you know is "right with God" does not get raped! That would just totally destroy your world.
      - Jeff Dixon
        
        Because in the story god impregnates someone who is not his wife.
      - John Adams
        
        You are wicked!!
      - Jeff Dixon
        
        I am honest. I am sure you consider that to be a terrible thing.
      - Aristophanes
        
        Jeff – I actually thought you were being kind of polite and decent for a change. You just had to kill that, didn't you? I will not bother with details since I have responded to your "story god" and "sky fairy" numerous times and debunked your god, science. Suffice it to say I am truly disappointed.
      - Jeff Dixon
        
        What is not polite about what I stated? Mary is impregnated by god in the story and she is not his wife. I am sorry if the actual details of the story upset you, but that is the story.
      - Aristophanes
        
        Jeff – I was responding in reference to "story god". The rest of your post was true.
      - Vladimir
        
        The girl may put herself in harm's way, but that is not mitigation for the man who rapes her.
        
        We have gone far from God's law that sexual relations outside of marriage are forbidden. Had the man obeyed this law, he could not be honestly accused of rape.
      - John Adams
        
        I agree on both points. However, neither is the woman innocent.
      - Jeff Dixon
        
        It's not just little kids who are endangered by Catholic priests — Catholic nuns also have reason to fear. The Vatican has finally admitted that nuns all around the world have been sexually abused and even raped by priests. Africa has had the most problems, but many other countries have been involved as well, including India, Ireland, Italy, the Philippines and the United States.
        Confidential Vatican reports obtained by the National Catholic Reporter, a weekly magazine in the US, have revealed that members of the Catholic clergy have been exploiting their financial and spiritual authority to gain sexual favours from nuns, particularly those from the Third World who are more likely to be culturally conditioned to be subservient to men.
        
        The reports, some of which are recent and some of which have been in circulation for at least seven years, said that such priests had demanded sex in exchange for favours, such as certification to work in a given diocese.
        
        In extreme instances, the priests had made nuns pregnant and then encouraged them to have abortions.
        
        The US article was based on five documents, which senior women from religious orders and priests have presented to the Vatican over the past decade. They describe a particularly bad situation in Africa. In a continent devastated by Aids, nuns, along with early adolescent girls, are perceived by some as safe sexual targets. The reports said that the church authorities had done little to tackle the problem.
        
        The Vatican reports cited countless cases of nuns forced to have sex with priests. Some were obliged to take the pill, others became pregnant and were encouraged to have abortions. In one case in which an African sister was forced to have an abortion, she died during the operation and her aggressor led the funeral mass. Another case involved 29 sisters from the same congregation who all became pregnant to priests in the diocese.
      - John Adams
        
        As I said in an earlier post, I don't believe nuns are living according to God's commands, and neither are priests. I believe that the life-style the "church" forces upon them promotes the scenario you have presented. In this case the rc church is also at fault.
      - Jeff Dixon
        
        You just indicated that you believed few nuns get raped. Your view is wrong and warped, I might add.
      - daves
        
        I am very glad to be agreeing with you on this one. Mr. Adams is trying to bring us back to the dark ages.
    - daves
      
      Is this what you mean when you say women should obey God's commands?
      
      "Women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says." (1 Corinthians 14:34)
      
      "But if … evidences of virginity are not found for the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones…" (Deuteronomy 22:20,21)
      
      "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)
      
      "A shameless woman shall be counted as a dog; but she that is shamefaced will fear the Lord." (Eccles.26:25)
      
      "A silent and loving woman is a gift of the Lord: and there is nothing so much worth as a mind well instructed. A shamefaced and faithful woman is a double grace, and her continent mind cannot be valued." (Eccles. 26:14-15)
      - John Adams
        
        That is a very incomplete list.
      - Mary
        
        Oh lord you are a real woman-hater aren't you? Is it lonely up there on your pedistal? I bet you are a you are a real hit with the ladies!
      - John Adams
        
        I don't hate women; some of my best friends are women. Actually, the ladies DO love me.
      - Mary
        
        And yet, they are at fault if they get raped. Tell me this if you were raped by a man would it be fair to assume that you deserved it simply because your jeans were tight or you were not wearing a shirt? Or because you were not a good enough Christian?
        Those ladies who love you must be masochists.
      - John Adams
        
        What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Yes. Men who dress immodestly, etc. would have to share some of the guilt for their own rape.
      - Mary
        
        One more thing for you to consider. Rape isn't about sex. It is about POWER AND CONTROL. It is about hatred of women. Normal men do not rape. I could do a strip-tease in front of a normal man and there is not a thing I could do that could make him rape me.
      - John Adams
        
        Rape may be about multiple things but it most certainly IS about sex.
        If you did do a strip-tease in front of a man and he raped you, you WOULD be, in part, responsible and guilty for your own rape.
  - Esther
    
    Excellent comment Aristophanes
    - Aristophanes
      
      Thank you, Esther.
      - Esther
        
        My pleasure.
- http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/QHRUML5XFH7AMSWH63TQH7F7E4 MalikTous
  
  WTF? All those factors might be good reasons for a man to take a rest room break and flog his monkey, NOT excuses to rape a woman.
http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/QHRUML5XFH7AMSWH63TQH7F7E4 MalikTous

Legitimate sex involves a consensual act between adults. Rape is a nonconsensual sex act or a sex act involving abuse of a minor – or animal – by the rapist, and is NEVER 'legitimate'. Health of mother issues and rape victims are the only cases where public funding should have any part in abortions; those who wish to abort for birth control (except Plan B) or such frivolties as gender selection should pay their own way! Keep government out of both health care and the abortion issue!
Saltporkdoc

As a former police officer who investigated many rapes and then a Domestic Violence Offenders Councelor, I definately believe that the crime of rape should be reclassified as a crime of violence and not a sex crime. If it were truely a sex crime, why do 20 yr old burglers rape 80 yr old widows?
Rape is the ultimate crime to establish power and control over the victim.
- Jeff Dixon
  
  What would you consider to actually be a sex crime?
  - Saltporkdoc
    
    Honestly hadn't thought about that in depth but certain acts such as indecent exposure, window peeping,etc would still be appropriate for the sexual designation.
  - Dennis
    
    You can easily research this.Rape has never been classified a sex act rather it is an act or power,control and violence as Saltporkdoc said.It is a mans way of ultimate control in domination and as a way to humiliate others.Saying this doesnt make in any less a crime or worse or better.
    - Jeff Dixon
      
      What do you mean it has never been classified a a sex act?
      
      Here is information from the state of New York
      
      Sexual Offenses in New York State Penal Law
      
      New York State Penal Code Article 130 – Sex OffencesSection
      130.00 Sex offenses; definitions of terms.
      130.05 Sex offenses; lack of consent.
      130.10 Sex offenses; limitations; defenses.
      130.16 Sex offenses; corroboration.
      130.20 Sexual misconduct.
      130.25 Rape in the third degree.
      130.30 Rape in the second degree.
      130.35 Rape in the first degree.
      
      http://www.slc.edu/offices-services/security/assault/Penal_Law.html
  - bigbadude
    
    Abortion!
http://www.facebook.com/people/Donald-Dunnam/100000852495087 Donald Dunnam

The claim of rape should be suspect like any crime. Where is the proof? When a man is accused of rape even if he did not do it, he is looked at from then on as detestable, yet women who accuse men even though it is shown that the claim is false rarely suffer any retribution for their actions.

Proverbs 23:27:
For a whore is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit.
28 She also lieth in wait as for a prey, and increaseth the transgressors among men.
- Jeff Dixon
  
  You do realize that women who accuse men of rape are often medically tested and DNA samples of the man is often present? Yes, some women do lie, but that is hardly the norm.
- Aristophanes
  
  You don't know anything, do you. Do you know how many cases of rape go unreported because of the way the woman is treated by the police and hospitals? Also, I do not know of too many women who want to get in front of an audience (judge, jury, people in courtroom) and recount the degrading details of a rape. Because of people like you, who want a video of the rape, I am sure many women do not bother to report it.
  - http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-Patton/592034163 Andrew Patton
    
    Yes, many cases go unreported, and this too is the fault of women who falsely accuse men of rape, for they make it much harder to believe women who really were raped. They remain silent for fear of not being believed.
    - Aristophanes
      
      I do agree that might have something to do with women not reporting it. But, I do believe a lot of women do not report rape just because of what they would have to go through just to prove they were raped. Unfortunately, some women just do not have the fortitude to go through all the questions and skeptism they would be subjected to.
bigbadude

And the muslims actually publically beat a woman for being raped! They actually see women as like slaves! Guess who is a big supporter of Muslims Clintons! Obama! They hate Christians!
Rape is no about sex its about making somone feel like dirt! when will we see we allow
these low life politicians to ahve power over us since we lost our christian values! Think about your freedom and equality. What countries besides ones who make Jesus Christ lord and savior have freedom and Equality? look the declaration of independence. how many days are in a week?
How many days was creation in the bible? in a court room we have freedom because you must swear on a bible to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God! The laws are to protect the inocent to allow gangs to acuse who ever and be head them!
Jesus said to love God with all your heart soul mind and strength and to Love your neihhbor as your self! this give freedom!
- Mary
  
  In the OT women were to be put to death ( Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB):
  
  "If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is
  betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate
  of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out
  for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his
  neighbors wife."
  
  Or forced to marry their rapist: Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
  
  "If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman
  who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he
  must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed
  to divorce her.".
  
  That means that Christian "values" are closer to the Muslim religion than you want to admit In fact not long ago a girl in a Muslim country commited suicide as a result of being forced to marry her attacker.
  
  Freedom and equality in this country is based on separation of church and state, not the Christian religion. It is a representative government, not a theocracy. Every time religion has been in charge of a government there have been dire consqences. Quite frankly a lot of what has been said on here only confirms the wisdom of that policy.
  - bigbadude
    
    In the koran it is ok to kill anyone who doubts alah. Jesus said the greatest commandment is to Love God with all your heart soul mind and strength. Jesus never killed anyone.
    
    http://youtu.be/Fpp37iJogFI
    Peter stood in a crowd and spoke of the resurection of Christ that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption, This Jesus hadth God raised up whereof we all arewhitnesses, Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having recieved of the father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hadth shed forth this which ye now see and hear. For David is not assended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The lord said unto my lord, Sit thou on my right hand, until I make thee my foot stool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye crucified, both Lord and christ. Now when they heard this they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, men brethern what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them Repent and be baptized every one of youin the name of Jesus christfor the remission of sins and ye shall recieve the the holy ghost. there were 3000 people none of them deneyed that Jesus was raised again. the Church started that day. Koran Sera 4 verse 157 six hundred years later mohomid claimed Jesus did not die on the cross God deneyed him as his son? so from a historical perspective which would be more accurate?
    - Mary
      
      I agree that Jesus never killed anyone. That was not my point. My point is that these barbaric laws are part of the bible that you claim is inerrant. The Muslims inherited these ideas from the Judeo-Christian tradition.
      Jesus was a reformer. He stood up against the ultra religious bullies of his time. And yet here we are 2000 years later and we still have people gunning for religious oppression.
      All this scripture quoting is just an attempt to not address the issue.
  - bigbadude
    
    Balony It does not say if the woman is raped beat her publicly. It does not say if somone is a nonchristian treat as a second class or enslave or kill. We do not honor a moon God that requires hatred. Why would you be willing to rocket attack people of a different belief?
    If I were in your country would I be allowed to build a Church to worship God? Would you send billions to us if we were impoverished?Did Mohomid do miracles? Does he have thousands of whitness to testify he has overcome the grave? All we see are things like a cartoonist drew a picture of Alah so he was murdered. Can't you see that to love your neihbor is better then to hehead him? You can dig out stories out of the bible you nore I understand and try hard to cause as much confusion as possible but Im not buying it.
    I will say that Jesus does not a respector of persons. He does not care where you are from
    if you honor him he will love you and help you.
    - Mary
      
      I am puzzled as to why you seem to think that I am a Muslim, or that I live in a Muslim country. You obviously have not read what I have written. I don't agree with Muslim ideas of oppression towards others.
      By the way I did not say anything against loving thy neighbor and I do not think anyone should be beheaded. Where did you get that idea?
      
      You also apparently have not read the bible verses that I quoted. No they were not saying that women should be beaten publicly. THEY SAID THEY SHOULD BE KILLED.
      - Mary
        
        One more thing. I do respect others beliefs and normally do not engage with them. However when they want the government to legislate their religious beliefs then I do speak up. When they use their religion to abuse others then I speak up. If more people actually practiced the love that Jesus taught then there would be no reason for it to be an issue.
      - bigbadude
        
        Christians do not worship a moon god. for starters he honor honesty not lying.
        We do not honor those we imprision. You seam politically correct! I think this muslim belief is the opisite of christianity. I do not under stand why the bible sayes these things but I will not speculate. Every thing this belief if for i am aganist!
        they conquor by decibt and knot heads like colin powell. They enslaved 1 million people in the 1700's they were white Europeans. I do not simpathise with the invaders in our country. I look to Jesus for help perhaps you should too!
      - Mary
        
        You make no sense. Either you don't know english well or you have some disconnect in your mind that I can't figure out. Either way I see no point in continuing this coversation.
      - bigbadude
        
        balony! you have a disconect.
      - Mary
        
        So Muslims had slaves, we had slaves too. Does that make them worse than us? Plus slavery was an accepted practice among many culture's, not just the Muslims. The bible supports slavery. Go look it up.
        
        Of course slavery is wrong and should be abolished. But to claim the moral high road is just plain hypocritical and dishonest.
      - bigbadude
        
        No the bible times if you were ging bankrupt you could become a slave to repay you debt not the same thing.
      - bigbadude
        
        http://www.livingwaters.com/
      - Mary
        
        Ok you want a hard copy?
        
        "However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who
        live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners,
        including those who have been born in your land. YOU MAY TREAT THEM AS YOUR PROPERTY, PASSING THEM ON TO YOUR CHILDREN AS A PERMANENT INHERITANCE. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must
        never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)"
        Yes they had indentured servants, but they were Hebrews. Foriegners were out of luck.
      - bigbadude
        
        http://www.answersingenesis.org/
      - Mary
        
        Apparently my post was lost so I will repeat. Yes they had indentured servants. But they also enslaved foreignors that were never allowed their freedom.
        
        However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who
        live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners,
        including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your
        property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may
        treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must
        never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
        
        If you are going to argue for your faith then you need to read your bible. It seems like I know more than you.:
      - bigbadude
        
        muslims qwere the only ones and you seem like a musim tring to create controversy to get converts if you join a muslim sect you are gone! they consider killers as honorable people.
      - bigbadude
        
        if you think christianity is like being a muslim i totaly disagree.
      - Mary
        
        Christianity, as practiced by many conservatives, oppress women just the way Muslims do. The difference is the degree of oppression. I am not saying that all Christians oppress women. But it is folly to ignore what is in the OT because history can and does repeat itself.
        I do have respect for those who practice the teachings of Jesus. But the most vocal Christians tend to be the ones who want to divide everybody and make issues out of people's personal lives. You may not like the way I live but you don't have the right to make laws against my living the way that I choose. That is what many Muslims believe. So if you want a taste of theocracy then go live in a Muslim country and see how you like it!
        As far as Muslims here, there is no "invasion". Most do not agree with violence any more than every Christian does. And attacking Obama and saying that he is a muslim just because of his ethnicity is deplorable and racist. HE KILLED BIN LADEN! How much more clear can it get?
        BTW, if you expect others to get what you are saying you need to learn more english. You sound practically illiterate.
Mary

Is there some reason why my posts were removed?
bigbadude

beware muslims trying to lie to make muslim converts!
bigbadude

Exactly! sex is not the issue it a sick person that wants to demean and dominate some fraile.