Romney’s Mormonism and the GOP Faithful

It's too early to know whether Mitt Romney will realize his dream of becoming the first Mormon president, but he has already made history by achieving a new pluralism in the Republican Party and encouraging a more inclusive focus for the religious right.

I saw that change first hand as a featured speaker at a Battleground States Talkers Tour event in Cleveland last Thursday night. The boisterous, overflow crowd of 1,700 included a prominent portion of evangelical Christians who nonetheless cheered lustily at every mention of a Mormon named Romney, a Catholic named Paul Ryan, and the Jewish nominee for U.S. Senate in Ohio: Josh Mandel, state treasurer, Marine Corps officer, and Iraq War veteran. In conversation and during the book signing afterward, I met Latino Catholics, black Baptists, Eastern Orthodox believers of Serbian heritage, Irish-American cops, a smattering of Mormons, Seventh-day Adventists, and dozens of observant Jews.

Had Democratic partisans or pundits from the mainstream media attended this event, they would have found it jarringly incongruent with their image of the Republican base as bigoted, benighted, and born again. Contrary to common contentions that Christian conservatism promotes intolerance and a narrow-minded insistence on biblical literalism, the Romney campaign has assembled a coalition of truly impressive theological diversity.

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Evermyrtle

Even though we have not had a Mormon president we had a Catholic and discovered that he was not what most Christians would ever agree that he was a Christian. If his actions were those of a Catholic I cannot agree that the Catholic is a Christian religion. As I have said so many times to say you are a Christian simple does not make you a Christian. It takes certain standards that you live which make you a Christin, after of course, you accept JESUS CHRIST AS THE SON OF GOD AND YOUR SAVIOR. These standards all come from GOD"S WORD. We are none perfect but we all strive toward that goal, a goal which we never reach, but if we do not strive to reach that goal we cannot be what GOD expects form us. because like this we accept the making of errors against HIS WORD.

Because of the things that I have read about the Mormon religion, I have little hope that he is a Christian.
- Vladimir
  
  Evermyrtle, if your only standard for identifying someone as Christian is his acceptance of "JESUS CHRIST AS THE SON OF GOD AND YOUR SAVIOR", I have some great news for you. Mitt Romney is a Christian for he has done that.
  
  My standards are a little higher because in addition to acceptance of Jesus Christ as the Son of God and our Savior, I look for someone who always remembers Jesus Christ and keeps His commandments. Mitt Romney passes on all points.
  
  You don't need hope anymore that Romney is a Christian because now you KNOW.
  - Evermyrtle
    
    From the Mormon ideal man, King Joseph Smith:
    
    God Himself was once as we are now and is an exalted man…..That is a secret….we have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea. He was once a man like us.
    
    God and man are the same species with God simply being further advanced in exaltation God is not eternal. Matter is eternal. The norm of God is one God amonst and infiltrate Pantheon of 'gods existing in infinite universes.
    - Evermyrtle
      
      I copied the above from the a Mormon site, who does not want the truth told?? I copied more than that, that I might post.
      - Esther
        
        Vladimir's right Myrtle… That is an anti-mormon site where you got that ridiculous quote .. try going to lds.org
      - daves
        
        Is it true that Mormons do not believe Mary was a virgin?
      - Esther
        
        I don't know if I am exception to the rule but really have no opinion about her, and, in 14 years of going to Sunday school I have never heard anything mentioned about her, ever.
        
        Same is true for a lot of ridiculous stuff you hear about us on this site and everywhere actually. That is why mormon.org was developed by the church for peope with such questions; there is a site where you may ask a question and someone will get back to you with the official church position. You can also access the site as I told Myrtle through the lds.org portal which is the main site of the church.
        
        A famous LDS scientist made it clear, and I live by it: "You don't have to believe anything that is not true." ~Henry Eyring (he is on wikipedia, his son is Henry B. Eyring, an elder in the church, a physicist and former Stanford CA business school professor)
      - Vladimir
        
        Nope
      - Bighoss
        
        It IS true that Mormons believe that God had actual physical sexual intercourse with Mary in the same way that men and women today have actual physical sexual intercourse. The "God" od Mormonism is much more akin to the gods of the Greeks and Romans than to the God of the Bible.
      - Vladimir
        
        Sorry, Bighoss. You can parade your sexual hangups in front of us, but that is not Mormon doctrine. Read the account in Luke 1:35. "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."
        
        Mary "was carried away in the Spirit", was "overshadowed" by the Holy Ghost, and the conception which took place "by the power of the Holy Ghost" resulted in the bringing forth in the flesh of the literal and personal Son of God the Father.
        
        That's our doctrine and no personal opinions by anyone, can change that.
        Doesn't sound like the gods of the Greeks and Romans to me.
      - Bighoss
        
        I gotcha doctrine right HEAH, from documented Mormon sources, Vlad. Just so you will not have any way to put out your usual smoke and mirrors Mormonite bogus apologetics, I will unload the whole thing on you and the forum. Get ready; here it comes:
        
        <<>>
        
        Without any question, this docrtine has been taught by Mormon leaders of the highest rank.
        
        http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/changech7.htm#179
        
        Had enough, Vlad?
      - Bighoss
        
        Don't know why this thing got so garbled. Trying again:
        <<>>
        
        If THIS doesn't work, just go to the link.
      - Vladimir
        
        Makes perfect sense to me, Bighoss. But none of this is doctrine.
        
        Mormon doctrine is contained in the four standard works and other revelations from God through His prophets and formally accepted by the church. All else is personal opinion. Fun to mine by folks like you looking to discredit the church, but nevertheless not doctrine.
    - Vladimir
      
      Evermyrtle, you said, "From the Mormon ideal man, King Joseph Smith"
      
      From that snarky quote, I'd say you aren't reading anything published by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
- Washington22
  
  Evermyrtle, I have read and admired your comments for a long time, but right now I have to speak up. All of this Christian critism gets me crazy and is inexplicable when we face the truths before us. Our election isn't coming down to what religion and how it is defined……………it's coming down to who will lead us out of the mess we are in…………for that, there is only one person and it is Mitt Romney. Luckily, our constitution didn't REQUIRE any one religion. My feeling is that as long as there isn't a MULSIM in the WH, we are in line with our constitution. I seriously think, after a lot of prayer, that Mitt is God's choice for us right now. We'll have to continue to pray and see how it all plays out, but I have no doubt that Mitt is a Godly man. Everything about how he lives his life says so. I don't like calling Catholics or Mormons non-christians. God will decide what kind of a person we are by how we have lived our lives, NOT other Christians wagging their fingers……………..Blessings to you and yours.
Winston

God have mercy on America and its errant ways.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1357090716 Jerry Morgan

No man is perfect! A message for those who hunt and may find some small reason to not vote for Romney, Take heed!

“When the ship is sinking,

A non flushing toilet on board

Is of little concern.”

– Jerry Morgan

It's time to remove the Muslim President we have now! Anyone who thinks he is a Christian has not been paying attention!
- Winston
  
  Unfortunately, what American voters did to Jimmy Carter is not done again to Barack Hussein Obama to unseat him, Obama will have not only a second term to further destroy the Constitution, Bill of Rights, implement Sharia Law, and place American authority under the United Nations… he will find a way to become a socialist dictator and continue without any future elections to unseat him. America is INTO a cultural war now, and if We the People do not PUSH BACK now, we just may have another civil war in this nation and we will be destroyed from within.
  - Bighoss
    
    Are you off your meds or what? Good grief! Is there no limit to what you wackadoodles will believe that just ain't so?
    - Vladimir
      
      Care to comment on your Honorable Barack H. Obama's motives in denying help to embattled men trying to protect our ambassador? You are his apologist on this site. Go ahead and enlighten us. Why shouldn't we consider him a feckless coward?
      - daves
        
        US
        military leaders ruled out sending in forces during the attack on an
        American consulate in Libya last month because of a lack of reliable
        intelligence, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said Thursday.
        
        Although forces were on alert and ready to launch an operation if
        needed, the US military commander for Africa, General Carter Ham, the
        chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Martin Dempsey, and
        Panetta all decided against any intervention as they had no clear
        picture of events unfolding in Benghazi, he said.
        
        “There’s a basic principle here, and the basic principle is that you
        don’t deploy forces into harm’s way without knowing what’s going on,
        without having some real-time information about what’s taking place,”
        Panetta told a news conference.
        
        “And as a result of not having that kind of information, the
        commander who’s …in that area, General Ham, General Dempsey and I felt
        very strongly that we could not put forces at risk in that situation.”
      - Vladimir
        
        So Barack H. Obama sat a watched for six hours while four men held off attackers. I'll Barack was relieved when they finally died because the suspense was killing him.
        
        Obama didn't even bring reinforcements FORWARD let alone deploy them. The US has combat assets that can deploy into ambushes and defeat the enemy. We bombed Libya for 10 months, but couldn't even buzz the attackers.
        
        If he was so concerned about losing more soldiers, send in armed drones. An enemy that couldn't take a compound defended by 4 men for 5 hours isn't going to stick around when real estate starts going up.
        
        I was stationed in Vicenza with SETAF. Those warriors there would have taken them out without breaking a sweat and they are the backup. There are marines on ships which get the first call for situations like this and you don't mess with them.
        
        No, BHO is a deceitful, feckless coward who lets brave men die for highly suspicious reasons.
      - daves
        
        I just saw on the news today that there was a rescue team deployed and protecting the embassy.
      - Vladimir
        
        No rescue team was deployed, daves. There will be congressional investigations that will subpena folks on the ground that are currently muzzled by the Obama State Department. The truth will out and show Obama for the feckless, deceitful coward he is. Ms. Clinton's career is over, too. She must love Obama now.
      - daves
        
        This is the article I read.
        
        http://www.talkingproud.us/MilitaryNews/MilitaryNews.html
        
        During the Benghazi assault, a US rescue team was promptly flown to Benghazi. It had to sit at the airport for 45 minutes waiting for the Libyans to transport them to the scene. So much for the movies. I am very surprised by this report. I would have expected our rescue team to arrive with its own ground transportation. What the hell is going on? They fly to Benghazi and have to hitch a ride? This is rotten leadership at the top so far as I am concerned. Our military and civilian-military leadership at the top are sadly lacking, in my opinion. (102512)
      - Vladimir
        
        I read the same news article. But what is "promptly", an hour, four hours, ten hours? And as you said, what kind of a rescue doesn't have transportation assets? Can't wait for the Congressional hearings.
        
        This is bigger than Watergate. Nobody was abandoned to die in Watergate.
    - Esther
      
      google: list of obama's lies
      
      REMEMBER BENGHAZI when you pull that lever!
John Adams

As a Christian, I don't believe that either major party candidate is someone for whom I can vote. They are both big-government guys, they both have supported government health-care, they have both supported abortion, they have both supported queer "marriage". I will not be voting for either of them. I have chosen to vote for Virgil Goode of the Constitution party. He appears to be a true believer and the platform of the party is one Christians can support.
- Paula
  
  I can hear your vote getting flushed down the toilet. While you may feel good about that for five minutes, you may be living in this country under a dictator for longer than you like because of that. You've done this country no good. Thanks, Comrade!
  - John Adams
    
    My responsibility as as Christian is NOT to elect a president. My responsibility is to obey God. I shall be doing that to the best of my ability on Nov. 6. I shall NOT vote for the lesser of two evils. My Bible tells me to abstain from all appearance of evil.
    - Vladimir
      
      So you will only elect a perfect candidate? If all good people thought as you do, we would have the most evil men in office. Real good reasoning there, John Adams.
      - John Adams
        
        There are no perfect candidates, but there are candidates better than either of the major party candidates.
    - Esther
      
      Just remember sir, once gone, the Republic is no more.
      - John Adams
        
        The republic is already gone.
      - Esther
        
        I just don't know what to think of you, sir. I think you are in the wrong church for one. But I do have to remember what Mom used to say, "If only everyone was Catholic…" so I hesitate. On what basis do you say "The republic is already gone," if you will please?
      - John Adams
        
        Our Constitution has been ignored and misinterpreted sooooo much that we no longer have the republic it established.
      - Esther
        
        Surely there will be some measure of resurgence given the close call we have with the current admin? I never worried about it before, now I am obsessed with it, as many of my family, friends and acquaintances.
      - John Adams
        
        I think that both major party candidates will continue to grow the federal government. Obviously, romney would do it at a slower pace than obama, but unless we get a strict constitutionalist in office we will continue to lose freedoms.
      - Vladimir
        
        We still have the republic the constitution established, but you are right in that corrupt jurists and politicians have done a job on her. We must reverse the effects and that means voting for less than perfect people who will place righteous over their socialist agenda.
      - John Adams
        
        I have no confidence romney would do that. He has supported government health care, abortion, queer marriage, etc. While he says that he would do at least some of that differently now, we have no assurance that would be the case. He hasn't based his "change of heart" on his faith or any other solid foundation.
    - aceituna
      
      We are personally to abstain from evil, that is to live our life in the manner that God intended for us to live. Sometimes we have hard choices to make, such as comes with our elections. We need to study and weigh the consequences of our vote if the one we vote for wins. I much prefer the consequences of my vote for Romney to the consequences if Obama wins. God gives us the government we deserve. I will choose the one whose agenda is closest to what I want, not a third party candidate which is a vote thrown away, or a non vote, because the consequences of an Obama win are definitely not the consequences that is best for our nation.
      - John Adams
        
        I do not believe that voting for a third party candidate who is a true believer and honors God and His Holy Word, the Bible, is a "thrown away" vote.
        I think that way too many Christians think that we have to win this election for God. While, in reality, we need to trust God to do what will bring Him the most honor and glory. Our obedience is a major step in this direction.
Steve03

Does Romney relfect the new pluralism of the Republican Party, or its old racism, or its even older greed?
- Bighoss
  
  Romney reflects the plastic, morphing, etch-a-sketching, flip-flopping opportunistic amorality of someone who is willing to say almost anything to get his devious self elected.
  - Vladimir
    
    You are wearing out those adjectives, Bighoss. We've heard them from you
    
    before–several times.
    - Bighoss
      
      But they don't seem to have penetrated through your dense skull so as to be sensibly assimilated by whatever rational faculties might still be struggling for life there. Thus, repetition is necessary in your case. Expect even more.
      - Vladimir
        
        Instead of repetition about Romney, how about a few excuses for Obama. You seem to be totally blind to what the "Honorable" B.H. Obama has done and is doing to this country. Incompetence or worse in the execution of foreign affairs is dogging your guy. You are this site's Obama apologist, so do your job!
        
        It's been weeks since Benghazi and your beloved president is still employing slow roll deceit. Who refused repeated calls for help and who told ready help to "stand down". AND WHY DID OBAMA DO THAT??? What about "the public's RIGHT to know" that the liberal media screams except when their guy is in office.
        
        I'll bet Hillary Clinton is furious that her career is now on the rocks thanks to Obama.
      - Bighoss
        
        "Repetition about Romney" is not necessary. He is so prolific in the inane things he says that he provides a continuous delivery of new material for necessary critical analysis.
      - Vladimir
        
        Sounds like what Romney says is over your head, Bighoss, like a strong economy which means jobs and prosperity, debt reduction so we have a future, decisive action as commander-in-chief when American lives are at stake, a strong military so our president never has to bow to anyone, preservation of the best healthcare delivery system in the world. Had enough? Your guy just wasn't ready for prime time and 3 years 9 months has proven it.
  - Esther
    
    'Still in first grade little pony?
- Esther
  
  yawn… we need rest from the Obama contingency
  - Bighoss
    
    The word you intend, is "contingent," not "contingency." Look them up; The English language is the greatest language of all time. It should be used correctly.
    - Vladimir
      
      Says the person who never makes a typo.
      - Bighoss
        
        We are not talking about a "typo" here, Vlad. She chose the WRONG WORD. That is NOT a typo; it is an incorrect usage. Study up on your own vocabulary. It is evident that you need help also.
      - Vladimir
        
        The only help I need from you is an explanation of your guy Barack H. Obama's decision to deny help to Americans fighting for their lives for over 5 hours! You've rushed to Obama's aid in the past, defending him at every turn, Why the silence now? Did he go too far this time even for you?
      - Esther
        
        And the event you speak of is just the tip of the iceberg to come… It is a ramping up of BHO's promise of the 57 states of Islam, his apologies, his commitment to sharia law of those whom are his real authorities, which indeed turns out NOT TO BE the American People. They (his friends, our enemies) are licking their chops for the property of this country… their plan is working. And as usual, as she stood by her man in the Lewinsky scandal, so is Hil standing by her president BHO, same facade. Her commitment made in college coming true as well: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17388372/ns/politics-decision_08/t/reading-hillary-rodhams-hidden-thesis/#.UJUPRMXA_4o (accessed 110312) though she had planned on being dictator… er… the president. (Note that her college paper, once available online, is now under lock and key)
      - Bighoss
        
        Yawn-n.n. Another sblithering outburst of old stale wingnut mythology and fantasy.
      - Vladimir
        
        Well, if it is, "old stale wingnut mythology and fantasy" as you say, Bighoss, why can't you debunk it?
      - Bighoss
        
        I and many others have repeatedly de-bunked it, but you and your fellow wackadoodles simply resist the truth when it is put in front of you. In your case, I would expect nothing other than that, since you have gullibly absorbed the zany mythologies and fantasies of Mormonism and refuse to accept documentation of the sordid history and rank heresies of that cult. Anyone who accepts that kind of junk theology is not to be trusted with the facts on any subject.
      - Esther
        
        OWEbama's real platform "57 states of Islam, his apologies, his commitment to sharia law "
      - Esther
        
        Thanks Vladimir, have a look at my response to little pony. : )
    - Esther
      
      IF you are right, I really think the English language made a mistake… I learned to use root words to make big words in the fifth grade… so this MUST be an exception. I look forward to learning new things everyday. Now, let's see:
      
      I have a degree in philosophy, little pony, but here I find a definition that is "for the people," on wikipedia, quote:
      
      In philosophy and logic, contingency is the status of propositions that are neither true under every possible valuation(i.e. tautologies) nor false under every possible valuation (i.e. contradictions). A contingent proposition is neither necessarily true nor necessarily false. end quote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingency_(philosophy) accessed 110212
      
      Sound like Obama to me, little pony. Therefore, I stand by my statement.
      
      "Gotcha" ~ Sarah Momma Bear Palin
      - Bighoss
        
        Might sound like Obama to you, but clearly that use is not what you intended in your original post. Nice try to bail yourself out, but it doesn't cut the mustard. Your comment obviously was directed to Steve, and was maintaining that we need a rest from such ideas as he and others, in his contingent, of similar views are putting forth.
      - Esther
        
        Now you expose yourself as not being able to read. All along we assumed you coulg.
      - Esther
        
        Oh yes it was, idiot. Among your other deficiencies, you can't read either!
Bighoss

It is not that these evangelical right wingers have overcome any negative views against Jews, Mormons, or evangelical Catholics. It is simply that their rancorous dislike of the President is so rabid as to trump their usual suspicion or disdain for these or other groups. Their lusty cheers reflect their current prevailing bias. I suspect that a good proportion of them believe the President to be a Muslim and doubt that he holds valid citizenship.
- Vladimir
  
  Ya really think so, Bighoss? Like duh.
  - Bighoss
    
    "Like duh"?? Is that the best you can do, Vlad? That kind of impotent response would be unworthy of a 5th grader in a schoolyard argument.
    - Vladimir
      
      I answered on the level of your post, Bighoss. Didn't want to tax you too much.
- Esther
  
  OBAMA ISN'T WORKING. ANYBODY BUT OBAMA 2012 AND BEYOND!